Double-bladed lightsaber why must we use this?

[Vlacke]

Double Blade lightsaber rocks.

[Zach_of_Corellia]

The double bladed lightsaber looks cool, but the vast majority of our animations look like utter crap. Our Companions get better animations than we do. I would kill for some of the sweet moves that Kira or Nadia have. I prefer watching them fight, to watching my own character fight.

 

Lightsabres are the single most iconic weapon in movie history, the look and feel of the combat should have been the number one priority...but....90% of the animations are very, very poor. The assassin/shadow should have been a whirling dervish of coolness.

They could have given jedi/sith different styles of animations. But they didn't .

 

I completely second that.

 

I think the overall limitations on lightsabers between Jedi is absolutely silly. Jedi are Jedi, they can all use the same lightsaber if they train hard enough. A consular should be able to dual wield if they want to, and a knight should be able to use a dual bladed saber if they want to, simple as that. It's about as dumb as the fact certain color crystals are limited by your dark/light side alignment.

 

 

And that one, too!

Edited February 13, 2012 by Zach_of_Corellia

[xxaconexx]

I think they should just allow us to disable one side of the saber, therefore making it single bladed, then add the second blade mid fight for epic finishers

[Serikahn]

I agree with the above use only one blade but 2 handed and second for finishers would be epic

[darthhavok]

What about using a single blade and going down the balanced/madness tree being that its mainly a caster? Does this spec use a lot of the attacks that "require" a double blade?

[Caelrie]

In the mid "naughties" a game called World of Warcraft launched, this game both revolutionized and then ultimately stagnated the MMO market. This game popularized (and then standardized) the fixed useage of weapon types to archtypes.

 

It lowered the average age of MMO gamers from late 20's to teens. This in turn changed the community to a more selfish, gear dependent and generally itemized one.

 

As a result of this, the focus changed from community to loot and as a result of that, you lost the concept of revolutionary sandbox style MMOs.

 

I'm sorry but none of that is actually true. It's just you hating that game and making up reasons for it. The average age of an MMO gamer remains 24 today, and all that community stuff is just nostalgia playing games with your brain. Everquest was about loot every bit as much as SWTOR.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Caelrie

[Aurich]

As far as I know, Bioware flat-out made all this AC stuff up. It's just like KOTOR, how they divided the Jedi into Guardians, Consulars, and Sentinels. Really, since KOTOR played just like a DnD mod, they were just force-wielding versions of Fighters, Wizards, and Rogues, respectively. I don't even mean that cynically; I find it kind of charming from a design perspective. But if you ever find yourself wondering about the lore of Shadows and Sentinels and whatnot, just know the answer is really simple. Fun classes come first, and you can make up any ol' ancient order of Jedi for them to belong to later.

[gurugeorge]

Don't know if anybody's linked this, but double-bladed lightsabers are very definitely canon, and part of their being canon is their being in KOTOR years before even TPM.

 

Also, anything invented by BW in this game automatically becomes canonical AFAIK, because it's done in conjunction with LucasArts and has therefore been "ok-ed" by them.

 

All the canonical stuff that's been introduced by "official" novels, comics and games like KOTOR and this game, are subject to override only by George Lucas himself.

 

So yeah, D-B LS is totally SW.

[Aurich]

Don't know if anybody's linked this, but double-bladed lightsabers are very definitely canon, and part of their being canon is their being in KOTOR years before even TPM.

 

Also, anything invented by BW in this game automatically becomes canonical AFAIK, because it's done in conjunction with LucasArts and has therefore been "ok-ed" by them.

 

All the canonical stuff that's been introduced by "official" novels, comics and games like KOTOR and this game, are subject to override only by George Lucas himself.

 

So yeah, D-B LS is totally SW.

 

The question isn't about whether or not they're canon at all, it's about the class and exclusivity.

 

To be clearer re: the OP, No. Before TOR, there was no such thing as a Jedi Shadow, and there's no canonical reason to restrict the double-bladed lightsaber to them.

Just like there was no such thing as a Jedi Sentinel before KOTOR, and dual-sabers were never exclusive to them before TOR. In KOTOR, Sentinels were just Jedi with extensive practical skills (stealth, lockpicking, trap-disarming, sound familiar?) in lieu of combat or force mastery, while in TOR they're like Fury Warriors. However canonical, it's all a function of the gameplay.

[gurugeorge]

The question isn't about whether or not they're canon at all, it's about the class and exclusivity.

 

To be clearer re: the OP, No. Before TOR, there was no such thing as a Jedi Shadow, and there's no canonical reason to restrict the double-bladed lightsaber to them.

Just like there was no such thing as a Jedi Sentinel before KOTOR, and dual-sabers were never exclusive to them before TOR. In KOTOR, Sentinels were just Jedi with extensive practical skills (stealth, lockpicking, trap-disarming, sound familiar?) in lieu of combat or force mastery, while in TOR they're like Fury Warriors. However canonical, it's all a function of the gameplay.

 

Of course, but it's also canon

 

i.e. whatever BW do in this game BECOMES canonical as soon as they introduce it, they don't need to restrict themselves solely to what was previously canonical, they are free to invent new canon. That's the whole point of them working with LucasArts.

 

e.g., things may have changed in the time since the KOTOR games, and now there are such things as Sentinels and Shadows, they don't need to base the existence of those on precedent.

[Inarai]

To be clearer re: the OP, No. Before TOR, there was no such thing as a Jedi Shadow, and there's no canonical reason to restrict the double-bladed lightsaber to them.

 

OF course, trying to come up with lore reasons is basically looking in the wrong place for the explanation...

[justadude]

In the mid "naughties" a game called World of Warcraft launched, this game both revolutionized and then ultimately stagnated the MMO market. This game popularized (and then standardized) the fixed useage of weapon types to archtypes.

 

It lowered the average age of MMO gamers from late 20's to teens. This in turn changed the community to a more selfish, gear dependent and generally itemized one.

 

As a result of this, the focus changed from community to loot and as a result of that, you lost the concept of revolutionary sandbox style MMOs.

 

Lets be sure to add that "revolutionized" does not mean "good", "improved" or any positive attribute at all. Many of WoWs systems design "work" but they are in fact truly a slap in the customers face.

 

It is really sad that a game like WoW became so popular.

[Sotaudi]

*snip*

 

However, I personally wish there was an option for a viable one handed Shadow.

 

*snip*

 

This is entirely possible if you get careless with your light saber.

[Sarezar]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Just wanted to say that I have a friend who wants to play with an Electrostaff. Many abilities and skills require doublebladed lightsaber, so he needs to choose a very particular type of playstyle to make the character work.

 

Even though I appreciate that a Jedi needs their lightsaber, giving the option to allow those skills and abilities with a weapon you are already proficient with could make the game a lot more fun for some people without taking anything out from the rest. Not everyone likes lightsabers...

[GFreeGamer]

What about using a single blade and going down the balanced/madness tree being that its mainly a caster? Does this spec use a lot of the attacks that "require" a double blade?

 

It won't work because you need your stance especially to trigger Breach for Force Strike.

Edited February 15, 2012 by GFreeGamer

[ArlindoGMNeto]

The double bladed lightsaber looks cool, but the vast majority of our animations look like utter crap. Our Companions get better animations than we do. I would kill for some of the sweet moves that Kira or Nadia have. I prefer watching them fight, to watching my own character fight.

 

That´s when you know something is wrong with this game...

[Savarous]

Creativity gave way to whatever insanity was going on in their heads. Part of the Star Wars lure is that you can imagine what kind of Jedi you want to be. Limiting lightsaber choice and usage to certain classes was never a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I love the game. Just wish some things weren't as such, like anyone else.

 

*Ahem*

---------------

 

Visitor 4: "Oh cool, I can be a Jedi."

 

Visitor 1: "Yeah, it's awesome!"

 

Visitor 4: "I think I'll be one that uses the force and has a single-bladed lightsaber."

 

Visitor 1: "Great! Then you'll want to be a Sage!"

 

Visitor 4: "Sounds cool!"

 

............

 

Visitor 4:"Wow, my lightsaber attacks are really weak."

 

Visitor 1:"Oh, you don't actually USE your lightsaber as a Sage."

 

Visitor 4: "... What?"

 

Visitor 1: "You just hold them and get better ones to improve your stats, but they activate when you do your force powers! See that? Vrooomm...! You look all cool standing there with it on, right?"

 

Visitor 4: "But what if I want to fight with my lightsaber and use the force a lot, like... Everyone in the movies, TV shows, comics, novels, magazines, newspapers, dictionaries, encyclopedias, and the U.S. Constitution?"

 

Visitor 1: "Oh, then you wanna be a Guardian."

 

Visitor 4: "Umm, alright fine. Can they use force powers?"

 

Visitor 1: "You get a force push!"

 

Visitor 4: "Is that all? My Sage can do that!"

 

Visitor 1: "Actually, he can't. But he can force push pebbles! Small tiny ones, you can imagine them getting into your enemy's eyes! Maybe their hair, too--and they're all like 'noooo, you're messing my hair and I lost my contacts' and stuff!"

 

Visitor 4: "Man, you're kinda freaking me--wait, what do you mean 'he can't?'"

 

Visitor 1: "And he can wave his hand and put this little orange tint of something that shatters like glass on his enemies! It doesn't force push them back or anything resembling Star Wars though."

 

Visitor 4: "Fun game, bro."

 

Visitor 1: "I know right? It's awesome!"

 

Visitor 2: "Jeez, keep it down already. Trying to read about this new hotfix they just scheduled in four hours."

 

-------------

 

It was a major mistake to limit lightsaber type by what classes you play as. Every force user should have been allowed to choose whatever lightsaber they wanted AND be able to use it effectively.

 

Abilities that require certain types of lightsabers should have been taught at the trainer so that the player can choose for himself what kinds of abilities he would want depending on what kind of lightsaber he was brandishing. Talent trees should have been left alone as far as riddling it with specific weapon types requirements.

 

In other words, there had to have been a better way to set this up.

 

---

 

I read that in beta, there used to be a sage specced class that could effectively fight with their single-bladed lightsaber. What happened to that?

 

I ended up being a shadow because I wanted a balanced mix of force powers and lightsaber combat. My first choice was with the sage, because the single-bladed lightsaber was iconic and stylish (I see many who agree too ). Ultimately, I abandoned the class because I realized there was no way to play it effectively and actually USE my lightsaber at the same time.

 

The train of my thoughts:

 

------------------

I thought the guardian would be master at lightsaber combat and have a meager use of a few force abilities. Was relatively right in that area.

 

I thought the sage would be a master of the force and have a meager use of a few combat lightsaber abilities. -- Instead, you NEVER use it and are gimped if you try.

------------------

Boom!

 

What happened?

 

That is such a poor gameplay decision. Part of being a Jedi (and the fun of it) is USING your lightsaber! Who on the development team did NOT get that? Being a sage should not be a punishable non-lightsaber experience.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Savarous

[Ekemeister]

i think that the only skill that requires a double bladed saber is the execute skill and maybe clairvoyant strike/voltaic slash.

[Selgard]

Liking it or not aside, the answer of why is very simple.

 

They want classes easily identifyable for PVP.

 

You see someone in heavy armor with a 1h saber, you know what's likely to happen compared to some dude in a robe with 1 saber.

You see dual sabers you know whats coming compared to saberstaff.

 

The exact same thing is true of the rifle/assault cannon variation as well as the single/double pistol.

 

The Imps have it the same way for theirs.

 

Given that clothing *generally* looks the same for both jedi classes (robe'ish looking things, compared to what troopers/BH/smuggies/IA's wear), the weapon is the most clearly identifyable thing.

 

Its the same reason they give defensive and offensive buffs a very specific flasy/glowy effect. So folks see it and know whats going on.

 

Game play will always trump how we want something to look- especially when we all want our look to be completely "whatever i want to look like today".

 

So while I am content for my jedi tanks to wield 1 saber and a saberstaff respectively, and for my DPS'ers to dual wield and kill or single wield a stat stick, I'm content to know that for all but one of them i can just swap out a vibrosword if I chose. (and I have so chosen, at least on my sentinel).

 

I do +1 the use of electrostaves though. Especially if they come out wth a few more than don't look like lampshades. (I'd love one that actually looked like a two-bladed staff, as impractical as an actual weapona s it'd be).

 

edited for spelling though I probably still missed a few.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Selgard

[tXHereticXt]

Was this perhaps an animation issue?

 

Nope, at least I wouldn't think so. It's just meant to give you a sen of individuality from the twin spec of a Sage/Sorcerer.

 

 

What bugs me are the skills that require DBLS, effectively gimping your build if you're to use an electrostaff.

[Onikcys]

This is simply untrue. I played SWG, which came out before WoW, and I had weapons restrictions based on class (profession).

 

That isn't entirely true, though weapon proficiencies were linked to proffesions you were still able to equip and use weapons you weren't proficient in, though you did encure a damage penalty. In some cases it was, however, advisable to use weapons you werent proficient in.

[Aurich]

I agree that it would have been ideal to leave the choice up to the player, and if this was a single-player RPG they certainly would have gone that route.

 

But since this is an MMO, and balance is so much harrier, and they've chosen a business model that only works for WoW, and their own production costs are astronomical, I don't really hold it against them. And for what it's worth, I think they've done an excellent job covering a wide range of playstyles with the different AC builds.

 

My Focus Guardian is a madman with that single saber, and his force attacks hit like a ton of bricks. My Balance Shadow throws boulders all over the place and tears guys up in melee, and I don't even have to use stealth (which I find kinda silly). I was afraid I was going to be forced to play a character I wasn't interested in, but that didn't happen, and I think most players can find something they really like.

[Xerihae]

Two reasons already stated in the thread:

 

1 - Lack of time/development resources to do three different animations. Take Double Strike. You'd need two more animations for that based on whether you were using a single saber or dual-wielding. Now do that for every Shadow skill that uses the saber. Now do it for EVERY Knight/Consular skill that uses the saber...

 

2 - PvP argument. I hate this. Why should my options for customisation, like I was freely able to do in KotOR, be restricted by the minority who do PvP? You might be a vocal bunch on the forum, but in every single MMO except open-PvP ones the numbers repeatedly show that those who participate in PvP on a regular basis are in a decided minority. There are other ways to add visual identifiers, a set colour glow around characters for example. I don't want my skills and other stuff being nerfed and messed around with because you lot come and whine on the forum that so-and-so handed you your butt, and the current FOTM spec is a n00bcannon etc.

 

Hopefully at some point they'll have the time to do the extra animations, although to be honest I'd rather they do some extra animations for the current classes as they are. Double Strike is used way too often to have that single boring animation, I'm sick of seeing it already.

[Zach_of_Corellia]

I want to second Savarous in everything he sais. If Bioware wants to give us the true Star Wars experience from the movies they should not end half way.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am completely thrilled by the great voice-acting, the really good story-lines and the atmosphere in general.

 

But then again, why does everything have to be so deadlocked by coupling decisions like which lightsaber you want to use, or which force techniques you want to learn to a class. It's a little frustrating to me to be restricted like that. Nobody said to Obi-Wan or to Yoda, that they weren't allowed to move objects because the were skilled in using their lightsaber efficiently. (With Yoda even beeing a master of Ataru-Style)

 

I'm just afraid this idea is not in accordance with this (from my point of view) uninspired mentalty that you have to have this division in only three base-classes: healer, damage-dealer and tank. Something that most people here will call "game mechanincs".

 

It plays bad to be something in between healer and damage dealer? Fine, but maybe thats still what I want? Maybe I dont want to play the most effective? Maybe I just want to play whats the most fun to me to see oder imagine?

 

Plus, I dont get why all those decisions should be concerned with identifying your enemy in PvP according to his or her appearance? Just do a mouse-over/click and you know whom you are up against.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zach_of_Corellia

[Jedikillar]

If my abilities said "Require Double-Bladed Lightsaber or Electrostaff" I'd be a happy man.

 

idk how old this thread is, so i may be necroing, but you can use electrostaves and still use all your abilities. just like guardians or sents can substitute vibroblades for their lightsabers(guardian with trooper armor and a huge vibroblade from balmorra commendations ftw).

 

on topic, if you switch to your dblsaber, activate your technique, then switch to single saber, its still active so you can still use discharge too. not a huge bonus considering how much else you cant use but still. I love the look of consular/sage melee animations, and i really wish shadow could use a single saber. doublesabers are too big, and clumsy.