Will lack of innovation REALLY hurt this game success?

[Fardarter]

I agree 100% on the whole FEEL thing. I was very skeptical before I got to play the game.

[Xulkaen]

Let me explain why you're wrong, then. Simply, you're comparing completely different genres that have little in common. First off, an "RPG" is a much more diverse term than an "FPS' is. An FPS will always be point and shoot, because that's what the genre is. An RPG can be anything, from Deus Ex Human Revolution, to World of Warcraft. By its own definition, FPS has a locked core gameplay design.

 

Plus, have you ever seen gameplay from other MMOs, like TERA, GW2 and Blade and Soul? They really have nothing in common with WOW and SWTOR other than the fact that there are abilities you can press. Other than that they play completely differently. SWTOR gameplay is 100% WOW copy paste. WOW gameplay was NOT 100% Everquest copy paste, no matter how you fanboys like to throw that around. WOW was the first MMO meant to be played with WASD, actually, that alone changed a lot of things. Then it introduced a lot of other stuff MMOs take for granted now, like the GCD.

 

Again.

 

WOW =/= EQ

SWTOR = WOW

 

Combat wise. Whether you like it or not. And this WILL cost the game a lot of gamers. A lot of people want to try something even SLIGHTLY different. TOR doesn't even do that SLIGHTLY different, it does the exact same thing.

 

Slight correction here. WoW was not actually the first MMO meant to be played with WASD. DAoC came out a full 3 years prior to WoW and it utilized WASD as the primary movement method.

[yomanaaiton]

And WoW does = EQ, I played both and it is almost a direct copy.

 

Direct copies don't give you 10 million subscribers, mate.

 

That's why SW:TOR won't have that many.

 

Bai.

[rebalnz]

game will be awesome no doubt. any mmo is really if you have a friendly guild some friends and a stable game. but im definitely replacing it with gw2 when that releases. arenanet is awesome and that game pretty much looks perfect to me as of right now.

[Manweth]

Besides, if you are looking for a WoW Clone, go play LOTRO.

 

It was a very good game and it still is, despite nearly being a total copy of the WoW.

[Godsfear]

game will be awesome no doubt. any mmo is really if you have a friendly guild some friends and a stable game. but im definitely replacing it with gw2 when that releases. arenanet is awesome and that game pretty much looks perfect to me as of right now.

 

in case you didnt see this.

 

Dev playing elementalist

Edited December 15, 2011 by Godsfear

[yomanaaiton]

Besides, if you are looking for a WoW Clone, go play LOTRO.

 

It was a very good game and it still is, despite nearly being a total copy of the WoW.

 

LOTRO did copy WOW a lot, but it also did a lot of stuff different, like how its entire class progression works.

 

SW:TOR even copied THAT from WOW. Just talent trees and skills from trainers /yawn

 

And it dumbed down stats even more than WOW. 1 stat for each spec is all you need. Just pathetically streamlined. It's just the same, except worse.

[chrisftw]

LOTRO did copy WOW a lot, but it also did a lot of stuff different, like how its entire class progression works.

 

SW:TOR even copied THAT from WOW. Just talent trees and skills from trainers /yawn

 

And it dumbed down stats even more than WOW. 1 stat for each spec is all you need. Just pathetically streamlined. It's just the same, except worse.

 

dumbed down huh? take a look at WOW's talent system come Panda expansion. THAT is dumbed down.

 

also LOTR is horrible. saying that is like one poster saying MAPLE STORY was innovated and deeply involving more than SWTOR.

[Cosia]

Let me explain why you're wrong, then. Simply, you're comparing completely different genres that have little in common. First off, an "RPG" is a much more diverse term than an "FPS' is. An FPS will always be point and shoot, because that's what the genre is. An RPG can be anything, from Deus Ex Human Revolution, to World of Warcraft. By its own definition, FPS has a locked core gameplay design.

 

Plus, have you ever seen gameplay from other MMOs, like TERA, GW2 and Blade and Soul? They really have nothing in common with WOW and SWTOR other than the fact that there are abilities you can press. Other than that they play completely differently. SWTOR gameplay is 100% WOW copy paste. WOW gameplay was NOT 100% Everquest copy paste, no matter how you fanboys like to throw that around. WOW was the first MMO meant to be played with WASD, actually, that alone changed a lot of things. Then it introduced a lot of other stuff MMOs take for granted now, like the GCD.

 

Again.

 

WOW =/= EQ

SWTOR = WOW

 

Combat wise. Whether you like it or not. And this WILL cost the game a lot of gamers. A lot of people want to try something even SLIGHTLY different. TOR doesn't even do that SLIGHTLY different, it does the exact same thing.

 

GW2 and TERA have more in common with WoW than people think. Also the typical MMO combat will NOT hurt the game. There are just as many people that love that type of combat.

 

To say SWTOR is 100% copy from WoW just shows how narrow your view on MMOs are.

[Moriya]

Who needs innovation when you have light sabers?

[Icefoxy]

I still don't see how people could say this game lacks innovation. Though ME-style storytelling has been done before, and MMOs of this style have been done before, they've never really been combined like this before. That alone is an incredible feat of innovation.

 

Sometimes putting two common things together that you originally wouldn't have thought to can still be quite innovative. Chocolate chip cookies, for example! Invented by accident, don'tcha know it? Quite innovative though!

 

Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuk, and those they employ did not accidentally spill some story into their MMO batter and cook it. This was done quite on purpose. They ought to be applauded for innovating here. Not criticized for allegedly making a "WoW clone" and introducing us to the oh-so-terrible idea of "storygrind." *Facepalms*

Edited December 15, 2011 by Icefoxy

[Moriya]

in case you didnt see this.

 

Dev playing elementalist

Gotta say that looks pretty friggin' awesome.

[Staalker]

BioWare did mimic WoW. They said it in many interviews. You can argue it all you want, but they built this game to be like WoW.

 

That said, I like the game. The storytelling is what makes this game worth playing.

 

The storytelling, or better the method it's done in, is very important to this game.

 

First, it makes you feel more in touch with your character from a roleplaying aspect.

 

Second, you actually know WHY you are out killing 5 slugs for meat. Unlike most games where we just click and go, this game gives you many reasons to know why you are doing things.

 

Third, the cinematic nature of the storytelling helps to break the feeling of grinding. Sure, you are spending hours running around killing aliens to collect certain items, and you are grinding like in most other MMO's, but because you have to take that time out for dialog and story you don't feel that mindless grind like you do in most games.

 

That storytelling is SWTOR's saving grace, but it's also the achilles heel. If you don't like getting wrapped up in the story, you will find little else to appeal to you.

 

The only truly innovative thing beyond the story telling here is the crew skills system.

 

Being able to craft and such without having to stop your adventuring to do so is great. Something other games should look to copy.

 

Beyond these things, most of SWTOR is just like every other MMO out there.

 

Your missions are the same kinds of things, not like anyone expected anything really new there. Although I would like to have had a bounty terminal so my BH could go collect bounties since that is what she is...

 

I think SWTOR is too old school in some ways. Mimicking WoW is okay, overall, but it's an old game. Many other games have done many improvements snice WoW was new...and SWTOR seems to back up a few years in many regards.

 

Not being able to get off your taxi when you want...sorry, lotro spoiled me on that one.

Factional classes that are practially identical.

Lack of Costume options, where you can have an appearance that doesn't require you to find matching gear all the time.

Lack of character customization, overall.

 

These are minor things, though, in the grand scheme of things. But to see a game launch in 2011 without them, seems strange.

 

I am not knocking the game. Every game has PROS and CONS. If you disagree, fine. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid.

 

Cheers.

[Godsfear]

Gotta say that looks pretty friggin' awesome.

 

Yeah, I have no problem with people saying Stwors is a great game but this scythe idiot claiming GW2 isnt going to rock is foolish.

 

Anyone can watch that video and see that in ALPHA stage they have shown more info than arguably any other game to date.

 

GW2 is hitting closed beta this Friday and the final class has been released so my guess we will be playing the best mmo pvp ever in 8 months.

 

Btw another little tidbit I saw on a reddit post today from a Dev spokesperson was that they're working on the WvWvW pvp right now and that they have destructible castles in game and siege equipment. The dev also said they had a 500 player battle that went smoothly. The best part of his Q and A was though that at Arena net DAOC is there inspiration for the pvp.

 

3 servers fighting it out for bragging rights and server wide bonus's sounds like fun to me.

[MMaverick]

BioWare did mimic WoW. They said it in many interviews. You can argue it all you want, but they built this game to be like WoW.

 

That said, I like the game. The storytelling is what makes this game worth playing.

 

The storytelling, or better the method it's done in, is very important to this game.

 

First, it makes you feel more in touch with your character from a roleplaying aspect.

 

Second, you actually know WHY you are out killing 5 slugs for meat. Unlike most games where we just click and go, this game gives you many reasons to know why you are doing things.

 

Third, the cinematic nature of the storytelling helps to break the feeling of grinding. Sure, you are spending hours running around killing aliens to collect certain items, and you are grinding like in most other MMO's, but because you have to take that time out for dialog and story you don't feel that mindless grind like you do in most games.

 

That storytelling is SWTOR's saving grace, but it's also the achilles heel. If you don't like getting wrapped up in the story, you will find little else to appeal to you.

 

The only truly innovative thing beyond the story telling here is the crew skills system.

 

Being able to craft and such without having to stop your adventuring to do so is great. Something other games should look to copy.

 

Beyond these things, most of SWTOR is just like every other MMO out there.

 

Your missions are the same kinds of things, not like anyone expected anything really new there. Although I would like to have had a bounty terminal so my BH could go collect bounties since that is what she is...

 

I think SWTOR is too old school in some ways. Mimicking WoW is okay, overall, but it's an old game. Many other games have done many improvements snice WoW was new...and SWTOR seems to back up a few years in many regards.

 

Not being able to get off your taxi when you want...sorry, lotro spoiled me on that one.

Factional classes that are practially identical.

Lack of Costume options, where you can have an appearance that doesn't require you to find matching gear all the time.

Lack of character customization, overall.

 

These are minor things, though, in the grand scheme of things. But to see a game launch in 2011 without them, seems strange.

 

I am not knocking the game. Every game has PROS and CONS. If you disagree, fine. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid.

 

Cheers.

 

This post made me sad, because I agree with it, and it's true...

[Kabloosh]

UI, class design, art style (cartoony style nods at WoW's success), trinity, flightpoints are the same, menu interface is the same, guild interface is the same, PVP grouping functionality is the same.

 

Why change what works?

 

This game does have a far more engrossing questing experience then any other MMO out there. That is sort of innovative.

 

There really is a point though where you cannot be really innovative anymore. Essentially the next step is virtual reality and getting that to work cause we have all dreamed of the idea but it has yet to be put into practice in a large scale such as an MMO.

 

As for this MMO. They have definitely put A LOT of work into making this a successful game and aimed at giving us a very pleasing experience. I know a lot of people may take it for granted but I sure won't.

[Godsfear]

BioWare did mimic WoW. They said it in many interviews. You can argue it all you want, but they built this game to be like WoW.

 

That said, I like the game. The storytelling is what makes this game worth playing.

 

The storytelling, or better the method it's done in, is very important to this game.

 

First, it makes you feel more in touch with your character from a roleplaying aspect.

 

Second, you actually know WHY you are out killing 5 slugs for meat. Unlike most games where we just click and go, this game gives you many reasons to know why you are doing things.

 

Third, the cinematic nature of the storytelling helps to break the feeling of grinding. Sure, you are spending hours running around killing aliens to collect certain items, and you are grinding like in most other MMO's, but because you have to take that time out for dialog and story you don't feel that mindless grind like you do in most games.

 

That storytelling is SWTOR's saving grace, but it's also the achilles heel. If you don't like getting wrapped up in the story, you will find little else to appeal to you.

 

The only truly innovative thing beyond the story telling here is the crew skills system.

 

Being able to craft and such without having to stop your adventuring to do so is great. Something other games should look to copy.

 

Beyond these things, most of SWTOR is just like every other MMO out there.

 

Your missions are the same kinds of things, not like anyone expected anything really new there. Although I would like to have had a bounty terminal so my BH could go collect bounties since that is what she is...

 

I think SWTOR is too old school in some ways. Mimicking WoW is okay, overall, but it's an old game. Many other games have done many improvements snice WoW was new...and SWTOR seems to back up a few years in many regards.

 

Not being able to get off your taxi when you want...sorry, lotro spoiled me on that one.

Factional classes that are practially identical.

Lack of Costume options, where you can have an appearance that doesn't require you to find matching gear all the time.

Lack of character customization, overall.

 

These are minor things, though, in the grand scheme of things. But to see a game launch in 2011 without them, seems strange.

 

I am not knocking the game. Every game has PROS and CONS. If you disagree, fine. But that doesn't make my opinion any less valid.

 

Cheers.

 

Totally agree. It isnt so much that Swtors is bad as much as that it just isn't that good. I'll give it a go though for 3-6 months and have fun with it for what it is.

 

nice post.

[AssyrianMelkaUG]

Why change what works?

 

This game does have a far more engrossing questing experience then any other MMO out there. That is sort of innovative.

 

There really is a point though where you cannot be really innovative anymore. Essentially the next step is virtual reality and getting that to work cause we have all dreamed of the idea but it has yet to be put into practice in a large scale such as an MMO.

 

As for this MMO. They have definitely put A LOT of work into making this a successful game and aimed at giving us a very pleasing experience. I know a lot of people may take it for granted but I sure won't.

 

When you say it's worked around giving us a very pleasing experience what do you mean,

Roleplaying experience or PvP?

 

I myself haven't got to play ToR yet, but I'm a pvp heavy guy, I play MMO's for the PvP aspect, will I be let down?

Edited December 15, 2011 by AssyrianMelkaUG

[Sarfux]

heres a fact! this game IS better than wow...

 

why would you play wow when you can just play tor

[LordTie]

Last time i checked my lightsaber can cut your shield in wow in half. UMM Stop it with this crap please for once a game without this crappy comparison.

[Arkimor]

LOL? It's WoW with voice acting and everyone has pets. Oh and the Star Wars setting of course.

 

This.

 

This.

 

This.

 

It's WoW 2.0 in space, kids. Get over it.

[Tocaseven]

its only vanilla droid age plenty off time for inovation in the burning (crusade) planets.

[Staalker]

When you say it's worked around giving us a very pleasing experience what do you mean,

Roleplaying experience or PvP?

 

I myself haven't got to play ToR yet, but I'm a pvp heavy guy, I play MMO's for the PvP aspect, will I be let down?

 

My opinion is yes.

 

PvP isn't an afterthought, but it wasn't a main thought.

 

From my time in beta...I never found PvP enjoyable. I was on a PvP server, and open world PvP can add a level of excitement sometimes but overall I felt like it was lacking.

 

PvP warzones....didn't find them much fun. However, in the defense of that let me say that many people who PvP'd weren't really working together, and that is not the game's fault.

 

My beef is mainly that your class doesn't have a place in PvP, in my experience. It's going to come down to who can deal teh damage the fastest.

 

That isn't to say that healing and CC don't have a place...but in the overall scheme of things, expect to see PvP filled with DPS classes that are build for maximum damage in the shortest time.

 

That might be your cup of tea, but for me I like to see a variety in PvP. Why even have the force if I can't use it?

[Vyruzvetrix]

It's WoW 2.0 in space, kids. Get over it.

 

And who would rather play WoW 1.0 than 2.0?

 

Honestly, how "different" can you make an RPG based game anyway?

[AssyrianMelkaUG]

My opinion is yes.

 

PvP isn't an afterthought, but it wasn't a main thought.

 

From my time in beta...I never found PvP enjoyable. I was on a PvP server, and open world PvP can add a level of excitement sometimes but overall I felt like it was lacking.

 

PvP warzones....didn't find them much fun. However, in the defense of that let me say that many people who PvP'd weren't really working together, and that is not the game's fault.

 

My beef is mainly that your class doesn't have a place in PvP, in my experience. It's going to come down to who can deal teh damage the fastest.

 

That isn't to say that healing and CC don't have a place...but in the overall scheme of things, expect to see PvP filled with DPS classes that are build for maximum damage in the shortest time.

 

That might be your cup of tea, but for me I like to see a variety in PvP. Why even have the force if I can't use it?

 

I like team-based PvP, where a team actually has to work together, pick specific targets, take them out. 3-2-1 things over vent or mumble. Also getting a team and coming up with team compositions.

So there won't be a guild ladder or anything like that? or tournaments in the future?

any word on that?

Edited December 15, 2011 by AssyrianMelkaUG