Zilkin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) "This is how you should think and act." Or I could just make up my own mind and do the things I like. Edited January 25, 2012 by Zilkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 First of all, lumping everyone who plays Sith into one group as if they're some sort of collective consciousness is downright retarded. Secondly, was it the players that made Sith stories, animations, gear and environments more interesting? Was it the players that created significant differences in the mirror classes? Lets Blame George Lucas if you do not want to blame the players. He made great lore (in movies and books) and in the end people feel in love with the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintagel Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 tbh as a long time PvPer in many games I am totally guilty of complaining constantly about balance be it class/faction/environment ect. When the devs do try and do something to make it balanced again, the ifrst thing I'm looking for is a loophole/bad design I can use to make it unbalanced again(In my favor ofc). I think after a while the devs just give up and who can blame them. Even if you created PvP which was based on one template class for all sides no upgrades, just one skill set for all, you still have ppl complianing that it's not balanced because X player has more time to play. They can balance the game as much as they like, but they can't balance the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaguiesTheWise Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Meh may be imbalanced but I'm guessing ik which faction wins in the end. Mace Windu, "we thought the sith to be extinct for centuries." Edited January 25, 2012 by PlaguiesTheWise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The ignorance in this thread is quite astounding. How on earth can you blame the entire player base for a design decision made by the game's developers? It seems errenous to me to claim that the game developers made a single design decision that somehow lead to faction imbalance. For some reason, people prefer the Sith Empire. But there is a sum of design elements that influence this. And identifying all of these and changing all of these seems difficult and time-consuming to me. Which doesn't imply it can't be done, but it indicates it will take time. In the end, looking for "blame" is pointless. The question is more - how can it be changed? Can it even be changed? But what if there is nothing to change, if the fundamental issue is - if people get the chance to roleplay as someone else than them, they like to be someone very different from their true self - and a member of the Sith Empire sounds like the best way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I'll bite... Say I create a house with two rooms, but you can only enter one. In one room is a boring dude with a brown robe who will offer to teach you to meditate. In the other room is a bad***** with a sweet black robe who offers to teach you the secret of power. Which room do you choose? In a 2 faction game, if one side is way more attractive to players than the other...guess where they will go? I'll go medidate, thank you very much. Master Yoda wins over any "******" anyday, not to mention I'll be treated fairly at all times. Secondly, was it the players that made Sith stories, animations, gear and environments more interesting? Except it's... Not? Do you guys even know Star Wars? It's not like Bioware could go and **** everything up, it's a license and they can't screw it up because teenagers want to be genocidal Jedi. The Jedi Knight and Trooper storyline are pretty good so far(didn't finish trooper though just part of act I) for me, Sith Warrior is also good and I hear the agent's excellent. Overall it's all quality writing as far as I get it. Some people clearly just don't appreciate the license and want to play the latest mmo, and we know that "LEZ BE EVUL N LEET" is a trend since Blood Elves inflated the horde. Changing the design? What can they change exactly? Put rancor claws on Trooper armour? Edited January 25, 2012 by Lightmaguz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerda Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'll bite... Say I create a house with two rooms, but you can only enter one. In one room is a boring dude with a brown robe who will offer to teach you to meditate. In the other room is a bad***** with a sweet black robe who offers to teach you the secret of power. Which room do you choose? In a 2 faction game, if one side is way more attractive to players than the other...guess where they will go? Sums it up pretty much. They also seemed to do far more clips PR releases involving the Imperial/Empire side. They made it all look very attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It seems errenous to me to claim that the game developers made a single design decision that somehow lead to faction imbalance. For some reason, people prefer the Sith Empire. But there is a sum of design elements that influence this. And identifying all of these and changing all of these seems difficult and time-consuming to me. Which doesn't imply it can't be done, but it indicates it will take time. In the end, looking for "blame" is pointless. The question is more - how can it be changed? Can it even be changed? But what if there is nothing to change, if the fundamental issue is - if people get the chance to roleplay as someone else than them, they like to be someone very different from their true self - and a member of the Sith Empire sounds like the best way to do it. At some point during the development of a multiplayer game with pvp gameplay there would have been a discussion and design decision to determine any factors that might cause the factions to become unbalanced and how to combat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightmaguz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 People blamed the same back in Warhammer online, omg pr is all about chaos attacking, when the hell does the "good" side start a war anyway? Of course the damn sith are going to start the war! People usually forget the Jedi won though lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truga Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 How exactly are Empire storylines more interesting? If you know anything about the Sith, you know what's coming 2 hours into the game, many bullies trying to backstab you, then crying for mercy. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I have a Sith Inquisitor around level 25-ish. I have a Jedi Consular around level 25-ish. My main's a smuggler. I noticed on my Sith Sorceress that the flashy lightning was astonishingly beautiful than... pebbles. I think, for me, that was the problem. Instead of a large, surging bolting of twitching lighting, I lurch up a hand full of pebbles and toss them at people for a few seconds. Albeit, I personally found the black robes and lightning repetitive . . . do you see my point? The animations are not on par with each other when held side by side. I'm not sure if it's just your server or mine but I did a /who of all the Sith and all the Jedi: Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior held familiar numbers with the Sith winning by about 60. Considering the numbers were towards 600-something, that's not so bad. 10%? I did the same for Consular and Inquisitor and a vast majority more played Sith Inquisitor whilst Assassin held the same number count as Sage and Shadow. My inkling is that the animations and general show of the class, not the armour, nor the class quest, is to "blame" here. (If we want to pin the word blame on anything.) An interesting solution would be to adjust the animations of Jedi Consular to fit with the show of Sith Inquisitor. But how can you make that an option for those that like to toss pebbles at people? It's a tricky thing and I'm interested to see how the dev team issue this. Edited January 25, 2012 by Triss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiriensoul Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 WoW has the same issue, Warhammer online also, i'm sure aion had it too, right? Everyone think its cool going "evil", because they are soft in real life? I always pick the Soft side, because i am bad *** in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JharrDane Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I personally do not find the Imps to be all that cool. Sure they have some more racial variety and they wear black and red and not brown but I still dont see the appeal. Maybe it is just that I'm not into playing sadistic homicidal maniacs in general. I have played empire characters and even the light side options can be down right immoral. Also I dont know about anyone else but I hate almost every imp npc I've ever ran into on imp and rep characters. They're either totally insane or pretentious to the point that I want to punch them in the throat. That is not to say that I don't enjoy the story lines and skirt around the moral issues, however being a cold blooded murderer isn't exactly my Star Wars fantasy. The issue with the fact that some imp mirrors have a clear advantage needs to be addressed immediately without question. Again however the player base could make a decision to play the character they want rather than being so obsessed with playing the most rediculously optimal character that they can't stand the fact that the sith juggernauts slow is longer than their gaurdian's. It is annoying I agree but hardly the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiJonPed Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 lol wut? "Hi, welcome to SW:ToR. Please feel to choose any server and have a good time baby! SELECTS SERVER Sorry you cannot play with your friends on that server due to player made faction inbalance" Yesss, that's going to work well isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusiferz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 BioWare could of or can, just implement a faction cap on high populated servers, Ive seen it done before, as well as offering bonuses to players for joining a low population faction. That The customer is always right on the other hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelzan Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 So the game I did not make has a problem and it's my fault? I didn't make the game, you didn't make the game. I'm pretty sure I know who did make the game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabersAtDawn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 There will be balance in the force, eventually the weak willed with join the Republic and only the true Sith will remain. Glory to the Empire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valceanu Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 As is the case with many MMO's one side attracts more of our youths. In this case twas the empire which honestly i wasnt surprised to see. For the younger generations its "cool" to be bad and such.Also note the emo generation - black robes and make-up. Being a good guy is boring according to them. Personally i cant see myself playing a sith. Being evil foe evil's sake is just stupid if you ask me. Besides the fact that they are racist pigs their ideology seems to lean towards communism. As i live in an eastern european state i can say weve been there and its not fun so "thanks but no thanks". Making a darkside choice is fine when it makes sense but slaughtering a village of people just for the sake of it?!?!...meh. I play republic and even though my smuggler it slightly dark sided he is so in a "the ends justify the means" sort of way while still fighting for the grater good. As for the animations are gear. That is all subjective. Ive seen people complain about the pebbles of the consular but personally i prefer that to the lightning which IMHO is getting really old... just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinkitink Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) No maybe it's YOUR fault. I rolled republic. It's not my fault most everyone else rolled Imperial. Maybe you mean EVERYONE should have rolled Imperial then there would be no faction imbalance? Then it'd be my fault. It's really hilarious you think your poorly thought out post/accusation will quell any kind of argument when it's probably the dumbest argument against it I've read. You think way too highly of yourself. Edited January 25, 2012 by Rinkitink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinkitink Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) WoW has the same issue, Warhammer online also, i'm sure aion had it too, right? Everyone think its cool going "evil", because they are soft in real life? I always pick the Soft side, because i am bad *** in real life The dark side is just more interesting in general. The gear is WAY more flashy. That's not opinion, it just is, whether flashy is good or not is up opinion, but to most people, it is. Even as a jedi there's no incentive to go light side. You go dark side you get a cool looking effect on your character. You go light side.. nothing. Edited January 25, 2012 by Rinkitink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollcageuk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 WoW has the same issue, Warhammer online also, i'm sure aion had it too, right? Everyone think its cool going "evil", because they are soft in real life? I always pick the Soft side, because i am bad *** in real life WOW vanilla upto and including BC had a major imbalance in favour of Alliance. In my experience these things come and go but they usually end up evening up in the end. As the imps get fed up with the fact the kids all play imps and they are playing Hutball all the time, they will swap over and bring more balance. This will happen even more if BW actually create a decent AV style proper fight with lots of players. That had a major effect in WOW. Alliance players were waiting 3-4 hours for an AV game, whereas Horder got straight in. The same will happen here. To the OP, yes the players have only themselves to blame, but BW didn't help by making only 1 cool Republic(smuggler) character in the trailers but loads of cool Imps. and i agree that the models/gear etc are better for Imps too. But i will say the smuggler story line is cool, so not so sure about the stories being better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash_Fiss Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I would never choose side out of which has more or less, I'll simply choose whatever I feel like, just like everybody else has the right to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niblix Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I fail to see how server imbalance is the playerbase's fault. I have a 50 Jedi Guardian and a 50 Sith Sorcerer and I can honestly say the Empire side is a hell of a lot more polished than the Republic side. My playthrough of my Jedi Guardian was 'ok', I say ok because it was my first character and it was all new. My playthrough of my Sith Sorcerer was a totally different experience, the game seemed more 'complete'. It is as though they worked hard and long on the Empire side and then thought... "Damn, we forgot about the Republic side. Quick throw something together!". I feel the same way about a lot of the planets too, some feel rushed and poorly designed while others seem better designed and complete. You can't blame the playerbase for wanting a better experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotaka Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm enjoying the Republic, but that enjoyment factor is purely subjective. It helps I'm on an RP server, so I have to deal with a Sith telling my padawan every 5 seconds, 'Give in to the hatred!' etc etc. @_@ At least in BattleGrounds, my Republic side has been steamrolling the Sith. <3 Even if we're outnumbered, we still rock it quite often in the 10-49 brackets. The 50 will be interesting to see, too. Last night, we had started on Defense. The game glitched and didn't let anyone through the door at the start, so the Sith swarmed the right door and got a free breach. After that, we locked them down for the rest of the game, prevented them from getting past Door #2, and then on offense, demolished them completely and got the datacore. xD Sith can keep their numbers. Seems they're getting the **** players on my server, so I'm happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I dont see why people complain so much , even if BW add to the republic nice thing like the new races and stuff it will take months if not more to balance this again. People create mains , and if these mains are on the empire side atm , then the best the rep side is getting now is a bunch of under power alts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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