President and COO of HeroEngine blames Bioware for poor coding!

[djpravda]

No matter what Bioware is going to do with it, add more crates, change objectives, set limits.

 

The game Engine aka HeroEngine will never be able to handle more than 8v8 battles. Why???

 

---Engine is full of memory leaks

---not optimized

---full of bugs

---broken codes

---poor network

 

 

In this article Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine blames Bioware for poor coding trying to defend his Engine!

 

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/#comments

 

 

 

 

Regarding SW:TOR, we have no way to know how they are handling graphics detail, shading, or other factors that impact frame rate. An engine is the first step, and then it’s up to the engineers and art directors to manage the technical steps necessary to implement their game design.

 

So, we can’t really give you any insight on how their game is performing in that way, and I’m sure they are working hard at improving any specific issues they are seeing. BioWare is responsible for their own game, we gave them the tools.

 

by Neil Harris, President and COO of HeroEngine

[djpravda]

This explains why the game has been released with Anti Aliasing disabled, high resolution textures disabled, uniform colouring disabled, shadows with edges the size of pool table triangles and animations that cause major conflicts with actual ability use.

[Radiozo]

Interesting.

 

"I am sure that BioWare had rooms full of engineers who customized the engine for their needs. That is normal for projects of that scale. Because of the way they chose to convey combat and the graphical style, they clearly had to highly tailor the renderer for their own needs. I don’t have much contact with their engineers any more (the last code drop they took from us was about 3 years ago) so I can’t really speak to how much of our rendering technology is left in SW:TOR but I honestly don’t think there would be much."

 

BW ****ed up

[DarthNemis]

Will things get better regarding this issue or no?

[Cynan_Ski]

Honestly i would probably look at EA Games a little more than any of the other parties involved..

 

With tons of cash invested in this game and investors getting a little impatient to see a return......

[Soulaufein]

Honestly i would probably look at EA Games a little more than any of the other parties involved..

 

With tons of cash invested in this game and investors getting a little impatient to see a return......

 

This. We (players) have got to punch them where it hurts, and where they really care - money. And this can be done by using the oh so viral Internet to spread the technical issues the game has. Bioware did a tremendously incompetent job with the game engine, from top specced machines delaing with 10 fps in WZs, ability delay, anything bigger than a 5v5 gets turned to a delay fest, you name it.

 

Not even sound - wether you like it or not, the game's biggest selling point - is properly implemented. Technically, this game is just a massive failure. I hope they get it right until the end of March. I really do.

[Roak]

This. We (players) have got to punch them where it hurts, and where they really care - money. And this can be done by using the oh so viral Internet to spread the technical issues the game has. Bioware did a tremendously incompetent job with the game engine, from top specced machines delaing with 10 fps in WZs, ability delay, anything bigger than a 5v5 gets turned to a delay fest, you name it.

 

Not even sound - wether you like it or not, the game's biggest selling point - is properly implemented. Technically, this game is just a massive failure. I hope they get it right until the end of March. I really do.

 

Or you could just unsubscribe

[djpravda]

Well.. clearly lets just compare 2 games quick

 

BF2 on Frostbite 2 Engine and this Swtor on HeroEngine:

 

IN Bf3 on 64 player map, where everything is destructible, bullets flying here and there, flames, explosions we get stable game with 60FPS Ultra Settings.

 

Now lets pick any 8v8 Warzone! What do we see? Horrible performance and fps.

 

Let's pick Ilum 32 vs 32 fight. What do we get? A *********** 1 fps SLIDESHOW

[-Arcane-]

Well.. clearly lets just compare 2 games quick

 

BF2 on Frostbite 2 Engine and this Swtor on HeroEngine:

 

IN Bf3 on 64 player map, where everything is destructible, bullets flying here and there, flames, explosions we get stable game with 60FPS Ultra Settings.

 

Now lets pick any 8v8 Warzone! What do we see? Horrible performance and fps.

 

Let's pick Ilum 32 vs 32 fight. What do we get? A *********** 1 fps SLIDESHOW

 

This ^

 

 

Why cant swtor play like a fps?

[pitdingo]

can someone post a video of a game using Hero Engine which has a large scale pvp battle where there is little lag? that would show the engine can do it which would point the blame squarely at BioWare. Otherwise, it looks like Hero Engine can not handle it.

[djpravda]

can someone post a video of a game using Hero Engine which has a large scale pvp battle where there is little lag? that would show the engine can do it which would point the blame squarely at BioWare. Otherwise, it looks like Hero Engine can not handle it.

 

That would be great, lets find a video

[Cynan_Ski]

This ^

 

 

Why cant swtor play like a fps?

 

Battlefront 2

[Fantastix]

so bw failed not heroengine actually?

[Radiozo]

so bw failed not heroengine actually?

 

Both I guess. They shouldnt have chosen hero engine to begin with.

[Radiozo]

Well.. clearly lets just compare 2 games quick

 

BF2 on Frostbite 2 Engine and this Swtor on HeroEngine:

 

IN Bf3 on 64 player map, where everything is destructible, bullets flying here and there, flames, explosions we get stable game with 60FPS Ultra Settings.

 

Now lets pick any 8v8 Warzone! What do we see? Horrible performance and fps.

 

Let's pick Ilum 32 vs 32 fight. What do we get? A *********** 1 fps SLIDESHOW

 

Frostbyte 2 wasnt available 3 years ago.

[GrandMike]

Of course they are gonna blame BW. Their engine is da bestest out there.

 

Seems both are screwed.

[Chiricahua]

Guild Wars 2 will use this:

 

It uses Havok to provide destructible environment and ragdoll animation of creatures and Umbra's Occlusion culling technology.

 

Got this from the Wiki.

[PureHavoc]

Guild Wars 2 will use this:

 

It uses Havok to provide destructible environment and ragdoll animation of creatures and Umbra's Occlusion culling technology.

 

Got this from the Wiki.

 

Great I'll go change that to Heroengine

[Zarthorn]

Well.. clearly lets just compare 2 games quick

 

BF2 on Frostbite 2 Engine and this Swtor on HeroEngine:

 

IN Bf3 on 64 player map, where everything is destructible, bullets flying here and there, flames, explosions we get stable game with 60FPS Ultra Settings.

 

Now lets pick any 8v8 Warzone! What do we see? Horrible performance and fps.

 

Let's pick Ilum 32 vs 32 fight. What do we get? A *********** 1 fps SLIDESHOW

 

Major difference here.

 

MMO's are an entirely different animal to BF3 which runs dedicated server racks for singular map rotations, thus you are always guaranteed a steady flow of bandwidth and FPS, the frostbite engine has had time to develop and refine plenty as such it has now reached a near-perfect stage.

 

Now with MMO's you have to account for the fact, that the server rack isn't running just Ilum, it's running lots of different "maps" all at once with different players doing different things, this is why during offpeak, latency is noticably improved over peak times where you can get the occasional stutter.

 

Do Bioware needs to optimize the engine and code? Sure, but to expect it to ever be anything near as perfect as an FPS that runs a map rotation, that just shows a lack of understanding and expecting something that clearly will never happen.

 

If you want to play action FPS games that run perfectly smooth all the time, go ahead play BF3 and enjoy playing a game in which community simply does not exist.

 

I'll continue to play MMO's, even despite knowing they are generally always going to be flawed until we get to a stage where high speed fiberoptic broadband connection is a requirement, only then shall MMO's begin to evolve beyond "lag"

[DestyOwn]

Major difference here.

 

MMO's are an entirely different animal to BF3 which runs dedicated server racks for singular map rotations, thus you are always guaranteed a steady flow of bandwidth and FPS, the frostbite engine has had time to develop and refine plenty as such it has now reached a near-perfect stage.

 

Now with MMO's you have to account for the fact, that the server rack isn't running just Ilum, it's running lots of different "maps" all at once with different players doing different things, this is why during offpeak, latency is noticably improved over peak times where you can get the occasional stutter.

 

Do Bioware needs to optimize the engine and code? Sure, but to expect it to ever be anything near as perfect as an FPS that runs a map rotation, that just shows a lack of understanding and expecting something that clearly will never happen.

 

If you want to play action FPS games that run perfectly smooth all the time, go ahead play BF3 and enjoy playing a game in which community simply does not exist.

 

I'll continue to play MMO's, even despite knowing they are generally always going to be flawed until we get to a stage where high speed fiberoptic broadband connection is a requirement, only then shall MMO's begin to evolve beyond "lag"

 

First of all , it has nothing to do with ethernet bandwidth, second of all, this game has no physics.

 

There is probably as much IO's in a 64 BF3 map than in a whole SWTOR Server. and then comes the engines that probably renders 3-5 times more particles, more textures , more everything.

 

Their server could probably run an SWTOR Instance without a problem....

 

Its only the code optimization and the way its programmed that blows.

[Zarthorn]

First of all , it has nothing to do with ethernet bandwidth, second of all, this game has no physics.

 

There is probably as much IO's in a 64 BF3 map than in a whole SWTOR Server. and then comes the engines that probably renders 3-5 times more particles, more textures , more everything.

 

Their server could probably run an SWTOR Instance without a problem....

 

Its only the code optimization and the way its programmed that blows.

 

Stop using your flawed comparison please, single map rotation that houses 64 players only per server rack vs multiple static zones + map instances of thousands of players at a time per server rack.

 

This is why they have things like closed/open beta for MMO's but don't tend to for FPS'es, because inhouse testing would be completely smooth since there would be no more than a hundred people on the same server.

 

Each server for an mmo houses litterally thousands of players....not 30, not 64....thousands.

 

As the line went in The Last Samurai...."Do you understand this number?"

Edited January 25, 2012 by Zarthorn

[Dzhokhar]

BioWare's biggest mistake was using HeroEngine as a starting point. HeroEngine was never suitable for a AAA release. EA and BioWare had the resources to develop their own engine from scratch and decided to cheap out.

 

I'd bet that HeroEngine's inadequacies are a huge part of why SWTOR came out in December and not March like originally planned.

[Zythaera]

First of all , it has nothing to do with ethernet bandwidth, second of all, this game has no physics.

 

There is probably as much IO's in a 64 BF3 map than in a whole SWTOR Server. and then comes the engines that probably renders 3-5 times more particles, more textures , more everything.

 

Their server could probably run an SWTOR Instance without a problem....

 

Its only the code optimization and the way its programmed that blows.

 

 

Where in his post does it say 'ethernet'?

 

 

Two different engines for two different game genres. FROSTBITE is an FPS engine. HeroEngine ,until recently lacked FPS support, so you could argue that back then it was a MMO engine.

 

I say we just blame it all on EA since EA had the funds necessary to develop a proper engine for such a big-name game. Instead, the picked an engine that's got a free license for up to 99 developers and when it makes money they take 30% of the profits. Now i doubt this is the case, and that BW/EA bought a license. Whoever suggested HeroEngine should be shot.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Zythaera

[djpravda]

Stop using your flawed comparison please, single map rotation that houses 64 players only per server rack vs multiple static zones + map instances of thousands of players at a time per server rack.

 

This is why they have things like closed/open beta for MMO's but don't tend to for FPS'es, because inhouse testing would be completely smooth since there would be no more than a hundred people on the same server.

 

Each server for an mmo houses litterally thousands of players....not 30, not 64....thousands.

 

As the line went in The Last Samurai...."Do you understand this number?"

 

Can you explain me why on such a small map like huttball we get lag and poor performance?

 

How is it different from instanced map rotation?

[SteamTrout]

BF3 server is not 1 server rack per map. If it was so the costs of renting a server would be absolutely insane, not to mention there will be only oh so much servers you could rent. Each rack runs a number of virtual servers which, in turn, run that 1 map.