No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[ferroz]

Can we all at least agree to that? Regardless of what "need" or "greed" is defined as by you, run it by the group first? And then after that, should you still go by your definition, do not be surprised if you get "das boot?"

I'd say the onus is clearly on the people who expect to enforce some set of loot rules on other people.

[The_Archon]

Internet battle ftl.

 

And you're darned proud to have participated, I see.

[DarthKhaos]

The funny thing is if they want "that special look" they can either run it when they can solo it or get a higher lvl person to give them a hand. I don't care if the piece of ger is for me or someone else in the party. PLAYER gets first pick. If that person doesn't need then anyone else can roll need for any reason be it companion, the look of the gear, whatever.

 

I tend to wait to see how the person who can use the gear roll. If they roll need I don't if they don't I ask before rolling need. The thing is people don't have a problem once the person who can use NOW on their CHARACTER doesn't need it.

 

And as for me if the leader doesn't kick em I'm gone. Good luck finding a new healer or tank because that's what I tend to play once that class can do that role.

[ferroz]

The funny thing is if they want "that special look" they can either run it when they can solo it or get a higher lvl person to give them a hand.

No, you don't get to say your priorities are the correct ones and other people are wrong.

I don't care if the piece of ger is for me or someone else in the party. PLAYER gets first pick.

I agree, the players gets first pick (and only the players can pick, no AI is allowed to roll). He might pick it for the stats, or for it's looks.

 

If he wins, he decides where to equip it... either his own wrist slot, or one of his companion's wrist slots.

Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[VanorDM]

I'd say the onus is clearly on the people who expect to enforce some set of loot rules on other people.

 

I agree.

 

This is IMO the single biggest issue with loot in SWTOR right now.

 

You have a group of people who used to do it a given way, in a different game and expect everyone in this one to somehow both know these 'unwritten rules' and agree with them.

 

Both of which are completely unrealistic. There's a lot of people here who haven't played WoW and have never been exposed to what might be considered the 'unwritten rules of loot' there, which lets face it, were never actually agreed upon by everyone anyway.

 

Appeals to common courtesy and manners is a massive farce, because those things simply do not apply in these situations. Mostly because there is no RL equivalent for them, so you can not simply apply your RL sense of fairness here.

 

Second, this is a different game, and so the same rules may not work here. Yet we have people trying to force a round peg into a square hole, because in the other game the hole was square.

[Eldren]

The funny thing is if they want "that special look" they can either run it when they can solo it or get a higher lvl person to give them a hand. I don't care if the piece of ger is for me or someone else in the party. PLAYER gets first pick.

 

I agree completely. The player gets first pick. What they do with it (if they win it) is up to them, and is neither open to scrutiny from others, nor subject to their approval. The player contributed, which gave the player a chance to roll on the item, a roll they won. It's theirs to do with as they please. They aren't leasing it from the "community" in a fashion that lets others determine its use, it's in their inventory, it's 100% theirs.

[SorrowOVtheNight]

I hate when people do this, and some even have the gall to need items I require just for their companion....

 

IE: Bounty Hunter needing a vibroknife I could use (I'm operative) because his companion Mako needs it...

[Eldren]

I hate when people do this, and some even have the gall to need items I require just for their companion....

 

IE: Bounty Hunter needing a vibroknife I could use (I'm operative) because his companion Mako needs it...

 

You got the same roll he did. If you chose Greed after he chose Need, you've only yourself to blame, as you could have chosen a roll with a priority equal to his.

 

In the absence of that, you had the same roll he did, and he won it. It's none of your business what he's going to use it for. You had the same shot at it he did, and he just happened to win.

[ferroz]

I hate when people do this, and some even have the gall to need items I require just for their companion....

I on the other hand dislike it when people label their own wants as "needs" and think they're somehow more important than other people's wants. Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[Galbatorrix]

"And I can guarantee you that they would agree the people who roll on EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, also could have that sense of entitlement."

 

You get what? 6 companions in this game? More than likely, at some point in your 40s, at least one of your companions will be able to use practically everything that drops. Are these people greedy? Between aesthetic looting and companion looting, you might as well get rid of the greed button, because everyone can technically use everything in some way or another.

[Galbatorrix]

** and is neither open to scrutiny from others, nor subject to their approval. **

 

Sure it is. If you don't want to be scrutinized for something that most players see as bad form, ask first. If you don't getting bashed is your own fault.

[ferroz]

You get what? 6 companions in this game? More than likely, at some point in your 40s, at least one of your companions will be able to use practically everything that drops.

Depends on class. Troopers just get more troopers (+ a droid) if i recall correctly.

 

Are these people greedy?

There's nothing inherently greedy about people who have all of their companions.

 

Between aesthetic looting and companion looting, you might as well get rid of the greed button, because everyone can technically use everything in some way or another.

You mean, go with "Roll/Pass" like some have been saying?

[ispanolfw]

"And I can guarantee you that they would agree the people who roll on EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, also could have that sense of entitlement."

 

You get what? 6 companions in this game? More than likely, at some point in your 40s, at least one of your companions will be able to use practically everything that drops. Are these people greedy? Between aesthetic looting and companion looting, you might as well get rid of the greed button, because everyone can technically use everything in some way or another.

 

First, I used the word "could". I also edited the post shortly after with some additional information. Basically anyone who feels they or someone else should get it over another party member has a sense of entitlement or that the other person has entitlement. That is all opinion. The game doesn't define that whatsoever, the game gives everyone in the group the same entitlement to roll on it. But not entitlement to the actual item unless you win. Anything beyond that is choice and opinion. And many people like to push THEIR opinion as the right one.

[Eldren]

"And I can guarantee you that they would agree the people who roll on EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING, also could have that sense of entitlement."

 

You get what? 6 companions in this game? More than likely, at some point in your 40s, at least one of your companions will be able to use practically everything that drops. Are these people greedy? Between aesthetic looting and companion looting, you might as well get rid of the greed button, because everyone can technically use everything in some way or another.

 

Exactly. Which is why we should move to a Roll/Pass system to avoid the loot drama.

[Creed_Buhallin]

You get what? 6 companions in this game? More than likely, at some point in your 40s, at least one of your companions will be able to use practically everything that drops. Are these people greedy? Between aesthetic looting and companion looting, you might as well get rid of the greed button, because everyone can technically use everything in some way or another.

Rule of Internet Debates, #41: Any time someone includes "technically" in their argument, it's probably a strawman.

 

Yes, someone could TECHNICALLY claim need on anything by assuming SOME companion could use it. But the reality is most people don't make use of all their companions - I expect two is probably the top variety for most, and three is an extreme limit. If someone wants to justify rolling on every single thing by saying some companion can use it, I wouldn't welcome them.

 

But that doesn't mean that companions should be off limits for loot.

 

Edit: And just to be clear, I certainly wouldn't kick someone from a group for it. I might look at them a bit skeptically and think they were justifying it, and take that into account. But if someone really did use all 6 of their companions at various times, I think they're well within rights to roll need.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Creed_Buhallin

[Eldren]

** and is neither open to scrutiny from others, nor subject to their approval. **

 

Sure it is. If you don't want to be scrutinized for something that most players see as bad form, ask first. If you don't getting bashed is your own fault.

 

The problem lies not with scrutiny, but with some players thinking their scrutiny should carry objective, undeniable authority over another player. They're upset because someone got what they wanted. They're upset because they lost, they can't accept losing, so they rationalize it by saying "something wrong happened."

 

Cognitive dissonance. The players all contributed, the players all get an equal chance to get a given piece of loot. If they choose a lower priority on a roll, or pass entirely, that doesn't obligate someone else to do the same.

[ferroz]

** and is neither open to scrutiny from others, nor subject to their approval. **

 

Sure it is. If you don't want to be scrutinized for something arbitrary that I'm not going to tell you, ask first. If you like don't getting bashed, then too bad, even though it is my fault since I didn't tell you my arbitrary rules in advanced.

fixed Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[warpedlogic]

I am so sad that this thread actually had to be created and fortunately I've not ran into this problem. To the person who said:

 

Appeals to common courtesy and manners is a massive farce, because those things simply do not apply in these situations. Mostly because there is no RL equivalent for them, so you can not simply apply your RL sense of fairness here.

 

I have to argue that there is an RL equivalent and that is knowing that you're not ruining the group dynamic. Someone else ran the FP/Heroic with you hoping to get the very loot that was dropped. If you don't need it, someone else in the group does. This is common courtesy. If you don't care about other people's feelings, I'd ask you to question why you're even playing an MMO and to check your moral compass.

 

And to the person who said, more or less, that this is a WoW view to loot and that someone who's never played WoW doesn't know these unwritten rules: I've never played WoW and thus don't know what these loot rules are. Here's mine which I base on common courtesy:

 

• If I don't need it, then I pass
  
• If my companion could use it, greed
  
• If I need it, then I need
  
• If it's for my class, but stats are lower than what I have on, then I greed
  

 

I guess there are just more selfish people out there than I care to think about. But when playing with other people who are taking the time to play with you in a group activity, don't make them suffer just because you want something that isn't suited for your class.

 

One more point I'd like to make: You're companion isn't running FP's with the group, why the heck do they need that drop when it will not benefit the entire group at that point in time?? Think about it.

[DarthKhaos]

I agree completely. The player gets first pick. What they do with it (if they win it) is up to them, and is neither open to scrutiny from others, nor subject to their approval. The player contributed, which gave the player a chance to roll on the item, a roll they won. It's theirs to do with as they please. They aren't leasing it from the "community" in a fashion that lets others determine its use, it's in their inventory, it's 100% theirs.

Misquote much? I can see you are one of those who will do whatever you want because you believe it is your god given right. That's fine and it is mine to leave and let you find a new Tank or Healer. Enjoy.

[Galbatorrix]

Rule of Internet Debates, #41: Any time someone includes "technically" in their argument, it's probably a strawman.

 

Yes, someone could TECHNICALLY claim need on anything by assuming SOME companion could use it. But the reality is most people don't make use of all their companions - I expect two is probably the top variety for most, and three is an extreme limit. If someone wants to justify rolling on every single thing by saying some companion can use it, I wouldn't welcome them.

 

But that doesn't mean that companions should be off limits for loot.

 

Edit: And just to be clear, I certainly wouldn't kick someone from a group for it. I might look at them a bit skeptically and think they were justifying it, and take that into account. But if someone really did use all 6 of their companions at various times, I think they're well within rights to roll need.

 

 

My argument is strawman because I'm playing off your logic of needing for companions..... What does that say about your argument?

 

 

 

**The game doesn't define that whatsoever, the game gives everyone in the group the same entitlement to roll on it. **

 

Which is why Bioware needs to fix loot ASAP.

[sjmc]

If you are going to sell it, press Greed. If you are going to keep it, press Need.

 

If your need is relatively minimal, it is nice to wait to see if anyone also presses Need (and letting them have it). It is up to you what "minimal need" is.

 

If you press Need, it is generally accepted that the item should not be available later on the GTN.

Edited January 27, 2012 by sjmc

[Eldren]

Misquote much? I can see you are one of those who will do whatever you want because you believe it is your god given right. That's fine and it is mine to leave and let you find a new Tank or Healer. Enjoy.

 

That's, of course, your right. It's what any person should do: if they wind up in a group whose dynamic or individuals they don't like, they should leave. That's what they have authority to do, and ability to affect. You'll be shortly replaced, of course, but that isn't a concern for you, so it shouldn't be for anyone else.

 

The problem in all this lies in people attempting to control the actions of others. Do what you can control: put people on ignore if you like, leave the group if you like, those are all things you can do. No one can control the actions of another player, however, which is probably the root cause of most of the ire in threads like this.

[ispanolfw]

I am so sad that this thread actually had to be created and fortunately I've not ran into this problem. To the person who said:

 

 

 

I have to argue that there is an RL equivalent and that is knowing that you're not ruining the group dynamic. Someone else ran the FP/Heroic with you hoping to get the very loot that was dropped. If you don't need it, someone else in the group does. This is common courtesy. If you don't care about other people's feelings, I'd ask you to question why you're even playing an MMO and to check your moral compass.

 

And to the person who said, more or less, that this is a WoW view to loot and that someone who's never played WoW doesn't know these unwritten rules: I've never played WoW and thus don't know what these loot rules are. Here's mine which I base on common courtesy:

 

• If I don't need it, then I pass
  
• If my companion could use it, greed
  
• If I need it, then I need
  
• If it's for my class, but stats are lower than what I have on, then I greed
  

 

I guess there are just more selfish people out there than I care to think about. But when playing with other people who are taking the time to play with you in a group activity, don't make them suffer just because you want something that isn't suited for your class.

 

One more point I'd like to make: You're companion isn't running FP's with the group, why the heck do they need that drop when it will not benefit the entire group at that point in time?? Think about it.

 

Feeling one person deserves it more than another for any reason, when the game states all participants have an equal chance to roll on it is most certainly selfish. Beyond the rules set in game, everything is opinion, and the biggest part of the argument so far is trying to force others into following yours. Majority or not.

[Eldren]

If you are going to sell it, press Greed. If you are going to keep it, press Need.

 

If your need is relatively minimal, it is nice to wait to see if anyone also presses Need (and letting them have it). It is up to you what "minimal need" is.

 

If you want to roll Need on it, do so. You don't require anyone else's permission.

 

If you want to roll Greed on it, do so. You don't require anyone else's approval.

[havok_bloodcraft]

I have always went with the understanding that you need for things that are upgrade statistically for you and greed on things for alts companions appearance or whatever other reasons are around and you pass if you don't want it at all even to sell. Does everyone see how category one is to the effect of this thing makes me immediately better at what I am already doing. and category 2 is I want thing. and as for op and agent jacket I would drop group on spot and flame this individual at the start of every day as a ninja looter on fleet and whatever world I was on so everyone knew this person did this kind of stuff and they never got a group again.