OPs/scoundrel HLPVP

[gouak]

In high end pvp 4v4s, we certainly do not have the Overpowerness everyone is claiming to see.

 

Full geared with 140lv gear, I never crit a fully geared battlemaster for more than 5k3.

That is in a perfect situation with no guard, no taunts.

 

We have the least survival tools for group pvp (single quite strong if used correctly), and suffer ALOT from being focused. Vanish might seem OP for most people but if you find yourself against a team putting a lot of pressure on your team, you are forcing your teammates into a 4v3 situation until your are fit again for battle duty.

 

Find yourselves a good tank or off-tank, and some reactive DDs and healers.

I roll with a healer sage, a dps vanguard using defensive stance, a AOE spec'd sentinel and myself, a burst scoundrel.

We never, ever die from a scoundrel/op initial burst. 1.5 sec is all it takes us to turn around a cc the hell out of one. He Is lucky if he can get two shots in a row. Not to mention we don't have any gap closer (plz don't say vanish, or you just lost your main escape from jail card to run back)

 

I will try to post some fraps from our training and some footage of thursdays pvp tournament on European star map server.

 

We need our current burst capabilities to be competitive high end because of all the damage mitigation going on. (yes there is some mitigation going on! If you can't see it, change partners!)

 

Not to mention our out of combat stealth mezz applies a full resolve bar, not the assassin one.

 

Don't ruin it just for some unstuff lowbies crying for dying in PUGs.

[Treplos]

I agree .. please read my detailed post here:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=232243

[FalmeseReb]

everyone with half a brain stem knows that scoundrel/op isnt broken, its the mouth breathers that think they should be able to stand in 1 spot spamming force lightning that dont get it.

[Selout]

everyone with half a brain stem knows that scoundrel/op isnt broken, its the mouth breathers that think they should be able to stand in 1 spot spamming force lightning that dont get it.

 

Lol, wrong. Almost everyone I know who is over valor rank 60, like myself, agrees with the changes for 1.1.1. That includes every conceal/scrapper I know that is actually good.

 

@OP and what are these "high end 4v4"'s you are doing? Setting up some "matches" in the FFA area on Tatooine? Or perhaps queuing with your 4 man and running into another 4 man that you know is geared in a BG. Or even, you roam in Ilum. In any case, I'd hardly call that high end PvP. The game is too new to have real high end PvP so stop acting as if you are doing any right now to make your plea sound more credible.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Selout

[DeadInkPen]

Lol, wrong. Almost everyone I know who is over valor rank 60, like myself, agrees with the changes for 1.1.1. That includes every conceal/scrapper I know that is actually good.

 

Then the people you know who are rank 60 must be really bad. I have never once had a problem killing an operative or scoundrel with those specs, even once they get the jump on me. They are pathetically weak out of stealth. And their out of stealth damage is like being hit by spitballs. I highly doubt most of the people claiming to be Ops/Scoundrels at level 50 on these forums are that. We have no way to actually prove that they are.

 

@OP and what are these "high end 4v4"'s you are doing? Setting up some "matches" in the FFA area on Tatooine? Or perhaps queuing with your 4 man and running into another 4 man that you know is geared in a BG. Or even, you roam in Ilum. In any case, I'd hardly call that high end PvP. The game is too new to have real high end PvP so stop acting as if you are doing any right now to make your plea sound more credible.

 

Now you invalidate yourself with the first half of what you said. Anyone who has some grasp of basic understanding of PvP in MMO's will admit that pvp at level 50 (MAX LEVEL) is considered high end. Then you also mentioned rank 60 valor earlier. That opens up a new level of PvP gear too, so that can be considered High End. Obviously you haven't a grasp of what you are talking about.

Since you have this omnipitent wisdom of what HIGH END PVP is, please do enlighten us. Obviously those who do have a concept of what it is don't understand it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by DeadInkPen

[nringles]

Battle-master operative point of view, we need nerfs and these are the things I can abuse.

 

Hidden Strike needs a CD, things I can abuse with hidden strike; I can open on you for 3-5k (crits are to high non crits are fine) depending on armor then cloaking screen and re-open for another 3-5k w/ crit plus acid blade dot most people are to low at that point to fight back, I can do this in the middle of your team in what looks like 1 GCD, no one can react to that.

 

Hidden Strike needs a CD, I can go into a 3v1 where they have 1 or more weakened low health team mates open with HS on low health target and score a kill before team can react and infiltrate back into stealth and open on next low health target with HS score kill before other team mates put me in combat and re-stealth open again with HS. I DO THIS A LOT. I am highly skilled at pvp and other high skill players can't defend against this because they have no chance to react.

 

HS-dead player-infiltrate-HS-dead player-Stealth-HS

 

Low Health targets are to vulnerable to HS. There is no defending against an operative who opens from stealth when you are already low, low health targets should be an easy kill for anyone who finds them, not a free one.

 

Things I think need to be changed and things I think should stay the same:

 

Give Hidden Strike a CD doesn't need to be long 6 secs would make a world of difference.

 

Take away Hidden strikes high crit multiplier when attacking targets below 90% Health, as to gimp our ability to jump from target to target when there are players at low health but keeping our ability to open on players when a fight starts, not shark around collecting free kills after the fights over.

 

The Knockdown is fine, jarring strike FILLS THE RESOLVE BAR, after we open on a fresh high health target the cc is over for 8? seconds, take that free un-cc'able time to realize how fragile operatives are. I would go so far as to be fine with our knockdown only effecting targets above 90%, wouldn't that be something, a fair damaging opener that doesn't knockdown if have already been fighting. maybe something in that area make it a 1.5 when target is below 90%.

 

20% base dmg reduction on Hidden Strike will be fine FOR NOW (after players get their gear it will be a 3 second knockdown not much else), from experience my Hidden Strike with 640 expertise is just breaking Sage/Sorc shield of equal gear, which then CC me after the shield is broken, so I cc sorc as I open sorc CC's me and any others in the area just by having shield on then its any mans fight. PRO TIP in a 1v1 the Sorc should be the winner.

 

1.5 second knockdown is not needed and when/if this change goes live will not be spec'ed into. Our opener does to much dmg RATE NOW (people are gearing) so a 20% nerf to HS and add in a CD so Operatives can't double tap HS back to back will allow players to be much healthy after an opener.

 

50% armor pen down to 30% is not needed, this will hurt PvE operatives and hurt operative abilities to do anything to all armor types in PvP. Operatives are 90% kinetic dmg acid blade dot and corrosive dart are the only non-kinetic things you will see. Defensive mitigation CD's on assassins/shadows, knights/warriors could stand to get some attention in mitigating operative tech "melee" attacks.

 

Thats it, I don't like the changes, they seem knee jerk, heavy handed and not aimed at fixing the real issues that are making operatives OP. I agree that operative opener dmg is to high on all targets and our sustained dmg is to hard to mitigate with defensive CDs.

 

I will trade operative nerfs for auto-facing in pvp or positional attacks or cutting the speed of backpedaling in half.

 

quote me if you are feeling nifty about my suggestions, I willl still be out playing most of you after my nerf . Keep standing in my orbital and keep spamming grav round even after I interupt and keep immune'ing my back stab with backpedal and auto-facing. I will find a way to beat you without needing to come to the forum.

 

PST me if you have anything to add say. Whats that poem about the German's coming for everyone but you don't say anything because they are not coming for you...

[mikepapz]

Battle-master operative point of view, we need nerfs and these are the things I can abuse.

 

Hidden Strike needs a CD, things I can abuse with hidden strike; I can open on you for 3-5k (crits are to high non crits are fine) depending on armor then cloaking screen and re-open for another 3-5k w/ crit plus acid blade dot most people are to low at that point to fight back, I can do this in the middle of your team in what looks like 1 GCD, no one can react to that.

 

-Snip-

 

 

Edit: Never mind actually. I should have read the rest of your post!

 

A 6 second cooldown on Hidden Strike actually sounds reasonable.

Edited January 25, 2012 by mikepapz

[Wickedluck]

The simple solutiion that i see that will make everyone happy is make jarring strike a 1 point skill that is the exact same as dibilitate that can only be use in stealth,put hidden strike on a 9 sec. cd,reduce damage of hidden strike by a solid number not % say 500 more damage then backstab then make culling increase damage of shiv and lacerate on poison targets 3% per point with 4 points in the tree .I also think a 31 point skill like acid blade should at least be equal to the mercs lvl 12 skill high velocity chamber which is 35% armor penetration it is after all a lvl 41 skill.These changes here will keep the concealment op viable in pve and pvp Edited January 25, 2012 by Wickedluck

[carbocat]

Battle-master operative point of view, we need nerfs and these are the things I can abuse.

 

Hidden Strike needs a CD, things I can abuse with hidden strike; I can open on you for 3-5k (crits are to high non crits are fine) depending on armor then cloaking screen and re-open for another 3-5k w/ crit plus acid blade dot most people are to low at that point to fight back, I can do this in the middle of your team in what looks like 1 GCD, no one can react to that.

 

Hidden Strike needs a CD, I can go into a 3v1 where they have 1 or more weakened low health team mates open with HS on low health target and score a kill before team can react and infiltrate back into stealth and open on next low health target with HS score kill before other team mates put me in combat and re-stealth open again with HS. I DO THIS A LOT. I am highly skilled at pvp and other high skill players can't defend against this because they have no chance to react.

 

HS-dead player-infiltrate-HS-dead player-Stealth-HS

 

Low Health targets are to vulnerable to HS. There is no defending against an operative who opens from stealth when you are already low, low health targets should be an easy kill for anyone who finds them, not a free one.

 

Things I think need to be changed and things I think should stay the same:

 

Give Hidden Strike a CD doesn't need to be long 6 secs would make a world of difference.

 

Take away Hidden strikes high crit multiplier when attacking targets below 90% Health, as to gimp our ability to jump from target to target when there are players at low health but keeping our ability to open on players when a fight starts, not shark around collecting free kills after the fights over.

 

The Knockdown is fine, jarring strike FILLS THE RESOLVE BAR, after we open on a fresh high health target the cc is over for 8? seconds, take that free un-cc'able time to realize how fragile operatives are. I would go so far as to be fine with our knockdown only effecting targets above 90%, wouldn't that be something, a fair damaging opener that doesn't knockdown if have already been fighting. maybe something in that area make it a 1.5 when target is below 90%.

 

20% base dmg reduction on Hidden Strike will be fine FOR NOW (after players get their gear it will be a 3 second knockdown not much else), from experience my Hidden Strike with 640 expertise is just breaking Sage/Sorc shield of equal gear, which then CC me after the shield is broken, so I cc sorc as I open sorc CC's me and any others in the area just by having shield on then its any mans fight. PRO TIP in a 1v1 the Sorc should be the winner.

 

1.5 second knockdown is not needed and when/if this change goes live will not be spec'ed into. Our opener does to much dmg RATE NOW (people are gearing) so a 20% nerf to HS and add in a CD so Operatives can't double tap HS back to back will allow players to be much healthy after an opener.

 

50% armor pen down to 30% is not needed, this will hurt PvE operatives and hurt operative abilities to do anything to all armor types in PvP. Operatives are 90% kinetic dmg acid blade dot and corrosive dart are the only non-kinetic things you will see. Defensive mitigation CD's on assassins/shadows, knights/warriors could stand to get some attention in mitigating operative tech "melee" attacks.

 

Thats it, I don't like the changes, they seem knee jerk, heavy handed and not aimed at fixing the real issues that are making operatives OP. I agree that operative opener dmg is to high on all targets and our sustained dmg is to hard to mitigate with defensive CDs.

 

I will trade operative nerfs for auto-facing in pvp or positional attacks or cutting the speed of backpedaling in half.

 

quote me if you are feeling nifty about my suggestions, I willl still be out playing most of you after my nerf . Keep standing in my orbital and keep spamming grav round even after I interupt and keep immune'ing my back stab with backpedal and auto-facing. I will find a way to beat you without needing to come to the forum.

 

PST me if you have anything to add say. Whats that poem about the German's coming for everyone but you don't say anything because they are not coming for you...

 

Good points. But the hidden strike dmg was needed, but why can`t they just take away some crit dmg? Jarring strike is a good ability, 1.5 sec will make it pretty useless.

 

Take away dmg from backstabb, hidden strike, and let jarring strike be 3 sec!

 

If 1.5 sec still fills the resolve bar, then i dont have anything more to say but: bioware fail hard.

[gouak]

It is funny how every single OP hater needs to bring back situations like 1v1 or low HP targets.

 

Guess what? Stealth characters have always been king of 1v1 and fast on low HP surprise kills.

 

When I say high end pvp, I meant we have twenty premade 4s going on a tournament in the FFA pit/arena in tatooine. It's a really cool event and did attract some really good players from both sides of the force.

 

Let me say that a team with triple AOE burst spec'd guardians and sentinels, will putt some serious pressure on the healer with some heavy defenses options.

 

In group configuration, again not talking about PUG, if someone dies from a ambush opener, you are doing something terribly wrong.

 

I still play with a mix of battlemaster and rakata pve gear for the extra set bonus. That puts me around 18k5 HP fully class buffed . There is no way in the world my team mates will let that much health vanish before we start putting out some control.

 

Three solutions:

- bubble (since half the player base is going inquisitor or sage that should be easy, /joke)

- guard 3/8 ACs can do that even dps spec'd

- taunt see just above

 

Extra solution: reactive team mates .

 

A guarded target with a taunt on you will take 80% less damage. Try going through even a bubble with that.

 

And as far as taunt goes, you can be taunted by AOE taunts under stealth. And a guarded squishy will have a guarding friend sticking along.

 

Some will say that they want to be able to group with any class and be competitive. Guess what that cannot happen. Every mmo has some type of groupe that will make you competitive or not.

 

Learn to pace a fight and not rush heads down into it. Could save your life

Edited January 25, 2012 by gouak

[NightHawke]

If Scoundrels are overpowered and broken, cause they can kill anyone in 5 seconds, what does that make the sorcerer who can not only survive the alpha strike, but turn around and be completely effective against that same scoundrel?

 

Like my long sentence structure?

[Bluetickone]

basically youre saying you need the perfect pvp team with everyone constantly on the lookout for op openers (and apparently not trying to complete any WZ obectives) to counter 1 class.....

 

Are you serious?

 

[Jengkiarah]

Battlemaster Sorcerer with 13/14 Battlemaster gear. Veteran MMO player. Despite my good gear and 12% expertise, it's true that concealment Operatives with mostly champion gear can burst me down within 5-6 seconds from stealth. Happens frequently, even after the stim changes. This is not a learn to play issue, but rather a case of poor game design, which everyone who PvP's a good amount knows well. There is no sense arguing against readjustment of the Operative's burst at this point in the game. Change needs to happen.

 

The only way I can survive a geared Operative that jumps me from stealth is if I happen to be standing near a ledge and I'm able to use overload just before death to blast the Operative to a lower level. Then I must run away, try to heal up, and hope the Operative decides to find another more convenient target. While I'm sure that Operatives currently love the ability to single target kill most anyone they want 1 v 1, this sort of unbalance does not sit well with other players.

 

Rather than trying to defend such an over-powered class, it would be much more constructive to suggest changes that you feel brings Operatives back in line with other players. Some posters have been doing this and I applaud them.

[Reldan]

The simple fix would be to:

 

1) Make Meticulously Kept Blades (+30% crit damage) not affect HS or have a decreased effect on HS (+15% instead?)

2) Put HS on a cooldown so it can't be reused multiple times in the opener

 

Most of the insane burst rotations that I don't think any Operative disagrees are over-the-top involve what happens when you crit HS multiple times within a couple seconds. HS does obscene damage when it crits because between Surge and MKB your crit multiplier is 120-130% for that one attack, and the second one gets the Acid Blade AP buff from the first one, making it do even more.

 

That's where you're seeing 11k burst in the span of one GCD - follow that up with a Backstab and then a Lacerate and it's good night to your target (if you got 3 out of 4 crits). Take that second HS out of the rotation and the problem becomes mostly solved and Cloaking Screen goes back to what it's supposed to be for - an escape instead of a 6-7k bonus attack.

 

Also you're not doing multiple HS in one combat in PvE, so this change ONLY impacts PvP which is the only place this is a problem in the first place. Double win.

 

Honestly if you decrease the base damage by 20% you're still going to see some Ops abuse the lack of a cooldown and it's just going to be a 9k burst in 1.5s instead of 11k. Wanna bet people still complain?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Reldan

[eromen]

In high end pvp 4v4s, we certainly do not have the Overpowerness everyone is claiming to see.

 

Full geared with 140lv gear, I never crit a fully geared battlemaster for more than 5k3.

That is in a perfect situation with no guard, no taunts.

 

We have the least survival tools for group pvp (single quite strong if used correctly), and suffer ALOT from being focused. Vanish might seem OP for most people but if you find yourself against a team putting a lot of pressure on your team, you are forcing your teammates into a 4v3 situation until your are fit again for battle duty.

 

Find yourselves a good tank or off-tank, and some reactive DDs and healers.

I roll with a healer sage, a dps vanguard using defensive stance, a AOE spec'd sentinel and myself, a burst scoundrel.

We never, ever die from a scoundrel/op initial burst. 1.5 sec is all it takes us to turn around a cc the hell out of one. He Is lucky if he can get two shots in a row. Not to mention we don't have any gap closer (plz don't say vanish, or you just lost your main escape from jail card to run back)

 

I will try to post some fraps from our training and some footage of thursdays pvp tournament on European star map server.

 

We need our current burst capabilities to be competitive high end because of all the damage mitigation going on. (yes there is some mitigation going on! If you can't see it, change partners!)

 

Not to mention our out of combat stealth mezz applies a full resolve bar, not the assassin one.

 

Don't ruin it just for some unstuff lowbies crying for dying in PUGs.

 

Nice post,and really,all this crap about ops/scoundels is a LIE.

[Izumal]

The simple fix would be to:

 

1) Make Meticulously Kept Blades (+30% crit damage) not affect HS or have a decreased effect on HS (+15% instead?)

2) Put HS on a cooldown so it can't be reused multiple times in the opener

 

Most of the insane burst rotations that I don't think any Operative disagrees are over-the-top involve what happens when you crit HS multiple times within a couple seconds. HS does obscene damage when it crits because between Surge and MKB your crit multiplier is 120-130% for that one attack, and the second one gets the Acid Blade AP buff from the first one, making it do even more.

 

That's where you're seeing 11k burst in the span of one GCD - follow that up with a Backstab and then a Lacerate and it's good night to your target (if you got 3 out of 4 crits). Take that second HS out of the rotation and the problem becomes mostly solved and Cloaking Screen goes back to what it's supposed to be for - an escape instead of a 6-7k bonus attack.

 

Also you're not doing multiple HS in one combat in PvE, so this change ONLY impacts PvP which is the only place this is a problem in the first place. Double win.

 

Honestly if you decrease the base damage by 20% you're still going to see some Ops abuse the lack of a cooldown and it's just going to be a 9k burst in 1.5s instead of 11k. Wanna bet people still complain?

 

/signed please devs take a look at this option - Well said Reldan

[NightHawke]

Honestly, I play a good amount of time. I havent hit /played in a while, but I am sure I would see like 5 days or something like that at least.

 

I hit 46 last night. 46. The rest of my guild has 50s already. We aren't playing 24/7 either, as we have real lives. Well most of us anyways.

 

We have about 75 members, a couple of alts (for the new 50s) and there are 4 Scoundrels total in the guild. 4. Yes, 4. The next highest is level 20.

 

The problem is, these guys playing Trooper, Shadow/Sage and even Knights and of course gunslingers, the game PvE is so much faster paced, and the PvP is epically quick for them. XP just seems to ooze from their class quests and they kill groups much faster than the scoundrel.

 

I dont get my defensive toys until the 30s. The final offensive toys until 40 and the most fun toy until 48.

 

Everyone else gets their before they are 20. Leveling the scoundrel is much much more involved. I do not think people realize this.

 

So when I unload a full attack sequence of about 8-12 abilities in a 15 second combat sequence to kill someone, I am not sure people appreciate how satisfying this is. If I was any other class, I would be 50 by now. Easy. The scoundrel IS a PvP class. He is the scout, he is the distraction, he splits enemy forces up, he angers them so much, 10 people WILL abandon a point they are guarding just to kill him even if he runs across the entire map.

 

Truth. Anyone else playing a Scoundrel/Operative can testify to this. Devs need to play the Scoundrel from 1-50 doing pvp without any help with ~ +addcredits 1billion or any other help. Then they will understand.

[Sanctioned]

Hidden Strike needs a CD, I can go into a 3v1 where they have 1 or more weakened low health team mates open with HS on low health target and score a kill before team can react and infiltrate back into stealth and open on next low health target with HS score kill before other team mates put me in combat and re-stealth open again with HS. I DO THIS A LOT. I am highly skilled at pvp and other high skill players can't defend against this because they have no chance to react.

 

HS-dead player-infiltrate-HS-dead player-Stealth-HS

 

Low Health targets are to vulnerable to HS. There is no defending against an operative who opens from stealth when you are already low, low health targets should be an easy kill for anyone who finds them, not a free one.

 

First off I want to say I agree with you for the most part. My stance is just 1 of the nerfs would have brought us down enough.

 

The 3vs1 thing and low-health ganking thing you mentioned...If you think about it objectively, Ops have no particular advantage over any other class that stumbled on the same situation you described. When you do as described, you personally played the scenario and to the Ops' advantages and disadvantages like a certified PRO, but that doesn't mean Ops wiped them better than another class could have. Other classes wouldn't be required to stealth to pull off the same thing you described.

 

2nd, I find it hard to believe your 3vs1 scenario was against "high-skilled" players. I can obliterate a low-health player, any jackhole can, when I do that, I usually have a few moments before I can use non-combat stealth again. If you're fighting 3 people, and the two survivors seriously can't think of nothing to do during those moments in which I can't stealth, they are NOT "high-skilled" players. Players unaware of your presence because they're too busy elsewhere is NOT an Ops/Scoundrel ability. It's a matter of player skill; both the unattentive players and your skill of keeping low-key.

Even if you used your combat cloak in your 3vs1 scenario so you can HS someone else, that's not only taking a significant risk, but if you were playing against high skilled players, you would guaranteed not kill the 3rd guy. Against baddies, yes you would kill the 3rd guy.

 

So my point is, no you weren't playing against high skilled players. Rank, level, and gear doesn't require skill to get - they just require points that you get even if you lose.

 

If the players you went against are known to be good players, then using an example of when you were at the peak of your game while they were not is not an accurate medium for class comparison.

 

^ I've also done the 3vs thing many times. I certainly feel overpowered when I do that successfully, but realize I'm not when a BH or Sorc could've wiped them standing still without having to be crafty and sneak around and restealth and basically work my class and abilities.

 

I've also had to sit out in games when the opposing team were full of skilled players who had a clue of how to combat Ops/Scoundrels. Soon as I opened, teammates would come out of nowhere and harpoon me, force push me, choke me, taunt me, dot me, aoe me, stun me, and I have no choice but to die. Basically - a team of players who know how to play in groups, watch out for each other, and rarely break away from the packs.

 

 

On other news, as soon as a BH/Trooper is tracer/graving me, I know I have a very short amount of time to LOS him, or combat stealth (if not sticky grenaded/dot'd), or die (walking 20 meters to interrupt him is rarely an option, and rarely a better one than the two I mentioned).

[prochuvi]

LOOOOOOOL first time that i heard that OP are good because if u have guard mroe buble more taunt tehy cant kill you on 4-6 second.

ah ok then they are ok......lol good joke dude,they are broken and they are going to be nerfed good luck )

[Silverspar]

everyone with half a brain stem knows that scoundrel/op isnt broken, its the mouth breathers that think they should be able to stand in 1 spot spamming force lightning that dont get it.

 

I love the mouth breathers who keep making up false info. BioWare has metrics, things they can see where things are out of whack. It's baddies who keep trying to defend this class, baddies who keep trying to find every excuse they can for why something is happening, when they know they are not balanced. If you think BioWare knee jerked this when they have months of metrics data to show them exactly what's going on, then I want to sell you a bridge, cheap.

[NightHawke]

I love the mouth breathers who keep making up false info. BioWare has metrics, things they can see where things are out of whack. It's baddies who keep trying to defend this class, baddies who keep trying to find every excuse they can for why something is happening, when they know they are not balanced. If you think BioWare knee jerked this when they have months of metrics data to show them exactly what's going on, then I want to sell you a bridge, cheap.

 

LOL one word for you. Sorcerer.

 

I am not a "baddie" or cheater or exploiter.

 

I like a challenging class to play and this class is not for everyone. It takes a lot of skill to pull off a kill that does not "one shot" someone. Sure, if you use your alpha strike on someone way lower level than you , they will die quickly, even before getting up.

 

But if you do your alpha strike and the first hit does only 900 damage on them.... well my friend, you got a fight on your hands. If you can win that fight by yourself, then you are good at your abilities and class. If not, well, maybe you had some bad luck, the other guy was better, or well, you just are not that good.

 

 

 

If I played something like a Sorcerer (which I started up) utilizing those same skills, you turn into something halfway decent. Like topping the damage/heal charts at level 10-14 (he is only 14 right now).

 

But just because you get owned by a scoundrel, does not mean they are overpowered, or they are better than you. It just means you dont have all your defensive tools, or you aren't using your class abilities correctly.

 

After I got my shield at level 14 on my sorcerer, scoundrels do NOT take me out with me still on the ground. Even the 40+ ones with Flechette round. And I dont have all my tools yet.

[prochuvi]

op have 100 % win ratio on 1vs1,if u cant do it learn to play or get gear u are going to be nerfed period Edited January 25, 2012 by prochuvi

[Silverspar]

LOL one word for you. Sorcerer.

One word for you then; baddie. If you have a hard time with sorcerers, you are doing something wrong. The only time I lose to sorcerers is when I am either low on health to begin with, or they cry for their team to come save them before I clean the floor with them.

 

I like a challenging class to play and this class is not for everyone.

If you liked playing a challenging class, you would have rolled a marauder or sentinel, not the easiest mode class int he game. And trying to claim that Scoundrel/Operative at this stage of the game isn't easy mode is just lying to yourself as well as everyone else. Which further cements the baddie belief.

 

 

 

If I played something like a Sorcerer (which I started up) utilizing those same skills, you turn into something halfway decent. Like topping the damage/heal charts at level 10-14 (he is only 14 right now).

Topping damage charts is not hard to do with any class that has AE. This argument doesn't help you at all. Healing charts, that isn't helping you either because only a baddie even ignores a sorcerer, who again, are not hard to take down if you actually learned to play.

 

But just because you get owned by a scoundrel, does not mean they are overpowered, or they are better than you. It just means you dont have all your defensive tools, or you aren't using your class abilities correctly.

There is a difference between getting owned and not being able to do anything to prevent being owned. When you are in heavy armor even, and watching your life bleed out and you can't even stop it, there is a problem. This isn't a case of being bad, this is a case of a class being imbalanced. Try all you want, and my clothy class dies before she even has a chance to react and this isn't something that is only once in a while. So please, quit lying about how your class is fine.

 

After I got my shield at level 14 on my sorcerer, scoundrels do NOT take me out with me still on the ground. Even the 40+ ones with Flechette round. And I dont have all my tools yet.

 

Not only are you lying at this point, you are making up bull. I murder the crap out of sorcerers on my shadow, and I have the poor man's version of what an OP can do. So please, stop trying to make up these bold faced lies about how you were doing this or that as a sorcerer.

[killercat]

op have 100 % win ratio on 1vs1,if u cant do it learn to play or get gear u are going to be nerfed period

 

power techs do too

[NightHawke]

One word for you then; baddie. If you have a hard time with sorcerers, you are doing something wrong. The only time I lose to sorcerers is when I am either low on health to begin with, or they cry for their team to come save them before I clean the floor with them.

 

If you liked playing a challenging class, you would have rolled a marauder or sentinel, not the easiest mode class int he game. And trying to claim that Scoundrel/Operative at this stage of the game isn't easy mode is just lying to yourself as well as everyone else. Which further cements the baddie belief.

 

 

 

Topping damage charts is not hard to do with any class that has AE. This argument doesn't help you at all. Healing charts, that isn't helping you either because only a baddie even ignores a sorcerer, who again, are not hard to take down if you actually learned to play.

 

There is a difference between getting owned and not being able to do anything to prevent being owned. When you are in heavy armor even, and watching your life bleed out and you can't even stop it, there is a problem. This isn't a case of being bad, this is a case of a class being imbalanced. Try all you want, and my clothy class dies before she even has a chance to react and this isn't something that is only once in a while. So please, quit lying about how your class is fine.

 

 

 

Not only are you lying at this point, you are making up bull. I murder the crap out of sorcerers on my shadow, and I have the poor man's version of what an OP can do. So please, stop trying to make up these bold faced lies about how you were doing this or that as a sorcerer.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

What is AE? Area of Effect? You dont have AoE at level 14 for one.

 

Two, I do not have trouble with Sorcerers. But if they know their abilities they can have a shot at killing the Scoundrel.

 

Shadows are OP compared to scoundrels. You have all the defensive capability, plus the damage and you have stealth.

 

Calling me a liar on the web is generally accepted, as I guarantee you wouldn't even think about it if you were in my face, so please, do not accuse me of being a liar. Come find me Jung Ma and we can talk and I can show you what I do on my scoundrel.

 

Focus Fire kills everyone except a few classes. For me, I die almost instantly to focus fire.

 

 

Lastly, I DO know what I am talking about, or I wouldnt be talking about it.