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yeielskedei

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  1. I find your post well structured and it resembles my opinion a lot. I would like to post what I said in another arena thread but got lost over a few guys having a dispute and it therefor beeing overseen quickly; I've read about the 10th of these arena posts and I want to also state my opinion for once First to state my point of view: I am definatly for arenas, I played WoW ever since the introduction of arenas only for arenas. I never broke 2000 Rating over those years, yet I kept playing and it was what made the game fun for me. I wasn't among the best, I didn't even get the best gear but yet I played. Reasons I think arena is good: PVP has, atleast in my eyes, at its roots the wish to compete against other players. I want to know how well I fare in regards to taking advantage of my characters traits in comparison to other people. PVE does not offer me this for in most MMO's you can play a character at near 100 % effectiveness using just 4-5 buttons in a pre set rotation or a priority system, the rest is just gear. Whilst not all players manage this a big part do and there is no form of competition between those. Adittionaly, u don't have to react to unforseen events and just go through your set ideas, which again gives less room for errors and thereby distinction. If I now go into a battleground, I play my part in a 8 v 8 scenario. If we win, I have 1/8 of the responsibility for it, the same if we loose. The truth is, that I can play at my very best, and yet if the other 7 guys mess up, we will loose. In a 2v2 (though I also allways thought that 2v2 is more for fun as balancing is not possible without making mirror classes) 3v3 or 5v5 enviroment my part on weather we win or loose is significantly higher and you guessed it, I loved to play 3v3 and 2v2 since there my part is the biggest. If I mess up, we almost allways lost. I want to know how well >>I<< fare and how good me and my buddy(s) manage to interact. Not that the other 7 guys made the game for me and I somehow managed to stick in with them, or the oposite that I played a flawless game and we nevertheless lost. I admit that BG's beeing 8v8 this is better here than in WoW ranging from 10v10 to 40v40 or 15 v 15 only taking ranked. But still, it's a lot less of a personal sucess and proof of skill. This is the reason why I want arenas and am not fully happy with Rated BG's. I also think that the hole playstyle in BG's is dumbed down a little because they are a lot more forgiving. Again, I want to know how flawless and to the best possible way I can play my class, there needs to be room for errors to do so. If I make a fatal mistake in an Arena I die and my team has likely lost. If I make the same mistake in BG's I have a 0-20 second respawn timer and am back in the frame, potentially even faring better cause I can intercept the ballcarrier now. Don't get me wrong, they can also be punishing and there's a lot of tactics involved and I am happy when they introduce them. But in my eyes they seem more forgiving than an arena situation. I do not understand a lot of the arguments people are bringing up against arenas. One of the strongest and in the same time most confusing for me is that arenas have constant class changes following their path as balancing has to be regarded constantly. This I dont understand, an arena system does not create imbalance! It only shows it in the most possible clear manner. There are the exactly same classes with the exactly same skillsets as before. Just that now you're possible factors for explaining why class X or combination Y fared worse than class Z or combination T are narrowed down giving a better view. Everyone had their CD's ready, it was a even fight 2v2 3v3 5v5 etc, and the map setting was fair. Whereas in Warzones you have a huge ammount of other factors that may hide the actual imbalance. There are often no even fights, CD's are as good as never evenly distributed and those 3 ranged might have been piled on a slim walkway and therefor been able to knock the 5 melees down. It is my personal opinion that all the arena changes in WoW also positively effected BG and Open PVP. You cannot balance on a big scale, things are just not possible to comprehend in such a scale. Whereas if balancing works on a small scale like 3v3 you can bet it will also apply on 15v15 or 20 v 20. The most obvious example beeing this. If you would balance 1 v 1, all classes would be equal as A would have a counter to everything B has, and 100 v 100 would be balanced too (though this is not wished). To be clear, I am not pulling this theorie out of my ***, the same holds true for economics, where macro economics are dirived of the sum of all their single pieces in microeconomics. For everyone who read till here I say thank you for your time and I hope you have your opinion to share on mine.
  2. I've read about the 10th of these arena posts and I want to also state my opinion for once First to state my point of view: I am definatly for arenas, I played WoW ever since the introduction of arenas only for arenas. I never broke 2000 Rating over those years, yet I kept playing and it was what made the game fun for me. I wasn't among the best, I didn't even get the best gear but yet I played. Reasons I think arena is good: PVP has, atleast in my eyes, at its roots the wish to compete against other players. I want to know how well I fare in regards to taking advantage of my characters traits in comparison to other people. PVE does not offer me this for in most MMO's you can play a character at near 100 % effectiveness using just 4-5 buttons in a pre set rotation or a priority system, the rest is just gear. Whilst not all players manage this a big part do and there is no form of competition between those. Adittionaly, u don't have to react to unforseen events and just go through your set ideas, which again gives less room for errors and thereby distinction. If I now go into a battleground, I play my part in a 8 v 8 scenario. If we win, I have 1/8 of the responsibility for it, the same if we loose. The truth is, that I can play at my very best, and yet if the other 7 guys mess up, we will loose. In a 2v2 (though I also allways thought that 2v2 is more for fun as balancing is not possible without making mirror classes) 3v3 or 5v5 enviroment my part on weather we win or loose is significantly higher and you guessed it, I loved to play 3v3 and 2v2 since there my part is the biggest. If I mess up, we almost allways lost. I want to know how well >>I<< fare and how good me and my buddy(s) manage to interact. Not that the other 7 guys made the game for me and I somehow managed to stick in with them, or the oposite that I played a flawless game and we nevertheless lost. I admit that BG's beeing 8v8 this is better here than in WoW ranging from 10v10 to 40v40 or 15 v 15 only taking ranked. But still, it's a lot less of a personal sucess and proof of skill. This is the reason why I want arenas and am not fully happy with Rated BG's. I also think that the hole playstyle in BG's is dumbed down a little because they are a lot more forgiving. Again, I want to know how flawless and to the best possible way I can play my class, there needs to be room for errors to do so. If I make a fatal mistake in an Arena I die and my team has likely lost. If I make the same mistake in BG's I have a 0-20 second respawn timer and am back in the frame, potentially even faring better cause I can intercept the ballcarrier now. Don't get me wrong, they can also be punishing and there's a lot of tactics involved and I am happy when they introduce them. But in my eyes they seem more forgiving than an arena situation. I do not understand a lot of the arguments people are bringing up against arenas. One of the strongest and in the same time most confusing for me is that arenas have constant class changes following their path as balancing has to be regarded constantly. This I dont understand, an arena system does not create imbalance! It only shows it in the most possible clear manner. There are the exactly same classes with the exactly same skillsets as before. Just that now you're possible factors for explaining why class X or combination Y fared worse than class Z or combination T are narrowed down giving a better view. Everyone had their CD's ready, it was a even fight 2v2 3v3 5v5 etc, and the map setting was fair. Whereas in Warzones you have a huge ammount of other factors that may hide the actual imbalance. There are often no even fights, CD's are as good as never evenly distributed and those 3 ranged might have been piled on a slim walkway and therefor been able to knock the 5 melees down. It is my personal opinion that all the arena changes in WoW also positively effected BG and Open PVP. You cannot balance on a big scale, things are just not possible to comprehend in such a scale. Whereas if balancing works on a small scale like 3v3 you can bet it will also apply on 15v15 or 20 v 20. The most obvious example beeing this. If you would balance 1 v 1, all classes would be equal as A would have a counter to everything B has, and 100 v 100 would be balanced too (though this is not wished). To be clear, I am not pulling this theorie out of my ***, the same holds true for economics, where macro economics are dirived of the sum of all their single pieces in microeconomics. For everyone who read till here I say thank you for your time and I hope you have your opinion to share on mine.
  3. Why's there allways so much hate on the internet...? The threadopener wanted some insight weather we suck or not. I prooved him that atleast in some occasions we don't. Going 6:0 often doesn't count as a win regarding your weekly/daily quests due to a bug and if you take into consideration that you may very well wait 20 minutes to join a BG it's the best Valor/Minute if you play it the hole 15 min through and maximise medals. And your statement about a "good pvp Guardian" are regarding a Tank, as DD you normaly don't cary the ball... Does my damage look like a tanks to you? My role in voidstar as a damage dealer (again mind you, I am NOT tank specced and should NOT fill that role) is to hinder the enemy team by doing damage to them and killing them, where do you think the most people are and thus the most damage can be done? Exactly... near the doors, where I should be... It's a 8v8 game, my team and thus me loosing doesn't at all mean failings on my end, last I checked, you can only be at one door at a time but I am pretty sure there are 2, oh gosh! Point still stands, you can do very well with a Guardian.
  4. Thank you! So I misread, I allways thought it was possible to take mods out of PVP armor and put them into another. Apperantly not.
  5. I see what u mean, once you gear up our burst becomes quite valueable and arguably the best. That it is AOE realy makes it shine. Against multiple melees you're often in the situation that after dispatching one of them the others arround you are below half health. Which can lead to you actualy beeing able to solo mutliple enemys. I do think though that we are justified to have such damage, here are the reasons why I think so - We are melee, whilst we have gap closers, ranged have many (some even have 2 knochbakcs) gapmakers, so a 100 % uptime is never achieved whereas any ranged should be able to have near a 100 % damage uptime on you, the ocasional interrupt taking from that. The design of the most played Map, huttball, which therefor is the major factor for performance strongly favors ranged once more since a knockback wont only knock you 10 meters away but most of the time a rather long walk, all allong you get damaged from ranged. - In the momentary form of 8 v 8 PVP people gang up against melee a lot. It's only a natural reaction that when someone jumps into your face you feel he's the biggest threat leading to us beeing focus fired even by random people in groups without any coordination whatsoever - Though we wear heavy armor our survivability is, in said damage spec, pretty bad since we get focused and atacked from range with a lot of damage ignoring our 10- 15 % damage migation headstart on medium and light armor wearers. - Most other classes have min 1 stun, we don't, force choke is not a real stun for it takes us out of the fight as well, in a 1 v 1 situation you only gain the damage of the ticks ahead of your enemy or against a dot class using forcechoke even puts you behind them in damage since their dots ticked harder than your choke, in 2 v 1 (you beeing one) force choke also is a bad choice since you take 1 out of the equation whilst the other is battering you down. All these deficits don't apply to normal stuns which are ALLWAYS beneficial (unless you wanna keep resolve low) These are the main points why in my eyes if they are anywhere near potent developpers we will not see a nerf in our damage. It would had to be paired with strong defensive buffs or mobility, allowing us near 100 % uptime. Since we are not there all the time we should be able to make it count when we are. My 2 cents
  6. I don't mean to be rude though it would be justified regarding your reply but I could read a chinese screenshot even. It's very easy to know what the numbers stand for, as a hint if you realy need it. The huge one is damage done. Btw they are arranged exactly the same as in your beloved mothertongue ;-) - make the links! I just added the screenies to show that in no way we are weak. On another note, I have read a few times now, once also in this thread, that some of you state you can replace mods on PVP gear, would someone care to elaborate the process for me? I am quite annoyed of how little surge is on most of them and I would have quite a few excess pvp items. Appreciate the help
  7. I can promise you, as soon as you get mostly PVP equipped and spec correctly you are an unstoppable force on the battlefield. Even since patch 1.1 I almost allways break 300k damage. Sweep just hits to hard. The difference to other classes is though, that I die very often since people like to focus whats closest to them. But when I died in 4-5 people after AOE mezzing them and then smashing once for anything between 3.4 - 6 k damage on them I died with a smile on my face. Here are 2 screenshots to support what I said, I hope I post them right, never did so far... http://imgur.com/QOnhD This one was special since the enemy team had like 3-4 healers, and people werent dieing often. As well I didn't have a personal healer but our team had some good ones and I avoided dieing with charging out and using the med packs standing arround quite often. http://i.imgur.com/mewsg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8WPQq.jpg The second one is more of a natural but in my eyes still good run, you can see there were only crap healers, just 1 that had 190k which realy isn't a lot considering there also are AOE heals. I died 6 times yet managed to get over 300k damage and 60k protection. We have a harder time to get our points and we do tend to die a lot more since we're a melee that cannot hide and mindless zergs will allways focus whats closest to them but still we can rack quite a punch and are to be feared in my eyes Hope this raises your hopes!
  8. Thank you. This is the spec I am planning to run on 50. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cRZuZGrR0ddMdGR.1 Also thank you for your referencing! I feel to have to disagree though with your statement that Rage only seems to have more mobility on paper. Unstoppable is an amazing talent, hands down. But it only makes you mobily every 15 seconds, anything done to you AFTER those 4 seconds, and good players will wait those 4 seconds, shuts you down. Whereas Rage jumps in and Force Crushes/slows the target that after the 3 sec imobilize the target most likely wont leave your 10 meter area of damage. The mobility issue I have is the situation that appears a lot in pvp that a target is running from you anywhere between 4.1 and 9.9 meters away from you. And thats where Annihliate realy kicks in, the strong point not realy beeing the jump itsself, but the 40 % runspeed boost for 4 seconds after allowing you to catch up to your target even if both of you have a 50 % slow. The two 20 % damage reducers ofcourse speak for Vengance, I give you that! And a lot of damage comes imediatly after you jump into the frame so they are put to good use. Though I would argue the intercede reduce doesn't come into play that often. You said that Vengance has the same ofspec as Rage. This is true, but they don't pull out the same benefit. Rage's Anhiliation (or how ever u spell that...) allows a free Force Scream every 7.5 s in average (ofc in PVP this may be longer) which is < than the 9 s CD on force scream whereas Vengance only has one every 15 s which is > than 9 s. It also makes watching the CD for vengance harder taking away from your ability to play well, whereas as Rage the rule is simple, scream only after one of the 2 jumps. And the Free slow costs 2 talent points for both specs, unless u want it to be costing 1 and returning 1 for Vengance, but Rage has also 1 ragecost of their 31 talent so they get more from it. Small difference but it is nevertheless one. It is in my eyes very clear the Vengance is a lot more fun to play since you focuse on the hole array of tools you have whereas Rage only runs down to the question of how can I build up my next 6k smash and the rest is just a nice bonus. But still I think untill Ravage is usefull or the 25-30 talent is changed in vengance it just isn't a competition for Rage.
  9. In my eyes Rage wins the duel by far. If played correctly you manage to get 2 auto crit 200 % damage Smashes off in ~ 15 seconds . Even with my lvl 46 Jugg thats 2 times 3500 damage, I have seen that PVP geared Juggs manage 6k with one, thats 12k in 15 seconds with 2 abilitys allone. Not counting the ability damage that led to that combination. Oh yeah, and it's AOE... Whereas Vengance's top tier talent gives a buff to a ability thats utter useless in PVP exept againt total beginners. If they'd change Ravage to be channeled while moving Vengance could, in my eyes realy only COULD catch up, since Rage still has a lot more mobility and a constant free forcescream + free slow. The talents in Vengance sound good on paper, and the 11 point talent also is realy good in practice, but 4 Rage while stunned is not that much considered a Forcescream costs 4 Rage (3 actualy for vengance) and you don't get stunned every 18 seconds in PVP unless more than 1 guy focuses on you. Similar picture with the talent taht upps the damage of your next ability by 10 % with each slow, you have to get slowed 5! times to have a 50 % damage modifier on 1 atack, in reality, again you don't get slowed that often without triggering any ability, rather 1 time or not at all, and if you DO get slowed that often you are anyway as good as dead. And even with the 50 % buff its nothing compared to Rage's smashes which have the same cooldown (9s) In a PVE scene where you have more or less 100 % uptime I guess the 2 are compareable, but in PVP which for a melee, atleast with the momentary system consits of short moments of contact, Rage can do more in those 5-6 seconds your on a target at a time. I hope this long post contains anything of value, I just wrote what comes to my head regarding the discussion of the 2. I would LOVE to see vengance be better since I wanted to play a jugg and a mauroudeur has access to a similar skill tree what makes it less "unique" in my eyes but at the moment it's not even a competition.
  10. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cRZuZGrR0ddMdGR.1 This would be my rage spec. I hope I got the link right U get a free AOE snare and vicious slash is almost never used and 2 points for 6 % more obliterate damage are moot compared with a 10 % life heal or that 1 sec more imobilization.
  11. I also want to strongly stress the point that if you would take lets say a Bountyhunter with the same equipment you seem to run arround with that it would be even more obscene. Nevertheless I can also state that at higher lvl's the Rage Tree begins to shine, I am lvl 43 on my jugg and a 100 % bonusdmg guaranteed smash crit is very impressive. Nevertheless what I have the most problem with is not realy the class itsself but the PVP system in regards to melee. If they would introduce something Arenalikish we would realy shine as the class overall is in a good state at lvl 50, but considering that PVP is atleast 8v8 and you have to jump into a group yelling here I am - whack me, it's just not realy satisfying to jump into a group, hit them all with 3.5k + (i guess your nr's are higher) and die 5-20 seconds later. Rinse and repeat. Your damage in the end is comparable and your team is nowhere worse of if they would have another ranged instead of you as the damage would have been dished out anyways but it's just not all that fun for you. I am coming from WoW and played a melee there as well as a ranged and somehow never felt it this bad, I guess a big part has to do with hutballs layer system further putting ranged into a better position. Sorry bout the excurse But I realy dont see the jugg to be all that fun in PVP once the others have geared up in our momentary state, 1 v 1 we are very fine but thats not PVP normaly. Yet buffs would make us to strong I guess. Dunno
  12. I see where u are coming from, I am a DPS specced Jugg but still use Taunt and Guard (gives marks afterall, eh? ;-) ) so I often end up rounds within the top 3 dd's whilst having up to 40k absorb and the most medals. Yet I have never ever in my 100 games or so gotten the MVP vote, even though I have also topped damage and absorb in the same BG's sometimes. Maybe they just don't like my name, dunno My feeling is, that it is mostly at random, I find myself very often in the situation after the BG ends that in those 15 seconds I have to stay I am way more interested in analyzing my data instead of the others, sometimes I check who healer and or absorbed the most but very often I just click a bad player because I wanna be done with it. So maybe there are just a lot of people doing the same. Anyway a strange and in my eyes intentionwise good idea but in reality realy frustrating tool.
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