No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Mentoza]

I am so happy i dont pug so many ninjas in the game needing for companion is plain stupid i dont even do it if none wants it, i just greed.

 

The gear that is droping from FPs is for the players not their companions.

If you wanna gear up your comp run the fp alone and dont expect others to run the fp for your silly comp.

 

Personally i wish there were no companions in the game.

 

So many loot whores i feel sorry for you stay with your pathetic companions if you treat others like that you are all sad individuals.

 

Thats my opinion of course....

 

I wish i never saw this threat i feel sad and anger with the ninja community.

And about "Bw hasnt told us what is need for etc" its all a pathetic excuse really.

 

Grow up and dont think only about yourselfs.

 

Im sorry if anyone felt offended but couldnt hold that inside me...

[ferroz]

"I like how it looks" is not a stat that people should be denying their groupmates progression over.

Yes it is. It's the most important stat to some people

 

just because you value cunning or willpower or aim, or whatever over looks does not make it the right or the only way to play the game. Insisting that you are doing it right and the people who play for different reasons than you do re doing it wrong is extremely self centered.

 

Seriously, how can you not see how hypocritical you're being?

[Backbones]

Seriously, how can you not see how hypocritical you're being?

 

You're the guy who just said that thinking that you should be able to roll need on everything that drops isn't an entitlement issue.

 

It's not hypocritical. Appearance isn't a stat. Your priorities do not mesh with progression priorities. Ergo, it's really on you to put it out in advance that you are going to roll need cross-class beforehand or, hopefully, learn to deal with getting kicked from groups.

[ferroz]

Contrarily, your opinion comes across not as "Everyone is equally deserving" because that's moronic and contrary to the way progress works; your opinion is "I am entitled to all of the loot" and it's ... contrary to the way progress works.

I'm not sure how you can move to my claim that everyone is equally deserving of all loot to that... Are you just not reading?

 

you're saying, "I need the opportunity to take everything from this FP and leave everyone behind."

False. Please quote where I've said that.

 

I'm saying everyone is equally deserving of all of the loot; no one is more entitled to it than anyone else; insisting that you are entitled to it over someone else is extremely self centered.

 

The other stance is "Everyone should just take what they want, that way everyone can come out ahead."

fixed,

[sjmc]

So, on one hand, it's ok to roll need on an orange item even if it's NOT an upgrade, yet you also say that you should only roll on gear if it's an upgrade.......?

If we must rank "need" between stat upgrades and appearance, then appearance could be considered to be more important for orange gear. I don't think it is worth arguing about whether a particular piece is actually an appearance upgrade.

 

EDIT: but if the item isn't orange and my companion already has better gear, then I shouldn't be rolling need. I also shouldn't roll need on non-orange gear for my own character if I have better gear already.

 

If you roll need on orange items for appearance, you have NO right getting upset about people rolling need on companions at all. Companions will at least help that person progress. Needing for appearance does not help you're progression at all.

I agree. Gear for my companion is often a larger "upgrade" than gear for myself since I rely on her to tank for me.

 

Different people "need" different things.

Edited January 27, 2012 by sjmc

[Backbones]

I'm not sure how you can move to my claim that everyone is equally deserving of all loot to that... Are you just not reading?

 

"I like how everything looks, it's more important than anything else to me!" means I can roll on every single thing that drops, according to you.

 

I'm saying everyone is equally deserving of all of the loot; no one is more entitled to it than anyone else; insisting that you are entitled to it over someone else is extremely self centered.

 

Are you saying that I am equally deserving of all loot, but that I shouldn't roll need on all of it? I deserve it but shouldn't try to get it?

 

Who's being hypocritical?

Edited January 27, 2012 by Backbones

[Black_Rabbit]

I don't agree.

 

Personally, I prefer

Roll | Pass

 

and if you want to have a more complicated loot system, it's clearly up to the players to deal with it.

 

 

 

They did that when Lord of the Rings online came out, it was awful, way more fights than you see people here, luckily they changes it shortly after, roll/pass makes no sense:

 

How are you meant to know when to pass and when to roll?

You need it? so you go "roll" - ok, that is simple

 

You do not need it, What do you do? - If you roll, someone else might NEED that item, and because of your selfishness they have to miss out, and if you pass, it might be that everybody does the same so the item remains on the floor, and that is just as stupid since at least you can profit from it by selling it to other players.

 

As for companion rolls I do not believe we need those either, you should not roll for companions simply because every class gets a companion that can wear all the equipment in game by the time you reach 50, so by this logic you should "need" on everything because at least 1 of your companions will use it.

 

And when it comes down to party members, it is true you should not roll need for an item that does not belong to your class, because if it gives lots of strength while you only need Willpower, then it's a pure waste, however, I have done that a few times because the item would boost every other single attribute by +20, except my main one, so although not 100% efficient, is still 10 times better than what I was wearing, so a "need" it is fair.

 

Just opinions.

[ferroz]

You're the guy who just said that thinking that you should be able to roll need on everything that drops isn't an entitlement issue.

Actually, I'm the one saying that noone is entitled to the gear over anyone else and that if you think you're entitled to that piece of gear (for, say, it's stats) , then you're the one who's got the entitlement issue, not the people who are saying that you're not entitled to that gear.

 

It's not hypocritical.

Yes, it is. You're complaining about people being self centered and greedy while you yourself are showing being even more self centered and greedy. That's being extremely hypocritical.

 

Appearance isn't a stat.

so? It's more important than any stat to some.

 

Your priorities do not mesh with progression priorities.

Progression priorities aren't the correct priorities. They're just your priorities. It's not reasonable to assume that they are everyone's priorities, or to hold people to your priorities.

 

Ergo, it's really on you to put it out in advance that you have a specific set of priorities and expect people to abide by your arbitrary loot rules that disagree with the design of the game.

[Irusan]

84 pages of arguing a point of common courtesy/decency. The Entitled Generation sucks.

[ferroz]

How are you meant to know when to pass and when to roll?

Roll if you want it, pass if you don't, and don't feel entitled to the gear unless you've talked out the loot rolls in advance and come to an agreement. Seems easy enough to me.

 

Just opinions.

I agree, though I think you should word them as such; saying things like "It's true that X" doesn't make it sound like you're posting opinions.

[ferroz]

Needing for appearance does not help you're progression at all.

Certainly does. It helps you progress into looking like you want to look.

 

your definition of progression being bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers is far from the only valid definition of progress.

 

Nor is progress the end all be all of MMORPGs.

[Backbones]

Yes, it is. You're complaining about people being self centered and greedy while you yourself are showing being even more self centered and greedy. That's being extremely hypocritical.

I don't think I've called anyone self-centered or greedy, in fact.

 

So, am I correct, then, that your opinion is that everyone in every group should click 'need' on every piece of loot that drops, as they are entitled and deserving of it, and any reason to click 'greed' or 'pass' is arbitrary and '[disagrees] with the design of the game'?

[ferroz]

84 pages of arguing a point of common courtesy/decency. The Entitled Generation sucks.

The people arguing this are masking their own sense of entitlement by calling it common courtesy/decency and demonizing the people who don't think that you're some how special and entitled to gear... Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[SkateOnTrees]

is this the actual definition of irony yet?

 

I've been waiting for soo soo long

[Sufran]

I agree, though I think you should word them as such; saying things like "It's true that X" doesn't make it sound like you're posting opinions.

In the words of the late Christopher Hitchens: “Well guess who’s saying it. What a fatuous remark.”

 

I’ve never understood the need for caveats as even if somebody asserts something as a truth then it is still their opinion that it’s a truth. Arguably, it’s still an opinion even with considerable citation as it is simply an opinion validated by fact. If somebody doesn't think it 'sounds' like an opinion then that person has curious understanding of discourse.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Sufran

[sjmc]

everyone in every group should click 'need' on every piece of loot that drops, as they are entitled and deserving of it, and any reason to click 'greed' or 'pass' is arbitrary and '[disagrees] with the design of the game'?

Accepted practice is that you should not press need if you don't want the item and are just going to vendor/sell it.

 

You should only press need on items that you want. Pressing need does not preclude other people from pressing need if they want it.

Edited January 27, 2012 by sjmc

[Backbones]

Accepted practice is that you should not press need if you don't want the item and are just going to vendor/sell it.

 

You should only press need on items that you want.

 

But the person I am quoting says that I am entitled to and deserving of that item just as much as anyone else in the party. If I am entitled to and deserving of the item, why should I not click 'need' every time? (Besides the knowledge that I'll get kicked out of the group for being an idiot, I mean.)

[Black_Rabbit]

Roll if you want it, pass if you don't, and don't feel entitled to the gear unless you've talked out the loot rolls in advance and come to an agreement. Seems easy enough to me.

 

By that logic people will always, and only go for "roll", at least I would, defeating the purpose of who really needs that item (People do not want to miss out if everybody can have a shot at it, it is human nature). This has caused more animosity in the past than good.

 

I agree, though I think you should word them as such; saying things like "It's true that X" doesn't make it sound like you're posting opinions.

 

Do not nitpick at every word I say, English is not my first language, expressions varies depending on the culture you are from, if I wrote that at the end is because I meant it, and not as a ticket to get away with anything I previously said.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Black_Rabbit

[Calsetes]

84 pages of arguing a point of common courtesy/decency. The Entitled Generation sucks.

 

Yeah, sadly common courtesy isn't so common nowadays, much like common sense.

[sjmc]

But the person I am quoting says that I am entitled to and deserving of that item just as much as anyone else in the party. If I am entitled to and deserving of the item, why should I not click 'need' every time? (Besides the knowledge that I'll get kicked out of the group for being an idiot, I mean.)

That's why I don't really agree with accepted practice. I would prefer to get rid of the need button entirely and let the loot get distributed randomly. You could use the loot you get, trade it with someone else for what they got or sell it on the GTN so you can buy what you need.

 

Need-before-greed is biased against people that don't regularly upgrade their characters. If I buy a new set of gear on the GTN before coming to the group, why should that mean that people that didn't do that should get priority on loot (and therefore have more money in the bank)?

 

Bind-on-pickup is a problem -- so the need button could be kept for those items.

 

I don't play the game to have arguments about loot. That's what forums are for.

Edited January 27, 2012 by sjmc

[chton]

84 pages of arguing a point of common courtesy/decency. The Entitled Generation sucks.

 

I find it funny the people who are telling people how they can roll don't see themselves as entitled, I assume they have no mirrors at home. BTW been doing this so far and never been refused from a group, I assume the dreaded "black lists" aren't working as well as advertised. Fear monger all you want, not enough people bother getting all drama queen over levelling loot. In fact I like to tell guildies who the drama queens are and not invite them, the irony is hilarious.

[Galbatorrix]

Entitlement is thinking everything that drops is some how yours regardless of your team mates needs. People who expect to win their classes loot drops are 99.9% of the time also people who will pass on YOUR classes loot drops. These people are the one's being fair. Not the ones that think everything is their's because Bioware gave everyone a need button. I mean, just because I have a stereo doesn't mean I have the right to blast it at 3AM and disturb my neighbors. They'd likely call the police and rightfully so. People are expected to be considerate of others in life and with MMOs beign social games, the same rules should apply.

[ferroz]

By that logic people will always, and only go for "roll", at least I would, defeating the purpose of who really needs that item (People do not want to miss out if everybody can have a shot at it, it is human nature). This has caused more animosity in the past than good.

No, people will roll on the stuff that they want, and pass on the rest.

 

totally greedy people will roll on everything; they expect everyone to be like themselves and expect everyone to to do the same.

 

totally selfless people will pass on everything; they have no expectations on what other people do.

 

most people will be somewhere in the middle, rolling on stuff they really want and passing on stuff they don't really want. Some will roll more than pass, some will pass more than roll. The key is to not feel entitled to the gear before you've actually won it.

 

And groups that want specific loot rules can still talk about it and do them with roll/pass.

 

Do not nitpick at every word I say, English is not my first language, expressions varies depending on the culture you are from, if I wrote that at the end is because I meant it, and not as a ticket to get away with anything I previously said.

I don't mean any offense; I'm just pointing out that your wording is a bit on the strong side, specifically that when you call something out as a fact you're basically saying that you're not stating an opinion. Edited January 27, 2012 by ferroz

[Black_Rabbit]

Entitlement is thinking everything that drops is some how yours regardless of your team mates needs. People who expect to win their classes loot drops are 99.9% of the time also people who will pass on YOUR classes loot drops. These people are the one's being fair. Not the ones that think everything is their's because Bioware gave everyone a need button. I mean, just because I have a stereo doesn't mean I have the right to blast it at 3AM and disturb my neighbors. They'd likely call the police and rightfully so. People are expected to be considerate of others in life and with MMOs beign social games, the same rules should apply.

 

Huge plot hole there:

 

What if you go for pass because it is a class item that will work on a party member, but this person actually do not really need it, because he is already wearing something better?

 

Why is he entitled to sponge on top of an item he is going to sell and I have to pass on it? We should both have the same chances at getting it, after all we share loot money equally, and an item that is going to be sold is only loot money.

 

No, people will roll on the stuff that they want, and pass on the rest.

 

totally greedy people will roll on everything; they expect everyone to be like themselves and expect everyone to to do the same.

 

 

You see, I am not greedy, I like to share, but with this system I am compelled to roll always, because I am afraid of missing out, the need button makes sure I am not stealing from someone else.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Black_Rabbit

[DarthKhaos]

Only if it is an upgrade. You shouldn't roll need on something that are not going to use. If you never bring a companion out to fight, it doesn't really need upgrades.

How would you know? That's the point.

 

I find the initial topic to be so idiotic. I'm going to roll need on a cosmetic look. Sure the stats I can't use and that guy really can use the upgrade. Screw him I want this green pantz.