No, You May Not Roll on Items for Another Class and Strip Out the Mods

[Magnijung]

I actually play alone most of the time, and I've played MMOs for a long time now. It's not that I don't want to play with other people, it's just that given the circumstances of my luck, and people needing me every thirty seconds out of game, it's a lot easier to only hold back myself than it is to hold back a whole group. Plus, I like testing myself first, and socializing with other people.

 

Seriously, two days ago I ran a Flashpoint as the tank, and not a long one, either. At one point, a scream kind of said, "drop what you're doing and come quick." One of those kinds of screams. Another point, my PC glitched on me and I ran through the mobs into a wall while I had to alt-tab to fix the issue. My group did alright, but they wouldn't have struggled as much had I been there to actually play instead of fix a PC issue and check on someone who screamed bloody murder for no ******* reason.

It's not like that's a modern sentiment.

 

I mean, there was a huge amount of solo players in EQ. How many wizards and druids never spent any time quad kiting? How many rangers had never spent their time rooting and shooting?

 

I'd say, especially from kunark through PoP, people soloed a lot...

 

There were always solo players but how many actually expected to do same thing as those that played in groups?

[hardicon]

its even better to /quitgroup. no point in arguing with someone over some easily replaceable loot but Im not gonna continue to group with someone that is so bad they dont even know what stats they should roll for.

[wanderica]

I'm saying that no one in the group deserves the item any more than anyone else, and that anyone who makes a claim that they should get it over someone else is being selfish and greedy.

 

fixed. Whether it's an upgrade or not is really irrelevant.

 

Really, it comes down to

• If you feel entitled to items, you're being selfish and greedy.
  
• If you give up items that you want to other people you're been selfless.
  

 

Whether it's "an upgrade" or not doesn't affect those 2 statements.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong here. It has long been known that rolling need on an item that you cannot use or rolling need on an item with the intent to sell is bad form whether or not others that CAN use the items are present, but especially if those individuals ARE present. These are standards and unspoken rules that have been around as long as MMOs themselves.

 

As I've said before, feel free to do whatever the system allows, but this is not WoW (at least not yet). Don't be at all surprised when three months from now you can't get a raid or a heroic mode invite due to your previous actions. We shouldn't even have to have these discussions. The need button is there for NEED, just like the greed button is there for GREED. Blatant disregard for your fellow players will see you rewarded in kind if the system is designed properly.

[notebene]

I will admit I didn't read all the posts, this is just in reply to the OP.

 

I ask if I can roll on things that are my 'base' item type, even if they aren't socketed. If someone whines, then I don't, but the bottom line is, some of those things are much more awesome looking than the things that are 'for my class', and 'yes' I can wear the base item.

 

But at the end of the day, this is the same as all the other 'roll' posts.

 

I think 'all' of these boss drops or socketed items should come up in a mission reward window. 'Everyone' gets a random piece (or two, and you choose the one you want) as a 'mission reward' for downing each boss, and then you are never rolling against each other.

 

So if there are 4 people playing and 2 of them are an IA and a SW, then they both got a shot at possibly walking away from that run with one of the socketable "Hammer Initiate's" pieces.

 

If that makes baby Hey Zeus cry, because of flooding the market or people won't run as much b/c they will get things quicker or "hey, that spoils my fun 'winning' and everyone 'losing' when i roll, you socialist!" - then a counter proposal would be boss dies, everyone gets a 'need roll', not knowing what he is about to drop (so you can't see it), and then the winner of the roll gets a random item from that mobs table.

[Calsetes]

There were always solo players but how many actually expected to do same thing as those that played in groups?

 

Oh, I don't expect to do the same stuff as a group, but I take my groups piecemeal - on an "as-needed" basis. That way, if something bad does happen, it's only limited to that one quest, and that's it.

[chton]

I'm gonna have to disagree, you can also roll need for companions. Unless they changed it with out announcing it. You can also roll need if you just intend to sell it. It's a simple matter of playing with a guild or friends to prevent all these issues. I never understand how people who don't pay my sub fee expect me to play for them.

[TheHeadCapper]

if I am able to press NEED, then i'm allowed to do it

 

 

/thread

 

And you'll probably be looking for a group shortly after. Of least if i'm in the group you'd be looking for a healer.

[TheHeadCapper]

I'm gonna have to disagree, you can also roll need for companions. Unless they changed it with out announcing it. You can also roll need if you just intend to sell it. It's a simple matter of playing with a guild or friends to prevent all these issues. I never understand how people who don't pay my sub fee expect me to play for them.

 

We aren't telling you how to play. Feel free to roll need just don't be surprised in 2 months when you can't find a group for anything.

 

Team work is greater than selfishness.

[Magnijung]

I'm gonna have to disagree, you can also roll need for companions. Unless they changed it with out announcing it. You can also roll need if you just intend to sell it. It's a simple matter of playing with a guild or friends to prevent all these issues. I never understand how people who don't pay my sub fee expect me to play for them.

 

 

Do you mean how people that you play with expect you to play with them?

[ferroz]

I'm sorry, but I think you're wrong here. It has long been known that rolling need on an item that you cannot use or rolling need on an item with the intent to sell is bad form whether or not others that CAN use the items are present, but especially if those individuals ARE present.

That doesn't make the people who feel entitled to the gear any less selfish or greedy.

 

Nasically all you're saying is that it's traditional to be selfish in particular ways and not other ways...

 

These are standards and unspoken rules that have been around as long as MMOs themselves.

No, they're not standard across all mmos, and it's not as all-pervasive and old as you might think.

 

I remember having these discussions on both the EQ forums and the castersrealm forums even after PoP was released. I remember specifically in PoP talking about NBG on armor molds (group based armor set) scrolls (level 61-64 spells) and runes (level 65 spells), and several discussions on the tradition that some servers had for reimbursing clerics for the gems they used. During that there were people participating from servers in EQ did not do NBG loot; there were lots of variations on ths: some didn't do NBG across the board, some did NBG on armor molds but not other items, some did NBG in some camps and not in other camps etc.

 

Even on the servesr where people usually did NBG, it wasn't always the case. During velious, if you were in lower guk and got into a frenzy group, it wasn't reasonable to expect people to roll NBG on the FBSS when (or if) it dropped on my server.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ferroz

[ferroz]

There were always solo players but how many actually expected to do same thing as those that played in groups?

Quite a few, though I agree less than we have now; games have moved radically away from the group centric model over the last decade so that it only really shows up at the level cap now. Edited January 25, 2012 by ferroz

[Ansultares]

It's probably more endurance/armor but he loses a good chunk of main stats for cunning, which does literally nothing for a Sith Warrior. Not only that, but what do you think he is going to keep doing if he isn't educated on what to do? He's just going to keep taking gear, gimping himself and griefing other players in the process.

He rolled a marauder.

 

He's a waste of space already. Why did you even bring him to the flashpoint? A companion would have been more useful.

[Felioats]

This is a no-brainer. I support the OP.

[Galbatorrix]

"Whether it's an upgrade or not is really irrelevant."

 

 

It's not irrelevant at all. You're spending time in that flashpoint for gear upgrades. That the whole point of flashpoints in the first place. You run them for gear. otherwise, you'd run them once and never step foot in them again. The fact is that some idiot that doesn't know how to play/has no common courtesy rolls need on items not intended for their class when you could have fully benefited from the item is them robbing you of your time and making the game more unpleasant for you at the same time. The moron in this situation is being selfish and self centered. Not the person who had his/her entire purpose of them being in the FP stolen away. If there is someone in your group that can fully benefit from the item, you pass. Plain and simple. Doing anything else makes you a very poor person and I'm glad that these people will eventually be black listed and not invited to participate in groups at all. Maybe once they have to reroll a couple times to be able to participate, they'll learn to be decent and respect other's time and effort.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[ferroz]

"Whether it's an upgrade or not is really irrelevant."

It's not irrelevant at all.

No, it's quite irrelevant.

You're spending time in that flashpoint for gear upgrades.

No, YOU're spending time in that flashpoint for gear upgrades. Bob is spending time in that flashpoint looking for enhancement upgrades. Alice is in that flashpoint looking for companion upgrades. Carol is in that flashpoint looking for a specific orange item to look like what she wants to. I'm in the flashpoint because I like stabbing stuff with my lightsaber.

 

That's the whole point of flashpoints in the first place. People do them for different reasons.

 

The fact that some idiot that doesn't know how to play/has no common courtesy rolls need on items not intended for their class when you could have fully benefited from the item is them robbing you of your time and making the game more unpleasant for you at the same time.

The fact that you feel like you're being robbed is unhealthy; you should try to be less selfish.

 

The moron in the situation is being selfish and self centered.

So are you; in fact, if you complain about not getting it because you feel entitled to it, you're being MORE selfish and self centered than he is.

 

Not the person who had the entire purpose of them being their stolen away.

If you think things are being stolen away from you, you're feeling entitled due to your own selfishness.

 

If you actually want to be selfless, you pass on items that other people want even if you also want them.... even if the reason you want them is because they are a stat upgrade. Plain and simple.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ferroz

[Ruuprect]

I am not sure what is wrong with just using common courtesy in an MMO. it's not like you can sell the gear you ninja'd for any real money and money is super easy to get.

 

As far as the orange gear is concerned, i guess there is an argument to be made there but is it really that big of a deal. You get so much orange armor and weapons in this game it's not like you are not ever going to get another shot at an orange. I was all orange by lvl 30 i think.

 

If the armor or weapon has a stat on it that can only be used by a certain class and its an upgrade for them then it should be NBG in all instances. If it is not an upgrade then another class can roll need if the mods would be an upgrade for someone else. If it is not an upgrade for anyone then it's fair game for companions as well.

 

To me it's just common courtesy to ask others before needing on something, and/or working out a system before you start the instance.

 

Not sure why this is even ever an issue. I have never had a problem if we worked out loot rules before we started an instance.

[a_coathanger]

IF WE WANTED NINJA LOOTING WE'D PLAY EVE ONLINE!

 

 

Have a need for class and a need for mods.

[MrTijger]

It is not about behaving like adults. Age has very little to do with how people behave. Before MMOs went mainstream, few select people were playing the game and they were playing because they enjoyed the genre. When the game went mainstream, we have players that do not care about the genre. They are playing MMOs because they are the next hot thing. Currently we can police ourselves, to an extent but nothing is forcing people to actually learn how MMOs function.

 

How often do you see people saying "I am a solo player..." What? People play Massively Multiplayer Online game to play alone?

 

Behaving like an adult is not related to being adult age wise.

[Ansultares]

I've never seen a game cater to selfish casuals so much as this one.

 

Whaawhaawhaa, because I can roll need I deserve to!!!!!

Whaaaaawhaaawhaaa, macros are unacceptable and elitist, but advanced quest tracker is a-ok!!!

 

Could go on, but really, BW didn't just fail to foster a quality community, they seem to have actively fostered a terrible community, one that may even make the WoW community look good.

[Galbatorrix]

ferroz...

 

You are completely hopeless. And good luck to you, Bob, Alice and Carol. You guys better stick together or you're going to have a hell of a time finding people who'll actually group with you later.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Galbatorrix

[ispanolfw]

I am not sure what is wrong with just using common courtesy in an MMO. it's not like you can sell the gear you ninja'd for any real money and money is super easy to get.

 

As far as the orange gear is concerned, i guess there is an argument to be made there but is it really that big of a deal. You get so much orange armor and weapons in this game it's not like you are not ever going to get another shot at an orange. I was all orange by lvl 30 i think.

 

If the armor or weapon has a stat on it that can only be used by a certain class and its an upgrade for them then it should be NBG in all instances. If it is not an upgrade then another class can roll need if the mods would be an upgrade for someone else. If it is not an upgrade for anyone then it's fair game for companions as well.

 

To me it's just common courtesy to ask others before needing on something, and/or working out a system before you start the instance.

 

Not sure why this is even ever an issue. I have never had a problem if we worked out loot rules before we started an instance.

 

The problem isn't JUST that it's orange. I personally have no desire to wear IA looking gear on my Marauder, but I could see how some would. Orange Items were put in to allow that type of customization. Some may say, solo the Flashpoint once you are able to, to get that item, except you cannot. As a Marauder, only Warrior orange gear, aside from weapons, has ever dropped for me when soloing. And i'm not saying I would roll for it even if I did want it, but far too many feel that they have some entitlement to the item, when it clearly was designed with looks customization in mind. Again, this is related to orange items.

 

To add to that, ALL the orange items I get from missions on my Marauder are Sith Warrior types. And like I said before, soloing a FP, still Warrior types. We can only get FP IA looking gear in a group in a FP. Again not for or against, but many see it as "it's my stats it's mine!", or rather entitlement. You have no entitlement until it actually hits your inventory. It's not theft unless they literally TAKE it from you, and if it has never hit your inventory, it's not theft, regardless of what YOU THINK the word theft means.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add, I do agree with the rules set before you enter the FP, feel free to blacklist or whatever if those are violated. But otherwise there is no claim or cause for the argument against. None.

Edited January 25, 2012 by ispanolfw

[Thistlejack]

Why are MMO forums the only place on earth people justify something by saying "Well, I CAN do something therefore it means I SHOULD do something?"

 

I CAN pee in the sink, but it does not mean I SHOULD pee in the sink.

 

I can actually sympathize if people don't understand the concept of class-specific items, especially in the first flashpoints.

[ispanolfw]

Why are MMO forums the only place on earth people justify something by saying "Well, I CAN do something therefore it means I SHOULD do something?"

 

I CAN pee in the sink, but it does not mean I SHOULD pee in the sink.

 

I can actually sympathize if people don't understand the concept of class-specific items, especially in the first flashpoints.

 

If the item is Orange AND Class Specific, then yes, I can agree. If it's not bound to that class however, like a Marauder wanting the looks of IA gear, I can go over it in my head over and over and still come to the same conclusion. No one is entitled to the item until they get it, Orange items were made primarily with looks in mind, so if that's why a Marauder wants it, I cannot see an issue with it. The only thing I CAN see is people who feel because it has stats for their class, which can be changed mind you, they have some sort of entitlement to it. And if they don't get it, it's stolen now, when it's not.

[Ruuprect]

The problem isn't JUST that it's orange. I personally have no desire to wear IA looking gear on my Marauder, but I could see how some would. Orange Items were put in to allow that type of customization. Some may say, solo the Flashpoint once you are able to, to get that item, except you cannot. As a Marauder, only Warrior orange gear, aside from weapons, has ever dropped for me when soloing. And i'm not saying I would roll for it even if I did want it, but far too many feel that they have some entitlement to the item, when it clearly was designed with looks customization in mind. Again, this is related to orange items.

 

To add to that, ALL the orange items I get from missions on my Marauder are Sith Warrior types. And like I said before, soloing a FP, still Warrior types. We can only get FP IA looking gear in a group in a FP. Again not for or against, but many see it as "it's my stats it's mine!", or rather entitlement. You have no entitlement until it actually hits your inventory. It's not theft unless they literally TAKE it from you, and if it has never hit your inventory, it's not theft, regardless of what YOU THINK the word theft means.

 

I understand what you are saying and i never said anything about theft.

 

I just think it is courteous to ask if it is not secifically an upgrade for you. I have never had anyone say no when I asked if I could need on something that no one else needed especially if it was for cosmetic value or for my comanion.

 

Not sure where people get this mentality that if it says i can nedd I will need no matter what. If everybody just asked I think a lot of these issues would be moot.

[daemian]

I've never seen a game cater to selfish casuals so much as this one.

 

Whaawhaawhaa, because I can roll need I deserve to!!!!!...

 

Well, that's the thing, the game is not catering to any one group. It lets the roll of the dice decide.