Don't Nerf Tracer Missle/Grav rounds.....Nerf

[Zarthorn]

Interrupt anyone ??

 

Merc's can easliy be dealt with, use interrupt and the majority of them will stand and stare at you while they spam the Tracer missile keybind for four seconds.

 

However if you allow them to turret then what do you execpt?

 

./facepalm

 

Because they don't have any other skills they can use apparently while tracer is on cooldown for 4 sec and interupt is on cooldown for 12 sec.

 

Do we have to keep doing this dance constantly?

 

What would you prefer a buff to interupt so that it now lasts 8 seconds? Didn't think so.

[Tealo]

As far as I'm aware, the stacking percentages are multiplicative, not additive.

 

for example. 1000 armor

reduced to 650 - 35% ap

650 - 26 = 4% debuff

624 - 25

 

so on and so forth. But i'm not 100%, i'm just assuming based on majority math based mechanics.

 

But I would be totally cool with adding the addition AP to one of our Deeper talents.

 

Pyro wrecks in pvp when used correctly anyways, i'm only Arsenal in pvp cause i can't duel spec. lol

[Zarthorn]

Watched the video multiple times, and I HAVE mentioned several mistakes.

1. In that entire video, the BH was left to freecast from 20+ meters in almost every instance. Noone even tried to counter him.

2. ALL of his kills, EVERY SINGLE ONE, were a 3v1 situation, minimum. Not a single 1v1 engagement at all.

3. He uses more than Tracer Missile, but most people don't realize that because they don't play Trooper/Bounty Hunter. Instant activation skills, you can plainly see him use rail shot and heat seeker several times. Pay attention to sudden global cooldowns from nowhere.

4. He was in a premade. Evidenced by the number of players that stuck around for the entirety of the warzone in his proximity, feeding him kills via stuns, slows, heals and other CC.

5. He is in full PvP gear, stimmed up, and most of his enemies are lowbies. No doubt that was one of ~50 videos the guy made, but you only get to see the one.

 

Considering interupts and most CC is 10m, yes he will be able to freecast from 20+ meters quite easily.

 

I believe I saw him in a 2 v 1 situation in which he won quite handily as well, just by using tracer missle.

 

Premade? And guess how many premades are ran that feature at the least 3 mercs/commandos? More than I care to count.

 

Not everyone he killed was a lowbie either, there were plenty of 50's as well in that vid, if he was stimmed up (stim stacking) his missles would have done more than 2-3k (he would have been hitting lowbies for 4-5k with stimmed stacked missles)

 

Again, where is your video evidence to counter it? or in fact why not ask the author of the video to repost and point out where he used abilities other than tracer missle clearly.

[WesleyJanson]

Sustained damage.

Sustained. Damage.

That's the ony thing Gunnery and Assault is good at.

The Commando grabs a spot, sets up a camp, plants himself into the ground, and starts shooting.

Mobility? None. Knockbacks? One (and a laughable 4m knockback in Stockstrike, if perked). Stuns? One. Dashes, jumps, pulls and speed buffs? None. Interrupts? None. Snares? None.

We do damage. Sustained damage. Our burst? Yeah, that requires considerable sustain as well, because you first have to stack a few buffs on yourself, a few debuffs on the target, and then make sure noone interrupts you, LoSs you, stuns you, vanishes on you, heals or shields the target, or kills you.

Keep these simple facts in mind before you shout about nerfing Tracer/Grav/AP Cell or Cylinder again.

Thank you for your time.

 

 

yeah man it really sucks not having all that you just mentioned

 

 

oh wait a minute

 

 

 

 

clearly you don't need anything else

[Darth-Reaver]

./facepalm

 

Because they don't have any other skills they can use apparently while tracer is on cooldown for 4 sec and interupt is on cooldown for 12 sec.

 

Do we have to keep doing this dance constantly?

 

What would you prefer a buff to interupt so that it now lasts 8 seconds? Didn't think so.

 

Well i have no issues destroying Merc's in PVP with my Powertech, the use of Quell gives me enough time to take them down most of the time.

[TheRealBoz]

How does one counter a movie that fails to prove anything?

[Gelich]

Interrupts? None. Snares? None.

 

False.

[Alwaysthirsty]

Nerf Sorcs.

[TheRealBoz]

False.

 

Explain. List a Gunnery/Arsenal interrupt and snare.

[hoantran]

i love it when u guys bend over for the spam move.... kill u anyway, doesn't bother me.^^*

[mutee]

-woosh-

 

thats the sound this thread made and it becomes extremely clear you are not reading anything that was written.

 

I'll bolden this for you so it sticks...

 

60% potential consistent armor pen for ZERO investment vs 40% potential consistent armor pen on a melee class through deep investment into a sharded tree as the closest possible consistent figure and also belonging to a tank class that does not have great sustained damage.

 

How many stuns does that class get? One for free, two if deeply invested in the defence/immortal tree however they then cannot get 40% armor pen and a pbaoe mez.

 

How many knockbacks? one and one alone.

 

How many defensive skills? one for free (saber ward) a second with talent investment into the defence tree which again, they come up short of being able to get 40% armor pen.

 

This isn't about "consistent damage" that is such a false claim so stop throwing it around.

 

This is about the fact that you get 60% armor pen for Zero investment whereas no other class pairing comes even close to it and the one that does for 6 whole seconds is getting a nerf because 50% is regarded as too much in Biowares eyes.

 

Come on wake up! face the facts! Zero investment vs massive investment, you cannot justify this no matter how many "facts" you try to bring up!

 

Comparing the mechanics of two classes that are not alike atall is silly.

[Kelticfury]

The sorcs are scrambling to make the next nerf be anything but their own do it all from the safety of a bubble class.

[Choppaman]

-woosh-

 

thats the sound this thread made and it becomes extremely clear you are not reading anything that was written.

 

I'll bolden this for you so it sticks...

 

60% potential consistent armor pen for ZERO investment vs 40% potential consistent armor pen on a melee class through deep investment into a sharded tree as the closest possible consistent figure and also belonging to a tank class that does not have great sustained damage.

 

How many stuns does that class get? One for free, two if deeply invested in the defence/immortal tree however they then cannot get 40% armor pen and a pbaoe mez.

 

How many knockbacks? one and one alone.

 

How many defensive skills? one for free (saber ward) a second with talent investment into the defence tree which again, they come up short of being able to get 40% armor pen.

 

This isn't about "consistent damage" that is such a false claim so stop throwing it around.

 

This is about the fact that you get 60% armor pen for Zero investment whereas no other class pairing comes even close to it and the one that does for 6 whole seconds is getting a nerf because 50% is regarded as too much in Biowares eyes.

 

Come on wake up! face the facts! Zero investment vs massive investment, you cannot justify this no matter how many "facts" you try to bring up!

 

Ops don't need a buff, that's why they got nerfed.

[JustinxDuff]

Explain. List a Gunnery/Arsenal interrupt and snare.

 

Aoe knockback and snare will interrupt

rocket punch knockback interrupts

Stun also interrupts

[Hooya]

Why do people always assume that different buffs are added additively and not multiplicative? Of course you're still assuming that there is no diminishing returns on armor pen as well.

[mutee]

Aoe knockback and snare will interrupt

rocket punch knockback interrupts

Stun also interrupts

 

It's doesn't lock you out of casting and is not classed as an interrupt.

[Vis-Tecum]

Link in my signature is all thats really needed.

 

beacuse 2-3k crits are so overpowered and I cant break line of sight or stun because im to busy window licking so i have to try and look big putting a outdated fail video of a over geared player against under 50s in my sig to try and make myself feel good about how bad I am at pvp

Edited January 23, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[Biboonz]

a guy somewhere suggested a minimum range of like 6 meters for missile/grav , wich is actually smart imo, and would have those classe play a tad smarter without nerfing them too much.

 

Ofc i play a melee and the stuff i hate most about range dps is whey they stand their ground and pewpew you while ignoring you, and can still kill you.

Obviously the missile/grav spammers are fodder when you interrupt/silence them because they basicaly don't do anything and just stand there pressing the same button over and over and wondering why it doesn't work while they die.

 

I understand those skills have a too good damage to be ignored and not spammed , and the 2 piece bonus makes it even more of a mandatory spammable skill but its too much dmg for a no cd skill honestly.

I guess its the victims fault too to let this happen though , both grav round and tracer missile abusers are easy to spot , as there is also ample sound warnings, when playing with my friends we usually just mark them and focus them as soon as they are back from spawn.

[Kelticfury]

a guy somewhere suggested a minimum range of like 6 meters for missile/grav , wich is actually smart imo, and would have those classe play a tad smarter without nerfing them too much.

 

Yeah they should do that to force lightning also. this shoot you down from across the map is ********.

[Biboonz]

i meant MINIMUM range , so they can't just stand there and rocket you to death when you hit them at melee range. 30 meter max range is fine , they're supposed to be range after all.

[Kelticfury]

i meant MINIMUM range , so they can't just stand there and rocket you to death when you hit them at melee range. 30 meter max range is fine , they're supposed to be range after all.

 

well dammit. I am still voting for NERF SORC RANGES!!!

[Renditionz]

It's doesn't lock you out of casting and is not classed as an interrupt.

 

Than interrupts in this game cannot be classified as interrupts either.

Not counting they have ability delay.

 

The lockout does not even work 90% of the time, this has been tested.

 

 

After fixing ability delay, probably something that would actually balance out some of the Tracer/Grav issue is just replace the borked lockout of all interrupts and replace it with a GCD modifier. As in, an ability gets interrupted and a 2 second universal GCD is added to the natural one incurred by the ability itself, spanning across pools (EX:all DPS abilities after a DPS ability was interrupted)

[Manigma]

I find it pretty odd all these folks saying to get out of LOS, surely if you are a melee, within melee range of the BH he should be the one running away. It's pretty stupid that a primarily ranged class has no disadvantage doing damage from both long and point blank range.

 

Sure by all means break it to avoid damage when you are attacking someone else, or heading to an objective but breaking it when you need to kill them just allows them to kite you more easily or escape.

 

The damage is too much for too little, sure you can interrupt and cc but they will cc you also, and after all is said and done it is still a very close call even with equally geared melee getting in close.

 

The fact they have heavy armour and superb sustained damage doesn't help either.

[Sinemetu]

So I beat you with facts and you retort with some random statement of balance?

 

I think we know we're done here. There's no reason Armor Piercing Cell by itself, or even armor pentration in general at high levels should be nerfed. For some reason any class having a high level of passive armor pen is a sin to you, despite them being balanced around the always on, passive Armor Pen.

 

I find it ironic that if they DID nerf armor piercing cell, they would have to then go in and buff the BASELINE damage of those same abilities. THe net result would be that people that are wearing medium/light armor would get hit even HARDER after the "nerf" you seem to want so bad.

 

Well, they should buff operative baseline abilities, too. That 50% armor pen buff they're nerfing to 30%? That was an ability ops keep up all the time. So they nerfed the duration of hidden strike's stun, the damage it actually deals, and armor pen on all abilities. By your own words, they need to rebuff operatives.

[Dayshadow]

Armor Piercing Cell and High Velocity Gas Cylinder!

 

Why do you ask?

 

35% consistent armor pen which when stacked with Tracer missle and Grav rounds secondary effect builds up to 60% armor penetration!

 

Far and away the highest consistent figure of armor pen in the entire game.

 

And lest we forget, Bioware are nerfing Flechette Round and Acid Blade, both 31 point talents that grant 50% armor pen (and the only armor pen that a Scoundrel/Ops gets) for 6 seconds down to 30% for 6 seconds because they think 50% armor pen for 6 seconds is too much.....

 

So again, I ask how is 35% consistent armor pen on a heavy armor wearing class that can consistently stack to 60% armor pen fair? (not forgetting here, you have to invest absolutely nothing for that armor pen vs a 31 talent point)

 

Now you have your answer and the true problem behind Grav/Tracer spam.

 

At best, a reduction in crit damage as parently all tracer missle attacks crit.

 

 

About the armor penetration.. it's 55% which equates to a 2.7% dmg increase. It's not the cell or cylinder that is the problem. Personally I have never seen a grav round do more than 1800 (that that being a crit). Tracer rounds I have seen consistently do 2000-2500. If Grav round did that much I'd have never switched to assault. I didn't even know tracer was supposed to be the equivalent to grav round until resently.

 

Either way those attacks are supposed to be filler to finish the CD on the main DPS attacks. Full auto and demo round for commandos. As well as increasing high impact bolts dmg. If a player can win while spamming a prepatory abilities then something is wrong. I know I could never do enough damage with grav round to warrent using it over full auto, HIB or demo round and I've never lost a 1vs1 fight (vs a non-expertised).