Cancrizans Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Let's also put it another way: customers paid to enjoy a product that Lucas put up on the screen (the OT films). They paid to enjoy the films in their original format. Lucas decides to make changes to those films to fit his vision, whatever that is. I think most people would be fine with that as long as he made the original version still available to the public. By trying to force people to buy his versions, Lucas is just showing a level of selfishness that is deserving of criticism, whether he can stand it or not. There are two problems with this thinking, the first is a completely irrational idea that stems from our ridiculously materialistic and ownership driven society...that paying for something necessarily grants you ownership of it, or some other priority over those who do not pay. Regardless of whether our social norms will admit it or not, there are some things you just can't possess, no matter how much you pay for them. You can pretend that the piece of land you "bought" is "yours" but in the context of anything that really matters in the universe, the planet doesn't give a crap whether you signed a contract with F. McGoozle Diddlywinks who previously said he "owned" the land...it its still part of the planet and nature will trump your phoney ownership in the long run whether you believe so or not. It's the same with rich people who "buy" paintings. You own a physical object, but completely miss the point of its creation, so in the end you own less than people who simply admire and understand it for what it truly is. The second problem is you seem to believe that Lucas can magically wave his fingers and the original versions will pop out of the cosmos for your enjoyment without any form of investment as far as money, time, and personal effort goes. I am not sure if Lucas ever said that he deliberately will not allow a rerelease of the originals to happen...in which case I agree he is simply being stupid...but such a rerelease costs money and time, and since you seem to support the current ideaologies i.e. material ownership is a firm reality, you should understand that unless there is a market for it, the product likely will not get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancrizans Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 To be honest, if the Extended Universe is any indication of what the audience wanted, I'm glad he did it his way. This 100 times over. I have heard and read a lot of interviews with Lucas since the original movie was released, and one thing that struck me was the sincere and deep, almost philosophical ideals behind the creation of the originals. There is such a link between the Jedi ideals and Eastern thought, that is no coincidence. Lucas was trying to make a statement about the major conflict we have in our times, that between greed and materialism, and caring about one another and spirituality. To ignore this is just stupid, regardless of how successful the franchise ended up becoming(which was a total surprise to just about everyone in the industry, including Lucas). The widespread popularity and merchandising of the series has tended to obscure the ideas and ideals Lucas was trying to communicate originally, and I think the Extended Universe is one of the bigger offenders in this regard, because as all books and other media that are written to capitalize on the success of a movie or other popular franchise, their main goal is to gain as wide an audience as possible, so all sorts of nonsense made its way into the books that completely disregarded the simple and rather profound meaning of the originals...in other words none of the Extended Universe actually captured the real meaning of the originals, it was all just pretty much the written version of some action movies that included Star Wars characters. That's why I find it perverse that a lot of people regard the "Extended Universe" as "more Star Wars" than the films...I think tbh they are completely missing the message so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagnarokJC Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 There are two problems with this thinking, the first is a completely irrational idea that stems from our ridiculously materialistic and ownership driven society...that paying for something necessarily grants you ownership of it, or some other priority over those who do not pay. You can look at this way: Lucas has fans who would be willing to pay for re-releases of the original versions of the OT films. The key point is that those fans want the original versions *free of any changes*. The fact that he's not making it available indicates a different motivation. One could say that the alternative motivation is artistic, but that's belied by the fact that Lucas is re-releasing his versions of the films commercially. Regardless of whether our social norms will admit it or not, there are some things you just can't possess, no matter how much you pay for them. You can pretend that the piece of land you "bought" is "yours" but in the context of anything that really matters in the universe, the planet doesn't give a crap whether you signed a contract with F. McGoozle Diddlywinks who previously said he "owned" the land...it its still part of the planet and nature will trump your phoney ownership in the long run whether you believe so or not. It's the same with rich people who "buy" paintings. You own a physical object, but completely miss the point of its creation, so in the end you own less than people who simply admire and understand it for what it truly is. As I said before, this is a debate that could go on forever. However, the fact remains that Lucas is changing the films in a way that many fans (and possibly former fans) do not approve of. The second problem is you seem to believe that Lucas can magically wave his fingers and the original versions will pop out of the cosmos for your enjoyment without any form of investment as far as money, time, and personal effort goes. I am not sure if Lucas ever said that he deliberately will not allow a rerelease of the originals to happen...in which case I agree he is simply being stupid...but such a rerelease costs money and time, and since you seem to support the current ideaologies i.e. material ownership is a firm reality, you should understand that unless there is a market for it, the product likely will not get released. This is easily the weakest of your arguments. To say that Lucas would even have trouble re-releasing the original versions of the OT films due to the cost of effort and money is ludicrous given his wealth and available resources. After all, he clearly has the resources to alter and add footage/images to existing films on top of updating them to a 3D and digital film format. Then of course there is the fact that he was able to finance the creation, marketing, and distribution of a theater-run film (Red Tails) out of his own pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 George Lucas has done nothing but screw up Star Wars since the original trilogy. Midichlorians? He should be ashamed of himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) George Lucas has done nothing but screw up Star Wars since the original trilogy. Midichlorians? He should be ashamed of himself. HE INVENTED STAR WARS! Jesus... people actually think that God gave George the Star Wars saga and he just decided to screw them up because he didn't write them they way they wanted him to. I totally get his hatred of the fans.. Here read this and get some closure. Edited February 4, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvistor Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) After reading this, I couldn't stop ranting. I'm an artist as well. I have written plays, composed songs, and painted portraits. I can completely understand from where George is coming. He has spent his whole life working to have his art exposed to the world; HIS art. It is an extension of him, his mind and his heart. He poured everything into making his movies because he doesn't see it as business, but art. That is something that I can respect. However, his Star Wars Saga has evolved into something so much more than 6 movies. It has become a culture, a way of life and an ever evolving universe of mythos. Heck, some people have gone so far as to claim "The Force" to be their official religion. So, for George Lucas to act as though he shouldn't have some level of loyalty to those who have made him the successful businessman that he is today is bordering on the insulting. Here is a man who created art and exposed it to the world in his own way. Millions of people got caught up in his art and feel in love with the world he created. They became loyal followers of his work, his art. He even gave the helm to other men to direct his art and they were the best of them all. After that he made millions, no, billions, of dollars on his Star Wars franchise. And we're the ones who are responsible for giving him that acceptance. We're the ones that religiously stood in the rain, snow, and heat for days to see his movies. We're the ones who have shown such passion for his work. All we ask for is for him to respect what we've loved and for which we've shown such respect. Instead, we get the Special Editions of the original films, the Prequels, and the DVD and Blu-Ray editions of the films. These re-releases are a money gimick and he knows it. On top of that, he's using these opportunities to make changes that, while not drastic to the overall story and experience, are just plain insulting to the intelligence of the audience. Come on, George; you make Han Solo shoot second? We wouldn't notice Hayden just showing up at the end of RotJ? We needed to see a digitally created performance by aliens in Jabba's palace? Ugh! In addition, the re-releases are immensely demonstrative of Lucas's hubris. He is constantly changing his own work. Always picking at it to make it "better." While I, as an artist, can appreciate this high level of self-criticism in one's own work, I cannot help but think that once the movies were originally released it was already beyond the "point of no return." That's also usually the mode of operation for Hollywood anyway. Movie is out, it's finished. So, why can't George realize this and respect the love that his followers have? Well, to put it plainly, it's pride. He's too proud to listen to "us" or the "fanboys". He just wants to make sure that HIS work and HIS motive in his work are the focus, which, like I said before, is understandlable. However, Star Wars has gone beyond him and HIS work. It's a culture and it's going to involve everyone who puts their heart into it, not just Mr. Lucas and his desire to change his work to fit him whenever he feels the need to spice things up. In addition, it doesn't do well for business, either. TL;DR : George has to get over himself and realize that Star Wars is more than the movies he made. He should probably start embracing the culture that Star Wars is and accept that the people are the true reason that Star Wars has become something so grand. Edited February 4, 2012 by Kvistor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Let's face it, George Lucas was a one-trick pony. And the sad part is that the best in the series (TESB) had the least involvement from Lucas. Why? Because he's a horrible writer. He does come up with cool ideas though. He built a really cool sandbox, but it's so full of cat crap we just need to shovel out all the sand and start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Moral Right ?!?! WoW, talk about being out of touch with reality.... From what I've read your opinion seems to be that because you saw his movies you have some weird moral right to have a say with what he does with his movies You need to step away from all things nerdy and try out a real life because your way to deep into nerdism and it's making you say bizarre things.. You need to stop with the rage for a moment and read what I said more carefully. I'm not talking about what say I have in his movies. Empire Strikes Back was directed by Irvin Kershner. Return of the Jedi was directed by Richard Marquand. As is tradition in Hollywood, the director is the final creative authority on films. It's why Jaws, for example, is considered Stephen Spielberg's work, even though he didn't produce it, write the screenplay for it, or come up with the idea for it. When I'm talking about moral right, I'm talking about changing a director's creative vision without their approval. In reference to Episode IV, like I've said, he is the director, and therefore has full creative control over his film. But as a self-proclaimed student of cinema who has upheld American films as part of America's cultural heritage, I'm saying I don't think he has the moral right to prevent the reproduction of those original effects which, whether he likes it or not, are part of our cultural heritage. The bottom line is there are professionals in Hollywood that have offered their services to remaster the originals. Robert Harris, famed restoration expert and film historian who remastered The Godfather by hand, offered to fully restore the originals in time for the 2006 DVD release, and LucasFilm didn't even bother responding. Instead they pulled the Laserdisc master and did a piss-poor transfer copy of a copy. Pay attention: When a distinguished film historian is saying that failing to preserve the original films is wrong, claims of nerdrage and fandom gone rampant fall flat. Edited February 5, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I imagine in another 30-40 years, many of us are going to be sitting our diapered geriatric butts in theaters watching a Star Wars remake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kvistor Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Let's face it, George Lucas was a one-trick pony. And the sad part is that the best in the series (TESB) had the least involvement from Lucas. Why? Because he's a horrible writer. He does come up with cool ideas though. He built a really cool sandbox, but it's so full of cat crap we just need to shovel out all the sand and start over. Ha! I loved that analogy, because it's completely accurate. He comes up with an amazing idea for how the movies' story should have gone and because they did so well, he suddenly thinks himself the best writer for Star Wars out there. We've been shown proof that this isn't the case (The Prequels). If he wants to write the overall story, great. Just leave things like dialogue, script, directing to those people who are very talented at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 What people are not realizing is that the vast majority of you are not the typical fan that the movies were made for. The typical fan has seen the movies, possibly played the video games, and on a stretch watched some of the clone wars tv series. The typical fan most likely has only seen the 6 movies and has never touched a single piece of EU. People like the ones complaining in this thread are not the "typical fan" of Star Wars. They are huge fans. Extremely devoted fans. I am sorry that George Lucas has not lived up to your expectations but you have to realize he wasn't making movies for you. Star Wars is not a "cult movie" it is about as mainstream as a movie can get and that is who the movies are made for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) What people are not realizing is that the vast majority of you are not the typical fan that the movies were made for. The typical fan has seen the movies, possibly played the video games, and on a stretch watched some of the clone wars tv series. The typical fan most likely has only seen the 6 movies and has never touched a single piece of EU. People like the ones complaining in this thread are not the "typical fan" of Star Wars. They are huge fans. Extremely devoted fans. I am sorry that George Lucas has not lived up to your expectations but you have to realize he wasn't making movies for you. Star Wars is not a "cult movie" it is about as mainstream as a movie can get and that is who the movies are made for. The typical fans you speak of, the mainstream ones not as devoted as us, abandoned Star Wars entirely sometime around 1999. Edited February 5, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Star Wars is not a "cult movie" it is about as mainstream as a movie can get and that is who the movies are made for. Actually, Star Wars is the most successful cult classic ever made. It was a dark horse and on a B-movie budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The typical fans you speak of, the mainstream ones not as devoted as us, abandoned Star Wars entirely sometime around 1999. http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm Ticket sales would beg to differ with you. The 3 new movies were all hugely successful due to mainstream fans. To the person saying that it was a successful cult classic. Sorry but "cult movie" following do not lead to ticket sales like Star Wars has had. Even though the original wasn't filmed as a big huge hollywood blockbuster it resonated with mainstream fans. Those fans are the ones that line George Lucas' pockets. The EU writers did not build a fan base for George Lucas. George Lucas gave the EU writers a fan base for their work and provided them with the opportunity to be as successful as they were. You do not create a franchise as successful and large as Star Wars (just like Harry Potter, James Bond, Lord of The Rings) through "cult movie" fans alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelfred Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I guess I remember being a little kid back in the 70's and being on the edge of my seat, with my eyes wide open, watching star wars for the first time. I think thats who it was intended for, a simple story about good versus evil, princesses, villains, struggle and the good guys winning. I can see all sorts of rage if Steinbeck came back from the dead and wrote 'Of Mice and Men, part 2', wherein Lennie isnt killed by George's bullet, but his brain heals and adapts and he learns to process thoughts differently, studies, goes to harvard, becomes a rocket scientist, invents faster than light travel and flies off to hook up with some green-skinned women in another galaxy. Then I could see outrage and moral indignation. And a possible lawsuit from Roddenberry's estate. As far as I can tell, we have a guy here who is taking what he created and retelling it with a few more effects for another generation of wide eyed kids. Heck if I know if its for money, I wouldnt presume to know Lucas' mind or anyone else's motivations for that matter. The passion some fans have for these movies is admirable, I think maybe just a little misdirected. Perhaps take some of that passion and energy and go work in a soup kitchen, habitat for humanity, find out how to send soldiers in afghanistan a 'care' package. Having been in the military for nine years myself, I can tell you that sort of thing is appreciated. Find something else a little more tangible to be passionate about. I'm pretty sure Lucas is aware of what you have to say on this issue and is going to proceed as he wishes regardless, maybe even in spite of what you have to say, though that again is presuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmannseelo Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm Ticket sales would beg to differ with you. The 3 new movies were all hugely successful due to mainstream fans. You beat me to it. As far as the mainstream goes, the movies were a massive success. We hardcore fans make up only the tiniest fraction of it's audience. Edited February 5, 2012 by Jmannseelo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm Ticket sales would beg to differ with you. The 3 new movies were all hugely successful due to mainstream fans. To the person saying that it was a successful cult classic. Sorry but "cult movie" following do not lead to ticket sales like Star Wars has had. Even though the original wasn't filmed as a big huge hollywood blockbuster it resonated with mainstream fans. Those fans are the ones that line George Lucas' pockets. The EU writers did not build a fan base for George Lucas. George Lucas gave the EU writers a fan base for their work and provided them with the opportunity to be as successful as they were. You do not create a franchise as successful and large as Star Wars (just like Harry Potter, James Bond, Lord of The Rings) through "cult movie" fans alone. Try the adjusted gross, genius. TPM's numbers were so high because the mainstream folks all went to see it expecting a glorious return of the franchise. Now look where II and III fall on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Try the adjusted gross, genius. TPM's numbers were so high because the mainstream folks all went to see it expecting a glorious return of the franchise. Now look where II and III fall on that list. I like Jmann's list better where Episode II just barely beats out the Twilight saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxBreemenxx Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Willow was great =) I like that universe even more than Star Wars lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Willow was great =) I like that universe even more than Star Wars lol What brought that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) What brought that up? George Lucas co-wrote the base story on which the screenplay's based. Edited February 5, 2012 by Nexusissei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 George Lucas co-wrote the base story on which the screenplay's based. Yeah, I know. But I'm still failing to make the connection with the topic at hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexusissei Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Yeah, I know. But I'm still failing to make the connection with the topic at hand... Just George Lucas stories. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BranRizzy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I have come to this coclusion... I noticed Lucas retired around patch 1.1??? Coincident??? I THINK NOT! Bio-Ware forced lucas to retire in shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmannseelo Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Try the adjusted gross, genius. TPM's numbers were so high because the mainstream folks all went to see it expecting a glorious return of the franchise. Now look where II and III fall on that list. I hate to break it to you Einstein, but all you've done is reinforce his point. Unless you're trying to say that beating out Back to the Future, both The Two Towers and The Fellowship of the Ring, West Side Story, Lawrence of Arabia, Close Encounters, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, a slew of Harry Potter films, and the list goes on.....is failure. I mean, a big awesome cinema expert like you would never make such a ridiculous claim would they? So what exactly was your point? Or were you calling him "genius" without irony, and acknowledging that even with the adjusted gross the Prequels were a massive success? Edited February 5, 2012 by Jmannseelo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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