Loekii Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I said it was pointless not wrong or against the forums intent. And you are entitled to that opinion. However, without evidence to support it, it is just your opinion. I feel the it is not pointless, which is my opinion, so we sit a draw. In otherwords, the discussion is open to continue, as there is no clear winner. Ergo, it is a discussion among people that share a common interest, but different views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Except that the reality also includes shades of gray, and not just white and black. You are only providing two choices: Bugfest and Bugless. How about something more accurate: Very buggy, buggy, stable, almost no bugs, no bugs? No, in this case it's pretty absolute. In the history of MMOs, there has yet to be one that didn't have a plethora of bugs at launch at least. It hasn't happened. However, as for you classifications, SWTOR would be considered "stable", since it has yet to experience any unplanned downtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raventhorpe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Except that he didn't "disprove" anything. Because you cannot disprove or prove something in science. All he did was, proving that previous physics were false and provided his own theories which were taking as true until proven otherwise, which Einstein did later and then Einstein was proven wrong by quantum physics also. Science does not operate on proving facts, it operates on disproving theories. Edit: looking at my post I did counter argue myself in it. In any case, you should still get the point of it. Sound theory is often regarded as fact until disproved. A fact is really the most commonly accepted theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I don't get this thread. I'm not making excuses for this MMO. This game is great. Edited January 22, 2012 by Rion_Starkiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoobie Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Costumers actually have a certain right to be pissed off if TERA doenst release (NA/EU) in almost perfect conditions, they have that thing running in korea for like half a year so its not on the same boat as TOR. Aion was too, but I still think it launched in the NA fairly bugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 No, in this case it's pretty absolute. In the history of MMOs, there has yet to be one that didn't have a plethora of bugs at launch at least. It hasn't happened. However, as for you classifications, SWTOR would be considered "stable", since it has yet to experience any unplanned downtime. Because hardware is much more advanced now and no mmos that come out have servers crushing, unless made by a student project team. With this game having 200$ million spent in development and with the hardware that the servers are running on now, having them crush would be very unlikely one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 33 pages of nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 33 pages of nothing 33 pages of FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Then go complain about a games bugs BEFORE launch, if that's your issue. Imo, I would say that the message is that rather than fight people that are critical during devepment, all customers should push for the game to be the very best it can be at launch. For example. Someone might have an issue about how the Auction House works during Beta. I do not care about AH systems. They push for improvements, so I either support the improvement or investigation by the developer for improvement, or I do not comment. The problem is that here, we saw people attacking critics, not because they thought the AH was the best, but because they did not think someone should criticize BW. And so we launch with an reduced quality AH, that even BW is working on now improving. Basically, it is about fans fighting against anyone saying something negative, rather than supporting that a developer do the very best they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plexas Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Aion was too, but I still think it launched in the NA fairly bugged. i played for it like 9 months, i didnt see any bugs to be fair. the only issue was how obvious the level cap increase was tacked on. up to 40 the game was fine, the leveling was smooth. once you got past 40 you were forced to grind mobs for hours on end which shows the expansion was clearly rushed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMonger Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Because hardware is much more advanced now and no mmos that come out have servers crushing, unless made by a student project team. The Rift servers crashed multiple times shortly after release. Try again. With this game having 200$ million spent in development and with the hardware that the servers are running on now, having them crush would be very unlikely one way or another. You do realize that when the servers "crash", it's caused by failures in the application, right? It isn't normally hardware related, right? Or do you have so little familiarity with the way large computer applications work that you honestly believe hardware can prevent the kind of software failures that lead to server downtime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Imo, I would say that the message is that rather than fight people that are critical during devepment, all customers should push for the game to be the very best it can be at launch. For example. Someone might have an issue about how the Auction House works during Beta. I do not care about AH systems. They push for improvements, so I either support the improvement or investigation by the developer for improvement, or I do not comment. The problem is that here, we saw people attacking critics, not because they thought the AH was the best, but because they did not think someone should criticize BW. And so we launch with an reduced quality AH, that even BW is working on now improving. Basically, it is about fans fighting against anyone saying something negative, rather than supporting that a developer do the very best they can. I m a hater, but you have a hole in your argument. Some of the critical changes that are requested might change the current gameplay for the people who like it the way it is. For example raids being nerfed or not. I agree with you partly, but goes both ways, people criticising should try to see the changes they want from another side as well. Which I do not think should apply to bugs, since fixing those should be supported by both fanboys and haters in theory, but its not for some reason on this forum lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raventhorpe Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 And you are entitled to that opinion. However, without evidence to support it, it is just your opinion. I feel the it is not pointless, which is my opinion, so we sit a draw. In otherwords, the discussion is open to continue, as there is no clear winner. Ergo, it is a discussion among people that share a common interest, but different views. Interesting use of common interest. I would not suggest someone is interested if they are hanging about posting on the forums til they can no longer. Failr implied this in an earlier post and then did not deny it when I commented on it. Brings me back to unless you are invested long term it is quite pointless as you are not hanging about til the issue you have is resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I don't get this thread. I'm not making excuses for this MMO. This game is great. If the game is great, why is BW releasing patches and press about how they are listening to customers and making changes? I am not saying that your opinion about the game being great is 'wrong', but rather pointing out that it seems that not everyone -- including BW -- feels the game is great. What the OP is basically suggesting, is that TOR should have launched with Patch 3.0, rather than launching without it. And the way to see that happen in future games, is to push for that, rather than arguing with people that are suggesting it. Ultimately, we are all customers that want to see the game be great, for the most part, so less fighting with critics and more asking developers to do a better job at launch, is a good thing for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The Rift servers crashed multiple times shortly after release. Try again. You do realize that when the servers "crash", it's caused by failures in the application, right? It isn't normally hardware related, right? Or do you have so little familiarity with the way large computer applications work that you honestly believe hardware can prevent the kind of software failures that lead to server downtime? Its caused by different reasons, and I am a software developer myself, which I don't even know if its worth mentioning on this forum lol, but you r right in part. You never seen hardware related CTD crashes have you? Crash can be caused by both software and hardware fault. As for rift having "crashes", I ve seen a couple downtimes in SWTOR that had no warning as well, were those crashes by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 33 pages of nothing Well, for these forums, we can probably count it as an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Why do you think having a responsive UI is an unreachable standard when WoW had that feature at launch? Sounds rather delusional... do you really want to comapre the two launches? Because SWTOR beats WoWs launch hands down. WoWs launch is consider to be one of the worst out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I m a hater, but you have a hole in your argument. Some of the critical changes that are requested might change the current gameplay for the people who like it the way it is. For example raids being nerfed or not. I agree with you partly, but goes both ways, people criticising should try to see the changes they want from another side as well. Which I do not think should apply to bugs, since fixing those should be supported by both fanboys and haters in theory, but its not for some reason on this forum lol. I agree. It doesn't apply to 'all criticism'. My bad for not making that more clear. However, imo, we have seen the issue where criticism that even BW is now adding to their patches, were met with vitriol and name calling by fans of the game. Basically, it is about pointing out there is too much blanket attacks on critics, and that this seems to result in Developers releasing games of lessor quality (patching up after launch). Imo, it would be a lot better if we had seen TOR launch with say patch 3.0 (future patches, less obvious content), as a result of a more united front presented by the 'future customers', and less in fighting between fans and critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 do you really want to comapre the two launches? Because SWTOR beats WoWs launch hands down. WoWs launch is consider to be one of the worst out there. Ability delay is still ingame, and it has been out for over a month, can you really still call this launch? Or when does the launch phase end? A year after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barathos Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 do you really want to comapre the two launches? Because SWTOR beats WoWs launch hands down. WoWs launch is consider to be one of the worst out there. I guess EQ1's launch was amazing? Since we like to compare old games to new games and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tronics Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 SWTOR Test Server 1.1.1 Patch Notes: “Star Wars: The Old Republic – 1.1.1 Patch Notes Note: The Public Test Server patch notes will be provided in English. The final release notes will be provided in English, French, and German when the content is moved to live servers. Classes and Combat General Fixed a bug that could cause the Global Cooldown to appear as if it has been cancelled when it is actually still in effect, resulting in a feeling of unresponsiveness to input. Corrected an issue that could cause an ability icon to appear usable but be unresponsive to clicks or keypresses for several seconds. Players revived by other players, including by in-combat revival abilities, now revive with 25% of maximum health. Jedi Knight Guardian Freezing Force: Now correctly lasts 9 seconds (up from 6 seconds). Jedi Consular Sage Mental Alacrity: Now correctly costs no Force to activate. Salvation: No longer heals targets twice on application. It now correctly heals all affected targets once when applied. Smuggler Scoundrel Flechette Round: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. K.O.: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Shoot First: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Imperial Agent Operative Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Bounty Hunter Mercenary Sweeping Blasters can now be made free with Thermal Sensor Override. Powertech Oil Slick now correctly costs no heat to activate. Flashpoints and Operations Flashpoints Directive 7 Bulwark’s Area of Effect cone abilities now properly fire in the direction Bulwark is facing. Some of Bulwark’s abilities were incorrectly susceptible to interruption. Bulwark is now immune to interrupts. The False Emperor Fixed a conversation that could cause the cinematic with Arkis Wode to function incorrectly. The Foundry Fixed an issue that could prevent the final fight in this Flashpoint from beginning after the cinematic. The final boss can no longer become stuck in an invulnerable state; there was still a small window where this could occur. The Red Reaper Lord Kherus now grants less experience. Some of Lord Kherus’s abilities have had their damage values adjusted to be more in line with the level of the Flashpoint. Players now enter into melee range with Lord Kherus in order to stop him from throwing crates. Operations Eternity Vault Players no longer randomly die in this Operation after being in Gharj’s lava. Karagga’s Palace Foreman Crusher’s enrage now includes a movement speed increase, allowing him to catch players who attempt to run. Fixed an issue that prevented the Materials Disposal Unit’s main control station from becoming useable again after the Operation Group is defeated by the G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator on 16-man Hard Mode. Fixed an issue that prevented the G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator from deploying the correct number of Proximity Pulse Mines and Security Stun Drones during combat. Karagga no longer snaps up above portions of the walls during combat. Bug Fixes General Fixed an issue that prevented some players in Operations Groups from receiving credit for the missions “[WEEKLY] Deadly Operations,” “[WEEKLY] Galactic Operations,” and “Journey to the Belsavis Depths.” The entire Operations Group now receives credit when the objective is completed. Items Bug Fixes Comparative tooltips for researched items no longer have their stats reversed. Missions and NPCs Missions Imperial Number One with a Bullet: Corrected an issue that prevented Bounty Hunters from leaving The Founder. The Eagle’s Nest: The Assassin’s Fortress mission is now correctly a prerequisite for this mission. The Mandalorian Killer: Thendys Noori no longer continues to heal Kellian Jarro after she has surrendered. Republic Death Spiral: Fixed an issue that prevented Jedi Knights who completed the Commander Rayfel encounter from using the shuttle back to Belsavis Orbital Station. PvP Warzones Fixed an issue that could prevent players from receiving mission rewards for completing Warzones. Space Combat General Added two daily mission commendations to the high-level space dailies Operation Ascendant Pride (Imperial) and Operation New Eclipse (Republic). UI General Attempting to loot an item in a group when the Master Looter is off-planet now generates an error message. Bug Fixes The leader of an Operations Group will no longer receive an incorrect message informing them that their companion has been dismissed. Miscellaneous Bug Fixes Special items related to different editions of the game have been re-sent if they were deleted by the mail system prior to being claimed.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Ability delay is still ingame, and it has been out for over a month, can you really still call this launch? Or when does the launch phase end? A year after? You've convinced me. You should clearly be playing WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Tronics the amount of "now correctly" this and that that is in those patch notes makes me scared lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failr Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) You've convinced me. You should clearly be playing WoW. Don't like WOW, played it since vanilla for a long time, trying out RIFT atm, seems ok so far, got one char to max level, lots of content, no ability delay. Edited January 22, 2012 by failr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartalectwo Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If the game is great, why is BW releasing patches and press about how they are listening to customers and making changes? Because... that's what developers do. They develop. It is possible for something to be great and yet have room for improvement. The idea that SWTOR needs work, therefore it cannot be great, is just too simple a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts