Blood_Burger Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Agreed OP. Its 2012 and this game is missing so many "easy" features... The game does feel pretty dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Locke Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Basicly they just focused too much on wow , their core should be way more original.Whatever new they did was awesome , but they did so few new stuff. And what you are describing is amazing , but it is in essence a Star wars galaxies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Locke Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So to sum up, OP came to theme park MMO, says "where's my sandbox mmo?" /thread QFT , sad and true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Great post, some nice ideas. But.... Player housing??? Its not a sandbox MMO Bounty hunter flying??? Again, the worlds are not designed to have people flying around in them. This is good as we wouldnt want it like WoW where everyone flys over and skips the world. Maybe make it like force leap?? Alot of the stuff is trivial and will probably get added in the next coming months. Remember, this is a new MMO, you gotta have patience for things to get ironed out. You got it spot on about the dead worlds though. Hopefully BW will sort this out. but again its gonna take time. Alot of these kids on here have the patience of a ant. Great post though. Thumbs up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoloVersio Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 See, the OP is the more of the kind of post we need on this forum. More of this, less of the "I'm unsubbing just FYI kthxbye" crap. I agree with a lot of what you say. I am enjoying the game tremendously. SWTOR really has some great strengths, but there are a lot of ways that it can improve. And there is plenty of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrownedOut Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Good post. At times when I am playing I wonder where all the budget really went to. Decent game, but I did expect more on launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechTrooper Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I totally agree with the OP. There are a lot of things that were good about SWG and other MMO's that could improve this game from a "great game to play for 6 months until you do everything" to a "I feel like my characters live here". From a game maker perspective that means years of a steady revenue stream instead of a big peak and consolidating servers within a year because of people going to the next big game release. As to the folks to say it's story driven and not a sandbox. Can we not have both at this point in time? Devs don't have to reinvent the wheel here. I love the Bioware stories and the quest interactions. I just would like to just have it feel more like a complete MMO and not KOTOR with multiplayer functionality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I totally agree with the OP. There are a lot of things that were good about SWG and other MMO's that could improve this game from a "great game to play for 6 months until you do everything" to a "I feel like my characters live here". From a game maker perspective that means years of a steady revenue stream instead of a big peak and consolidating servers within a year because of people going to the next big game release. As to the folks to say it's story driven and not a sandbox. Can we not have both at this point in time? Devs don't have to reinvent the wheel here. I love the Bioware stories and the quest interactions. I just would like to just have it feel more like a complete MMO and not KOTOR with multiplayer functionality. I look forward a themed sandbox... not a sandboxed theme park though Edited January 23, 2012 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftdh Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 << OP's wall of text >> think of the game like this... it is beta v2.0 that we need to pay for because bioware spent soo much money making it they needed to increase their funds so they could continue to improve/develop the game ./thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryzerion Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 5 stars!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevron Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The OP pretty much hit an entire warehouse worth of nails with one giant hammer right on the head. Due to my particular interest, I especially agree with the dead world and world PvP aspects of the points made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirq Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) The OP does make some good valid points in my opinion. The dead world feel is particularly starting to bother me and with my BH now being L48 and questing in Corellia, it's probably the killing blow for me personally. It's just so lifeless and dull no amount of story or voice acting can bring that place to life. It's not like it's the only lifeless world too because many other zones feel like this and are just not fun for me personally. It's not just the lifeless feel though, it's also the design of the worlds. Opinions are obviously subjective and I realize others may like these zones and enjoy the questing but few could argue against them feeling lifeless. I never expected to feel like this after one months play and am quite gutted to be honest as I've been following this game since it was first announced and was expecting it to be more exciting and vibrant. No doubt it will get better and improve quite a bit over time, I just don't think it's going to improve enough for me to remain interested. I agree - I get the feeling that a talented artist made all the models but then handed the mouse over to an accountant and said "here, just right click to place all these enemies around the zone" And for the record, I've always been more into Scifi & star wars environments / settings much MUCH more than elves and gnomes..... But... game-play and liveliness will trump the theme in many situations. I'm not saying we need day / night cycles but come on .. the world seems dead. The enemy's are haphazardly placed in groups of 3 randomly ! Did the secretary or phone operator place the enemy NPC's in this game or what? It just seems like they were put there because someone thought X zone needed Y number of mobs in this area... I feel like there was no "care" put into into making the game-world. Sure the graphics alone are good to great for a MMORPG - congrats on that.. Story Great job too !! but... after that.... This issue of deadness was blatantly apparent within the first 5 levels of this game. To all those who say give it a chance ... Trust me...I know .. I want too - seriously. I didn't spend 80 bucks to not play the game. With that said I noticed the deadness, and the sloppy combat right away and its been somewhat of a chore to muster up the desire to want to play this game :-( I'm bummed out because when I see a game advertized as an MMORPG I think of - Anarchy Online, DAOC, WoW, SWG (pre nrg) etc... in short (and this is vague) but if I were the lead dev i'd say this to my team - First - Make sure combat feels natural, fluid, and FUN Second- Make sure the first 10 levels are the best levels in MMO history... first impressions are made here. Third - Make the game-world alive, robust, and fluid. I'd lecture them on what other games have done and that we need to do it better - as gamers - we expect improvement and enhancements to any title after something as commercially successful as WoW- so if we're making a similar game (and all MMORPG's are based on a somewhat standard rule-set) I'd stress we need to do it better... just like WoW did it better in its time. fourth- Customer service & rinse and repeat the above and try and vary up the quests a little more to the level cap. Fifth - Make some fun and intriguing end game content for end-game raiders - and make sure there are places that these higher level characters can gather up and interact - while being seen by the lower levels - a carrot on the stick for the lowbie toons - something that shows them what they have to look forward too !! Sixth - Good PvP (I won't stress complete and total balance if I was pressed for time.. but i'd say get it reasonably balanced for launch and we can tweak later) but it should be functional and fun at launch- this is now expected by players - to think otherwise is asinine. Seventh - crafting- make it fun - much like SWG but improve it more *(ties into eighth)* Eighth - more sandbox elements to give people something to do when they are not Raiding and PvP'ing. (this is eight on the list... hence it shouldn't be something that consumes 40% of the dev's time .. but come ... you wanna compete with whats out there.. add this in for extra - something that even if 80% of players don't engage in housing and furniture right away ... at some-point later they might mess around with it) and its 1 more reason that they can say "SWTOR has that too" Ninth- Promise only what you know you can deliver and my all means deliver that well - In conclusion - I want to love SWTOR - but it's barely lukewarm at best in my eyes. These guys had to know what the competition is offering .... And someone would have to be crazy if they were planning on sinking 100 million or more into a MMORPG game that wasn't going to be as good as WoW on all levels. Ask yourself this - if you were going to spend 100 million or more on a game in the same category as WoW... would you not try and reduce the risk by making sure it meets or exceeds the average WoW players expectations? To succeed in this market the powers at EA and BW should have known that they would have to do it better than Blizz - And that doesn't mean it needs to be bigger than WoW- but it does need to be better than WoW. It can still be different from WoW, but it still needs to play better than WoW. WoW - was not original as many have pointed out - many look to everquest or UO who were among the first true computerized versions of MMORPG's. They were the first MMORPG's on PC, but they were also considered very difficult as you could lose items, or even levels in those games. Then along came Funcom - who wanted to make a scifi MMORPG that didn't punish the player nearly as much as EQ or UO. In reality, Anarchy Online and later DAOC were the games that WoW had borrowed from most, and all WoW did was take the best of these games and repackage it in the warcraft universe - WoW's uniqueness came from getting more things RIGHT than they did WRONG - something that none of its predecessors had yet managed to do distinctively well. In addition and just as important - WoW also was released at a time when home computers were becoming a staple item inside the average middle income home. These computers were roughly all powered by various versions of the intel P4 processor so it was much easier for blizzard to write a game that would run on most systems (as the hobbyist DYI computer was not yet en-vogue to your average user) This is huge !!! - The first time in history that a MMORPG was released to the general consumer market of PC owners who all roughly had similar computer systems - These were the days when every other commercial on TV was "Dude you're getting DELL!!" lol So SWTOR - you need to be better than all the rest - and that's where I think this game has potential...but everyday that the servers are up and nothing changes ... that potential dwindles. Edited January 23, 2012 by Cirq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daawg Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am and was in a RAID guild in everquest 2. Raid time. 8pm EST. Typical Scenario: Guild....dead...quiet all day........Come raid time....everyone logs in....RAID ensues.....loot divied up.........Members parting words..... Going to play SWTOR.....WOW......BF3....COD...... In other words...raiding has become the end......there is nothing left....no reason for the players to be there before or after the raid..... An MMO is about sandboxing.... If its about Raiding and PVP'ing it will end up just like other raid MMO's......just a place to show up...show off....talk trash about HOW GREAT of a key smasher they are......then go play something else. I have said many times since launch....either make this a PVP FPS or an MMO but doing both is just not really possible....because in the end you will just make everyone disappointed with your product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulstitchMMO Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Bioware should have stuck with KOTOR 3. They have absolutely failed at MMO. Absolutely. Where did the $200 million dollars go that was spent on this? Obviously they scraped the bottom of the barrel for some of the lead developers. So many absolute mistakes that have been corrected in so many other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troja Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Well said Cirq, and kudos to the OP for the detailed constructive criticism. I agree with much that is being said of the games potential. I need to feel more connected to the world, immersion is probably the word I'm looking for. A more sandbox feel to the environment even if it's only smoke and mirrors would help in this regard I reckon. Edited February 8, 2012 by Troja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TESTBUILD Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 These are all opinions, not all are needed in everyone's aspect of mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukks Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Some good points. WTB player housing. haven't had it in an MMO I've played since FFXI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzlightning Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING OP SAID!! This should be the things the devs look at and focus on. I came here to post my own "heres what i want to make it the best game ever" but this just said everthing i was going to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godbane Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Thanks for taking the time to post this OP because it was well thought out and thorough. I agree completely. Of course, some of the issues are larger than others, but the end result is so many pieces don't fall into place that it is conspiring to tarnish the whole game. To me, the worst is absolutely the uninspired endgame. Ilum, even after the latest revision, is still far from being an engaging open world PVP destination. It is a shame to see so much space not utilized, objectives largely ignored except for the center, and no population balancing mechanisms. Ilum desperately needs a clear design vision that involves fun, fair, and rewarding PVP. The PVE endgame also suffers from uninteresting mechanics and repetitive structure. Both PVP and PVE also have unrewarding gears systems that stifle motivation. I expected a lot more from a developer of BioWare/Mythic's caliber. Edited January 23, 2012 by Godbane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulstitchMMO Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks for taking the time to post this OP because it was well thought out and thorough. I agree completely. Of course, some of the issues are larger than others, but the end result is so many pieces don't fall into place that it is conspiring to tarnish the whole game. To me, the worst is absolutely the uninspired endgame. Ilum, even after the latest revision, is still far from being an engaging open world PVP destination. It is a shame to see so much space not utilized, objectives largely ignored except for the center, and no population balancing mechanisms. Ilum desperately needs a clear design vision that involves fun, fair, and rewarding PVP. The PVE endgame also suffers from uninteresting mechanics and repetitive structure. Both PVP and PVE also have unrewarding gears systems that stifle motivation. I expected a lot more from a developer of BioWare/Mythic's caliber. The game was very much inspired. By World of Warcraft. I said this about a million times all through beta. SWTOR is Kotor 3, with WOW End Game. That's about it. Now we find out that it also is completely featureless when it comes to even the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawtubb Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BW should have hired you. SW:ToR is just a theme park and we are all just visitors waiting in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ielaz Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvonuk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 love it Me too, all i got from the OP was "make this game more like wow" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSabreth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I am a huge fan of TOR but even i will agree that the game should have a few more RP elements added to the game like being able to sit in all seats and an active weather system and a day and night cycle. not to mention alchahaul and spice that has an effect on the charecter. even WOW has this stuff and its a game made in 2004. good grief i have a sour taste in my mouth for saying anything positive about wow /sigh! Edited January 23, 2012 by DarthSabreth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevron Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Me too, all i got from the OP was "make this game more like wow" That's the opposite of what is true. It's already just WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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