Sorceror/Sage are seriously OP

[SensualPanther]

Honestly this whole Sorcerer/Sage OP thing is getting really annoying. I play as a healer, and have played as DPS before. I get focused a lot because people on my server know I'm a healer. There is one Marauder (who I will not name) literally ****s me every time he sees me. He kills me in about 5 shots and I can't interrupt anything he does because none of his attacks he uses are channeled. I try to LoS him but he always catches up.

 

The pushback I receive from my heals is HUGE. I can't sit there and just take damage from a good player. I did a 1v1 on Ilum with a guildmate of mine who is a DPS specced Vanguard. Trying to heal myself in between attacks was almost impossible.

 

As for DPS specced Sages/Sorcerers, look at them. They are probably using a mix between a balance and telekinetics/lightning build. They will use force lightning or telekinetic throw in order to get a proc that allows them to cast chain lightning/telekinetic wave instantly. Interrupt the lightning or throw. The heals they have are, well they have 2. One sucks and you'll only use if you need a quick 1k heal. OTherwise you move out of LoS and sit there for 2.5 seconds trying to heal yourself.

 

It is EXTREMELY easy to kill a Sorc/Sage. Interrupt them! If my heals get interrupted I get pissed and tell my team to *********** target the douchebag that did that to me and kill him.

 

Everything a Sage/Sorc has is channeled or has a cast time. AFAIK almost every class has one interrupt/stun they can use on a target. So use it! If you can't kill a healing Sorc/Sage, well youredoingitwrong.

 

The problem is that the vanguard's interrupt has a 8 second cooldown.

 

Whats the cooldown for force lightning? 6 seconds. Cooldown for their heal?

 

I just wanna know, do I interrupt the heal? the force lightning? or the chain lightning if it happens? and man, does the 50% slowdown to movement ever drive me nuts lol. Especially when all you see the entire other team which is made up of sorcs do

 

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

 

so ya, serious advice needed. Which would I interrupt to cause the most problems for a sorc?

[Omnistarr]

If (and this is a big if) a Sage is DPS specced and isn't a glass cannon, it's because of the controller's ability to survive and properly prioritise self-sustainment and damage abilities.

 

That said, there is nothing "wrong" with the class. There are only controllers who understand the game mechanics and how to optimise them. They are mortal and they can die. But, if they save their consumables and protective/restorative abilities (which any good PvP player should), they are very hard to kill. Not because they're playing an overpowered class, but because they're better at PvP than you are. This is not an insult, it's (hopefully) an insight for the original poster and anyone that shares his view.

[DarthKahel]

The problem is that the vanguard's interrupt has a 8 second cooldown.

 

Whats the cooldown for force lightning? 6 seconds. Cooldown for their heal?

 

I just wanna know, do I interrupt the heal? the force lightning? or the chain lightning if it happens? and man, does the 50% slowdown to movement ever drive me nuts lol. Especially when all you see the entire other team which is made up of sorcs do

 

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

 

so ya, serious advice needed. Which would I interrupt to cause the most problems for a sorc?

 

You interrupt the heal over all things. It would be more helpful if I knew what class you're playing but cc's can also be used to interrupt. I play a sentinel as my main dps shadow and tank guardian alts.

 

But basically I try to burst healers down to the point where they're desperate to heal themselves I save my cc's for when they're hurt. I interrupt first since it has the shortest cd and will be back up quickest and burst in-between interrupts and cc's.

 

Healers can take a long time to kill sometimes they are pretty tanky but while they heal they aren't dpsing you so its just delaying the inevitable.

[Homicidal_Maniac]

Can't tell if serious thread lol:rolleyes:

[Raque]

Sorcerers are super OP...

 

 

If you let them stand around and heal+turret.

 

 

If you actually do your job you can shut him down very easily.

 

 

I hate the expression, but I think it applies: L2P

QFT, if you freely let any class in this game optimize their output then they will act crazy OP.

 

For Sorcerers, we are very squishy (even with our shields) and it is very easy to kill us or at least make us run for cover. We have no defensive cooldowns and all our control abilities have at least a 30 sec cooldown including our sprint. Make us burn them early and often and we have no defenses, however you let me stand there and turret and I will melt your entire team's face off....not quickly because we have no burst, but will do huge total damage if left on my own.

 

Also, our Force Lightning has a very visible graphic while most other classes are more discrete. Remember it might not be the Force Lightning that is killing you even if that is all that you are seeing.

[Omnistarr]

The problem is that the vanguard's interrupt has a 8 second cooldown.

 

Whats the cooldown for force lightning? 6 seconds. Cooldown for their heal?

 

I just wanna know, do I interrupt the heal? the force lightning? or the chain lightning if it happens? and man, does the 50% slowdown to movement ever drive me nuts lol. Especially when all you see the entire other team which is made up of sorcs do

 

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

 

so ya, serious advice needed. Which would I interrupt to cause the most problems for a sorc?

 

You're in a tough situation here, mate. I would always say that you should interrupt the heal. But, you've really got to pay attention to what they're casting. A lot of times when I need to heal, I'll use my 3s heal first to bait an interrupt out of my opponent. If they bite and blow their interrupt, I'll get some distance and start using my 1.5s heal. I hope this helped.

[Flyingcookie]

OP OP OP just continue to riun the game dumba** whiners

[SensualPanther]

You interrupt the heal over all things. It would be more helpful if I knew what class you're playing but cc's can also be used to interrupt. I play a sentinel as my main dps shadow and tank guardian alts.

 

But basically I try to burst healers down to the point where they're desperate to heal themselves I save my cc's for when they're hurt. I interrupt first since it has the shortest cd and will be back up quickest and burst in-between interrupts and cc's.

 

Healers can take a long time to kill sometimes they are pretty tanky but while they heal they aren't dpsing you so its just delaying the inevitable.

 

I play vanguard. It's just annoying cause the cooldown for riot strike is 8 seconds.

 

aren't the cooldowns for their heal 9 seconds? I can interrupt one, but what about the second heal?

[SensualPanther]

You're in a tough situation here, mate. I would always say that you should interrupt the heal. But, you've really got to pay attention to what they're casting. A lot of times when I need to heal, I'll use my 3s heal first to bait an interrupt out of my opponent. If they bite and blow their interrupt, I'll get some distance and start using my 1.5s heal. I hope this helped.

 

dammit llol

 

I'm perfectly fine with BH and their tracer missisles. But sorcs with their casting and heals, its tough to know when to interrupt. And ya ton of sorcs do that.

 

Which spell heals more for sorcs? And what happens if they bait me with their smaller heal? Do I just interrupt only their bigger heals? Dunno its a pain for me to fight them

[MonsAlpha]

The problem is that the vanguard's interrupt has a 8 second cooldown.

 

Whats the cooldown for force lightning? 6 seconds. Cooldown for their heal?

 

I just wanna know, do I interrupt the heal? the force lightning? or the chain lightning if it happens? and man, does the 50% slowdown to movement ever drive me nuts lol. Especially when all you see the entire other team which is made up of sorcs do

 

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

FORCE LIGHTNING

 

so ya, serious advice needed. Which would I interrupt to cause the most problems for a sorc?

 

My interrupt as a Sage is on a 12 second CD, I'd love yours! Interrupt the heal obviously. Use a knockback if they use force lightning or something. If they are DPS specced, quite obvious by the non apparent heals, interrupt the force lightning so they don't get the wrath proc. Use a cleanse (if you have one) to remove the slow effect.

 

There is no CD for force lightning if they are DPS specced, that's why you need to interrupt it. If a Sorc/Sage is only using force lightning, just chain stun to piss them off, because that alone isn't going to kill anyone.

[MonsAlpha]

dammit llol

 

I'm perfectly fine with BH and their tracer missisles. But sorcs with their casting and heals, its tough to know when to interrupt. And ya ton of sorcs do that.

 

Which spell heals more for sorcs? And what happens if they bait me with their smaller heal? Do I just interrupt only their bigger heals? Dunno its a pain for me to fight them

 

Btw, what spec are you? Assault Specialist spec is AMAZING to use against Sorc/Sages. The fire CANNOT be cleansed by a Sorc/Sage as it is a tech power. Sorc/Sage cleanse only removes negative mental and FORCE effects. Fire is a tech effect. Keep constant DoT's on them and they die pretty quickly if they don't know what heals to use in sequence.

[Axethales]

OMG OMG! You got in the top 5 damage and healing in a team of 8?! Alright, after all those partly even very well formulated arguments about people thinking Sorcs are OP, your facts just totally convinced me!

 

Playing my poorly geared level 15 Merc which even has empty gear slots I still can get even Top 3 damage AND healing and still enough medals. Same with my Trooper and my Operative anyway. Really, your argumentation is very thin and flawed.

 

Top 5 out of 16 - but good try.

 

200k - 300k+ DPS with crap gear and spamming 3 spells, only class easier to top DPS is BH.

 

I will have to record a video and youtube it, but honestly they are already up on you tube proving this so do we really need another?

 

Search engines are your friend - Sage Level 50 PvP, or Sorceror level 50 PvP - lots of videos showing pure pwnage for all your viewing pleasure.

[Wrakk]

Grotesquely IMBA class that needs a NERF of centuries to make it straight and balanced. Terribad, knuckleheaded terribad....

[Rheeling]

Have played against many of them in 50's brackets, and am currently leveling a Sage myself (level 36 atm I think?).

 

I'm going into the balance tree, which is more dot-heavy and mobile. From playing the class now, and after lots of observations when playing against Sorcerers, this is what I've decided:

 

I honestly think a LOT of the problems with this class would be solved if either the Force Shield (not sure what it's called for Sorcerers, but "the bubble" as known on the forums) was taken out completely, could only be used on ourselves once every 45 seconds-1 minute, or had an even higher force cost. Currently at 65, could be raised to 100.

 

Any of these would prevent the "bubble spam" that almost everyone hates. The first option is a little radical, but if they did that then there wouldn't even need to be any more adjustments to the class, as we just lost any form of protection we had. The second and third would both force us to choose when to use it, and it would become strategical. Not "lolmarauder, bubble slow kite dot bubble bubble bubble".

 

At the moment, I think that's the best option to at least put our toes in the water on nerfing.

[Posixgod]

A glass cannon DPS or healer.

 

Why can these classes take it to the face from our BEST melee DPS classes and merely bubble/heal thru the damage as they nuke that person down.

 

I seriously doubt any other class can beat either of these two 1 vs 1 - and if you say "well my blah blah uber pvp skills beat this class" then guess what, you played against a sucky Sorceror or Sage so deflate your head bubble.

 

My wife plays a Sage, I play a guardian. Even being unfamiliar with the class, I went into level 50 warzones and was getting top 5 DPS, top 5 healing and medals up the ying. This is w/out PvP gear. I would seriously LOL while melee guys hit me and I bubbled and nuked them in their face.

 

Seriously, I've played caster DPS in just about every MMO out there and these classes are over the top OP. If they aren't brought into reality I doubt this game will last.

 

OR they might as well change the name to Star Wars, Sith Sorcerors VS Jedi Sage. Because noone wants to be facerolled over and over by classes this out of line.

 

Stating the obvious, you don't understand the fundamentals of the Sorc class, screaming "THEY ARE OP" is just another way of saying you don't understand the dynamics of your own class as well.

 

Again, you can refute this as much as you want, sorc's have utility, none of which is OP.

[Scaffy]

Have played against many of them in 50's brackets, and am currently leveling a Sage myself (level 36 atm I think?).

 

I'm going into the balance tree, which is more dot-heavy and mobile. From playing the class now, and after lots of observations when playing against Sorcerers, this is what I've decided:

 

I honestly think a LOT of the problems with this class would be solved if either the Force Shield (not sure what it's called for Sorcerers, but "the bubble" as known on the forums) was taken out completely, could only be used on ourselves once every 45 seconds-1 minute, or had an even higher force cost. Currently at 65, could be raised to 100.

 

Any of these would prevent the "bubble spam" that almost everyone hates. The first option is a little radical, but if they did that then there wouldn't even need to be any more adjustments to the class, as we just lost any form of protection we had. The second and third would both force us to choose when to use it, and it would become strategical. Not "lolmarauder, bubble slow kite dot bubble bubble bubble".

 

At the moment, I think that's the best option to at least put our toes in the water on nerfing.

 

lol if i can bubble twice in one duel i was lucky...there's a lockout timer on that ability.

[Bluetickone]

A healing-specd sage's damage is sad -- terrible, in fact. The only major issue I see with them is the disparity in aoe heals. Why on earth BW would limit other healing classes aoe heals comparatively is beyond me. This just leads to the current state of sages being the only desired end-game healing class. Reminds me of priests in vanilla wow vis-a-vis druids and paladins -- man were those fun days for the later classes...

[Aenemia]

 

Build? Try hybrid. Awesome burst. 4k+ crits on AoEs. Almost all debuffs you can get. Never go below 90% force.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

 

 

What hybrid build are you using to 4k+ crit with Sage? I'm a hybrid and have mostly crit stacked pvp gear and the highest crit I have ever got was 3.9k. Most of the time they're 2.5k-3.5k.

[SensualPanther]

Btw, what spec are you? Assault Specialist spec is AMAZING to use against Sorc/Sages. The fire CANNOT be cleansed by a Sorc/Sage as it is a tech power. Sorc/Sage cleanse only removes negative mental and FORCE effects. Fire is a tech effect. Keep constant DoT's on them and they die pretty quickly if they don't know what heals to use in sequence.

 

I'm assault spec. Though I'm thinking of going into tactics to get the riot strike cooldown reduced. And hold the line just seems godlike as well cause when the entire other team is just doing force lightning, I hate being slowed down by 50%.

 

And my rotation is:

 

Incendiary round

High impact bolt

Sticky grenade (dont have assault plastique yet)

hammer shot

ion pulse

stockstrike

HIB

 

It's just such a tough time trying to interrupt their heals when they have two, and force lightning which has no cooldown

[Chiricahua]

Ah! So the Operative gets the nerf bat and the first thing I see this morning is Sorc crying. I believe I said this would be the second class against the wall after Operatives. Glad to see I called it since even pre-nerf a sorc with even half a brain could negate an Operatives 'broken' opener with their 'broken' bubble shield.

 

Personally I'd rather all the classes keep their 'broken' abilities as most of them negate each other. If we keep nerfing everything every class has, PvE will suffer while PvP becomes Toon Town. I guess catering to the lowest common denominator in an MMO is cost-effective.

 

Oh, and after Sorcerer/Sages you can look forward to a huge Bounty Hunter/Trooper nerf if you're a betting man. Mark my words, it's coming.

 

Agreed. No more nerfs, or this game will be remembered for its mediocrity.

[Tandrius]

I've got a 50 sorc and a 30+ of everything else. Here's the thing. Sorc's don't really need a nerf, especially as they really don't do as much dmg as most of the other classes when gear is equal.

 

They do, however, have too much control right now, although most of it is gained from talents which are mutually exclusive, meaning you get cced by one sorc one way, then by a diff way and say that's op, while really no sorc has both abilities.

 

The easiest thing to do with sorcs is remove their slow with force lightning and that would pretty much do it. I also would probably take away the talents for instant ww and root on knockback. Any of this would fix things without doing any dmg to the class.

[Rheeling]

lol if i can bubble twice in one duel i was lucky...there's a lockout timer on that ability.

 

Isn't that lockout debuff only 20 seconds? Maybe 30? I'm only in the sub-50 bracket, but I can usually use it twice. Loooots of kiting, slowing, stunning, and dotting involved, but I can do it lol.

 

The only reason I think the bubble nerf would help is that, while it only blocks 2500 (3000 if specced), we wouldn't be able to just "cancel" every class's openers or strongest hits. If we couldn't always have it up on ourselves out of combat, we're now vulnerable to Assassins and Operatives as well.

[TFerg]

Yeah, they need to be toned down. Have you ever faced a team of 6/8 consulars? It's insane. As my juggernaut I consistently have gotten highest damage/obj points etc but when there's this amount of consulars, I literally just switch to soresu form and run around being a gimped damage soaker. There's literally no way for me to properly advance on this class.

 

Force leap? Nope. Knockback with snare. Obliterate the knockback midair against the ones without snare? Nope. Force speed+absolutely absurd amounts of crowd control.

 

FINALLY do some damage to them? Nope, sorry. Their shield is based on willpower only and absorbs more than my Gladiator Disc priest could even PRAY to absorb.

 

So I finally just said screw it, and made one of my own. I went the shared spec, and I can honestly say that I've never felt more powerful in any mmo I've played in pvp. Not because of some game breaking bug, or insta gibbing people, but because I can literally do everything. And not just do everything, but I do it freaking well.

 

I don't think they are ruining my game experience (unless there are literally a team filled with them) but they need toning down.

 

Sage healers require literally no peeling to be effective. None. Even after playing a priest for 5 years in pvp in WoW, I avoided this class simply because it seemed absurd. I was right. I have never, and I mean ever simply not needed any peels in an MMO. Its just how healing works. The obvious and simplistic strategy is to focus the healers. Then teammates help them. If the teamwork is better for your team, you generally win.

 

Sorry, I don't need your help. I literally just cc'ed their entire switch, sped out of reach of melee, and healed myself to full in 2 spells.

[Axethales]

This isnt against sorcerors, I'm saying that BOTH classes are OP.

 

My wifes toon is a Telekinetics spec SAGE.

 

Honestly, it is FUN to play either class, (I was sorceror in BETA).

 

No class in the game has the mobility, survivability, CC, and DPS of either of these classes.

 

And I'm sorry, but alternating spells is very simple and tanks can only interupt at best every other one, so I either heal myself or I nuke the crap out of them.

 

Shield/Stun/Slow are at my disposal almost non stop, and if that don't work I have AoE knock back.

 

I feel like a kid in a candy store playing this class - last time I had this much power was when I was Dark Jedi Knight pre-patch in Star Wars Galaxies, the other time was when I played a smite cleric in DAOC.

 

BTW - both of those really fun classes eventually got brought into reality.

[SensualPanther]

I've got a 50 sorc and a 30+ of everything else. Here's the thing. Sorc's don't really need a nerf, especially as they really don't do as much dmg as most of the other classes when gear is equal.

 

They do, however, have too much control right now, although most of it is gained from talents which are mutually exclusive, meaning you get cced by one sorc one way, then by a diff way and say that's op, while really no sorc has both abilities.

 

The easiest thing to do with sorcs is remove their slow with force lightning and that would pretty much do it. I also would probably take away the talents for instant ww and root on knockback. Any of this would fix things without doing any dmg to the class.

 

ya the only thing I would like to see is to see the 50% slower movement removed from force lightning. Especially since the entire other team just spams it, I'm walking like a snail for the entire game