Whats the point in playing a pure DPS class?

[Vortx]

Exactly. Whats the point in doing one thing when you can do that one thing (in some cases better than the pure dps) while doing something else?

 

except, you can't.

 

you're just bad and you're biased, and think that sorcs /BH's get 100 talent points. The fact is, if you spec DPS, your heals are crap, if you spec heals, your DPS is crap. and other classes will still outdmg you.

[romir]

What advantage is this?

 

Are you talking about the defensive bonuses provided by cover? Do you even know how that works?

 

He probably means he can't leap up to the sniper to collect his free kill.

 

Immunity to leap and grapple is an underrated perk of cover, second to not being interruptable.

[malevs]

If a heal specced AC is doing more damage than you, you are doing it wrong.

[nubzz]

What advantage is this?

 

Are you talking about the defensive bonuses provided by cover? Do you even know how that works?

 

I assume he is talking about how we can quickly roll to cover somewhere and get out of someone's reach momentarily. There is one place in voidstar I like to go so I can drop the screen and if someone gets on me I can roll to cover some 10 feet away or so. Just throws them a little sometimes.

[Jestunhi]

Pure dps classes SHOULD NOT be doing more damage then classes that can heal. DPS skill trees should all, ideally, do roughly equivalent damage. Regardless of AC's. When choosing an ac it should come down to aesthetic appeal and playstyle.

 

This.

 

It's quite simple. My Parakeet build Powertech uses tank stance, and his DPS is much lower than a build with 31 pyro because I would have to spend loads of points improving my dps stance and then not use it.

 

So if a DPS spec Powertech uses the tank stance they lose out a lot of procs, resets, etc.

 

With Jugg I think it's even harder with the tank stance being got via the tank tree so you have to spec into tanking to get it. And again, many of their skill points are invested in their DPS stances if they are DPS spec.

 

 

It's a complete fantasy that a hybrid does the DPS of a DPS class and the healing of a healing class. You can choose to do both worse or one well.

[romir]

except, you can't.

 

you're just bad and you're biased, and think that sorcs /BH's get 100 talent points. The fact is, if you spec DPS, your heals are crap, if you spec heals, your DPS is crap. and other classes will still outdmg you.

 

I agree with what your saying but a hybrid sorc is better than you're letting on for damage and healing ability. But they are the exception and not the rule.

Edited January 25, 2012 by romir

[Xenthum]

Hybrid taxing is a terrible idea. Play pure because you like the playstyle of a pure. I like to be able to respec or hybridize, so I play Sage, Operative, Juggernaught. Now when they hit 50 (one has) and my guild says "Damn, we need another healer/tank/dps." I can say "Sup?" to any of those statements.

[thrashpower]

short answer no.

long answer:

 

snipers and marauders have their place in well organized groups when their group buffs are properly utilized. Still that well organized group would probably equally benefit from the offhealing from an operative, sorc or merc.

 

the problem lies with expertise scaling twice as much for healers, and the fact that there is no healing stat to separate healing output from a true healer and or a dps-specced healer.

[Jestunhi]

the problem lies with expertise scaling twice as much for healers, and the fact that there is no healing stat to separate healing output from a true healer and or a dps-specced healer.

 

This is a potential issue.

 

A tank / dps has to choose between defense, shield & absorb or crit, power & surge whereas healers use the same stats as dps.

[PulseXXX]

The issue I have is why am I playing a pure dps class with next to no utility when I could be putting up the same numbers with more utility and either tank or heal at the same time.

 

And that's where you are confused. You can not put up similar numbers if you are specced as a tank. I 'can' spec DPS, but when I do, I lose all of that utility I had as a tank. Tanks and healers that spec for DPS are paper and quickly die in PvP.

 

I suspect that this is by design, so that the Tank/Healer ACs are effective in PvE for more than just as a Tank/Healer.

[Verrell]

except, you can't.

 

you're just bad and you're biased, and think that sorcs /BH's get 100 talent points. The fact is, if you spec DPS, your heals are crap, if you spec heals, your DPS is crap. and other classes will still outdmg you.

 

If you think someone's being biased, you need to stop posting. I'm stating a question I'm concerned about, and you're lashing out. So yeah, troll all you want, I won't be responding to you.

[thrashpower]

And that's where you are confused. You can not put up similar numbers if you are specced as a tank. I 'can' spec DPS, but when I do, I lose all of that utility I had as a tank. Tanks and healers that spec for DPS are paper and quickly die in PvP.

 

I suspect that this is by design, so that the Tank/Healer ACs are effective in PvE for more than just as a Tank/Healer.

you don't need tankspec to taunt or guard and you can swap stances in combat. I find pure-tanking spec to be overkill in pvp, and tank just fine with my rage-jugg.

[Jestunhi]

If you think someone's being biased, you need to stop posting. I'm stating a question I'm concerned about, and you're lashing out. So yeah, troll all you want, I won't be responding to you.

 

You're incorrect then.

 

A hybrid like a parakeet build Powertech will not do the same dps as a mara of equal skill or have the defensive stats (or survivability) of an equal skill tank spec jugg.

 

:edit: @ Above - you *do* need to be in tank stance to guard and while you can switch stances in combat some classes (trooper / bh) have a 1.5sec cast time on the stances.

 

 

But you can taunt without tank stance, if you want to be a big target while DPS spec that is.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Seriasx]

And that's where you are confused. You can not put up similar numbers if you are specced as a tank. I 'can' spec DPS, but when I do, I lose all of that utility I had as a tank. Tanks and healers that spec for DPS are paper and quickly die in PvP.

 

I suspect that this is by design, so that the Tank/Healer ACs are effective in PvE for more than just as a Tank/Healer.

 

So basically every single sniper, gunslinger, marauder and sentinel should reroll to another class so they can do the same dmg but have added benefits of utility?

 

Thats pretty much what everyone has been saying is the problem all along.

[Jestunhi]

So basically every single sniper, gunslinger, marauder and sentinel should reroll to another class so they can do the same dmg but have added benefits of utility?

 

Thats pretty much what everyone has been saying is the problem all along.

 

If they want to play a class with more utility, yes.

 

If they want to play a class with heals, yes.

 

If they want to DPS, NO.

 

Why did they not roll a utility-heavy healer class in the first place? Did they just pick a random class with the intention of whining on the forum until it's made into their dream class shaped by these threads?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Jestunhi

[VoidAngel]

Pure dps classes SHOULD NOT be doing more damage then classes that can heal. DPS skill trees should all, ideally, do roughly equivalent damage. Regardless of AC's. When choosing an ac it should come down to aesthetic appeal and playstyle.

 

That's certainly one design philosophy, and one that Bioware has endorsed, or so I understand. If we accept that premise, then the problem may be one of utility. I see Sorc/Whateverthesissyclassiscalled players gaining medals for damage and healing done in the same match. I see some of them doing a large amount of damage and healing in the same match, yet these players are -intensely- hard to kill. And the thing about being hard to kill in team fight is that long fights often work out the way hand-to-hand fights run on the modern battlefield - they last until the winner's buddy shows up with a gun. So a Sorc, continuing the example, can inflict a high level of damage, heal a lot of damage, and shield themselves for a not inconsiderable amount, all with the same spec. A pure dps can only pound on them and interrupt to counter - and interrupting only locks out that one skill.

 

Another issue is the fact that PvP mechanics affect certain classes unevenly. I'm looking at YOU, Resolve! See, if a Sniper, or even my Assassin in pure DPS mode, get smacked with a CC, it's usually to facilitate beating on him. By the time he gets enough resolve to be immune to further CC, he's nearly dead already. But a sorc, or especially a geared tank, can deal much better, unless they get beaten down completely by a mob of people. This is especially true if they get a defensive button cooldown off, or if they burn their breaker to get out of the second stun (it only takes two to fill resolve). A Sith Juggernaut in PvP tank gear is an unstoppable, er, juggernaut, in many cases; a sorc who can slap on a shield and then root you while she runs around the corner and heals for a quarter of her health bar isn't too far behind. Certainly there are tactical issues that are very important (PASS THE BALL, for the love of DECENCY, pass the BAAAAAAALL), but proper tactics make use of class capabilities; they do not alter them.

 

Finally, it should be considered that Expertise is not an equally weighted stat for all classes. The primary example is: healers double dip. Let me say that again: healers double dip! If I'm fighting a marauder as an Assassin, our Expertise only counts twice for either of us: it makes each of us do more damage, and it makes us both harder to kill by reducing incoming damage. If we've got equal gear, that damage/reduction evens out, and it's just class abilities and player skills that affect the contest. A Sorc (to continue the example) gets her Expertise three times. If our gear is equal, her damage % and reduction % counter mine, but she still gets a boost to her healing. Now, some of you are thinking, "So what? Healing is part of her class, so if she didn't get a bonus, Expertise would actually be worth less; this just makes it even."

 

That seems valid reasoning, but there's a catch: since no resource in the game can run out (as opposed to mana pools), balance is about deltas - the rate of change- stacked up against total hp. So if two classes are balanced, Class A's damage should equal Class B's effective total hp (including healing) at the same time the reverse occurs. Adding equal stats to the mix should preserve the balance. Letting healers double dip doesn't do this. If you add, say 5% worth of Expertise to Class A (dps) and Class B (healer), then the damage and mitigation numbers even out - I'm not doing any more damage to her; she's not doing any more damage to me, but she still gets 5% extra healing - which means 5% of her healing's contribution to her effective hp. If we were even before, we're not now, because her effective hp just went up. The net difference may be only a few hundred hp over the course of the fight. But that only matters when my buddy shows up to avenge my lifeless corpse.

 

PS: another way to put this is to say that the Healer's extra healing reduces my net damage output, making the fight last longer and allowing her to deal more damage - it all works out the same.

Edited January 25, 2012 by VoidAngel

[Nicodareus]

Personally, I made a gunslinger, and have an alt sentinel, and keeping my commando low level.

 

I enjoy healing. I also enjoy tanking. Probably healing a bit more.

 

However I do not enjoy either of those while dealing with a terrible UI.

 

No target of target display or being able to use click-casting for heals just kills it for me. So I will keep my alt there, ready for the day when the UI lets me heal the way I want.

[thomasdr]

I'm not sure about a BH doing as much dps as a sorc or agent while healing, however as a power tech I don't have any healing at all. Do Mercs heal as much as a Sorc and Agent while dishing out good dps?

 

Nope because we don't have hots and dots. But our damage is pretty good, but you'll sacrifice a lot of healing by doing damage. Highest I've managed is 140k damage and 410k healing, I think I spent half the warzone doing dps though.

Problem with Bodyguard mercs doing dps is that it uses A LOT of heat unless you use your cooldown that makes powershot cost 7 heat instead of 25.

 

As a dps merc however I feel my healing is a lot less effective than my damage as bodyguard.

Edited January 25, 2012 by thomasdr

[Verrell]

You're incorrect then.

 

A hybrid like a parakeet build Powertech will not do the same dps as a mara of equal skill or have the defensive stats (or survivability) of an equal skill tank spec jugg.

 

:edit: @ Above - you *do* need to be in tank stance to guard and while you can switch stances in combat some classes (trooper / bh) have a 1.5sec cast time on the stances.

 

 

But you can taunt without tank stance, if you want to be a big target while DPS spec that is.

 

Yes, true. But at the same time, Warzones and PvP is about a team working together. So in the end, just flat out DPS won't get you far like protection and healing will.

[EternalFinality]

This.

 

It's quite simple. My Parakeet build Powertech uses tank stance, and his DPS is much lower than a build with 31 pyro because I would have to spend loads of points improving my dps stance and then not use it.

 

So if a DPS spec Powertech uses the tank stance they lose out a lot of procs, resets, etc.

 

With Jugg I think it's even harder with the tank stance being got via the tank tree so you have to spec into tanking to get it. And again, many of their skill points are invested in their DPS stances if they are DPS spec.

 

 

It's a complete fantasy that a hybrid does the DPS of a DPS class and the healing of a healing class. You can choose to do both worse or one well.

 

This is ludicrous. Think for a moment. You are assembling a group of people to PvP and can choose class make up. One slot left.

 

Would you take a pure dps class, or a hybrid class who can put out the same damage BUT also do something else not very well if necessary.

 

It's a no brainer. See ya pure classes!

Edited January 26, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Talkative]

This is ludicrous. Think for a moment. You are assembling a group of people to PvP and can choose class make up. One slot left.

 

Would you take a pure dps class, or a hybrid class who can put out the same damage BUT also do something else not very well if necessary.

 

It's a no brainer. See ya pure classes!

Indeed. Still confused why they didn't just toss a tanking tree at snipers/gunslingers and a healing tree at sentinels/marauders.

[Verrell]

Indeed. Still confused why they didn't just toss a tanking tree at snipers/gunslingers and a healing tree at sentinels/marauders.

 

Maybe they were intended to be pve-friendly, and all the hybrids = made for pvp? Kinda far fetched to say that but its looking that way.

[EternalFinality]

Maybe they were intended to be pve-friendly, and all the hybrids = made for pvp? Kinda far fetched to say that but its looking that way.

 

Repeat what I just said for PvE. You're a raid leader. Who do you take for dps, someone who can only dps, or someone who puts out the same damage BUT can crappily perform another role in an emergency?

Edited January 26, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Ravzar]

Some people in this thread clearly don't know what classes are the pure dps classes. This is evidenced by people QQing about scoundrels etc when in actual fact scoundrels are not a pure DPS class. They have a healing tree and a DPS tree. Believe it or not, some scoundrels actually rolled their class to heal (I even know one!).

 

The pure DPS classes are Sentinel/Gunslinger/Marauder/Sniper as they can't do anything but DPS. Now whether there is a point to playing one is a valid point. They can't off spec heal, guard, or taunt. Imo some good debuffs need to go to these classes. Right now the GS gets a 20% armour debuff and the Sentinel gets a 20% heal debuff. Heal debuffs are more powerful than armour debuffs so perhaps it should be increased to a 35% heal debuff and a 50% armour debuff for these pure DPS classes to make them worthwhile playing in groups instead of just running all consulars (which is sadly perfectly viable).

 

BW has tried to do something with sentinel's group buffs. Perhaps they can lower the cd on the one that increases party damage/healing to make it more useful (5 minutes is quite long). For Gunslinger they can probably lower the CD of scrambling shield and increse the aoe damage by making the grenade spammable with the cd reduction skill instead of a 3s cd and increase how fast the damage starts on the ground target aoe... just ideas without really increasing single target dps.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ravzar

[Riggam]

To the OP:

 

there is no point.

 

My guild has run full groups of just sorcs and bh's. 1 powertech as a tank and then mercs and sorcs as dps and heals. so 3/8 classes are needed to play this game

 

In pvp it's even worse. I've posted, and seen many posts about full sorc and merc teams. There is 0 point in being a "pure dps" class, and not much point in being anything other than a BH or sorc