Sorceror/Sage are seriously OP

[Crysicko]

Ops damage was to high period.... no matter what excuse you throw out.

Tho that doesnt change the fact they in exchance for the NEEDED nerf in damage get a extra CC or perhaps a short sprint to get away.

[Vlaid]

THERE IS NO SURVIVABILITY FOR SORC/SAGE

 

(and for the record LoSing and running away when necessary don't count as survivability. Thats just good strategy)

 

Considering Sage/Sorc is the only AC in the game that has a mobility CD+heals, yes, yes it does count.

 

I guess heavy armor doesn't count because it's just the gear I wear?

 

In what world does survivability that other people can't do not count as survivability?

[dcgregorya]

Yeah I'm sure the 20% reduction from cover, the medium armor and the 25% reduction shield all contribute to the glassiness

 

You get 20% ranged deflection, which doesn't work against tech or force powers. So yeah, if a commando is spamming you with hammer shot you're in much better shape I suppose, but of course once he goes to grav round spam you're dead. Ironically cover provides the best defense against other snipers or gunslingers since the vast majority of their attacks are ranged and not tech. This also, by the way, means their attacks can be shielded (unlike tracer spam) and dodged (again, unlike tracer spam).

 

The other skill you're talking about has a 3 minute cooldown and it's 20% not 25%.

[NinjaScroll]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I'm going to stop you right there...

I've got 2 heals as a dps, 2 heals which drain my force like hell.

2 heals which I rarely use on myself (specially in combat) due to 2 being a pain as a dps.

I fight my own battles, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

 

My bubble is not a wall of absorption which never ends...

It only absorbs a "high amount of damage" but this so high amount of damage is like 5k at max which is just enough for me to either run away or pop something to bring you down.

 

We do hit hard but really ... not that hard, while other classes can get non-crit hits for over 3k ... we actually get those numbers on uber super crits (Well ... so far, below 50, my biggest hit which I assume was a crit was around 2.8k, maybe it gets better @ 50)

 

Oh, we can be interupted, everything we cast can be interupted...

If you're not wise enough to interupt a tick of force lightning ... you shouldn't be here whining about us being OP or else.

 

I'm actually starting to wonder if sustained dps is not the OP'est form of OP'ness.

[Spootybeaver]

Considering Sage/Sorc is the only AC in the game that has a mobility CD+heals, yes, yes it does count.

 

I guess heavy armor doesn't count because it's just the gear I wear?

 

In what world does survivability that other people can't do not count as survivability?

 

Follow the post sir.

 

This was in response to a claim that a sage/sorc could just stand around healing themselves (somehow immune to interrupts) while getting DPSed.

I can see your point about running away and healing being a survivability technique, but it really just resets the fight. Anyone with half a brain would use that time to heal themselves/regen before reengaging the sorc/sage. Its not survivability the in the same way that, Medium/heavy armor is or a damage reduction cool down is(or multiple dmg reduction CDs stacked are) or a damage reducing debuff is or gauard is. Resetting a fight so that everyone involved can get topped off is not that powerful.

[HBninjaX]

sorcs are the hardest to kill on my marauder, the goods ones are very resilient and take a very long time to chase down finish off.

 

I'm just jelly over the fact that they have WAY more versatility than my class, which is a one-trick pony and to make matters worse my one-trick doesn't stand out all that much

Edited January 24, 2012 by HBninjaX

[je-s-ter]

I'm going to stop you right there...

I've got 2 heals as a dps, 2 heals which drain my force like hell.

2 heals which I rarely use on myself (specially in combat) due to 2 being a pain as a dps.

I fight my own battles, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

 

My bubble is not a wall of absorption which never ends...

It only absorbs a "high amount of damage" but this so high amount of damage is like 5k at max which is just enough for me to either run away or pop something to bring you down.

 

We do hit hard but really ... not that hard, while other classes can get non-crit hits for over 3k ... we actually get those numbers on uber super crits (Well ... so far, below 50, my biggest hit which I assume was a crit was around 2.8k, maybe it gets better @ 50)

 

Oh, we can be interupted, everything we cast can be interupted...

If you're not wise enough to interupt a tick of force lightning ... you shouldn't be here whining about us being OP or else.

 

I'm actually starting to wonder if sustained dps is not the OP'est form of OP'ness.

 

 

If you are not 50 with at least champ gear (which is the pvp minimum), please dont even post anyhting. Just like in any other game, the pvp on max level and the pvp during levelling are two entirely different things.

[kiluar]

Hey,

 

I am playing an almost fully geared champion sage and are specced Balance.

I must say that I understand some of your points. But almost all of them a simply a class understanding issue.

 

Bubble:

I don't know the exact values but it absorbs somewhat in the range of 2-4k Dmg.

Me as a Balance specced sage, wearing the appropriate Offensive Set, has a 20 second diminishing return. Which means that after your initial burst the bubble will be almost surely gone and we can't shield us again for somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds.

 

After that, because of our low native Dmg-Mitigation, you should be able to tear through us like butter.

This takes me to your next point.

 

Healing:

Balanced specced we got 2 Heals in our arsenal:

 

Benevolence:

1.5 sec cast time (1.3 with my Alacrity Rating)

Cost: 50 (-9%)

Heals me about 1k uncrit and 2.5k crit.

 

The force cost a really high and we can theoretically cast about 12 of them in lets say 20 secs (Pushback) if we don't cast anything else. Then we'll be out of force whichs means no Dmg which will results in a loose.

 

Down-to-earth we can cast maybe about 4-6 due to using also our dots, instants, channel and bubbles.

 

Deliverance:

3 sec cast time (2.7 with my Alacrity Rating)

2.5 sec specced loosing 20-30% DoT Crit Dmg (2.2 with my Alacrity Rating)

Cost: 55 (- 9%)

Heals me about 2k non crit and max. 4k crit. And suffers extensively from Pushback (Balance).

 

The force cost a really high and we can theoretically cast about 11 of them in lets say 40 secs (Pushback) if we don't cast anything else. Then we'll be out of force whichs means no Dmg which will results in a loose.

 

Down-to-earth we can cast maybe about 3-5 due to using also our dots, instants, channel and bubbles.

 

Conclusion:

 

Just regularly interrupt our frickin Channel and we are not going to do any form of serious Dmg to you. All of our DPS ist built arround our Channel. It adds to our Dots and Procs our

instant casts with the exception of Force in Balance which costs much force and got a 15 sec CD.

 

Its true that we might swap to heal while not being able to cast our Channel, but I can tell you. If not specced for healing it won't safe us against the sheer amount of Dmg a properly specced and played Class can dish out. Also we can't do this for long.

 

Almost any Class will do more Dmg in those 1.3 (2.0 - Pushback) or 2.7 (3.5 - Pushback) seconds that we could heal and If we are going to also bubble our little *** up we will have way less force to Dmg you back.

 

The problem with most people loosing 1on1 to a sage is because nearly no one interrupts our Channel. The other case may be gear advantage.

Edited January 24, 2012 by kiluar

[Dravinian]

I'm going to stop you right there...

I've got 2 heals as a dps, 2 heals which drain my force like hell.

2 heals which I rarely use on myself (specially in combat) due to 2 being a pain as a dps.

I fight my own battles, sometimes I win, sometimes I don't.

 

My bubble is not a wall of absorption which never ends...

It only absorbs a "high amount of damage" but this so high amount of damage is like 5k at max which is just enough for me to either run away or pop something to bring you down.

 

We do hit hard but really ... not that hard, while other classes can get non-crit hits for over 3k ... we actually get those numbers on uber super crits (Well ... so far, below 50, my biggest hit which I assume was a crit was around 2.8k, maybe it gets better @ 50)

 

Oh, we can be interupted, everything we cast can be interupted...

If you're not wise enough to interupt a tick of force lightning ... you shouldn't be here whining about us being OP or else.

 

I'm actually starting to wonder if sustained dps is not the OP'est form of OP'ness.

 

You get good crits.

 

At 35 when I am in a Warzone I will often have the highest damage, but that is because I rely a lot on DoTs and Damage over Time effects that run almost continuously.

 

The other day I compared my damage to the damage of others in my Warzone and what I noticed is that everyone had 2k+ crits as "Biggest Hit" and my Biggest Hit was 1.8k.

 

Many had close to 3k, but I would hazard a guess the average was about 2.4k

 

We don't hit hard, but we hit continuously, so our Damage may well out play yours, because you are hitting and killing your opponent in 5 hits for 12k, that is your damage done til you find another target, I am hitting my opponent, dotting that bloke over there, projecting this bloke running towards the door, snaring that guy, oh 3 standing together there, quick AoE to get some heals, Lightening/Telekinetic on that bloke chasing some other player, oh my instant DoT is up...who has the most health around me, that guy, right that is you DoT'd, ohh a stealther just appeared, here you can have my really long low damage DoT.

 

I don't ever fight 1 target in a Warzone unless there is only one guy to hit.

 

I spread my damage around to as many targets as I can, which means that I rarely run out of targets in something like Voidstar, I am never looking for someone to do damage to, but instead am doing damage to loads of different people.

[Kryptic]

i wish they didnt nerf anything , instead buff up classes that needed buffing.

 

But no, they have to nerf and listen to all the whiners on the forums.

 

I seriously cant wait for all these little children that cry and whine on the forums to get bored of this game and quit.

 

Hopefully once that is done the game isnt nerfed into oblivion.

[NinjaScroll]

If you are not 50 with at least champ gear (which is the pvp minimum), please dont even post anyhting. Just like in any other game, the pvp on max level and the pvp during levelling are two entirely different things.

 

Ok ... so I must keep it shut 'cos I'm not part of the elite group of 50's ?!

Just like in any other game, if you're not "that" just stay in your corner ?

I'm sorry but no, shove your elitism down your throat and choke on it.

[SensualPanther]

Heals?!?! what are you talking about, the 3sec cats thats heals for about 2k? or the 2.5 sec cast that heals for 1.5k? if you cant DPS through those crappy heals, then L2P. Any DPS spec sorc/sage that tries to heal/tank through any DPS will die before the first heal is cast. Seriously, roll a sage/sorc and try it you will die every time.

 

If you have ever witnessed a sorc/sage surviving any amount of DPS focus, then they had a pocket healer AND guard on them.

 

THERE IS NO SURVIVABILITY FOR SORC/SAGE

 

(and for the record LoSing and running away when necessary don't count as survivability. Thats just good strategy)

 

the problem is that they usually put up their bubble when I go 1 on 1 with them. And while they have their shield up, they usually start healing. And seriously, I'm only level 30. You go through pvp warzone right now for people who aren't level 50, and the highest single crit you'll see out of all the players is usually around 3.6k. Dunno, I guess sorcs are a lot harder to beat when you're not 50.

 

not only that but unlike force lightning, a lot of attacks have cooldowns so we can't spam it.

 

Just take away the movement speed slowdown that force lightning has and the class will be fine. You can't LoS when every single player on the team is spamming that attack and you're walking like a snail.

[SensualPanther]

i wish they didnt nerf anything , instead buff up classes that needed buffing.

 

But no, they have to nerf and listen to all the whiners on the forums.

 

I seriously cant wait for all these little children that cry and whine on the forums to get bored of this game and quit.

 

Hopefully once that is done the game isnt nerfed into oblivion.

 

Its prob just easier for devs to nerf than to buff I feel like. Though your idea would be pretty fun.

 

Also a tactics vanguard can take down a sorc pretty easy. Just respec'd to one, and an interrupt with a 6 second cooldown works wonders.

[NinjaScroll]

I don't ever fight 1 target in a Warzone unless there is only one guy to hit.

 

I spread my damage around to as many targets as I can, which means that I rarely run out of targets in something like Voidstar, I am never looking for someone to do damage to, but instead am doing damage to loads of different people.

 

That's my point right there...

We're a sustained dps class and we can move from target to target with only a slight loss on overall efficiency. While our dots tick on one target we can shock/project another one, force lighting/tele throw another one.

 

At some point ... Sorc/Sage reminds me of Warlocks back in WoW

Run & DoT & Spam drain life while using fear to get stuff off our back.

They also were squishy as hell but they had constant & sustained dps just like Sorc/Sage in this game.

 

Even when Locks got nerf to the ground, there were still people pwning others thus making whiners whine more about them due to the fact they were still being pwnd by warlocks.

 

I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen...

I'm afraid we're still going to pwn people and make them ask for more nerfs.

[NinjaScroll]

Its prob just easier for devs to nerf than to buff I feel like. Though your idea would be pretty fun.

 

Also a tactics vanguard can take down a sorc pretty easy. Just respec'd to one, and an interrupt with a 6 second cooldown works wonders.

 

Please ... keep it secret, seems like there's not many people knowing this and how bad interupts are for Sorc/Sage or any casters.

(AKA Tracer missiles, Grav Round)

[DestyOwn]

Yeah I'm sure the 20% reduction from cover, the medium armor and the 25% reduction shield all contribute to the glassiness

 

TROLOLOL

 

20% Reduction From Weapon damage, which is only other snipers.

 

and where did you get the 25% Reduction shield? You mean 20% on a 2min cooldown. which you can get knocked out of cover if you dont use Entrench which is an another cooldown.

 

Gimme a break . Sorcs and Sages need a nerf, at least remove the slow .

 

as a sniper. The slow of force lightning and the pellet shooting spell means you cant go no where. no escape moves, no shield(yes our shield probes does nothing) no force speed, no stealth....

Edited January 24, 2012 by DestyOwn

[Darth_Vampirius]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I seriously doubt any other class can beat either of these two 1 vs 1 - and if you say "well my blah blah uber pvp skills beat this class" then guess what, you played against a sucky Sorceror or Sage so deflate your head bubble.

 

My wife plays a Sage, I play a guardian. Even being unfamiliar with the class, I went into level 50 warzones and was getting top 5 DPS, top 5 healing and medals up the ying. This is w/out PvP gear. I would seriously LOL while melee guys hit me and I bubbled and nuked them in their face.

 

Seriously, I've played caster DPS in just about every MMO out there and these classes are over the top OP. If they aren't brought into reality I doubt this game will last.

 

OR they might as well change the name to Star Wars, Sith Sorcerors VS Jedi Sage. Because noone wants to be facerolled over and over by classes this out of line.

 

This isnt against sorcerors, I'm saying that BOTH classes are OP.

 

My wifes toon is a Telekinetics spec SAGE.

 

Honestly, it is FUN to play either class, (I was sorceror in BETA).

 

No class in the game has the mobility, survivability, CC, and DPS of either of these classes.

 

And I'm sorry, but alternating spells is very simple and tanks can only interupt at best every other one, so I either heal myself or I nuke the crap out of them.

 

Shield/Stun/Slow are at my disposal almost non stop, and if that don't work I have AoE knock back.

 

I feel like a kid in a candy store playing this class - last time I had this much power was when I was Dark Jedi Knight pre-patch in Star Wars Galaxies, the other time was when I played a smite cleric in DAOC.

 

BTW - both of those really fun classes eventually got brought into reality.

If you can't beat a sorc as a guardian, there is not much to tell you except L2P...

Edited January 24, 2012 by Darth_Vampirius

[SensualPanther]

Please ... keep it secret, seems like there's not many people knowing this and how bad interupts are for Sorc/Sage or any casters.

(AKA Tracer missiles, Grav Round)

 

oh a tactics vanguard is like the death of them. That being said, there still needs to be something done about the movement decrease by force lightning.

 

Everything else is perfect honestly. Just that. Especially in huttball when the entire time is spamming that move. You have no idea how slow the republic players are moving the entire game.

[Iamurfriend]

All the whining about force lightning makes me laugh. The damage from force lightning is not high at all. We use force lightning to get wrath procs for instant cast crushing darkness and chain lightning.

 

Here is a hint, if you see a sorc hard casing chain lightning or crushing darkness they are clueless and you should demolish them easily.

 

Next time you're in a warzone actually look at the scoreboard. Yes, there are probably going to be a few good sorcs who do well, but look at the bottom, there is almost inevitably a few who do poorly as well. The class isn't OP, it's just that there are so many of us that its just a numbers game. Some of us are good, and some of us are bad.

[Bosseking]

The damage absorption is also completely ineffective

 

Yeah, 1k shield. I mean, dots aside, is there any damage specced class that cannot oneshot throught that shield with one damage ability?

 

Cover, which makes you immune to interrupts, pushback, leaps, and pulls..also totally ineffective

 

In what planet does cover make you immune to pushbacks? It means immune to ability activation pushbacks only.

 

We do a lot damage, I admit it, but so do sorcs / sages. In fact they are in par with us AND can heal. That's the problem.

 

Trying to paint a picture that gunslinger is somehow NOT squishy is stupid in extreme. We have 20% damage reduction bubble with 3 min cd. We have 1k shield and we have cover that gives 20% damage reduction against our mirror class. And the last and certainly the least 3 second dodge against all the white damage which is like 25% of all the damage spells around. We are probably the squishiest class in game with scoundrel and operative, but we don't have vanish (or whatever it's called here) and healing abilities.

 

Not saying this this class is underpowered though. It is designed to do AND take a lot damage. Just feel like in pvp there's nothing sage / sorc or commando / merc cannnot do as well or better than us.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Bosseking

[Rotm]

Good idea OP lets nerf sorc/sage into uselessness like daoc smite clerics.

 

Also Sorc like wow rogue and tor operative are a class scrubs can do well with and great players do great with. In my experience most other classes excel to a similar degree with a good player behind them.

[SensualPanther]

All the whining about force lightning makes me laugh. The damage from force lightning is not high at all. We use force lightning to get wrath procs for instant cast crushing darkness and chain lightning.

 

Here is a hint, if you see a sorc hard casing chain lightning or crushing darkness they are clueless and you should demolish them easily.

 

Next time you're in a warzone actually look at the scoreboard. Yes, there are probably going to be a few good sorcs who do well, but look at the bottom, there is almost inevitably a few who do poorly as well. The class isn't OP, it's just that there are so many of us that its just a numbers game. Some of us are good, and some of us are bad.

 

honestly play as the republic for huttball. you're going to be a snail for the entire game.

 

"Deals 4089 energy damage to the target over the duration of the effect. Also slows the movement speed of the target by 50% and immobilizes weak and standard enemies."

 

4089 damage in 3 seconds for a 6 cooldown spell that also slows down movement is really not that bad.

[TetraCleric]

People making balance suggestions that aren't level 50 are stupid. You don't balance 1-49. You can't balance 1-49. You balance end game, at level 50, because that is where skills stop relying on variable levels. If you cannot understand this, you are a lost cause and should quit playing MMO's.

[Zaodon]

qq thread from l2p

[savionen]

Not sure if they're OP or not but just played a Voidstar with 7 Sorcerors on the Empire team. Edited January 24, 2012 by savionen