undeniablyjeff Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Well, it's past the free month now and the game is still sucking my 8 gigs of RAM dry way too fast. I'd rather play on the *********** Unreal engine than have my high end machine become a *********** low end because of whatever the Zero Engine does to **** it up so much. Keeping my netbook or phone nearby to check e-mail because alt/tabbing freezes my **** for too long is getting really *********** old. Edited January 23, 2012 by undeniablyjeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well, it's past the free month now and the game is still sucking my 8 gigs of RAM dry way too fast. I'd rather play on the *********** Unreal engine than have my high end machine become a *********** low end because of whatever the Zero Engine does to **** it up so much. Keeping my netbook or phone nearby to check e-mail because alt/tabbing freezes my **** for too long is getting really *********** old. ... At 8 gigs, I sit at 50% load when running this game. I actually don't manage to get anything under full load... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBeep Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was on the team that transported oblivion to the crysis engine, and Only took 1.2 years, considering a good job for a small team, however this game is on a much larger scale and would take a longer time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwmAIfL_yoo lol... you didn't port Oblivion to the Crysis engine. You managed to get the maps and environment textures to load in the engine and then recorded a video flying the camera around the Oblivion landscape rendered through the Crysis engine. That's not a game. That's not even half a game... if you're touting that as your team having ported the game to a new engine you clearly don't understand what a game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hello, I am an indie game developer and worked on a couple of indie titles, and would like to give some input to BioWare on how they can improve the game in future expansion. Long story short: It would be very easy and take a short amount of time for BioWare to transfer from the hero engine to something better, lets say the unreal engine; let me put it to you this way, Most of the game is done through coding, 3ds max, and other programs, and there is programs that allows BioWare to take the maps from the Hero Engine and transfer it into another engine. Why doesn't BioWare do this? Because they would have to relearn the whole engine, however I propose to use the Unreal engine, because it's easy to use, it is very good, and was used on games like Mass Effect 1-3, Batman Arkam City, and many other very popular games. BioWare is familiar with this engine. I would also like to point out the Unreal engine 3 is probably the best engine considering there is a wide variety of tools, and other things that allow the animation to be smoother, less delay, and more variety of graphic options that would scale for low to high end builds! This is not Tic-Tac-Toe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 lol... you didn't port Oblivion to the Crysis engine. You managed to get the maps and environment textures to load in the engine and then recorded a video flying the camera around the Oblivion landscape rendered through the Crysis engine. That's not a game. That's not even half a game... if you're touting that as your team having ported the game to a new engine you clearly don't understand what a game is. And as of his OP, it was pretty clear he didn't have a process of what game development was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowflyingmeat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Can't tell if OP is a troll....or just plain naive.... lol "im talking about expansions!" Did you seriously work with any of the above mentioned games? An expansion is simply additional content built upon the existing framework. Making the expansion Unreal based would require you to have the framework (in this case, SWTOR classic) also run on Unreal. They have spent well over 50-100 million on the engine and asset development alone I would imagine. This thread is pointless, because it doesn't make sense from any POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Really , i dont think they can do that anymore , few years to late to pick any engine that is not the one they currently use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Yes, let's transfer the game in it's entirety from one engine to another. That is totally feasible and makes sense. It is feasible games have done it..... I do believe square enix is doing something similar with V2 of FFXIV. However bioware foolishly dumped millions upon millions of dev with this engine and them swapping to unreal engine would make them look worse tbh. People would say you did your SP games in unreal why didn't you do swtor like that from the start? And they would reply with derp derp we wanted fast realtime content creation tools so we could pump out stuff thats bugged up the whazoo and get paid. Edited January 23, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurniipKing Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dude, just... no. You're basically talking about a complete rebuilt to an engine that doesn't support Massive gameplay from the ground up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavens_Night Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Hello, I am an indie game developer and worked on a couple of indie titles, and would like to give some input to BioWare on how they can improve the game in future expansion. Long story short: It would be very easy and take a short amount of time for BioWare to transfer from the hero engine to something better, lets say the unreal engine; let me put it to you this way, Most of the game is done through coding, 3ds max, and other programs, and there is programs that allows BioWare to take the maps from the Hero Engine and transfer it into another engine. Why doesn't BioWare do this? Because they would have to relearn the whole engine, however I propose to use the Unreal engine, because it's easy to use, it is very good, and was used on games like Mass Effect 1-3, Batman Arkam City, and many other very popular games. BioWare is familiar with this engine. I would also like to point out the Unreal engine 3 is probably the best engine considering there is a wide variety of tools, and other things that allow the animation to be smoother, less delay, and more variety of graphic options that would scale for low to high end builds! You claim to be a games developer and you think they can just do this? LOL I wouldn't want to play any of your games. I work in the games industry also not in development but in testing and even I know how difficult and time consuming, and probably a complete waste of time this would be. The UT3 engine wasn't built for MMO's either, the ones using it today are using a heavily modified and reformed engine, a lot different from the U3 engine you know and love. How can you be this short sighted, you almost seem like a troll tbh. Edited January 23, 2012 by Heavens_Night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dude, just... no. You're basically talking about a complete rebuilt to an engine that doesn't support Massive gameplay from the ground up. Then why is tera's engine unreal... why is blade and souls engine unreal. Both are mmo's coming this year. There is obviously some sort of massive multiplay support..... Use your head do research before you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisai Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hello, I am an indie game developer and worked on a couple of indie titles, and would like to give some input to BioWare on how they can improve the game in future expansion. Long story short: It would be very easy and take a short amount of time for BioWare to transfer from the hero engine to something better, lets say the unreal engine; let me put it to you this way, Most of the game is done through coding, 3ds max, and other programs, and there is programs that allows BioWare to take the maps from the Hero Engine and transfer it into another engine. Why doesn't BioWare do this? Because they would have to relearn the whole engine, however I propose to use the Unreal engine, because it's easy to use, it is very good, and was used on games like Mass Effect 1-3, Batman Arkam City, and many other very popular games. BioWare is familiar with this engine. I would also like to point out the Unreal engine 3 is probably the best engine considering there is a wide variety of tools, and other things that allow the animation to be smoother, less delay, and more variety of graphic options that would scale for low to high end builds! What a loud of ********.... Sure you are a developer and even if you were how many of them had the content and succes swtor has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurniipKing Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Then why is tera's engine unreal... why is blade and souls engine unreal. Both are mmo's coming this year. There is obviously some sort of massive multiplay support..... Use your head do research before you post. It's not meant for this style of gameplay, plain and simple. Though, I grant the hero engine isn't exactly knocking it out of the park at the moment either. But seriously, re-engineering the core of a game probably isn't the solution to SWTOR's issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeshJedi Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Then why is tera's engine unreal... why is blade and souls engine unreal. Both are mmo's coming this year. There is obviously some sort of massive multiplay support..... Use your head do research before you post. They're not. they're part unreal engine, but the majority of it is rewritten and they can no longer just plug in the next version of unreal with Epic fixes a bug or upgrades, they'll have to do it all themselves. all the backend and net code is customer, the only thing that's left is "most" of the graphics renderer on the client side. The Hero engine however is written from the ground up to support MMO's, graphically it's more than good enough, and BW is able to modify the renderer to add new and better effects and rendering techniques at will, this is th easy part because most of it just plugs into DX. But the Hero engine also comes with the MMO backend stuff and great collaborative development tools allowing fast and efficient work by the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSheriff Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Somewhere I picture a lot of real developers rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter at your ideas. I'm not laughing, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what the OP thinks moving to UTE3 is going accomplish. I haven't ever worked with Hero, but I work with other game engines almost daily. Every engine has its positive and negative aspects. Every project has a different set of constraints and requirements. Often, those limitations determine which platform to use. UT3 Engine is very robust stock, but it is often very painful to get to work the way you intend it to. It handles instanced geometry very well, but LOD popping is a major issue. Given the nature ofan mmo, with dozens of unique meshes on screen at one time, I don't see UT3 handling the game (with its current art style), much better than Hero from a visual standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisai Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not laughing, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what the OP thinks moving to UTE3 is going accomplish. I haven't ever worked with Hero, but I work with other game engines almost daily. Every engine has its positive and negative aspects. Every project has a different set of constraints and requirements. Often, those limitations determine which platform to use. UT3 Engine is very robust stock, but it is often very painful to get to work the way you intend it to. It handles instanced geometry very well, but LOD popping is a major issue. Given the nature ofan mmo, with dozens of unique meshes on screen at one time, I don't see UT3 handling the game (with its current art style), much better than Hero from a visual standpoint. And dont forget the time and money already invested in the current engine. And the time and money you spend on changing to a other engine. But when the OP clearly knows it better then hundreds of developers at EA i might suggest applying for a job there since posting your imaginary story on these forums has no use. Oh im the CEO of EA and i just posted that so it must be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 But when the OP clearly knows it better then hundreds of developers at EA i might suggest applying for a job there since posting your imaginary story on these forums has no use. It's actually better than that, he's claiming to know better than the entire games industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 They're not. they're part unreal engine, but the majority of it is rewritten and they can no longer just plug in the next version of unreal with Epic fixes a bug or upgrades, they'll have to do it all themselves. all the backend and net code is customer, the only thing that's left is "most" of the graphics renderer on the client side. The Hero engine however is written from the ground up to support MMO's, graphically it's more than good enough, and BW is able to modify the renderer to add new and better effects and rendering techniques at will, this is th easy part because most of it just plugs into DX. But the Hero engine also comes with the MMO backend stuff and great collaborative development tools allowing fast and efficient work by the devs. Well hate to say this but that holds true for 99% of mmo's out there. Being written from the ground up does say much when this games biggest flaw isn't the game play but the performance and sharding. You say they can write new code into the engine for effects and rendering techniques yet after like 7 years of dev the game didn't launch with AA, high res textures were taken out, shadows are blocky, and theres a long list of performance issues.... and now we have screen flicker issues in game where it just blacks out for a split second as you play repeatedly. Im not trying to start a fight or anything but the only arguement thats actually valid for hero engine is that they can create collaborative content for fast content creation..... thats it. The game I garantee would have been much smoother. Yes content might have been slower but probably less buggy and have tons better performance. That being said the games that used unreal engine cost a fraction of what swtor cost for developement and was done faster. So was hero engine worth all the dev headache bugs? probably not is what I am getting at. And its probably not even the same engine anymore that they started with.... which would have been the same thing for UDK if they had used that instead. They would have had to adapt it to mmo flow but they wouldn't have had to screw with the core of the engine as much just to get it to run semi decent. Which it really doesn't anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) To add to my above post..... “When creating a large-scale MMORPG, the most important foundation is having an expandable and robust game engine as the production tool,” said Jacob Han, chief producer of “BLESS.” “I believe Unreal Engine 3’s spectacular graphics rendering capabilities, among many other elements, make it the best option. And, with the Unreal Landscape tool developed by Epic Games Korea, it allows us to create extremely detailed yet full-scale worlds while utilizing less system memory than ever before.” More and more mmo's are adopting UDK after seeing its earlier success in other mmo's from a few years ago. another mmo: Secret Identity Studios Art Director Josh Book added, “Our artists love the Unreal Content Browser, the visual art pipeline, and how functional UE3 is with different 3D packages. We had assets in the game within hours of starting work with the engine. In addition, Unreal Lightmass is a very advanced global illumination tool that has helped push the look of our game further than we thought it could go.” “Capturing the distinctive moments of such revered fiction within a game environment is no small task, and it’s critical to use the very best tools and technology to deliver the production values fans expect,” said Joe Kreiner, North American licensing manager, Epic Games. “Having grown up with Marvel’s iconic heroes and villains, we’re really honored to help Gazillion and Secret Identity achieve their creative vision and quality bar for the game.” So clearly there is nothing wrong with UDK, and you guys jumping in with Unreal isn't for MMO's well your wrong. Its not for any specific game type its a game engine, and was developed as such to be expanded and built upon. Edited January 23, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talligan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Apparently FFXIV is switching over to a new engine but that's because the current one was so freaking hard to do anything with/add new content too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Apparently FFXIV is switching over to a new engine but that's because the current one was so freaking hard to do anything with/add new content too. Want to bet its Unreal Engine “It is a pleasure to provide Square Enix with an exceptional game engine that will help them bring thrilling new experiences to legions of fans all over the world,” said Taka Kawasaki, territory manager of Epic Games Japan. “Many Western games have achieved great success with the Unreal Engine, and this milestone reflects the Japanese development community’s trust in our technical prowess. We can’t wait to see how Square Enix fuses the power of Unreal Engine 3 with its beautiful characters, enthralling storylines and fantastic gameplay.” Details about the games using the Unreal Engine under this license agreement will be revealed by Square Enix. Edited January 23, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryptorchid Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BioWare Rep; "BoltGamer, we initially didn't consider any other engines, because the HeroEngine allowed all of our developers to simultaneously rotate a rock's position! That type of technology is worth it's weight in gold!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_Nox Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And dont forget the time and money already invested in the current engine. And the time and money you spend on changing to a other engine. But when the OP clearly knows it better then hundreds of developers at EA i might suggest applying for a job there since posting your imaginary story on these forums has no use. Oh im the CEO of EA and i just posted that so it must be true. since when is a business a democracy? a handful of people who probably have little technical expertise made the decision to go with hero, and it was likely a financial one at it's heart, or thought to be a time-saver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barracudastr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) BioWare Rep; "BoltGamer, we initially didn't consider any other engines, because the HeroEngine allowed all of our developers to simultaneously rotate a rock's position! That type of technology is worth it's weight in gold!" I think bioware was to stuck on being able to all work on the same map at the same time from whereever..... its a great thing no doubt but we the players got shafted. Congrats bioware you can create fast content.... Or they were in a hurry and thought that choosing hero engine would be the fastest way.... low and behold a few hundred million later and 7 years of dev they were wrong lol Edited January 23, 2012 by Barracudastr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigota Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think bioware was to stuck on being able to all work on the same map at the same time from whereever..... its a great thing no doubt but we the players got shafted. Congrats bioware you can create fast content.... Or they were in a hurry and thought that choosing hero engine would be the fastest way.... low and behold a few hundred million later and 7 years of dev they were wrong lol The sad truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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