xworndownx Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 From a game questing standpoint: Every game, until proven otherwise, is linear. There are no true dynamic game questing systems. You always start somewhere and then end somewhere. That is linear as it starts at point A and ends at point B. It doesn't matter what you did with your character or the choices that you made through the journey you still end in the same place. To put that into higher perspective: Real life is linear. We are born and we eventually die. You want linear then there is nothing more linear than our real lives. Linear also affects EVERYTHING in the universe. Stars, rocks, planets, grass, ants, everything in the universe must die in time. They may not die in our lifetime but one day the universe will go dark! So, of course your being led down a path, that is all we know as human beings. And don't let people give you much crap about life either, nothing we do from the day we are born till the day we die matters. But, before we die we should do what makes us happy every moment of our lives regardless of what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeklor Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Welcome to every BW game ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daysup Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Ultima Online had no linearity, but it did have 8x8 macro boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheroras Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I am only lvl 13 or so but I just can't get into this game. I always have a feeling of being led like a dog on a chain because the worlds/quest enviroments are so linear. I always feel like I am being led down a tunnel, and at the end the next quest starts that will further lead me down another tunnel and maybe this one has a 90 degree turn. I dont have the feeling like I am in a world that I can go anywhere I please like in other mmorpgs I have played. Does it get better at higher lvls? Should I stick with the game? Does anyone else have this feeling like the game is controling them instead of you controlling the game?? Thanks in advance for your feedback dog on a chain, as in National Lampoon's Vacation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFieryBalrog Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Did you just make that up? lol Linear is from the latin. Drawn by lines. It's a mathematics term Do you have any clue what what on earth we're talking about? We're talking about linearity with respect to game design, not as it's used in mathematics. I took 2 years of Latin in college, please don't try to educate me on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You must've missed a lot in your time there. Some people join nullsec corps right away and move out there for corp ops immediately. They can mine immediately, and PVP in groups immediately too. Will they be more effective as they get their fitting skills maxed? Of course. But really... to claim it's an illusion of a sandbox... by that standard, real life isn't a sandbox because you have some measure of progression even if you jump from place to place. Honestly... That is exactly the point. You can PvP in TOR whenever you want too. You can go to Tatooine with your friends after the starter area if you want... Won't do you much good, just like it won't do you any good in EVE, since you don't have the skills or equipment to do anything (except to get "twinked"). Again, TOR is no more linear than any other MMO... including EVE. You're still roped in by your level. And more importantly, TOR is no more linear than any other Quest-based MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkimor Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Swtor's linearity can only be compared to the original Mario. If you feel like you're being lead on now, just wait till 50. You sit in fleet, and then get herded into your raid or warzone. Like ALL themepark MMO's, they lead you from one place to the next so you know where to go so you don't have to search for the right level areas to quest in or have to spend hours looking for that particular camp that has quests for you. Sorry, but it is the way of themepark MMO's. It's funny to hear people complain about it when people have been playing WoW or other themepark games exactly the same way. They just don't realize it. Wrong. Hugely wrong. All of the worlds architecture is designed to be one hallway to the next; where as in WoW, the world was designed to be just that, a world! So you have a quest to go to point A, and you're at point B: how do you get there? In Swtor, you follow bread crumbs to point A, in WoW (like in any game, or real life) they'll give either some sort of directions or hints, but you can take any way you like, the possibilities of which are boundless. Love the irony of your last smug sentence though, it tasted delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do you have any clue what what on earth we're talking about? We're talking about linearity with respect to game design, not as it's used in mathematics. I took 2 years of Latin in college, please don't try to educate me on the matter. Do designers not draw lines? In reference to strictly "video game" linearity. TOR falls under the non-linear category. If you want to add substance to your posts I welcome it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do designers not draw lines? In reference to strictly "video game" linearity. TOR falls under the non-linear category. If you want to add substance to your posts I welcome it. TOR is pretty linear. Not sure why you would think otherwise. You are led from Point A to Point B, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFieryBalrog Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 TOR is pretty linear. Not sure why you would think otherwise. Lack of knowledge regarding game design, most likely. On the scale of linear to open-ended, TOR falls very squarely on the linear end of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archifikoss Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's a Bioware game, they have always been very linear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 And more importantly, TOR is no more linear than any other Quest-based MMO.The lack of quests is brutal. People complain about comparing WoW zones to SWTOR planets, and I guess they make a fair point in the sheer size of the zones, but look at the content. Compare STV to any SWTOR planet. One WoW zone easily eclipses any SWTOR planet I've come across. Maybe not in sheer size, but definitely in sheer content. I guess playing into this is that content is more heavily restricted here based on class, but even so. There's a seriously underwhelming amount of quests on practically any planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 As long as you are given multiple paths. It's non-linear. Go back to school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) To the OP basicaly its just like every other MMO, the problem in swtor it becomes more obvious, due to Voiced storytelling and its imersion, also the lack of some other features helps this issue to be more highlighted, but its no diferent then anyother MMO. also in Swtor if you want an escape from that you realy need to look for it, its not given to you easy. There is alot off stuff to do like killing world bosses , But has i said its not given to you easy. you need to form a large opss group, and know where the boss is etc. just an example, how one can escape the tunnel feeling thing. there is alot off stuff to do and you can do it diferently, they kinda give it to you some freedom its just isnt aparent right way. Edited January 24, 2012 by Spartanik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skitzopath Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I am only lvl 13 or so but I just can't get into this game. I always have a feeling of being led like a dog on a chain because the worlds/quest enviroments are so linear. I always feel like I am being led down a tunnel, and at the end the next quest starts that will further lead me down another tunnel and maybe this one has a 90 degree turn. I dont have the feeling like I am in a world that I can go anywhere I please like in other mmorpgs I have played. Does it get better at higher lvls? Should I stick with the game? Does anyone else have this feeling like the game is controling them instead of you controlling the game?? Thanks in advance for your feedback Out of curiosity, how is this unlike WoW, Rift, AoC, WAR, EQ (1 & 2), or any other MMO out there for that matter? Oh I know there is a linear story that if followed shows your character grow in power and influence throughout the galaxy. Every MMO in existence has a few zones / areas per level that your character will not die in. SWtOR has 1 planet every few levels. Personally I'll trade an extra couple of zones for the feeling that what I do actually makes a difference in my personal world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkelord Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 You are not wrong, as anyone who has played WoW knows. Compared to this game WoW is the exact same. There are quests on every planet you choose what planet you want to quest on, you don't have to pick up any quests you don't want to progress through the game, there is tons of exploration and locations that have nothing to do with quests, there are tons of hidden quests, etc. Every time you level up you can choose a completely different route. Fixed your post, you're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sai-to Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The lack of quests is brutal. People complain about comparing WoW zones to SWTOR planets, and I guess they make a fair point in the sheer size of the zones, but look at the content. Compare STV to any SWTOR planet. One WoW zone easily eclipses any SWTOR planet I've come across. Maybe not in sheer size, but definitely in sheer content. I guess playing into this is that content is more heavily restricted here based on class, but even so. There's a seriously underwhelming amount of quests on practically any planet. That's not true at all. Each planet in TOR are easily multiple zones in WoW. Additionally, there's more quests available in TOR than WoW... there's so many sidequests that people complain that there's too many. Add to that the FPs, Story quests, and PvP, and TOR has WAY more content than WoW did at launch, and more content than any MMO ever has at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 That's not true at all. Each planet in TOR are easily multiple zones in WoW. Additionally, there's more quests available in TOR than WoW... there's so many sidequests that people complain that there's too many. Add to that the FPs, Story quests, and PvP, and TOR has WAY more content than WoW did at launch, and more content than any MMO ever has at launch. Based on wowhead and torhead its like 9500 to 4200 / wow to tor in quests. Keep in mind that torhead is pretty jacked up right now and counts quests multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterzen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 are you saying those games aren't leading you by the leash? Cause all of them very clearly are. Even Sandbox MMOs like SWG was just leading you on a leash Can you explain to my how this statement is true? Did you ever play SWG pre nge/cu? Atleast in WoW which I don't play you have different regions on different continents and places in between that are the same level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Based on wowhead and torhead its like 9500 to 4200 / wow to tor in quests. Keep in mind that torhead is pretty jacked up right now and counts quests multiple times. Probably due to the fact that almost every quest has a bonus quest with a name, I wonder if torhead counted those too. Edited January 24, 2012 by failr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) That's not true at all. Each planet in TOR are easily multiple zones in WoW. Additionally, there's more quests available in TOR than WoW... there's so many sidequests that people complain that there's too many. Add to that the FPs, Story quests, and PvP, and TOR has WAY more content than WoW did at launch, and more content than any MMO ever has at launch. Is "each" planet really bigger in TOR? I mean zones like Tatooine which is probably the biggest, where the zone is just separated into several segments with impassable terrain making it appear bigger, or Nar Shadda which is even worse where only 20% if not less of the zone you can actually go to, or corelia etc As for the argument that "every MMO" out there leads you on a leash, that is just wrong, try UO, EVE or Darkfall Edited January 24, 2012 by failr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirfin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I guess the question for the OP is what makes it feel linear? Is it the class quests? Is it the fact that you can complete most everything on the first couple of planets without much searching? Or do you feel like the game isn't allowing you to go anywhere whenever? Personally I find myself at this point refusing multiple quests on every planet, abandoning quests I never got around to, and going back to planets I have already traversed to see some of the stuff I missed the first time. For me that's pretty non-linear. But if I stuck to the class quests, yea, it's pretty linear, and if you compare it to a game like Skyrim, it's like following a bunch of brick roads from point A to point B. that being said, there are a lot of different point As and Bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterzen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) All other MMO's are the same to say otherwise is either ignorant or just plain wrong for the sake of it. ALL have quest hubs, ALL have linking quests between them and ALL have quests you can pick up along they way. Tell me how does SWTOR differ so dramatically that it needs to be commented on? Wrong idiot, ever heard of planetside or SWG? Edited January 24, 2012 by Hunterzen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzhan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Uh...no it doesn't? There are significantly more zones per level range per faction in WoW than there are in this game. That is a fact. Therefore, WoW is less linear. /thread at low levels yes... when you reach 40th level you have 3 choices... and anfter 60 1 or 2... In any case if you arent a mage is boring travel from one continent to an another.. I would like to see how these ppl whinin' about linearity (yes TOR is linear btw but for me isnt a problem) with a more complex game... they would whine about scattering and difficulty to go from one planet to an another just to deliver a quest... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzhan Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It's a Bioware game, they have always been very linear. The 1st Baldurs gate wasnt so linear.. The story had a path but you wondered around for many and many zones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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