(Challenge)SHOW ME PROOF!

[Bovinity]

Ah ha! Cleary from the definate tone of your post you can back this up with a post 1.1 video of any non tanking class NOT surviving said combo? At last! Someone who can prove it! Comon mate, we are all waiting to see it

 

Clearly from this post I deduce that you can prove that you eat food by posting a video of you cramming a hoagie into your mouth for us all!!?

 

No? You don't care enough to put the time and effort into making a video of something silly to fulfill the whims of people on an internet forum?

 

Well then I guess you don't eat and you must be a robot. The facts presented here prove it.

[RamzaBehoulve]

Ah ha! Cleary from the definate tone of your post you can back this up with a post 1.1 video of any non tanking class NOT surviving said combo? At last! Someone who can prove it! Comon mate, we are all waiting to see it

 

I never argued we couldn't survive the first 3s burst, nor agreed with the totality of the current nerf. As far as I'm concerned, the combo includes the vanish and finishing moves. I don't know why you think being left with less than 30% HPs is somehow much better than dead, but that's not something I want to understand.

 

What I know is reducing anyone not a full armored tank to below 30% HPs in 3s with the ability to vanish if needed and do it again to finish you off is a problem that's being addressed.

 

Are they doing too much? Maybe. Was something needed to be done? Totally.

Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[JudgeHoldenAMV]

The reason why you can't find a video is because it's myth. "This one lvl 10, a friend of a friend of a friend's friend, got one shotted by a 50 OP pumped up on buffs ... he rage quit ... true story ... Then the op was one shotted by some sort of purple **** ... true story.":eek:

[Lykurgus]

I never argued we couldn't survive, nor agreed with the totality of the current nerf.

 

What I know is reducing anyone not a full armored tank to below 30% HPs in 3s with the ability to vanish and do it again to finish you off is a problem that's being addressed.

 

Are they doing too much? Maybe. Was something needed to be done? Totally.

 

 

Thats the whole point of this thread, what is being said is that doing that level of damage in 3 seconds is no longer possible.

 

I agree completly that it should never have been possible in the first place, the buff stacking was a MASSIVE oversight on the behalf of bioware. Hence the fix for it last week.

 

Do they need to continue with the planned nerf? As it stands now i personally dont think they do. But i guess we'll just have to wait and see what its like after the nerf bat swings.

 

Sorry if i misunderstood you there mate. The old issue with written comunication, its impossible to read tone and infelction

[RamzaBehoulve]

The reason why you can't find a video is because it's myth. "This one lvl 10, a friend of a friend of a friend's friend, got one shotted by a 50 OP pumped up on buffs ... he rage quit ... true story ... Then the op was one shotted by some sort of purple **** ... true story.":eek:

 

Being OS is an exaggeration.

 

That's not the real problem. Bursting almost anyone down for 10k HPs in 3s was over the top. Bioware is adressing it, arguably not in the best way they could. Nothing more to say.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, the ones able to do that have always been lvl 30+, so I assume the knockdown is high in a tree. Still doesn't mean that combo was ok.

Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[GengisKahn]

Nope. Just enjoying the threads and threads of tears after a month of listening to you guys tell everyone else not to whine.

 

 

Then for your sake i hope you are a sorceror, because stupid nerfs based on bad sorcerors tears wont stop here. BH/Troopers will probably be next, once a couple of good BH/Troopers will be the ones that kill faster the huge bad sorcerors population.

Edited January 25, 2012 by GengisKahn

[RamzaBehoulve]

Do they need to continue with the planned nerf? As it stands now i personally dont think they do. But i guess we'll just have to wait and see what its like after the nerf bat swings.

 

I also think they are doing too much. Only one of the 3 listed changes is needed to make it perfectly acceptable. In fact, I'd say just lower the knockdown to 2s instead of 3s (current nerf being 1.5s) would give the ability to counter into the hands of the opponent instead of nerfing the direct damage of other abilities.

 

One less second on the knockdown personally would leave me with enough HPs to pop defensive moves and have a fighting chance.

 

Currently, I don't have enough HPs left to really fight back though. It's more like poking them before dieing. That one extra second of knockdown currently is deadly to most.

Edited January 25, 2012 by RamzaBehoulve

[Warkyd]

Ah ha! Cleary from the definate tone of your post you can back this up with a post 1.1 video of any non tanking class NOT surviving said combo? At last! Someone who can prove it! Comon mate, we are all waiting to see it

 

He needed more downtime waiting for his 1-2 buttons to refresh. The rotation was crap, the video was crap, arguing that the opener didnt need tuned down is crap.

 

The fact that the video shows him waiting 2-3 seconds atleast twice for backstab to refresh illustrates how most OPs have simply been using the obvious 3 abilities and facerolling their way to victory. 1333 cunning at level 50.... /facepalm

Sorry, but your vid doesnt help you.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Warkyd

[Lykurgus]

He needed more downtime waiting for his 1-2 buttons to refresh. The rotation was crap, the video was crap, arguing that the opener didnt need tuned down is crap.

 

The fact that the video shows him waiting 2-3 seconds atleast twice for backstab to refresh illustrates how most OPs have simply been using the obvious 3 abilities and facerolling their way to victory. 1333 cunning at level 50.... /facepalm

Sorry, but your vid doesnt help you.

 

Wasn't my vid. Also, i never said it was a good vid. Or that it proved anything at all. All I said was show me a vid, post 1.1 of an Op or a Scoundrel doing the old "OMG HE KILLED ME 3 SECONDS" thing. If you can show me that, then you are correct.

[Asnine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoM0CV9BRPs&feature=related

 

May not be 1.1 but you cant argue that 1.1 would make a difference for duels.

 

This.

 

Again.

 

 

Way to ignore how the op WASN'T using buff stacking in the duels. So the fact that it was pre 1.1 is irrelevant.

[Tokosteef]

Almost 30 pages, still no proof.

[Kjetl]

Almost 30 pages, still no proof either way.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Tokosteef]

Fixed it for you.

 

Sorry, what do you want me to prove?

[Armethious]

Almost 30 pages, still no proof.

 

And yes there is, see the post about yours. To not accept the above video just shows how biased you are. The ONLY difference between now and pre 1.1 is buff stacking which is OBVIOUSLY not taking place in that video.

 

And what the OP is asking for is ridiculous. What operative is going to willfully post proof that his class needs to get nerfed. It is in their self interest of their own class to NOT try to show how OP they are.

 

That is like asking a criminal to take it upon himself to prove his is a criminal so that he can be arrested and sent to jail.

[Asnine]

And yes there is, see the post about yours. To not accept the above video just shows how biased you are. The ONLY difference between now and pre 1.1 is buff stacking which is OBVIOUSLY not taking place in that video.

 

And what the OP is asking for is ridiculous. What operative is going to willfully post proof that his class needs to get nerfed. It is in their self interest of their own class to NOT try to show how OP they are.

 

That is like asking a criminal to take it upon himself to prove his is a criminal so that he can be arrested and sent to jail.

 

They're just going to conveniently ignore it.

 

Although "technically" there is no 8k (or 9k, w.e. the op asked for) single hit.

[DrRepulsor]

Ok so we have all seen the videos of people rolling lowbies while they are simulatneously hyped up on adrenals, relics, and red buffs. I challenge anyone to make a video of them getting rolled in a stun by an operative that has no buffs rolling on them. I also challenge any operatives to make videos of them face rolling people in a stun while not using anything but self/ops buffs.

 

Lets keep in mind what people are claiming.

 

1. They are dying IN A 3 SECOND STUN

 

2. They are dying BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REACT

 

3. Heavy armor classes with 500+ exp are getting dropped to sub 30% in an opener.

 

There it is. You have your challenge. Now lets keep in mind that we are looking for clean kills with little/no outside help from teammates. This will be difficult but not impossible. No buffs except those that are applied in the starting areas. Also try to have some class...if you are level 49, dont go pick on lvl 11's to make a point...or seek them out and see if you can indeed kill them in your 3 second stun. Stop all damage after three seconds(2 attacks).

 

Good luck, I await your videos!

 

Hey good post totally agree with u if u want check out my videos u will be surprise it was before they took out 50's from Wzs means that video will represent 90% of fight vs 50's.

SO check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PdOhUdocQ

[DrRepulsor]

And one more thing soon will come out another video me 50 fight vs geared 50s most of fights so keep in touch. Subscribe or like if u did like my videos and check out more SWTOR video on this channel me /my cousin doing it!

ANd sry for bad english not a first language

[Susprina]

Yes, you can always roll bad players.

 

Its against good players that a nerf liek this will destroy the class, balance should not be made against bad players, but Bioware doesnt think that way, thats why they are balancing jarring strike knockdowns to bad players that cant press a cc breaker button fast enough.

 

 

 

So let me get it right. The difference between bad and good players is having your cc breaker off cd.

 

So goods are bad if it's on cd.

Bads are bad if it's off cd and they can't reach it in time.

 

Glad to have that cleared up.

[Vant]

Except stims, adrenals and relics are part of the game, so why would you not use them?

 

Because not everyone wants to go BioChem just to be able to do damage.

[Vant]

Don't need to prove anything

BW's actions based on hard facts are all the proof you need

 

No, BioWare jumped to make a large percent of people happy. They actually listen to folks. That may be their downfall. Without Adrenals and buffs stacked, the damage COULD NOT be done. If it were possible, then it would still be happening and shockingly, where has all the whining gone?

 

They actually listened to the players and their "please make the dailies kill related" threads that were all over this forum when people were complaining. Guess what, they listened to players, and BLAM, everyone still hates Ilum and now they complain that it "takes too long" to complete the dailies, etc.

 

They would be better off just putting a product out there and saying, "deal with it" because the majority of players are morons and just cry when they don't get their way.

[Veltpunch]

I play a Scoundrel with atm ca 400 expertise. My highest crit so far has been 5,1K with my opener and trinket. Rest of my crits go between 1.8K - 4K. Against decent, equally geared people i do about 3.3K as highest. Against tank classes i do max 2K. I do believe our burst should be slightly bit nerfed but people are forgetting one thing. It's not the nerf most of us are complaining about but the severity of the nerfs.

 

Basically, if i dont get my target down to atleast 50%, i have to use dissapearing act (vanish) so i can use my opener again to pump out dome extra damage. If i dont succeed, i'll most likely get rooted and CC breaker has such long cooldown, i end up most times after my opener being complete useless unless im fighting another melee class.

 

Again, what most of us are complaining about is that they are taking away too much without thinking of our damage after our burst. Our only source if damage is our opener. We can only dish out damage for three seconds they are faceplanted fron our opener, we have no sustainable dps. To become useful in teamfights which occurs like 90% of the fights in WZ and Illum, we have to go out of combat to restealth which is very hard to accomplish due to the nature of all AOE spells present during teamfights.

 

My point is, if they are taking away alot from of our burst (which is our main source of damage) and even some of our already bad sustainable dps (flachette round nerf). After our opener, our damage relies on the backblast cd, blaster whip cooldown which also grants upperhand and sucker punch. (which relies on upperhand). As of now, we have no gap closers and we rely too much on our opener, that nerfing it too much would kill our role in pvp.

 

We do damage on squishy targets and thats what we do, operatives and scoundrels. Be it quick, agile tactics of an operative to kill a target with precision and speed, or dirty methods by scoundrels. It's our role and should remain so.

 

My opinion

[Tetrablade]

Plenty vids out there on the subject and having pvped myself a lot i can content to the insane burst. Fact is bioware looked into it and yes they agreed it was op, its a good thing the class has so much utility. I would say the uprising of ops crying out about it indicates its a move in the right direction, much like 50s claiming brackets would destroy the universe.

 

...What utility? I'm serious, what utility does a Operative have?

 

Operatives are the same as smugglers, and as a smuggler the only 'Utility' I have is to make empire nervous and paranoid by continuously tranquilizing them. One cc on a min cooldown, another on a 45 that can be reduced to 30. Other then that? Supposedly the ability to unload in melee, but that gets people to call overpowered.

 

Lets see, sorc can bubble, heal, knockback (base ability no less), slow, stun, ect., ect. The non-force stealth users? Hit like a truck and hope you kill them before their friends show up. I've seen assasins take down groups of people before slipping away, but we can only take one at a time.

 

I agree the damage is front loaded, but we have no sustainable damage, no real way to defend ourselves, have to rely on a timed buff to use our heavy attack, and still can only take on one person at a time. But this nerf is going to take away our opener, which surprise as a stealth class hurts, so now we won't be able to kill anything. Expect to see a lot less non-force stealth users who arn't healing.

 

Wonder when they will take a swing at sage/sorc players?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Tetrablade

[Lykurgus]

This.

 

Again.

 

 

Way to ignore how the op WASN'T using buff stacking in the duels. So the fact that it was pre 1.1 is irrelevant.

 

 

Just to restate the ops. points.....

 

 

 

 

1. They are dying IN A 3 SECOND STUN

 

2. They are dying BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REACT

 

3. Heavy armor classes with 500+ exp are getting dropped to sub 30% in an opener.

 

NONE of the above apply to this vid.

 

 

1) It takes 6 seconds to kill him (twice what is claimed)

 

2) Thats 3 seconds of reaction time, thats a loooong time in pvp

 

3) Its agaisnt a clothie.

 

 

Next.

[Lykurgus]

Anyone else notice btw since 1.1 there has been a 98% reduction in the amount of "NERF OPERATIVE" threads?

 

 

Conincidence? I think not.

[aleiro]

I agree that the nerf may be too much.

 

 

From what I've been reading what I conclude is:

 

Scoundrels agree that a nerf was needed.

 

Scoundrels agree that the nerf might be too strong.

 

It would be nice that they let us test it in the test server...

 

I beleive you need a damage adjustment on that opener, 5k crit plus 4s stun is just too much. Now they only adressed the stun duration, which may be wrong in my opinion. They should have just removed the sick damage and added another ability from stealth that does huge damage with no stun, as it has always been with stealth classes.