RealAeiouy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Arenas are bottom of the barrel PvP content. Even calling it "content" is a small exaggeration. WOW Arenas are tiny, tiny maps that Jim the Intern could knock out in a day. It's straight deathmatch so it's not even an interesting strategic experience. It's like -- why would you play Counterstrike or Battlefield if the maps were all just rooms roughly a quarter of the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot with no interesting features? Sure it might be fun for a time or two but how could you play that every day for months? Arenas just bore me to death. I want a little strategy in my gameplay. Voidstar should be considered a strategic minimum. "Do not get any less strategic than this." We should be asking for content that improves on what we already have. Arenas are a step backwards. Excellent post. We should be expecting more of the developers than the laziest pvp idea ever. I think there is a lot of room for creative Warzones. I also like the idea of individual and team ranked Warzones as well. Just so much more to do. Arenas were just wow developers mailing it in and at the same time screwing up the whole game forever forward. There is room for larger scale Warzones, more same faction Warzones, more 8v8. Arenas were never a good idea, they were just an idea. It would be like saying "let's put in a practice dummy and give the best pve loot for killing it and balance the game around it". That is an idea but not a good one. We should expect more then bare minimum barney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 i think some of them have tried the game , but this game have nothing to offer to competitive players since the pvp is gear based and not skill based Umm competitive pvp players would not think that because it is not true. Competitive pvp players pvp so they don't end up level 13 with no gear forever. Competitive pvp players don't look at a low gear ceiling at say that is what pvp is about. The pvp in this game is as much gear based as any other mainstream mmogs. Competitive pvp players base their opinions on players being in end game gear so again not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaid Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Arena in SWTOR, with the -fundamental- way in which classes, cc's, interrupts, snares and cooldowns work in this game would be a complete *joke*. They would literally serve no purpose but to show how stupid their pvp design team is. Please save us all the embarassment of adding arena to SWTOR. It will be doomed to failure from the moment it's introduced until the last dieing gasp of the game after they are introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you put in Arena, you must dedicate a significant amount of time into balancing the game around groups and comps of that size. This frequently led to balancing changes in WoW that impacted the viability of specs outside of arena, both in BGs and especially PvE content that were completely fine. This is a large reason to why I quit playing WoW. I do not want to see TOR follow the same fate. This. So many times this. In fact this times the mass of the Sun. In Kilograms. Thats 1.9 x 10 to the 30. Whole lotta this. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeielskedei Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I've read about the 10th of these arena posts and I want to also state my opinion for once First to state my point of view: I am definatly for arenas, I played WoW ever since the introduction of arenas only for arenas. I never broke 2000 Rating over those years, yet I kept playing and it was what made the game fun for me. I wasn't among the best, I didn't even get the best gear but yet I played. Reasons I think arena is good: PVP has, atleast in my eyes, at its roots the wish to compete against other players. I want to know how well I fare in regards to taking advantage of my characters traits in comparison to other people. PVE does not offer me this for in most MMO's you can play a character at near 100 % effectiveness using just 4-5 buttons in a pre set rotation or a priority system, the rest is just gear. Whilst not all players manage this a big part do and there is no form of competition between those. Adittionaly, u don't have to react to unforseen events and just go through your set ideas, which again gives less room for errors and thereby distinction. If I now go into a battleground, I play my part in a 8 v 8 scenario. If we win, I have 1/8 of the responsibility for it, the same if we loose. The truth is, that I can play at my very best, and yet if the other 7 guys mess up, we will loose. In a 2v2 (though I also allways thought that 2v2 is more for fun as balancing is not possible without making mirror classes) 3v3 or 5v5 enviroment my part on weather we win or loose is significantly higher and you guessed it, I loved to play 3v3 and 2v2 since there my part is the biggest. If I mess up, we almost allways lost. I want to know how well >>I<< fare and how good me and my buddy(s) manage to interact. Not that the other 7 guys made the game for me and I somehow managed to stick in with them, or the oposite that I played a flawless game and we nevertheless lost. I admit that BG's beeing 8v8 this is better here than in WoW ranging from 10v10 to 40v40 or 15 v 15 only taking ranked. But still, it's a lot less of a personal sucess and proof of skill. This is the reason why I want arenas and am not fully happy with Rated BG's. I also think that the hole playstyle in BG's is dumbed down a little because they are a lot more forgiving. Again, I want to know how flawless and to the best possible way I can play my class, there needs to be room for errors to do so. If I make a fatal mistake in an Arena I die and my team has likely lost. If I make the same mistake in BG's I have a 0-20 second respawn timer and am back in the frame, potentially even faring better cause I can intercept the ballcarrier now. Don't get me wrong, they can also be punishing and there's a lot of tactics involved and I am happy when they introduce them. But in my eyes they seem more forgiving than an arena situation. I do not understand a lot of the arguments people are bringing up against arenas. One of the strongest and in the same time most confusing for me is that arenas have constant class changes following their path as balancing has to be regarded constantly. This I dont understand, an arena system does not create imbalance! It only shows it in the most possible clear manner. There are the exactly same classes with the exactly same skillsets as before. Just that now you're possible factors for explaining why class X or combination Y fared worse than class Z or combination T are narrowed down giving a better view. Everyone had their CD's ready, it was a even fight 2v2 3v3 5v5 etc, and the map setting was fair. Whereas in Warzones you have a huge ammount of other factors that may hide the actual imbalance. There are often no even fights, CD's are as good as never evenly distributed and those 3 ranged might have been piled on a slim walkway and therefor been able to knock the 5 melees down. It is my personal opinion that all the arena changes in WoW also positively effected BG and Open PVP. You cannot balance on a big scale, things are just not possible to comprehend in such a scale. Whereas if balancing works on a small scale like 3v3 you can bet it will also apply on 15v15 or 20 v 20. The most obvious example beeing this. If you would balance 1 v 1, all classes would be equal as A would have a counter to everything B has, and 100 v 100 would be balanced too (though this is not wished). To be clear, I am not pulling this theorie out of my ***, the same holds true for economics, where macro economics are dirived of the sum of all their single pieces in microeconomics. For everyone who read till here I say thank you for your time and I hope you have your opinion to share on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because the majority of gamers are bad, they don't want any competition or try hard. Otherwise they would also want a combat log. Its as easy as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forsbacka Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Well arena or not, when rated WZs for premades only are coming soon, nay sayers will be in it for a treat. People that were good in arena and plays this game now will dominate the ladder. RBGs or rated WZs aint any indication of skill, good PvPrs are good in anywhere and personal "skill" is all that matters. Was funny when on WoW PvP forums people used to say that arenas suck and people are just win trading and playing FOTM comps, rated BGS was added that was to supposed to be real test of tactical skilled PvP. Well every top team was filled mostly with high rated arena people and they destroyed BG heroes totally, forums got suddenly quiet about it. Same will happen here. Casual Joe is in it for a treat when rated premade WZs come. Edited January 30, 2012 by Forsbacka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste-wan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hated Arenas in WoW. Will hate them worse here. Don't play it then if you hate it. Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xHPx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Arena has inflated rewards that force people into the arena mini-game, even if they don't want to. If arena only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give arena players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day. Operations has inflated rewards that force people into the operation mini-game, even if they don't want to. If operations only offered titles and mounts etc., I would not have a problem with it, but if they give operation players gear advantages, it should never see the light of day. Just replaced arena with operations to make you see how you sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheneria Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) a arena system that mesures "skill" is only viable if they give up the class- and gear heavy system, so everyone is equal and with maxed out skills/gear. before that mmorpg arenas and generally PVP are just a joke. Edited January 30, 2012 by Sheneria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapuchinSeven Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Blizzard actually said if they'd known what the arena was going to do to their game then they'd have never put it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordain Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 PvP in this game is too shallow for any arena system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 arenas is close envyronment , everyone have all cds up , is all about how you use them , in warzone is not like that! you are just trying to hide behind something that doesnt make you seem bad and make you feel bad for it. in WZ you can say 100000 excuses for why you fail without even think " was my fault" , in arena you cant do that , thats why no1 like arenas. in warzone you can be a tank , you can not even have spells on bars , you carry the ball from the place to the base and you are good , in arena you need something more than that to be good , is different things , and cant be compared. i think arena is good as the players who play it! now in this thread i see 90% of the people saying arena is a bad thing dont put that ingame , if it comes i ll see that 90% crying here for nerfs , thats the problem of arenas =D Chester, most people in arenas are being carried as well. It is rare you have three equally skilled players on the same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjwhite Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because they don't want a ranking system in which they cant get the best gear just by grinding instead of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Lets do an experiment OP... answer me this, would you still participate, and consider them as fun as you do, if arenas gave ZERO REWARDS zero valor, zero comendations...just bragging rights.... would you still want them implemented? im guessing no.. to be fair, arenas changed not only the entire pvp game, but they also changed the entire development focus to cater to the arena junkies, THIS is why a lot of us dont want this travesty of pvpinabox implemented or even uttered by the developers here, heck even blizzard admits its one of the biggest development mistakes they ever did and the main reason they had to dumb down the talents and game so much afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If you want us to take PVP seriously we will need ARENAS. I dont care about WoW having Arenas or any other game, we as PVPers need them. One thing is true, they need to fix the current PVP adn the ability delay first. the thing is , i dont care about you guys that take pvp seriously , after all you dont care about the pve crowd that might get boned to accomodate for your lolarena balance so why should i care about your pvp? regardless of what you may think, you ARE the minority on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidpop Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 personally i would like big scale wars insted, but guess those days are dead and gone, its all little boxed maps in mmos now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP. "Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well. The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button. It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed. So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP. i can name 3 abilities from just my shaman that were FLAT OUT REMOVED FROM BOTH PVP AND PVE because of arenas...... tremor totem removed, poison cleansing removed because of whiny rogues about PVP , purge nerfed to uselessness because of....what? pvp... so sorry but facts are facts, the pve crowd DID GET BONED because of arena balance, and even most players and devs admit it now that it was a mistake wow still has arenas, i wonder why you dont play there anymore, perhaps because the game is so dumbed down (another effect of your arenas) that it bores you now? what do you thnk will happen here if they put arenas? the same friggin thing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste-wan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Lets do an experiment OP... answer me this, would you still participate, and consider them as fun as you do, if arenas gave ZERO REWARDS zero valor, zero comendations...just bragging rights.... would you still want them implemented? im guessing no.. to be fair, arenas changed not only the entire pvp game, but they also changed the entire development focus to cater to the arena junkies, THIS is why a lot of us dont want this travesty of pvpinabox implemented or even uttered by the developers here, heck even blizzard admits its one of the biggest development mistakes they ever did and the main reason they had to dumb down the talents and game so much afterwards How about if operations or WZ gave ZERO REWARDS would you play them then? I'm guessing no... Your analogue is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste-wan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 the thing is , i dont care about you guys that take pvp seriously , after all you dont care about the pve crowd that might get boned to accomodate for your lolarena balance so why should i care about your pvp? regardless of what you may think, you ARE the minority on this Why create a game with PvE and PvP at all? why not two different games? You could even have a third game for those who want to do crafting... Could it be that people like their game to be more than one dimensional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How about if operations or WZ gave ZERO REWARDS would you play them then? I'm guessing no... Your analogue is flawed. no it isnt, because pvp isnt REQUIRED to progress your character, whereas pve content IS YOUR reply is the one thats flawed buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaVolpex Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Why create a game with PvE and PvP at all? why not two different games? You could even have a third game for those who want to do crafting... Could it be that people like their game to be more than one dimensional? lol having fun follwing me around are you? in any case, look to what i was replying on that post (the quote) before answering and looking dumb with a post completley irrelevant to my answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
despised Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because the game is too unbalanced.... You would have to play an operative, sorc, merc ..anybody else aint gettin rank or gear.sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don;t care if they add it or not. I would rather them focus their efforts on something that more players would use though like new WZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ste-wan Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 no it isnt, because pvp isnt REQUIRED to progress your character, whereas pve content IS YOUR reply is the one thats flawed buddy No it isn't - you could have PvE that is based on skill rather than gear if you wanted it to be. But if the only reward was to have completed it people wouldn't keep on going back day after day to try and get better. Rewards make people come back and play it again and again to get rewarded again. Sorry if you don't understand this but that's not my fault "buddy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts