Do you report offensive behavior that occurs in general chat?

[Sunsoar]

People report people because it makes them feel powerful.

 

You can simply ignore them and continue on. If you take the time to report them you can instead just add them to ignore list.

 

If someone is directing their degrading remarks durectly to then yeah probably report them.

[Appletaz]

I decided to level up an alt, and when I got to DK, i was pretty astounded at the subject matter discussed there.

 

Yes, I am a well seasoned, older gamer, and have a very spicy vocabulary, which I don't mind using or reading. I am not shy nor am I afraid to state my feelings.

 

But the depravity of the discussions going on constantly and insistently during my time at DK provoked me for the first time in my 7 year MMO game-playing to remove myself from General Chat. Also, for the first time in this game I put a person on ignore, before it became apparent that I needed to just get rid of /1. I have been playing since September through Beta and the retail release. There was no way I was going to take the time to list and report each and every one of them or ignore each and everyone of them. That is ridiculous.

 

While I understand young men think it is really cool to be misogynists and to make lewd suggestions to every response, when it is an onslaught of 80 people at once, it gets a little much.

 

When I was finished, I sent a ticket in to BW. My point only was there needs to be some moderation by the company that runs this game, and to not let immature boys and girls go amok simply because they have this "freedom" of speech and the "protection" of a language filter.

[trickortreat]

No that's dumb. I just /ignore

[Mazaroth]

No that's dumb. I just /ignore

 

lol I love the thought you put into this. Really.

[Gilpatric]

When the OP said, 'what do you do when your Ignore List is full?' we learned everything we need to know. Those of you fortunate enough to be on his/her server should be thankful that this Guardian of the Public Weal is on the job, imposing his moral and social sensibilities for the good of all.

 

It's a dirty job, but Thank God someone is willing to step up.

[Kabjat]

Everyone pays to play this game, so everyone should be able to do what they want to do!

 

If you don't like it /ignore and shut up about it!

 

 

This is false. Also, /ignore is not the solution for the reasons I have already stated.

 

Just because a person pays for a service does not mean that they have free reign to say or do anything they please especially when others are affected. Especially when certain behavior is expressly against the rules.

 

You go out to eat to a restaurant. Everyone there are paying customers who PAID for the atmosphere, the food and drink, and the time to sit at a table and have said food and drink brought to them to enjoy. Jimbob takes a dare from his buddies and strips down to his whitey tighties and does the Truffle Shuffle.

 

Naked Jimbob is just as much a paying customer. Will he be allowed to continue his dancing debut in the buff just because he FEELS like it? Why should other paying customers have to see that?

 

Why is SWTOR any different? I know my example is absurd, but I believe a parallel can be drawn.

[Mazaroth]

edited Edited January 26, 2012 by Mazaroth

[NoahJenda]

I usually ignore most idle chat in General chat, unless it is directed at me. But once you leave the first 2 worlds, you don't see much of the trolling.

 

[sarcasm]

But a game that has sex, violence(death) and moral/immoral delimas in it and you ask about something in chat being offensive? Including but not limitied to, sex with a Dark Lord, Sex with a Companion, (both being pre-marital), Bombs that kill innocents, trapping women and children in a hangar bay so they cannot escape when you blow up the space port, killing a boys father infront of him and forcing him to be Sith, racism and slavery.... None of these bother you, but a few words in chat might.

[/sarcasm]

[Brosephiine]

This is false. Also, /ignore is not the solution for the reasons I have already stated.

 

Just because a person pays for a service does not mean that they have free reign to say or do anything they please especially when others are affected. Especially when certain behavior is expressly against the rules.

 

You go out to eat to a restaurant. Everyone there are paying customers who PAID for the atmosphere, the food and drink, and the time to sit at a table and have said food and drink brought to them to enjoy. Jimbob takes a dare from his buddies and strips down to his whitey tighties and does the Truffle Shuffle.

 

Naked Jimbob is just as much a paying customer. Will he be allowed to continue his dancing debut in the buff just because he FEELS like it? Why should other paying customers have to see that?

 

Why is SWTOR any different? I know my example is absurd, but I believe a parallel can be drawn.

 

Best example ever. I lol'd.

[ImperialRebel]

There are several things players can do when they come across offensive behavior in-game, though most people don't follow the 'civil' order.

 

The first option is to simply not respond.

The second option, is to politely and calmly tell the offending party to stop.

The third option, if the offending party does not respond to your request, is to /ignore said offender(s).

The fourth option; if the offending party continues or increases their offensive behavior or directs it at you, is to file a report (you could file one for the offensive behavior and then another for harassment).

 

Nowhere in the EULA/Forum rules does it say you should continue dialogue with the offending party beyond asking them to 'politely' stop.

 

Nowhere in the EULA or Forum rules does it say that it is appropriate behavior for the person filing an 'offensive' report, to continually voice their disapproval of the offending players behavior. We've all been told what and how to respond to offensive behavior by BioWare. Follow it. For people that go against these rules/guidelines, all that you accomplish is the exacerbation of a minor issue into a larger one.

 

It should come as no surprise that a simple issue of offensive behavior can, and often does, devolve into harassment. People are ignorant but also irrationally sensitive/entitled in settings where they face no serious physical and/or harmful repercussions to their person. This irrationality increases in online settings. Even if there are appropriate repercussions to offensive players, some don't heed the warnings and/or punishments and continue their behavior. There is nothing you can do about this situation beyond the steps listed above, to remove yourself from these situations.

 

Nobody's ego is no bigger than anyone else's. A player's profession, and outside life mean nothing in the game-world. Nobody is more entitled to special treatment in the game-world or forums than another player is. In the instance that players purchased the Collectors Edition of the game, those people are only afforded special items to enhance their gameplay, not diminish others.

Edited January 26, 2012 by ImperialRebel
Inconsistent ordering of reporting options between title and post.

[Kabjat]

I usually ignore most idle chat in General chat, unless it is directed at me. But once you leave the first 2 worlds, you don't see much of the trolling.

 

[sarcasm]

But a game that has sex, violence(death) and moral/immoral delimas in it and you ask about something in chat being offensive? Including but not limitied to, sex with a Dark Lord, Sex with a Companion, (both being pre-marital), Bombs that kill innocents, trapping women and children in a hangar bay so they cannot escape when you blow up the space port, killing a boys father infront of him and forcing him to be Sith, racism and slavery.... None of these bother you, but a few words in chat might.

[/sarcasm]

 

 

I usually ignore chat as well, even more so than I did when playing WoW. I'm tired of having to do that, you see. I'm tired of being told to just /ignore the ones that offend me and move on. People who have called me self righteous and passive aggressive and a busy body don't get the big picture here or even WHY I brought up this topic.

 

It's not about the content of the GAME, which is not up for discussion here, it's about the WILLFUL behavior of the playerbase that clearly doesn't care that they are disturbing others and breaking the rules.

 

I really cannot understand why there is such a hostile attitude toward those of us who merely want the rules followed. I cannot understand why it is so difficult to curtail clearly offensive behavior in a public setting. I cannot understand why it is seen as 'ruining the fun of paying customers' when they are reported for violating the ToS and rules of conduct. The only conclusion I can draw from it is an inherent selfishness and viewpoint that NO ONE ELSE's comfort matters.

 

Oh well, thank you to all of you who have offered your feedback and opinions. Whether or not they went along with mine, the discourse was a good one.

[Kabjat]

Best example ever. I lol'd.

 

Goonie for Life! xD

[NoahJenda]

I usually ignore chat as well, even more so than I did when playing WoW. I'm tired of having to do that, you see. I'm tired of being told to just /ignore the ones that offend me and move on. People who have called me self righteous and passive aggressive and a busy body don't get the big picture here or even WHY I brought up this topic.

 

It's not about the content of the GAME, which is not up for discussion here, it's about the WILLFUL behavior of the playerbase that clearly doesn't care that they are disturbing others and breaking the rules.

 

I really cannot understand why there is such a hostile attitude toward those of us who merely want the rules followed. I cannot understand why it is so difficult to curtail clearly offensive behavior in a public setting. I cannot understand why it is seen as 'ruining the fun of paying customers' when they are reported for violating the ToS and rules of conduct. The only conclusion I can draw from it is an inherent selfishness and viewpoint that NO ONE ELSE's comfort matters.

 

Oh well, thank you to all of you who have offered your feedback and opinions. Whether or not they went along with mine, the discourse was a good one.

 

Maybe sarcasm was the wrong word. Irony may have been a better choice. I was just trying to point out, why have Game Content like this and a TOS that could be seen as contradictory.

 

My post wasn't meant as anything negative towards you or any one else. I don't try to offend anyone, but I don't go out of my way not to offend. Sometimes a discussion gets out of hand, which is why I avoid 2 topics in a public chat/forum... Religion and Polotics.

[DarthHeir]

A lot of D-bags on the Internet. I generally ignore the person unless they're overtly degrading another player or being extreme sexist/racist/etc.

 

On my server so far though, I've honestly only encountered one person whom I felt I had to report. Maybe I just got lucky with my server selection?

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthHeir

[KindBudhArsh]

Its common sense... if ppl dont want to suffer the consequences of not having manners in a public enviroment, then they can get reported. Mainly these are the same ppl who dont mind the reprecussions and actually prefer the attention anyways. Whats the term? Famous or Infamous, any publicity is good publicity?

[Kabjat]

Maybe sarcasm was the wrong word. Irony may have been a better choice. I was just trying to point out, why have Game Content like this and a TOS that could be seen as contradictory.

 

My post wasn't meant as anything negative towards you or any one else. I don't try to offend anyone, but I don't go out of my way not to offend. Sometimes a discussion gets out of hand, which is why I avoid 2 topics in a public chat/forum... Religion and Polotics.

 

 

Oh I understand where you are coming from lol. I didn't take offense. And you actually bring up a valid point about the game being full of the very thing I am speaking out against. Irony aside, I guess I just want and expect more from my fellow players. I honestly don't see when there is EVER a good reason to act the way some people act in public (public meaning general chat). And some of the people DEFENDING that type of behavior and making people like ME out to be the bad guy blows my mind too. The reality of all of this is I have RARELY reported a player for being offensive. My reaction has always been to just turn off chat.

 

But lately I have become TIRED of doing that. That is why I started this thread. I'm tired of remaining silent and constantly feeling like I have no place in this game simply because I want nothing to do with the gutter filth that scrolls across chat on a rather frequent basis. /ignore only works to a point and turning off chat is NOT a solution like some people have stated. It robs me of a part of the game that I am JUST as entitled to as they are. How dare THEY tell me what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT offend me? Who are THEY to judge me for simply wanting a healthier, more welcoming community for everyone?

[Kabjat]

There are several things players can do when they come across offensive behavior in-game, though most people don't follow the 'civil' order.

 

The first option is to simply not respond.

The second option, is to politely and calmly tell the offending party to stop.

The third option, if the offending party does not respond to your request, is to /ignore said offender(s).

The fourth option; if the offending party continues or increases their offensive behavior or directs it at you, is to file a report (you could file one for the offensive behavior and then another for harassment).

 

Nowhere in the EULA/Forum rules does it say you should continue dialogue with the offending party beyond asking them to 'politely' stop.

 

Yes, this. I have actually whispered someone who was getting out of control in chat and asked them to please stop. They seemed surprised that there was even an issue but apologized politely and profusely. The trolling stopped. Of course, that was a one time occurrence. I would never outright report someone before whispering them.

 

Nowhere in the EULA or Forum rules does it say that it is appropriate behavior for the person filing an 'offensive' report, to continually voice their disapproval of the offending players behavior. We've all been told what and how to respond to offensive behavior by BioWare. Follow it. For people that go against these rules/guidelines, all that you accomplish is the exacerbation of a minor issue into a larger one.

 

This is true. People who are shrill and militant about what they consider inappropriate is just as harmful as the offenders themselves. I will emphatically state that I am NOT one of those people. lol

 

It should come as no surprise that a simple issue of offensive behavior can, and often does, devolve into harassment. People are ignorant but also irrationally sensitive/entitled in settings where they face no serious physical and/or harmful repercussions to their person. This irrationality increases in online settings. Even if there are appropriate repercussions to offensive players, some don't heed the warnings and/or punishments and continue their behavior. There is nothing you can do about this situation beyond the steps listed above, to remove yourself from these situations.

 

I am, for the most part, in complete agreement with you. You may be surprised or even dubious when I say that I have not really reported anyone in-game. The moment things have made me uncomfortable, I just leave chat. I learned my lesson in wow that a good rule is Do Not Engage the trolls. I agree also that people do become irrational in an online environment. My point, however, in this thread has been centered around the issue of, not confronting offenders, but rather exercising our right as players to report behavior that offends us. Whatever action the GM takes against the offender is not up to us.

 

 

Nobody's ego is no bigger than anyone else's. A player's profession, and outside life mean nothing in the game-world. Nobody is more entitled to special treatment in the game-world or forums than another player is. In the instance that players purchased the Collectors Edition of the game, those people are only afforded special items to enhance their gameplay, not diminish others.

 

Well said.

 

 

answered this post in green.

[Uruare]

Every time I hear or read someone going on about 'protecting the children' from things like swear words or sexual references, I feel maliciously inclined to find a child, teach them a swear word and tell them what their mommy and daddy did to make them. If I didn't think doing such would be blatantly stupid, I very well might.

 

 

I am offended by people that are offended by reality. While we (I at least) muse upon the nuances of irony in that, I'll move along.

 

 

I, personally, don't find sexual references or even most vulgarity to be offensive. Point in case, I find it to be informative. People tell you an awful lot about themselves when they think they're beyond the reach of consequences, and I'm very fond of seeing what people say and how they say it in a, shall we say, unabridged format.

 

 

I do not subscribe to any religion or philosophy dictating any templates of good/bad, right/wrong, moral/taboo to me, and I find that alone removes a great deal of the cause for, and purpose to, being offended by a great deal in the first place.

 

Stupidity, willful ignorance and embarassingly poor reasoning skills...can offend me. Of all the things that can offend me, they assuredly can to the greatest degree, but ignorance must be willful to offend me. Those that could not be reasonably expected to know better about something in question cannot offend me with that ignorance.

 

Stupidity I loosely define as general, childlike or even animalistic malice. Those that do things or say things that have absolutely no purpose or originating point other than to simply be cruel to somebody else? Stupid, and more than stupid, highly deserving (in my thinking) of disdain and ridicule.

 

Being an individual of admittedly towering ego for reasons varied and many, well earned and absurdly inane all alike, I also term rampant egotism as being stupid. Unless you're an emotionally beat-down closet-dwelling churchmouse that reflexively vomits apologies whenever anything seems like something was anybody's fault, egotism can be a terrible problem.

 

Blinding. Leads with the greatest of ease into thinking you know things you don't, are better than you are in any number of (or all) ways, and often serves as the locus for why issues that could barely be called problems at all under any reasonable scrutiny can explode into mind-boggling dilemmas..

 

I'm an egotist. I know very damn well what the pitfalls and pratfalls are. Let's call it experience and leave it at that as for why.

 

Hiding behind the attempt at emotional appeal and simultaneously hedge one's position behind presumed sacrosanct moralization by presenting anything in such mediums as these behind a 'think of the children' barrier had better be in regards to safeguarding not just the children, but everybody, from predatory elements.

 

Stalkers, internet pedophiles, psychologically and emotionally abusive predators that maliciously seek the easily controlled and do whatever they can to whatever extent they are willing and able to manage to control them to their uncared-for detriment?

 

Yeah. But that's not an issue limited to children. In fact, those attempting to posture their positions behind mental images of dimpled cheeks and innocent toddler-eyes do the very topics of their own concern a great disservice, because I assure you, the problems of predatory individuals are not limited to children.

 

And you're just simple and dim if you think swear words or sexual references aren't common, taboo-bepedestalled fodder for Little Timmy and Little Susan anyway. There's an amazingly good chance that your ten year old children have healthy vocabularies of swear words (that they probably learned many of from you) and are well on their way to being sexually obsessed and simultaneously ignorant well into their 20's.

 

And that all comes around to parenting. Don't expect a bloody game to protect your precious children from -words-.

 

That onus, good parents, is yours. They will encounter those words. Here, at school, on television, from over the fence when a neighbor's fighting with his wife, amongst other children.

 

You want to shield them? Do it yourself. You're the parent, that's your decision to make. Overdo it and they'll have good cause to send you the therapy bills in their adult lives to make attempts at straightening out the damage over-protective and overbearingly censoring parents commonly do, but it's still your job.

 

YOU, not SWTOR, not WOW, not Dr. House M.D on the television, not even Sunnyvale's School for the Gifted, can be realistically expected to do your job.

 

You're the buffer. They're going to learn the swear words; teach them as best you can what they mean, why they should or shouldn't say them. Let it be known that there will be social consequences and, quite possibly, personal consequences if they make bad decisions with that information.

 

TOR already has a profanity filter. The EULA's pretty clear, if almost as wordy as I am.

 

Their forum moderators are a finnicky lot that sometimes moderate on people just for being -rude-, even if it was civvily rude and had no namecalling or swearing at all!

 

In game? You can, in this and many games, /ignore absolutely anybody. It's more or less permanent. One click; pop, they practically stop existing in any way that will ever be very relevant to you at all.

 

WHat more do you expect of them? What more can you at all realistically expect when they've already given us; all of us; all the tools we need to, if our own judgement isn't garbage, shape our own social proximities?

 

They have very attentive moderators here on the forum. Believe me, I'm averaging two warnings a week, I'm getting pretty keen to how attentive the mods are.

 

That's a good thing. Good for SWTOR, good for us. If I wind up with a temporary ban for accruing too many points because I'm a bullheaded verbal equivalent of a boot to the face....ok! I probably earned it, because I -am- rude!

 

Do you, any of you, suppose Bioware should...what, exactly? Hire nannies to come into our homes and look over our shoulders while we play?

 

An army of invisible GM police that stalk the servers and silence anybody that could be offending somebody?

 

Here's the TL;DR summary.

 

If the tools available to you along with the safeguards and measures provided already are somehow insufficient for navigating and selectively excising from your social proximity anyone and everyone you deem unfit, for any or no reason at all, it is your judgement that is in absence.

 

Tools are there; use them. Assuming your judgement functions in any manner that is copacetic to your healthy interests, use it.

 

The end.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Uruare

[Darth_Urtani]

Nope, but maybe it's because I don't get offended by people who cough.

[Appletaz]

They have very attentive moderators here on the forum. Believe me, I'm averaging two warnings a week, I'm getting pretty keen to how attentive the mods are.

 

That's a good thing. Good for SWTOR, good for us. If I wind up with a temporary ban for accruing too many points because I'm a bullheaded verbal equivalent of a boot to the face....ok! I probably earned it, because I -am- rude!

 

Do you, any of you, suppose Bioware should...what, exactly? Hire nannies to come into our homes and look over our shoulders while we play?

 

An army of invisible GM police that stalk the servers and silence anybody that could be offending somebody?

 

Yes, I do expect there to be a certain level of decorum and I expect BW to care about that there is. We are not talking about an offending word or two... we are talking about hours' long conversations and attitudes that cannot be stopped, and if you try, the get more depraved and they think they are soooooooooooooo awesome and cool.

 

The fact that you don't care about what that guy could do to a woman with that utensil (and it is elaborated upon and described in great detail over and over) doesn't mean it should be an acceptable behavior or tolerated by BW or the population of the servers.

 

I have never played a game where this kind of discussion is freely accepted. There has ALWAYS been some moderation and penalties extended and warnings given. Are you saying that unless I'm 12-year-old mental giant and obsessed with weird sexual ideas and profound misogyny, I don't have any rights at all? Come on.

 

The other point is that /1 is a socialization channel. I also have a right to socialize in that channel and not be subjected to depravity, just because they can.

[Uruare]

Yes, I do expect there to be a certain level of decorum and I expect BW to care about that there is. We are not talking about an offending word or two... we are talking about hours' long conversations and attitudes that cannot be stopped, and if you try, the get more depraved and they think they are soooooooooooooo awesome and cool.

 

I'm familiar with the extremity of which you speak, certainly. Beyond just the /ignore function, you can also report people for more than just spam, yes?

 

To my understanding, you can give detailed and very elaborate reports. If you take screenshots and tab out, there are even existing channels for submitting such things to Customer Service, are there not?

 

While I certainly and absolutely agree that a standard of decorum very well ought to be, beyond passively suggested, enforced...I also believe that the greatest source of that enforcement is, must be and ever ought to remain ourselves via utilizing those channels.

 

Do you disagree?

 

 

The fact that you don't care about what that guy could do to a woman with that utensil (and it is elaborated upon and described in great detail over and over) doesn't mean it should be an acceptable behavior or tolerated by BW or the population of the servers.

 

In such cases as that you reference in examplification, I would almost certainly be taking screenshots and firing them off to customer service along with as much time/place/server information as that would assist them in identifying the individuals quickly and efficiently and dealing with them.

 

I, personally, in addition to being a towering egotist, am also a toweringly intolerant-of-misogyny-and-racism sort. That's just me though; the tools and channels are there for anybody to essentially submit whatever to the appropriate representatives' determinations.

 

 

 

I have never played a game where this kind of discussion is freely accepted. There has ALWAYS been some moderation and penalties extended and warnings given. Are you saying that unless I'm 12-year-old mental giant and obsessed with weird sexual ideas and profound misogyny, I don't have any rights at all? Come on.

 

The other point is that /1 is a socialization channel. I also have a right to socialize in that channel and not be subjected to depravity, just because they can.

 

 

Not at all, no. But again, the channels exist for YOU to address these things through. If YOU do nothing when you see those things; if YOU do not report that which you feel very well ought to be; they might never even know it happened.

 

It's a process. At worst, in my own thinking, I'd say that they have perhaps not done quite enough to specifically draw attention to all of these tools and methods of address plainly in game.

 

That would be a shaky position that I wouldn't feel entirely well-founded in taking, but its possibly the worst thing that could be said of the matter, at least from my point of view.

 

Do you disagree there at all?

[Appletaz]

I'm familiar with the extremity of which you speak, certainly. Beyond just the /ignore function, you can also report people for more than just spam, yes?

 

To my understanding, you can give detailed and very elaborate reports. If you take screenshots and tab out, there are even existing channels for submitting such things to Customer Service, are there not?

 

While I certainly and absolutely agree that a standard of decorum very well ought to be, beyond passively suggested, enforced...I also believe that the greatest source of that enforcement is, must be and ever ought to remain ourselves via utilizing those channels.

 

Do you disagree?

 

I do not disagree. I also did those things, though I didn't say that I did. I didn't think that it was necessary to expound upon what actions I took. I didn't take screenshots, though perhaps I should have. I took it upon myself to use the tools, like /ignore and /spam a lot.

 

My purpose was to respond to you that policing the chat channels IS important and it is the job of BW to do it. The players can assist them with information and details. But they should set the standard.

 

Playful banter is one thing, and should be allowed and tolerated. The kind of things I saw in chat, well, they should be addressed and brought into perspective.

 

It was out of control. Not just on that one day, but the next two days as well. And then when I had to return to DK for my class quest, it was there as well.

 

But I find lectures from players here in the forums that tell me that this kind of behavior should be expected and tolerated because of some odd reason in their minds about their rights and how we as the playerbase simply have to remove ourselves from the social part of this game so that they can freely express themselves. I'm also actually pretty sure few of them have ever had a sexual encounter or whatever. Their imaginations should be kept to themselves. Especially when it is out of control. And f the playerbase doesn't put up with it, they won't get the kind of acceptance that makes /1 in DK a breeding grounds.

 

Do you disagree?

[Kabjat]

Every time I hear or read someone going on about 'protecting the children' from things like swear words or sexual references, I feel maliciously inclined to find a child, teach them a swear word and tell them what their mommy and daddy did to make them. If I didn't think doing such would be blatantly stupid, I very well might.

 

 

I am offended by people that are offended by reality. While we (I at least) muse upon the nuances of irony in that, I'll move along.

 

 

I, personally, don't find sexual references or even most vulgarity to be offensive. Point in case, I find it to be informative. People tell you an awful lot about themselves when they think they're beyond the reach of consequences, and I'm very fond of seeing what people say and how they say it in a, shall we say, unabridged format.

 

Your sensibilities DO NOT reflect those of others and it is EXCEEDINGLY ARROGANT to presume that they do. Get over yourself.

 

 

I do not subscribe to any religion or philosophy dictating any templates of good/bad, right/wrong, moral/taboo to me, and I find that alone removes a great deal of the cause for, and purpose to, being offended by a great deal in the first place.

 

But anyone who DOES subscribe to such things? I suppose their sensibilities would be irrelevant and should not be taken into consideration? WoW....just WOW.

 

Stupidity, willful ignorance and embarassingly poor reasoning skills...can offend me. Of all the things that can offend me, they assuredly can to the greatest degree, but ignorance must be willful to offend me. Those that could not be reasonably expected to know better about something in question cannot offend me with that ignorance.

 

Stupidity I loosely define as general, childlike or even animalistic malice. Those that do things or say things that have absolutely no purpose or originating point other than to simply be cruel to somebody else? Stupid, and more than stupid, highly deserving (in my thinking) of disdain and ridicule.

 

So why are you ranting at me for wishing to exercise my RIGHT to report such things? If these things are worthy of your disdain, why attack someone for wishing to do something about it? Ahhh...I read your next gem and the circular reasoning kicks in...hmm.

Being an individual of admittedly towering ego for reasons varied and many, well earned and absurdly inane all alike, I also term rampant egotism as being stupid. Unless you're an emotionally beat-down closet-dwelling churchmouse that reflexively vomits apologies whenever anything seems like something was anybody's fault, egotism can be a terrible problem.

 

Blinding. Leads with the greatest of ease into thinking you know things you don't, are better than you are in any number of (or all) ways, and often serves as the locus for why issues that could barely be called problems at all under any reasonable scrutiny can explode into mind-boggling dilemmas..

 

I'm an egotist. I know very damn well what the pitfalls and pratfalls are. Let's call it experience and leave it at that as for why.

 

Hiding behind the attempt at emotional appeal and simultaneously hedge one's position behind presumed sacrosanct moralization by presenting anything in such mediums as these behind a 'think of the children' barrier had better be in regards to safeguarding not just the children, but everybody, from predatory elements.

 

The previous four paragraphs you have written pretty much made me laugh and shake my head at your close mindedness. The last sentence here makes ZERO sense. You have assumed my reasons for wanting to speak out about this issue. This is not about morality and the fact that you MAKE it about morality is really sad and pathetic. This is about reporting people who break the rules. I personally AM offended by some of the things I see in chat. If you read this whole thread, you will see I am by far not the only one. Who are YOU to look down your nose and tell me I'm WRONG because what I consider offensive doesn't line up with what you consider offensive?

 

Stalkers, internet pedophiles, psychologically and emotionally abusive predators that maliciously seek the easily controlled and do whatever they can to whatever extent they are willing and able to manage to control them to their uncared-for detriment?

 

Yeah. But that's not an issue limited to children. In fact, those attempting to posture their positions behind mental images of dimpled cheeks and innocent toddler-eyes do the very topics of their own concern a great disservice, because I assure you, the problems of predatory individuals are not limited to children.

 

And you're just simple and dim if you think swear words or sexual references aren't common, taboo-bepedestalled fodder for Little Timmy and Little Susan anyway. There's an amazingly good chance that your ten year old children have healthy vocabularies of swear words (that they probably learned many of from you) and are well on their way to being sexually obsessed and simultaneously ignorant well into their 20's.

 

You are so far removed from the point of this thread that it's not even funny anymore. I got a good laugh out of this when I first started reading it....but now, I think you just like to hear yourself talk and read the words you type. For that matter, I would never take parenting advice from someone like you. I know how to effectively protect my own and I certainly don't require a high-handed, arrogant, and misinformed lecture from someone who seems ANGRY at the idea that a parent would even WANT to shield their kids. *shakes head* Alas, that is NOT the point however.

 

And that all comes around to parenting. Don't expect a bloody game to protect your precious children from -words-.

 

K, I really cannot take you seriously for all of the ignorant assumptions you have made in this post....this...rant. Reading comprehension should be something you already possess with all of the $10 words you have used. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BAD WORDS. MY POST IS ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE, RACIST, SEXIST, AND THREATENING REFUSE THAT SCROLLS ACROSS CHAT AND CANNOT BE AVOIDED! MY POST IS ABOUT HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE RULES AND TERMS THEY AGREED TO WHEN THEY BOUGHT THE GAME. Is that statement that I have made constantly on this thread mysteriously blanked out and censored on some people's computer screens? Or is it a willful decision to not process the viewpoint of anyone else in favor of coming off as arrogant and close minded?

That onus, good parents, is yours. They will encounter those words. Here, at school, on television, from over the fence when a neighbor's fighting with his wife, amongst other children.

 

You want to shield them? Do it yourself. You're the parent, that's your decision to make. Overdo it and they'll have good cause to send you the therapy bills in their adult lives to make attempts at straightening out the damage over-protective and overbearingly censoring parents commonly do, but it's still your job.

 

Nice job lecturing people on something that has ZERO TO DO with the topic at hand. This isn't about parenting or anyone's children. This is about reporting offensive and inflammatory topics that blow up in chat. Why is this so hard to understand? Why does it offend YOU so much that I exercise my right to report such things?

YOU, not SWTOR, not WOW, not Dr. House M.D on the television, not even Sunnyvale's School for the Gifted, can be realistically expected to do your job.

 

You're the buffer. They're going to learn the swear words; teach them as best you can what they mean, why they should or shouldn't say them. Let it be known that there will be social consequences and, quite possibly, personal consequences if they make bad decisions with that information.

 

 

TOR already has a profanity filter. The EULA's pretty clear, if almost as wordy as I am.

 

Again...I'll type slowly and hope you READ it slowly and truly comprehend as I have said this REPEATEDLY throughout this thread: I do not CARE if people cuss in general chat. It really and truly does NOT bother me. I will NOT report someone for profanity. It's when those people are bringing up topics in GENERAL CHAT, mind you, NOT A PRIVATE CHANNEL that are universally agreed upon to be VULGAR, OFFENSIVE and INFLAMMATORY. So you see (I dearly hope) enabling the chat filter is NOT AN ANSWER. Aside from the fact that it makes chat cumbersome, annoying and unreadable, it filters more than it should. It is not SWEAR WORDS I care about. It's the horrible topics that come up seemingly at random.

 

Their forum moderators are a finnicky lot that sometimes moderate on people just for being -rude-, even if it was civvily rude and had no namecalling or swearing at all!

 

In game? You can, in this and many games, /ignore absolutely anybody. It's more or less permanent. One click; pop, they practically stop existing in any way that will ever be very relevant to you at all.

 

Cute. I know this already. I do NOT see this as a solution that works in the long run. I DO ignore A LOT of players. More pop up in their place, often more disgusting than their predecessors.

 

WHat more do you expect of them? What more can you at all realistically expect when they've already given us; all of us; all the tools we need to, if our own judgement isn't garbage, shape our own social proximities?

 

They have very attentive moderators here on the forum. Believe me, I'm averaging two warnings a week, I'm getting pretty keen to how attentive the mods are.

 

That's a good thing. Good for SWTOR, good for us. If I wind up with a temporary ban for accruing too many points because I'm a bullheaded verbal equivalent of a boot to the face....ok! I probably earned it, because I -am- rude!

 

Do you, any of you, suppose Bioware should...what, exactly? Hire nannies to come into our homes and look over our shoulders while we play?

 

An army of invisible GM police that stalk the servers and silence anybody that could be offending somebody?

 

No. That's what the freaking community is for. The COMMUNITY brings things that are OFFENSIVE to the attention of the mods, the GMs. They then pass judgment. Good Grief, I am flabbergasted that someone could be so incredibly blind and deaf to the viewpoint of other people. Just because you don't LIKE what I have said, doesn't mean what I have said has no merit.

 

Here's the TL;DR summary.

 

If the tools available to you along with the safeguards and measures provided already are somehow insufficient for navigating and selectively excising from your social proximity anyone and everyone you deem unfit, for any or no reason at all, it is your judgement that is in absence.

 

Tools are there; use them. Assuming your judgement functions in any manner that is copacetic to your healthy interests, use it.

 

Let me sum it up for you, as it appears you didn't read my OP. The tools I am talking about USING are plainly provided by Bioware. The tools YOU are talking about do not apply to what this thread centers around. The tool I am talking about would be the report feature when someone breaks the rules. The fact that you seem so militant against such things being utilized makes me wonder in what kind of environment you live in. Do you look the other way if someone threatens you or someone you care about in public? Do let it slide and mutter 'not my business' if you see a smaller weaker kid plainly getting beat up by bullies? Do you not bat an eye when miscreants throw food in a restaurant or make tons of senseless noise? What about in the movies? I suppose you are fine with other movie patrons causing disturbances, being rude, ruining your movie that YOU paid for?

 

Why is an online game environment suddenly a free for all domain for the lowest common denominator of human behavior to fester? And more importantly, why are you and so many others so adamant about protecting such low lifes?

 

The end.

 

replies to this rant in green

[Uruare]

I do not disagree. I also did those things, though I didn't say that I did. I didn't think that it was necessary to expound upon what actions I took. I didn't take screenshots, though perhaps I should have. I took it upon myself to use the tools, like /ignore and /spam a lot.

 

My purpose was to respond to you that policing the chat channels IS important and it is the job of BW to do it. The players can assist them with information and details. But they should set the standard.

 

Playful banter is one thing, and should be allowed and tolerated. The kind of things I saw in chat, well, they should be addressed and brought into perspective.

 

It was out of control. Not just on that one day, but the next two days as well. And then when I had to return to DK for my class quest, it was there as well.

 

But I find lectures from players here in the forums that tell me that this kind of behavior should be expected and tolerated because of some odd reason in their minds about their rights and how we as the playerbase simply have to remove ourselves from the social part of this game so that they can freely express themselves. I'm also actually pretty sure few of them have ever had a sexual encounter or whatever. Their imaginations should be kept to themselves. Especially when it is out of control. And f the playerbase doesn't put up with it, they won't get the kind of acceptance that makes /1 in DK a breeding grounds.

 

Do you disagree?

 

 

 

The age-old problem with any form of censorship is what gets censored, and why, and how are adjoined to very high costs of providing direct moderation in such manners across so many servers on this one.

 

 

There are no terms existing that I'm aware of in which what they're currently doing is not, in fact, striking an excellent balance between allowing for very effective interactions upon such matters between clients and relevant staff and the costs of providing and maintaining said systems and staff.

 

Right now, they're not creating any grounds for controversy or client alienation/retaliation by presenting moralized terms for inclusive/exclusive censorship.

 

It's quite the can of worms to go from passive/reactive censorship such as we have now to active. You can easily, by trying to do good by your clients in such an environment, not merely irritate them but alienate them to points of retaliation sparked by mere rumor.

 

It will always cost you far more in terms of every resource of relevance to put out a public relations fire than to avoid starting it in the first place.

 

For the amount of relative good they could do and the certainly high expense it would cost to do it, the mere risk of those public relations nightmares would not only quite probably immediately outweigh any benefit in terms of 'Good PR' by generating steady streams of bad.

 

 

"Man, did you hear about SWTOR's thing? They've got chat moderators in game that f'ing BAN you if they think you're being rude."

 

"Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? How the hell do they get away with that? Has everyone ragequit yet?"

 

"Nah, but a buddy of mine said he was talking to his girlfriend in game there and they were talking about church stuff, and suddenly there's this Modbox on his screen informing him that he's been given a 1 point warning for some Inappropriate Topic BS, and then his girlfriend gets one too."

 

"Z****, seriously?! Dude, I'd quite right effing now if that were me."

 

"Yeah. They did. It's BS man. Those moderators just get to do whatever they want to whoever they want if they don't like what you're saying. I mean, come on, how much you wanna bet they take names of whoever ganks them in PVP and messes with them when they're on their special nazi client?"

 

"Dude, that's messed up. I am so not playing that game."

 

 

Now, I just made that imaginary conversation up for the sake of an example of what we'd see the like of several million times over across the internet.

 

But, wait...how did religion in any way, shape or form become relevant?

 

Is it even -true-?

 

Enter the additional problem of PR with such a system; they'd be lying to themselves if they, for one moment, thought that they'd get regarded for even their stated and repeated intentions with such a system.

 

People believe, in the end, what they want to believe. The trend is, by the by, rather heavily negatively biased against the corporation, business or authoritarian agency no matter the stated intention, and only somewhat less so if there is an abundance of evidence corraborating.

 

They'd be setting themselves up to be called The Bioware Reich. They'd create grounds for controversy that could easily damage the image and presence of the game, Bioware, EA and LucasArts in relatively permanent fashions.

 

 

EA already struggles with an Evil Empire reputation amongst gamers. I have no comment to make on that beyond using it as a facet of exemplification for further reason why EA in particular to be rather sensitive and conservative in how much they open themselves up to further bad PR.

 

 

And in the end, my whole point is thus: It is not at all a simple, cheap or easy thing you ask. The costs would assuredly be high. The return on those costs, probably PR-damaging if effective and wastes of fiscal and staffing resources if ineffective...and probably still PR-damaging.

 

My qualifications to speak on such matters, in general, are thus: I work in corporate marketing and have, for several years, worked with private medical providers all the way to networked medical provisionary services spanning the globe.

 

Its a very different industry than the gaming industry. I won't pretend, not even for a moment, that my professional experience or, indeed, acumen and education relevant to my industry qualify me to make authoritative statements about this industry's nuances or realities.

 

So, with that in mind, take into consideration that I am applying what I know very well about my own industry and attempting, for the sake of discourse, what I very strongly suspect would be true here in such circumstances.

 

To be bluntly honest, however, I'm not even sure that I'm right; just that, from where I see things and for what I am very familiar with, all of these things (and more I saw no need to pad my wall of text with) would be of very critical concern in such a matter.

[Uruare]

Your sensibilities DO NOT reflect those of others and it is EXCEEDINGLY ARROGANT to presume that they do. Get over yourself.

 

Never said they did. Do you suppose I should have, instead, offered the personal perspective of my cat? I'm hardly qualified; I only know how I think and feel in a first-hand framing about anything.

 

 

But anyone who DOES subscribe to such things? I suppose their sensibilities would be irrelevant and should not be taken into consideration? WoW....just WOW.

 

Anyone who does subscribe to such things is, last I checked, totally free to /ignore absolutely anyone for any or no reason at all, or to escalate the report process and file a ticket to such purpose, inclusive of any reasons that offend them upon such particulars.

 

I do not share those particulars. Neither do I, from a professional perspective, see it as even remotely reasonable for the administrating agency to selectively bias themselves in favor of any one or assembly of religious, philosophical or political favorings, or by exclusion, disfavorings.

 

 

So why are you ranting at me for wishing to exercise my RIGHT to report such things? If these things are worthy of your disdain, why attack someone for wishing to do something about it? Ahhh...I read your next gem and the circular reasoning kicks in...hmm.

 

I was ranting at you? Just you? Is that why I quoted you and addressed you? It seems that I did not. Moreover, it seems that I was, in fact, ranting and lecturing and carrying on in a general manner.

 

You might wish to ask for clarification upon such points in the future, as you are, in this assumption of specificity, quite thoroughly wrong.

 

The previous four paragraphs you have written pretty much made me laugh and shake my head at your close mindedness. The last sentence here makes ZERO sense. You have assumed my reasons for wanting to speak out about this issue. This is not about morality and the fact that you MAKE it about morality is really sad and pathetic. This is about reporting people who break the rules. I personally AM offended by some of the things I see in chat. If you read this whole thread, you will see I am by far not the only one. Who are YOU to look down your nose and tell me I'm WRONG because what I consider offensive doesn't line up with what you consider offensive?

 

 

We could replace this paragraph with an incoherent series of numbers, symbols and letters and it would be as germane to your interests as what you said here, as this is entirely based on the assumption that your previous assumption, dispelled above, is true.

 

It is bad form to string assumption on assumptions and build your platform of reasoning upon a matter upon a towering heap of assumptions that are all completely irrelevant if the preliminary assumption is false.

 

Moving along.

 

 

You are so far removed from the point of this thread that it's not even funny anymore. I got a good laugh out of this when I first started reading it....but now, I think you just like to hear yourself talk and read the words you type. For that matter, I would never take parenting advice from someone like you. I know how to effectively protect my own and I certainly don't require a high-handed, arrogant, and misinformed lecture from someone who seems ANGRY at the idea that a parent would even WANT to shield their kids. *shakes head* Alas, that is NOT the point however.

 

Am I? The topics of predatory behaviour do not, in fact, fall under the thread-titled aegis of relevance?

 

If you can see your way clear of the army of strawmen you've built to flail irately at while envisioning that your assumptions are both correct and relevant, would you also set aside your over-hasty reliance on ad hominem argumentation for a moment?

 

It will be required for you to rationally consider that you have misplaced your assumptions yet again. If a parent wishes to shield their children, that is, in fact, largely their own business.

 

If they want to try to get a game provider to essentially do it for them? There are tools already existent by which a very reasonable degree of this can be done.

 

None of them can, or should, or by even the most clever engineering -will- remove the onus from the parent to apply their own discretion to such matters, which will, in turn, require their personal attention to be paid to said child or childrens' doings.

 

 

K, I really cannot take you seriously for all of the ignorant assumptions you have made in this post....this...rant. Reading comprehension should be something you already possess with all of the $10 words you have used. I DON'T CARE ABOUT BAD WORDS. MY POST IS ABOUT THE OFFENSIVE, RACIST, SEXIST, AND THREATENING REFUSE THAT SCROLLS ACROSS CHAT AND CANNOT BE AVOIDED! MY POST IS ABOUT HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE RULES AND TERMS THEY AGREED TO WHEN THEY BOUGHT THE GAME. Is that statement that I have made constantly on this thread mysteriously blanked out and censored on some people's computer screens? Or is it a willful decision to not process the viewpoint of anyone else in favor of coming off as arrogant and close minded?

 

 

Frankly, I don't believe you. If you wished to take me seriously and found yourself challenged in so doing by either my content or my presentation thereof, or both, you would have asked questions.

 

You, instead, made assumption after assumption, damned me on the contingency of your assumptions being entirely correct and, here, posture yourself as qualified to judge what is, in sum, the product of your own over-hasty imagination.

 

Morever, you further assume that, unquoted and at no point singled out, on this 17 page thread, I was exclusively and absolutely addressing you.

 

Not the topic; not the topic's inclusive (and apparently broader than you grasp) extents, not other comments and posters' input in a generally inclusive manner.

 

Just you.

 

I would, at this time, like to ask you to calm down. It's not all about you.

 

In fact, had you taken the time to ask, or ask for any manner of elaboration or clarification, you might have learned that your established position is, as you have stated and positioned it along this thread, one I am quite understanding of and not in disagreement with.

 

 

So, have fun under that bus you dreamed up and threw yourself under. I wasn't driving it.

 

You were.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Uruare