Roleplaying

[RamathRS]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted this point to be seen and not lost in a larger post.

 

I forgot to mention in my original post, that while I did raise an eyebrow at the content of their roleplaying, I was quite amazed at their ability to type in a grammatically sound manner. Their punctuation and capitalization was quite impressive for the rate at which they were going.

[Stormrazor]

Did you even READ the original post? What part of this did you not understand?:

 

Where, in any of the original post did you hear me say that Roleplaying is for loosers? My question was not why are people roleplaying, period, but why it is the most common go-to theme?

 

Learn to read, and more importantly comprehend, before you attempt to contribute.

 

Exactly where in my post did I accuse you of saying Roleplaying is for losers? You say I should learn to read? Pot/Kettle.

 

I responded to your apparent dislike of "emo twilight inspired roleplay". Your post came across as judgmental and not as a serious attempt to really understand it. I'm not a fan of angsty RP, but I could really care less HOW others RP. My suggestion was to just avoid those that RP in a way you don't like.

 

If you are really trying to analyze it, you could have 1) asked your question more politely, and 2) not posted it in general where the trolls live and breed.

[Maidel]

I think that might be a little harsh... many folk go through phases, with their first characters taking a lot of inspiration from favourite stories or being simplistic or one-dimensional or one-note. As time goes on, folk tend to get a better feel for the nuances.

 

It's not harsh, your post even agrees with me. Most people really suck at being something they aren't. Even online and annonomous.

Just because someone is new at something doesn't mean they can't be really bad at it. I'm certain sir chris hoy fell off his kiddie bike when he first started riding, he didn't jump on a bike and immediately win 4 Olympic gold medals.

 

People shouldn't be discouraged from roleplaying at all, but it really makes me cringe when people try to rp, and do it by either playing the complete opposite of themselves (generally some sadomasochistic serial butcher - which is just playing themselves but doing exactly the opposite) or they play themselves, but immediately 'act up' and insist on talking just like a film/tv character.

 

Actually, add to that the fact that when new people rp they seem to talk incessantly irrelavent of anything thats going on as if they are writing a book!

 

Sorry. Just irks me.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Maidel

[MysticTrunks]

I've been RPing for a long time and yes, those overly conflicted characters are rampant. Especially with new RPers because they're learning.

 

RPing is not to much different than writing an ongoing story that shares idea's with other people. Not everyone is a good writer, some are down right terrible, but are willing to learn and improve. Not everyone has a vivid and active imagination and just regurgitate things they've seen in movies, TV shows and (More often than not) Anime.

 

Is any of this bad? Nah, not really, but if you're a decent writer, imaginative and you've been doing this for a long time, it's part of your role to help guide newbies and help them out. If they make lore mistakes, kindly correct them if you know differently. Or if, like in SWTOR, four smugglers in your guild ALL happened to have their ships stolen point out that you don't HAVE to follow the story if you don't want too in the game, and if they choose to anyway, just roll with it.

 

It's like Thomas Jefferson said, "If it does not break my leg, nor pick my pocket. It is no concern to me." Since RP can't harm you or steal from you, why get bent out of shape over it?

 

Then there's always the fact that some people just like the attention playing EMO gets them, but that's always short lived as people grow bored with it constantly and eventually, they evolve to more complex characters. This can take months and years though and if they stick with it, it's very rewarding and you and they can make good friends. (Or enemies)

 

So. That's my view anyway.

 

EDIT: Oh, and I never thought the OP was trolling. Way to much thought and time in the thread for a troll and it was an easily honest question.

Edited January 25, 2012 by MysticTrunks

[sosolidshoe]

@OP: probably because it is easier to create over the top caricatures of real people than more honest portrayals of human beings.

 

That and a lot of people probably use RP as a way to explore more dramatic extremes, same as we find in acting in movies and theater.

 

As an RPer myself, I will somewhat agree with the OP that a lot of times the RP I've witnessed in quite a few games has given me a chuckle...you do tend to see a lot of really out there, soap opera type weirdness, or stilted attempts to sound incredibly literate which come off as pompous and ridiculous.

 

The bottom line is though that at least people are being creative and having fun, no matter how bad the RP, I think it is a more human activity than chasing gear and bragging about how good you are at a video game.

 

Of course, there are those of us who simply are incredibly literate, witty, urbane; you know, generally just a better class of person.

 

 

 

As far as this trend, I've not seen it myself, but the way things stand you're quite lucky to have run across public RP at all.

 

I suspect that there are two reasons one might see people RP'ing an "emo Jedi", the first being that they genuinely enjoy the archetype and wish to play one of their character in that role, and the other is that it's relatable. We've all felt depressed(in the non-clinical sense) at some point in our lives, we've all occasionally had a wee mope around, and when you're creating a character a lot of people will gravitate towards characteristics which they can personally relate to. It's difficult to portray emotional states or personality types with which we have no personal affinity, otherwise actors wouldn't get payed as much as they do

Edited January 25, 2012 by sosolidshoe

[Kamikazii]

Full disclosure: I read the first post and only skimmed the first page of responses.

 

Here's what I assume you've been told and so I'll skip. The; It's a RP server, if you don't like it ****. The; Moody teenager is moody. The; u iz Trull lulz.

 

To be perfectly honest, my first attempt at a jedi turned out way more serious than I intended. She wasn't standing in the corner constantly saying how -dark- she was, but still. I can totally see how it's easy to take a left turn from serenity and end up in troubled ne'er do well land; Especially for an inexperienced RPer/young person.

 

If you're a RPer yourself, keep moving along if it bothers you till you find some characters you can stomach. I really don't know how RPers can pass such serious judgements on our fellows. There's not a hell of a lot of us in proportion to the rest of the in game community to begin with after all.

 

If you're not, A) You really have no right to judge at all, but in any event B) Just ignore it and be respectful of their choice of playstyle. (And yes, I know you did said you did OP, that's just more of a general statement of courtesy)

[Maidel]

Here's what I assume you've been told and so I'll skip. The; It's a RP server, if you don't like it ****. The; Moody teenager is moody. The; u iz Trull lulz.

 

Any chance of having that in english? I have no clue what you were trying to say.

 

 

If you're a RPer yourself, keep moving along if it bothers you till you find some characters you can stomach. I really don't know how RPers can pass such serious judgements on our fellows. There's not a hell of a lot of us in proportion to the rest of the in game community to begin with after all.

 

Quite easily. I find that DEEP AND SERIOUS role players create just as bad an image for RPers as greifing jerks do for PVPers. Its all a matter of where they get their 'fun' from. Griefers get their fun from, well, griefing and harrassing other players. Deep and serious rpers seem to get their fun from being as condesending and un-iterractable as possible and explain away anything that they do that upsets other players as being 'in character'. The number of times I have seen RPers insulting other players 'in character' and using it as an excuse for being complete and utter jerks constantly.

[AnthonyLeo]

I'm on an RP server and whenever people RP, I just leave it be. Whatever makes the game enjoyable for them as long as it doesn't directly affect me, I'm fine with it. What really bothers me is when other people who are not RPing and come across RPers and start making fun of them and making a huge fuss in general about how RPing is dumb etc. Seriously just grow up and leave them alone if they are not bothering you. And making a fuss about it in general will just piss other people off because nobody cares what you have to say as you try to draw attention to yourself. I mean I've had some good conversations in general about star wars lore that were actually pretty funny but it just takes one troll to be like 'you guys are all x, yada yada yada'. If you have nothing constructive to say, just don't say it but then again, it is an MMO so I shouldn't hold my expectations too high.

[Maidel]

If people make fun of Rpers on and ROLEPLAYING SERVER then they should be immediately deported to a PVP server and left to rot.

 

My point isnt so much that people shouldnt RP, but that many of them are really really bad at it and it makes me cringe. I however dont go around in local making fun of them.

[AnthonyLeo]

Well lets be honest, this may be the first time many have ever RPed before, they have to start somewhere. Being a seasoned veteran of RPing, why don't you write a guide about it and put it on the forums to help people who want to RP improve their RPing abilities.

[wrong_turn]

I've noticed a lot of this myself. I don't begrudge anyone their personal preferences so I don't want to give the wrong impression. Ultimately though I think its easier to go dark and brooding. I think people just understand those emotions better so they fall back on them. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just a theory. Personally I know actually have to make a concerted effort not to make a character that's angry and dark.

[Maidel]

Well lets be honest, this may be the first time many have ever RPed before, they have to start somewhere. Being a seasoned veteran of RPing, why don't you write a guide about it and put it on the forums to help people who want to RP improve their RPing abilities.

 

Thats like teaching someone to write better novels. It's not possible. You can either write or you can't, or you get better with practice.

[Sendra]

Thats like teaching someone to write better novels. It's not possible. You can either write or you can't, or you get better with practice.

 

I disagree. People who don't know any better may sometimes choose inferior models or standards to emulate, and sometimes suggestions or examples of better alternatives is all that is needed to nudge them onto a different, and better (to many of us) track. And if they see other ways to do things and simply like their way better - than let 'em have fun their way.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Sendra

[LadyNightArrow]

My first character in DnD 3.0 was a Half-hound Arcon Monk who got kicked out of the monastery for having an obsessive compulsive gambling problem. Every time a fellow player RPed their character saying, "You wanna bet?" to my character, I had to roll a Will save DC 18 to see if my character actually did bet (that was my idea, not the DM's). I had actually been playing on Wheel of Time MuDs before being introduced to DnD 3.0. But, the Half-hound Arcon was my first truly memorable character.

 

I tend to give my characters flaws or personality quirks that don't normally fit their class role. I don't like stereotypes or cliches and try not to fall into that. I fail at times, but I do try.

 

To be honest, with all of the personality types in books and movies it's getting harder to not fall into something that hasn't already been done. How it's implemented, on the other hand, is another matter, if that makes sense.

Edited January 25, 2012 by LadyNightArrow

[Maidel]

I disagree. People who don't know any better may sometimes choose inferior models or standards to emulate, and sometimes suggestions or examples of better alternatives is all that is needed to nudge them onto a different, and better (to many of us) track. And if they see other ways to do things and simply like their way better - than let 'em have fun their way.

 

Ah, now that's different. Reading lots of novels will help you write novels better. Rping with people who have done so for years will make you better at it.

 

It's still not possible to write a guide for it.

[DarthHeir]

People have already pretty much said what I'm about to but I wanted to put my 2 cents in.

 

First off, there's the obvious fact that it takes some time to learn to RP well. I learned roleplaying through play-by-post which is much easier than in-game IC and i think it took me about a week or two to get a hang of just doing that much and probably took me at least 4 or 5 months just to create one good multi-dimensional character. In a forum setting, it's much easier to give someone gentle guidance to make someone a better roleplayer than it is in a live setting where it is much more likely to come off as condescending. Honeslty, if I had tried to learn in-game IC I'd probably still suck today.

 

Second, there's taking into account the mood a person was in. I know even with my best character, in probably the biggest character defining roleplay he was in he went way off the deep-end for awhile when I myself was going through a hard time. Now granted, he had a lot of context and reason to be going off the deep-end (Infected iwth a virus that was killing him and contributing to his insanity among other reasons but I wont' go into depth), but the point I'm making is that seperating your personal feelings at the time AND being immersed is a very difficult balancing act.

 

Third, to me personally, it would be impossible to play a character that isn't like me at all AND be immersed. However, in just the three characters I made for the play-by-post roleplays on this server pre-launch, they all had aspects of myself in them while still being multi-dimensional and completely different people (A plotting palpatine-esque Sith Lord, an egomanical ex-Sith bounty hunter and a by the book Jedi). I think the thing is making a balance more than anything.

[sosolidshoe]

Thats like teaching someone to write better novels. It's not possible. You can either write or you can't, or you get better with practice.

 

notsureifserious.jpg

 

I take it you've never heard of Creative Writing classes then?

[Maidel]

notsureifserious.jpg

 

I take it you've never heard of Creative Writing classes then?

 

Sigh...

 

Been there, done that. I did go to school you know...

 

I stand by what I said, you cannot TEACH someone to write novels. You can guide, assist, suggest, but it is not a skill that can be learnt. It can be practiced and improved, but not taught.

 

In the same way you cannot TEACH someone to be good at football. You can teach them tactics, teach them ball skills, but in the end it is down to two things, natural talent and practice.

 

You cannot 'teach' someone how to rp. You can show them by example (not always helpful because copying someone else's rp isn't rping, it's mimicking) you can guide and mold it, but in the end it's down to practice and natural imagination.

[Explosive_Lasers]

Sigh...

 

Been there, done that. I did go to school you know...

 

I stand by what I said, you cannot TEACH someone to write novels. You can guide, assist, suggest, but it is not a skill that can be learnt. It can be practiced and improved, but not taught.

 

In the same way you cannot TEACH someone to be good at football. You can teach them tactics, teach them ball skills, but in the end it is down to two things, natural talent and practice.

 

You cannot 'teach' someone how to rp. You can show them by example (not always helpful because copying someone else's rp isn't rping, it's mimicking) you can guide and mold it, but in the end it's down to practice and natural imagination.

 

You can teach somebody to write better novels, play better football, and RP better. There's no question.

 

I wasn't the best writer, but I had a good, strict English teacher in 9th grade that taught me how to write better with constructive criticism. Sure, I could've written a novel before she did, but it was a day and night difference.

 

The same applies for football. You have to know HOW to hit, or you're just a big guy in pads. I've seen kids take down monsters half their size because they were taught better, not because of natural talent. If you have the pads, but don't use them right, they're not going to help you very much, and you'll be clobbered by somebody that does use them right, because they're practically invincible.

 

RP is the same way. You can teach somebody to make better stories, better characters, and respect their fellow RPers better. I had to learn the same way, and I will be the first to acknowledge I was a ****** RPer before some guys on WoW taught me how to do it without being obnoxious.

 

So, while you can't make them paragons, you can help them become better by teaching them. Giving advice, pointers, and constructive criticism is the best way to do it, and will improve even the best RPers. If they NEVER take advice, they don't want to learn, and they'll rarely, if ever, improve.

[Maidel]

You can teach somebody to write better novels, play better football, and RP better. There's no question.

 

Absolutely.

 

 

And thats utterly different what what I have said here, and what I was responding too.

 

Someone earlier in the thread said 'why dont you write a guide to teach people how to RP.'

 

My response was, thats not possible, you cant teach people to RP by writing a guide.

 

 

In the section of your post that I have quoted I have highlighted the relavent words.

 

I have said over and over that it is possible to help someone improve in all of these areas by practice and advice - it is not possible to write a guide and give it to someone to teach them how to do it.

[Sendra]

I have said over and over that it is possible to help someone improve in all of these areas by practice and advice - it is not possible to write a guide and give it to someone to teach them how to do it.

 

I'm still not certain if I agree with you, but I see your distinction and think it's valid. I suspect there may be a few people who really, at a deep level, don't "get" RP, and a written "how-to" guide won't help. Especially since most guides I have seen stray from the essence and dwell far too much on peripheral things like a detailed back story, writing ability, or creating a character that is drastically different from the player.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Sendra

[Maidel]

I'm still not certain if I agree with you, but I see your distinction and think it's valid. I suspect there may be a few people who really, at a deep level, don't "get" RP, and a written "how-to" guide won't help. Especially since most guides I have seen stray from the essence and dwell far too much on peripheral things like a detailed back story, writing ability, or creating a character that is drastically different from the player.

 

Thanks very much, Im glad someone can see what Im getting at, even if they dont wholey agree with me - I thought I was writing in a foreign language for a minute.

 

 

I have read a few 'RP' guides in the past, and DEAR GOD the make me want to throttle the person who wrote it. But your post made my point for me - the only thing you can describe in a guide is the periphery stuff. Its the same as my football analogy. You can write down all you want about what part of the foot to kick the ball with, or where you should be at what times on the pitch, but none of that will help one bit when you are actually given a ball to kick!

 

I could sit here and give LOADS of advice on 'how to RP' and ill garantee that 99% of people would come here and disagree with everything I say. Not because Im wrong, and they are right, nor are they right and im wrong, but because different things work for different people and the only way to work out what works is to practice, try it and learn from the response you get.

[Explosive_Lasers]

Absolutely.

 

 

And thats utterly different what what I have said here, and what I was responding too.

 

Someone earlier in the thread said 'why dont you write a guide to teach people how to RP.'

 

My response was, thats not possible, you cant teach people to RP by writing a guide.

 

 

In the section of your post that I have quoted I have highlighted the relavent words.

 

I have said over and over that it is possible to help someone improve in all of these areas by practice and advice - it is not possible to write a guide and give it to someone to teach them how to do it.

 

Well, I misunderstood, then. I had assumed from the way you worded that football can't be taught, that you meant you couldn't improve people.

 

So, my mistake. I guess my thoughts of teaching is equivalent to your thoughts of improving upon what has been taught or learned.

[Maidel]

Well, I misunderstood, then. I had assumed from the way you worded that football can't be taught, that you meant you couldn't improve people.

 

So, my mistake. I guess my thoughts of teaching is equivalent to your thoughts of improving upon what has been taught or learned.

 

Not entirely your fault - I was writing my posts and referencing my previous ones in the thread, without repeating myself.

 

So when I said 'taught' I was meaning 'taught by reading a guide' as per my first post.

 

Maybe someone could write a guide for me about using forums

[Soultranna]

I suspect, as has been said already, that part of it is a psychology thing. We 'project' parts of ourselves into our characters, and as we learn to roleplay better, then the characters stop being mirrors to the players, and start becoming their own personas.

 

That, and a lot of people might actually think "jedi = angsty". Not necessarily true, of course; look at Qui-Gonn Jinn and Obi-wan Kenobi.

 

of course, i don't like the typecasting with the Sith either - not everyone has to be some kind of sadistic monster. Bounty Hunters need not all be orphan clone boys with a mad-on for Jedi. And smugglers need not all be Han Solo.

 

Something that might help those looking for new ways to take their personas - find a character, perhaps from a film or a TV series, and then try to put someone LIKE him or her (not a copycat but a similar character) into a role that they wouldn't normally do. Then just see how the character develops. See how others relate to them, and then let them grow and mature.

 

Some examples:

Micheal Knight as a Jedi (or as a Sith marauder).

 

Jack Burton (Big Trouble in Little China) as an inquisitor.

 

Shaggy (Scooby Doo) as a bounty hunter. (!!!)

 

Currently my Agent is based loosely on Lisbeth Salander from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (the Swedish version with Noomi Rapace, not the Rooney Mara version). But I fully expect that personality to develop as she interacts with other people.