Gleneagle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The gameplay, ability design, talent design, themepark quest design, gear progression style, instance design, and much of the PvP design is very similar to WoW's from about five years ago. It's fair to make comparisons when things are similar. If it doesn't stop there, maybe. A chessboard and a checkerboard look much alike as well, but comparing the two evaluates neither game. You don't really evaluate the game until you experience it. If you play checkers with chess pieces you are still playing checkers. If you play WoW in SWTOR you will be disappointed, but if you play SWTOR in SWTOR you enjoy it, and stay tuned for further development. ...Acting as though nothing any other MMO dev team has done in the last 5 years is relevant to this game and its success is an ignorant faith-based preconception of how markets work, unless you think the only criterion this game should be judged on is "Can I play Star Wars online?" ... Unmerited trashing of this game damages the intangible value of the property. If you are going to evaluate the product then evaluate the product. Drawing comparison to WoW is as inappropriate as drawing comparison to Earth and Beyond. The market will settle itself out but there is no public basis until the quarterly results are published. Until then you are speculating without basis. Edited January 25, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleMagick Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 SWTOR is about as different from WOW as Mortal Kombat 4 is from Street Fighter 4, as Batlefield is from Call of Duty, as Starcraft is from Command and COnquer, or as WoW was from Everquest. Games within genres generally share commonalities. This does not mean that every game that comes out needs to be completely defined by the game that came before it in the genre. I came from Rift and I think its funny that when Rift came out people were complaining that it was too much like WoW. Now SWTOR has come out and people are complaining that its not enough like WoW. Here's a tip. Forget about WoW. Judge games by their individual merit. If you find it impossible to forget about WoW, then go back to WoW. PS: WoW 2004 >>>>>>>>>>>> WoW 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Few accountants optimize code. Nor bookkeepers. You need glasses. But there you go judging one thing by comparing it to other things instead of evaluating the thing in itself. If Trion did well with that product then that is wonderful, but reveals nothing at all about SWTOR. You and some others appear to have a real problem evaluating any game in itself. The only thing you seem able to do is look everywhere else than what you should be focused on. Looking at Trion tells you only about Trion. It tells you nothing whatsoever about SWTOR. You guys bought into the idea that SWTOR was WoW, utterly failed to notice the differences, and then <moves lamp> on the one hand declared SWTOR a WOW clone, on the other hand declared SWTOR failed to be WoW, and on the other hand actually played through to fifty as if it really were a WoW clone and then pronounced it a failure because it wasn't WoW. It wasn't a WoW clone to begin with, hello? The problem is in you and those like you. You failed to adequately identify the game and then failed to adapt to your new environment. If it weren't a game you would be a member of an extinct specie, a fossilized remnant, a footprint in the stone. The problem isn't Bioware, it is in your faith-based preconceptions that don't need no steenking facts. Thats a lot of words for someone that completely abandons knowledge of BASIC business principals. ..And yes, this game is ABSOLUTELY a wow clone in almost every way. God man, look at the HEALING CLASSES to start with. Or how about the TANK classes. This is not someones opinion, this is FACT. Actually, why dont you show me ONE AREA (outside of voiceovers) where this game strays from the WoW mold. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzarel Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Think personally however can't speak for anyone else, im more angry with the situation than actually bioware, i can see they working hard to fix things, and also realistically enough to know its hard to consider every variables in a game in the sizes of a MMO, even with extensive testings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taurusaud Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) People are ridiculous. I've been a software developer for over 20 years, and a 1st release always has bugs, in 1986, 2004, and yes, in 2012. The problem is some of these bugs are issues with the framework itself (i.e. ability delay), it's game-breaking to many players and it's recently come out that Bioware was warned about this issue with HeroEngine early on in development yet they chose to ignore the warning and continue building the entire game around this unreliable and asynchronous code. Unless Bioware rewrites much of the game they aren't gonna be able to fix this. It was a stupid move to write code on a known faulty foundation but they did it anyway. It's such a novice mistake that makes you wonder what other stupid mistakes they've made (and given the sheer number of bugs in production it seems like far too many from my perspective). Edited January 25, 2012 by Taurusaud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeyeli Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I subbed for another month, and probably will keep giving them my money as long as i enjoy the game. Having said that, i personally dont think they deserve any praise, there is just too many little bugs and little annoyances, that together add up to make the game not as enjoyable as it should. Like i said they will keep getting my 15 bucks, mostly because i have faith in them, but they deserve no praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Unless Bioware rewrites much of the game they aren't gonna be able to fix this. It was a stupid move to write code on a known faulty foundation but they did it anyway. It's such a novice mistake that makes you wonder what other stupid mistakes they've made (and given the sheer number of bugs in production it seems like far too many from my perspective). Pretty much the troof. Had this conversation in guild many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTAMoonDawg Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You can't put out a game to compete with WoW and have it be inferior to WoW in nearly every facet save story. I mean it's just common sense. Do you have any idea how bad WoW was when it was first released? It took years for Blizzard to make WoW what it is today. No game is going to be perfect right off the bat. BioWare is used to single player games, so it may take time for them to get the hang of improving SWTOR. I still trust them completely, so I know they will get the game up to par with WoW soon enough. (In my opinion, I already like it better!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadulator Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 that's a pretty POS system for a CG artist to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merex Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I can't wait for 1.2. I have a feeling that patch is just going to be massive from a bugfix/feature point of view, not to mention the extra content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahlin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Do you have any idea how bad WoW was when it was first released? It took years for Blizzard to make WoW what it is today. No game is going to be perfect right off the bat. BioWare is used to single player games, so it may take time for them to get the hang of improving SWTOR. I still trust them completely, so I know they will get the game up to par with WoW soon enough. (In my opinion, I already like it better!) They aren't competing with release WoW for peoples money. They're competing with WoW RIGHT NOW for peoples money. The idea of "Keep giving them money, it'll get better eventually" is a stupid one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Do you have any idea how bad WoW was when it was first released? It took years for Blizzard to make WoW what it is today. No game is going to be perfect right off the bat. BioWare is used to single player games, so it may take time for them to get the hang of improving SWTOR. I still trust them completely, so I know they will get the game up to par with WoW soon enough. (In my opinion, I already like it better!) WoW was better than EQ/UO/AC at the time. In almost every way(EXCEPT endgame). So take the endgame comparisons away, and can you say the same about SWTOR vs Current MMO's? Lets pretend go one step further and pretend WoW doesnt even exist....that comparison just STILL looks awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantragk Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 They aren't competing with release WoW for peoples money. They're competing with WoW RIGHT NOW for peoples money. The idea of "Keep giving them money, it'll get better eventually" is a stupid one. It's the mentality SE was trying to pull with XIV. They on the other hand decided that their game was in such bad shape that they gave away something around 14 months for free. TOR is no where near as bad as XIV though, nor am I claiming it is. But TOR is defiantly not up to snuff with 2012. BW should have just written their own engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeyeli Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Do you have any idea how bad WoW was when it was first released? It took years for Blizzard to make WoW what it is today. No game is going to be perfect right off the bat. BioWare is used to single player games, so it may take time for them to get the hang of improving SWTOR. I still trust them completely, so I know they will get the game up to par with WoW soon enough. (In my opinion, I already like it better!) You are 100% right, WoW didnt come out being everything it is today. The thing is, im not playing WoW, im playing swtor, i really dont give a **** about WoW. The reason why i whine, when i do on the forums, is because i like this game, hell i cant go back to questing with little textboxes full of unimporant crap. I understand people will always compare this game to WoW its inevitable, and people always say, "WoW didnt have all the stuff at lauch, it has now, bla bla", but imo, swtor isnt competing with WoW 2003, its competing with WoW 2011, and the general gamer will not cut them any slack. Edited January 25, 2012 by Mikeyeli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Thats a lot of words for someone that completely abandons knowledge of BASIC business principals. principles. ..And yes, this game is ABSOLUTELY a wow clone in almost every way. God man, look at the HEALING CLASSES to start with. Or how about the TANK classes. This is not someones opinion, this is FACT. Like Rift is a clone of WoW. Like WoW is a clone of everquest and everquest was a clone of Meridian 59. Like a checkerboard is a clone of a chessboard. Games play differently even though the basics are all quite similar. That says they are all designed for the same audience, but does not recognize the differences. Everquest was not Meridian 59. WoW was not Everquest. Rift is not WoW. SWTOR is not WoW. And Chess is not checkers. I know: I tried to king my bishop and the pieces fell over. Each game is itself, and should stand or fall because of what it is, and not because it is not some other game. You still clearly don't get it that you failed to accurately identify your environment so you failed to adapt your play to it and consequently failed to enjoy the game, you triceratops you. Even if you were trying to play RIFT in SWTOR rather than WoW, it would not work out the same and you would be disappointed. Actually, why dont you show me ONE AREA (outside of voiceovers) where this game strays from the WoW mold. Go. SWTOR is strongly and inescapably story based. Story is the key to SWTOR. If you skipped through the story, if you didn't connect with the story like you would a book, like you should have in Mass Effect, then you won't find much of real value that you cannot find elsewhere. You don't like a good story? No offense intended, and I'd really prefer you found a way to enjoy yourself with us here, but maybe you should go back to Rift where you enjoyed your style of play. Doesn't that just make sense? Edited January 25, 2012 by Gleneagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaseoi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 They aren't competing with release WoW for peoples money. They're competing with WoW RIGHT NOW for peoples money. The idea of "Keep giving them money, it'll get better eventually" is a stupid one. who on earth said they were competing with WoW? Is every MMO that comes out people will scream it's competing with WoW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The story dude? The STORY? Go to the library my friend. The 'stories' you get in this game are tacked on c-grade generic sci-fi stuff. The 'stories' arent even nearly up to par with OTHER BIOWARE GAMES. Wait, is it ok if i compare Bioware stories to Bioware stories? Actually you know what, i dont care, and neither does the rest of the paying public that Bioware needs to keep development rolling. You are just so far off base its ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) who on earth said they were competing with WoW? Is every MMO that comes out people will scream it's competing with WoW? uhhhhhhhhhh....is this a trick question? How about Bioware. When they made the game exactly like WoW-lite. Edited January 25, 2012 by Iusedtoplaywow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkimor Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 First I'd like to say that the forums are overrun with angry end content rushing pvp gankers who don't feel all powerful so they complain until they are. Stopped reading there. It's a sub-par MMO, everyone I play with agrees, but we still play with the hopes that it will get better; but we won't for too much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skorpius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 BW isn't getting the praise they deserve because they don't deserve it. This game was hyped up to be the next big mmo , and it fell short imo. There are certain expectations that gamers look for in a new product , especially from a well known company. Why are you here then WoW is over there -----------------------------------> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jswizzle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Wow someone mentioned Meridian 59 besides me. +1 Everquest just couldn't match the PVP of Meridian 59. PVP on EQ was fun and all, but it wasn't like M59. When you win or lose in PVP on m59 you might as well forget about sleeping for the night. You will either be too pumped up or too angry to sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtoplaywow Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Arkimor your sig is hilarious. They are so hard up for subs that they dont even do anything about you but slap you on the wrist 20+ times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehoornde Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I like SWTOR because it's WoW with lightsabers. It's a praise if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaseoi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) uhhhhhhhhhh....is this a trick question? How about Bioware. When they made the game exactly like WoW-lite. Did they quote it though? You can make something similar but that does not mean at all they are competing with it. I never heard bioware say "We are making this game to take down and or compete with World of Warcraft" Edited January 25, 2012 by kaseoi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The story dude? The STORY? Go to the library my friend. The 'stories' you get in this game are tacked on c-grade generic sci-fi stuff. The 'stories' arent even nearly up to par with OTHER BIOWARE GAMES. Wait, is it ok if i compare Bioware stories to Bioware stories? Actually you know what, i dont care, and neither does the rest of the paying public that Bioware needs to keep development rolling. You are just so far off base its ridiculous. Yes, dude, the story. Write a better story, dude, and you can publish it, rake in the royalties. And your criticism might then be credible. And on base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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