No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Setanian]

It's ok guys, I ninja looted enough from other players that my companion can tank. Just let me pull him out..

 

What I read from this is you have absolutely no argument so you are forced to resort to sarcasm. That's fine we can play along with you.

[Galbatorrix]

Work with me here... you just disagreed with me because you agreed with me.

 

Originally Posted by Eldren

It's a Marauder's vest if it says "Requires Sith Warrior" on it. Otherwise, it's fair game.

 

In short, just what I said... how does this harm my reading comprehension, exactly?

 

 

Because you can't grasp the concept that the "Marauder's Vest" should go to the Marauder in the group? The RNG gods was with him that run. He got lucky and the item that was created with his class in mind dropped. Instead of being a spoilsport and trying to steal the loot created for his class, why not be decent and pass on it? Maybe the item intended for your class will drop next run. You shouldn't let your bad luck grief others that are putting in just as much time as you.

[Pathlight-]

Selfish people exist IRL and in online games. The OP posting on this forum will not change that. Either BW solves this by making "need" class specific or players will have to deal with the fact that, like IRL, rational behavior does not always prevail and jerks sometimes win.

[Jigsaw-Complex]

I'm sorry, but this thread make me so glad I run with a guild. Yes, the game just came out, but if you people are saying a commando should be able to role need on a custom jedi tank robe just cause, then you are just a bunch of typical internet children. The kind of people who would sooner let somebody in a restaurant serve them the wrong meal then risk a confrontation asking for what you wanted. The internet makes so many people feel like they're bullet proof and beyond morals and etiquette.

 

But you know what, it's not something to get excited over, because any spoil little child that acts like this will eventually get black listed and then where will they be? In a thread here complaining to BW that there is no LFG so he can keep looting.

[Nightfox_]

What I read from this is you have absolutely no argument so you are forced to resort to sarcasm. That's fine we can play along with you.

 

More like.. it gets boring with your circular argument of "Unless Bioware forces me to be unable to roll on everyone else's class gear, I refuse to play in a mutually agreeable social setting."

[Setanian]

Ahhhhh, did the companion contribute in the quest? Was he part of the group? If that is the case then sure, but if they are absent why should u loot something for that companion when the person actually doing something doesn't get the loot? Sounds backwards to me, if thats how u want it, gl bringing your healer/tank companion, because bet you no one will want to lose loot to a companion.....

 

The only question of concern is did *I* contribute? If I did, I have as much entitlement to roll how *I* wish to, regardless of what I do with it if I win, or whom I give it to. All that is none of your concern. You are trying to make it your concern because you believe that because you want the item, I should pass and let you win it.

[Eldren]

Because you can't grasp the concept that the "Marauder's Vest" should go to the Marauder in the group? The RNG gods was with him that run. He got lucky and the item that was created with his class in mind dropped. Instead of being a spoilsport and trying to steal the loot created for his class, why not be decent and pass on it? Maybe the item intended for your class will drop next run. You shouldn't let your bad luck grief others that are putting in just as much time as you.

 

My signature lays out my perspective on loot quite well. Of course we're talking about PUGs here, because there's no loot drama in guild runs. In a PUG, I'm not there for the primary purpose of gearing others up, though I'm always happy if they win a roll on something, even if they won over me.

 

But I'm not going to give up staking a claim on something I want just because someone else wants it too. When more than one person wants something, all can roll on an equal priority level if they choose, and let the dice decide who wins. It's 100% fair and impartial.

[Nightfox_]

You did contribute. By all means roll on stats beneficial to you. That isn't the argument. The argument is your AI pet that did not contribute. By all means, let him tank the FP and roll on tank loot for him. Otherwise, it's just ninja.

[RazielHex]

Ergo, this needs to be fixed.

 

Not really. It's orange gear. Stats are meaningless.

 

Medium armor for Marauders/Agents

Heavy Armor for Warriors/Bounty Hunters

Light Armor for INquisitors

 

If it falls within those parameters, and is orange, you can take it and remod it.

Edited January 26, 2012 by RazielHex

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

No, Bioware allowed you all to be grown ups and be respectful, clearly that was a mistake with some people.

 

Clearly, and both sides of this arguement will continue to maintain that it is the otherside.

 

As stated many times before, I see no problem with rolling need for mods or companions and leaving it up to the dice.

 

I would never complain or QQ if someone beat me on a roll and I certainly do not expect to have someone QQing or kicking over it if I decided I needed an item.

 

Whilst I have yet to personally come across this situation; my primary companion and I can both wear the same gear, so I mostly deal in hand-me-downs, if someone QQ'ed me over an item we bothed "needed" on, but they lost the role, then they would not have to addignore me, because I would have already addignored them...

 

And if you're PUGging for a group, demanding that you get first pick on all loots, then don't expect me to group with you either. The Loot Dice are there for a reason, either deal with it or find someone else.

[Setanian]

More like.. it gets boring with your circular argument of "Unless Bioware forces me to be unable to roll on everyone else's class gear, I refuse to play in a mutually agreeable social setting."

 

The 'mutual' is just that.. A mutual agreement between a number of people. It is not a play base-wide mutual agreement. You think it is, but it is not.

 

The gear is not everyone else class gear, unless it specifically says it is. But this seems to be beyond your comprehension. The loot is up for traps by all participants. What makes you think you have any entitlement at all other than to roll and see if you win.

 

No amount of you attempting to coerce my roll choice is going to suddenly make it a player-wide mutual agreement.

 

I know you don't like it, but hey, that's the game. You get a roll, you choose how you roll, not everyone else too.

[Eldren]

Clearly, and both sides of this arguement will continue to maintain that it is the otherside.

 

As stated many times before, I see no problem with rolling need for mods or companions and leaving it up to the dice.

 

I would never complain or QQ if someone beat me on a roll and I certainly do not expect to have someone QQing or kicking over it if I decided I needed an item.

 

Whilst I have yet to personally come across this situation; my primary companion and I can both wear the same gear, so I mostly deal in hand-me-downs, if someone QQ'ed me over an item we bothed "needed" on, but they lost the role, then they would not have to addignore me, because I would have already addignored them...

 

And if you're PUGging for a group, demanding that you get first pick on all loots, then don't expect me to group with you either. The Loot Dice are there for a reason, either deal with it or find someone else.

 

Brilliantly stated, particularly the last paragraph.

[Setanian]

You did contribute. By all means roll on stats beneficial to you. That isn't the argument. The argument is your AI pet that did not contribute. By all means, let him tank the FP and roll on tank loot for him. Otherwise, it's just ninja.

 

Oh please.. Ninja is taking something you were not entitled to take.

 

Please understand, what you do with your winnings is nothing to do with me, likewise, what I do with mine is nothing to do with you.

 

I know you'll be all p*ssed because you lost and then I give it to a companion, but the reality is this. You got a roll, you lost your roll. The story ended right there.

[Galbatorrix]

Not really. It's orange gear. Stats are meaningless.

 

Medium armor for Marauders/Agents

Heavy Armor for Warriors/Bounty Hunters

Light Armor for INquisitors

 

If it falls within those parameters, and is orange, you can take it and remod it.

 

My Commando can use light, medium and heavy armor. So can a Jedi Guardian. I mean, if stats don't matter, why shouldn't they be rolling need on everything possible?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[coffeerox]

I will just say, deal with it. Every item that drops one way or another is usable regardless of class, thanks to the companion system. If I go on a run, and an item drops that I want, I'm entitled to roll on it as are anyone else. I played my part as did everyone else so who is to dictate that I am not entitled to the rewards?

 

Unlike most people, I actually gear up my companions and keep them competent (my Khem has actually tanked FPs and as duo player, duo companions no less) so an upgrade for them is very much an upgrade for myself as well.

 

If people don't like it then too bad. Ever since beta, the community has been nothing but a-hats to me, and more so in the game. It got even worse when people were trying to use the excuse that we were Sith as the reason for their behavior. I've had it with these people. I'm only in it for myself. Either group up to do the content with me or not.

[RazielHex]

My Commando can use light, medium and heavy armor. So can a Jedi Guardian. I mean, if stats don't matter, why shouldn't they be rolling need on everything possible?

 

What did you not understand about "if it falls within those parameters"?

 

Was it the word "parameter"?

[Murdah]

/bump Edited January 26, 2012 by Murdah

[Galbatorrix]

"Nothing dropped for MY CLASS, so I'm going to steal YOUR CLASS'S loot!"

 

 

I love how those people are trying to say we are the one's with entitlement issues... lol. RNG wasn't with you and nothing dropped for your class. Deal with it. Keep ninjaing loot from other classes and expect a big ol berating in the general chat and eventual "Hey guys, don't group with this guy, he needs on EVERYTHING!" every time you try to form a PUG. Hey, don't say we didn't warn you.

 

 

All this thread has taught me is I really need to start over stating the obvious each run before hand because some people just can't seem to be decent to other players.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Galbatorrix]

What did you not understand about "if it falls within those parameters"?

 

Was it the word "parameter"?

 

 

Who care's about parameters? If I can put it on, it's mine. Who care's about stats? Who are you to tell me my Guardian can't wear light armor?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[Murdah]

I blame these covetous cretins on those akin to Ayn Rand and Milton Freidman; they made being a duplicitous dunce somewhat acceptable again.

 

 

If that is what you got from reading Ayn Rand or Milton Friedman (you could at least spell his name correctly) I feel sorry for you and that you cannot grasp a very simple concept.

 

Ayn Rand and Good Ol Milt would agree that it would not be right to loot someone else's upgrade.... Actually first of all they would probably consider playing this game an incredibly unproductive way to waste your time.

 

They would understand the true motivation behind not stealing someones upgrade. Face it the reason that you don't steal someone else's upgrade is completely selfish. It is so that you will not have it done yourself when you see an upgrade come your way. Also you know that it will ruin your reputation if you go around stealing other peoples upgrades.

 

Everyone is selfish you just need to come to terms with that. If it wasn't for the selfish productive people out there people like you wouldn't be able to receive your government handout and purchase a computer to play this game and spit out complete nonsense to all of us.

 

Altruism is evil and leads to a totally dependent society of people who cannot care for themselves. If you think about it almost every productive thing that you do everyday is done out of being selfish.

[Setanian]

"Nothing dropped for MY CLASS, so I'm going to steal YOUR CLASS'S loot!"

 

 

I love how those people are trying to say we are the one's with entitlement issues... lol. RNG wasn't with you and nothing dropped for your class. Deal with it. Keep ninjaing loot from other classes and expect a big ol berating in the general chat and eventual "Hey guys, don't group with this guy, he needs on EVERYTHING!" every time you try to form a PUG. Hey, don't say we didn't warn you.

 

 

All this thread has taught me is I really need to start over stating the obvious each run before hand because some people just can't seem to be decent to other players.

 

Decency goes both ways.. You get roll, I get a roll. If I win, I win, if you win, you win. Decency does not mention anything about that I give up my roll because you feel you are more entitled to something.

 

If the item states it's specifically for your class, fine, I'll pass it to you. Other than that, I'll roll which ever suits me best. I expect nothing less from you.

 

The problem is; You expect more from me.

[Eldren]

If that is what you got from reading Ayn Rand or Milton Friedman (you could at least spell his name correctly) I feel sorry for you and that you cannot grasp a very simple concept.

 

Ayn Rand and Good Ol Milt would agree that it would not be right to loot someone else's upgrade.... Actually first of all they would probably consider playing this game an incredibly unproductive way to waste your time.

 

They would understand the true motivation behind not stealing someones upgrade. Face it the reason that you don't steal someone else's upgrade is completely selfish. It is so that you will not have it done yourself when you see an upgrade come your way. Also you know that it will ruin your reputation if you go around stealing other peoples upgrades.

 

Everyone is selfish you just need to come to terms with that. If it wasn't for the selfish productive people out there people like you wouldn't be able to receive your government handout and purchase a computer to play this game and spit out complete nonsense to all of us.

 

Altruism is evil and leads to a totally dependent society of people who cannot care for themselves. If you think about it almost every productive thing that you do everyday is done out of being selfish.

 

Ayn Rand and Good Ol Milt would agree that it would not be right to loot someone else's upgrade.... Actually first of all they would probably consider playing this game an incredibly unproductive way to waste your time.

 

They would understand the true motivation behind not stealing someones upgrade. Face it the reason that you don't steal someone else's upgrade is completely selfish. It is so that you will not have it done yourself when you see an upgrade come your way. Also you know that it will ruin your reputation if you go around stealing other peoples upgrades.

 

Everyone is selfish you just need to come to terms with that. If it wasn't for the selfish productive people out there people like you wouldn't be able to receive your government handout and purchase a computer to play this game and spit out complete nonsense to all of us.

 

Altruism is evil and leads to a totally dependent society of people who cannot care for themselves. If you think about it almost every productive thing that you do everyday is done out of being selfish.

 

At least by the time she shifted from fiction into philosophy, Ayn Rand via Objectivism would have found the whole notion of "Need Before Greed" to be deplorable. She'd have found any system that demanded cooperation to generate reward, then reward to only one person in the cooperative, to be offensive. She would have said "Each person contributed, each person should be rewarded/paid." In short, she'd have favored the "Loot bag for every player" system.

 

Loot is not owned until someone wins a roll and has the piece in their inventory. Prior to that, it isn't "collectively owned", it isn't owned at all: ownership is in the process of being determined when the item is generated upon a boss' death.

 

Since each person participated in downing the boss, each person has an equal right to the item. Different priorities of rolls have muddied the system's intended purity, and a system people were used to using in a game without upgradeable companions has proven to be woefully inadequate, and thus at the source of much more contention, in a game that now has upgradeable companions.

 

If everyone chooses the same priority of roll, no one can complain if they lose the roll (or at least no one can have a basis for complaint). Because of companions and upgrades within items that otherwise might not be useful to a character (mods in orange items, at least one of which is typically useful to anyone in the group), a tiered priority system like NBG doesn't make much sense in this particular game, and something else would be a lot more efficient and at least remove part of the ongoing contention over this issue until the forums move on to some other issue du jour to gripe about.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Eldren

[PjPablo]

Sounds like the mentality is such that everyone might as well just Need everything then.

[Grecanis]

As stated many times before, I see no problem with rolling need for mods or companions and leaving it up to the dice.

 

(Sorry C_22 ..I'm not picking on you. Your quote is just representitive of many here.)

 

I would argue that if no-one is going to respect the Need/Greed system then having it is unnecessary. They should just boil the choices down to roll or pass.

 

If your going to break each piece down to it's parts in deciding if you need it or not then everyone on just about every roll would have a valid claim to a need roll.

 

My vote is on rolling on the whole item. Cunning pieces go to cunning users ..etc.

[stem]

Because they are just as much a part of the community as you are, and because you're not anti-social.

 

Honestly….. I’ve been on both sides of this argument.

 

If BioWare wants to restrict loot rolling, they should, otherwise, players have the right to roll on anything that can benefit them in any way.

 

Is that the civil thing to do?..... not really, but that’s what we have the /ignore function for.

 

Realistically…… 90% (randomly high percentage) of the time you’re going to be grouped with people who’ll let the class gear go to that class.

 

If you take exception to that 10% that will roll on it just to break it, chose to define the community you want in game by setting ignore on those you don’t.