Larudior Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I will make a analogy , when it comes to sports there is boxing 1 vs 1 then there's football 11 vs 11 these are just some of the examples the list could go on forever with the different sports that have their own set of rules etc etc , the point is they're different sports but sports nonetheless , the spirit of competition expressed in different ways. In my opinion it's the same with pvp duels arena wz's world pvp it's all pvp. Player versus player , is basically in my eyes any form interaction between players in which the opposing team or player can lose , but ofc we all have different definitions and views of things I'm not saying my view is better , just sharing how I see this from my perspective. Edited February 4, 2012 by Larudior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrknight Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Like always i will come and say arena is the WORST MISTAKE ever made in a MMO. Hope BW learn from Blizzard and dont make the same mistake over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I will make a analogy , when it comes to sports there is boxing 1 vs 1 then there's football 11 vs 11 these are just some of the examples the list could go on forever with the different sports that have their own set of rules etc etc , the point is they're different sports but sports nonetheless , the spirit of competition expressed in different ways. In my opinion it's the same with pvp duels arena wz's world pvp it's all pvp. Player versus player , is basically in my eyes any form interaction between players in which the opposing team or player can lose , but ofc we all have different definitions and views of things I'm not saying my view is better , just sharing how I see this from my perspective. I will make a analogy, there is "sport" and there is "war". Arena is much PvP as Golf if art of warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I also like the thrill of uninterupted combat. (pvp in vacuum) So I had an idea - why not allow friendly GROUP dueling? So up to 4 grouped people vs. up to 4 others. No reward, just fun. It would be a great way to test out new techniques and teamwork for warzones. It would be better than nothing at all. Edited February 4, 2012 by Stenrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KorwinOfAmber Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I also like the thrill of uninterupted combat. (pvp in vacuum) So I had an idea - why not allow friendly GROUP dueling? So up to 4 people vs. up to 4 others. No reward, just fun. It would be a great way to test out new techniques and teamwork for warzones. It would be better than nothing at all. There is such thing as Tatooine Ourlaws Den. People that preach about how they love small scale balanced pvp with friends (totally not for rewards!) for some reason forget about it each time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Learn to use apostrophes Sir. Arenas aren't dueling, they are structured deathmatches. Every class in the game has some sort of synergy with another class, which can be used to their advantage in a small scale PVP setting. 1v1 is dueling, as per the definition. A prearranged, formal combat between two persons, usually fought to settle a point of honor. Arena is not dueling. And proof you have already lost the argument, your first fall back was to be grammar nazi. You are dismissed with the rest of the duelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) There is such thing as Tatooine Ourlaws Den. People that preach about how they love small scale balanced pvp with friends (totally not for rewards!) for some reason forget about it each time. I didn't forget about it, I didn't even know it existed! I've passed questing in Tatooine and don't remember it mentioned. Maybe they should make it more known... Also I think my idea is a lot better than some "designated area." I think it should be able to be done anywhere, in the same way 1v1 dueling is. Especially since so many people are annoyed by traveling between planets. Edited February 4, 2012 by Stenrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khragon Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Funny thing is most people who want arenas wouldnt bother to assemble teams for it if it was for fun only and not rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zor-kai Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This. Also as I saw from Blizzard, they had such a hard time trying to make PvE and PvP balanced with Arenas implemented that it was causing chaos between PvPers and PvEers with nerfs/buff demands that it got out of control. Last I checked WoW still had 10million subscribers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumDeity Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think they should just add another WZ that is Team Deathmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reichmar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP. "Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well. The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button. It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed. So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP. Agree 100% I respect those who don't want an arena system. However arenas will not break Bioware's focus on PvE. They've admitted that. Many are just shortsighted and assume changes or tweaks or bugfixes are simply because of PvP. I'm not saying that arenas should provide their own gear, but even it they only gave a mount, or a weapon, or something else, they'd be a great addition. On a side note, many people can't accept that certain class/spec combinations aren't viable in every situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheticent Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Any type of arena implementation should have zero rewards beyond cosmetic items/titles. Mmo's are supposed to be centered around a group of people working together towards a goal not a couple people. Rated warzones make much more sense to continue to build that. WoW proved that arena gameplay was the best way to make your guild green chat and nothing more. More warzones, bug fixes, rated warzones, content and game balance should be the precedent. Before you post l2play you suck flaming, I was a high warlord/gladiator for cyclone battlegroup. Game on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Then Havoc Squad is extremely bad at Deathmatch, and wouldnt be a loss to the PvP scene at all. I would guess that even undergeared, theyd kick your silly *** all over Alderaan because they sound like the kind of people who understand that deathmatch skill is not the only PvP skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eschleepy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Because they come from WoW, and in WoW there was a very widespread - but very mistaken - perception that every single change to class mechanics and numbers was due solely to PvP. "Stop nerfing my PvE because of Arena!" was a very, very common cry from people. They usually ignored the fact that most changes were due to PvE concerns as well. The Warrior Shield Slam damage nerf was a good example. The PvE community whined and whined that their PvE was being nerfed because of PvP, even though Blizzard very clearly stated that they wanted to spread out Prot Warrior damage across their other abilities rather than having 80% of Prot Warrior damage in PvE come from one button. It's funny, because in general PvP balance and fixes were practically ignored by Blizzard. Legendary quality PvE items in PvP, Arena maps that STILL had serious terrain bugs (Feared into the wall again, yay...) and other issues that just never got addressed. So now we have these people in SWTOR, and they're just petrified of the idea of any sort of organized, competitive PvP because they still think that their PvE DPS/Healing/etc will get nerfed into the ground if anything happens in PvP. LOL Conceal ops says hi. Really? How can you even TRY to say pve players cry wolf over pvp nerfs? The first nerf out of the gate and it hit pve dmg while being stated that the nerf was intended for pvp dmg control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 yea because everyone is running a dmg meter knowing what their dps is? and yea nerfing a single move will not destroy a class in pve. there are plenty of other ways to increase lost dmg without added HUGE UNBALANCED burst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabidmongoose Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Was it me or was the OP's grammar and spelling so incorrect that it made his whole argument invalid and null. Edited February 4, 2012 by rabidmongoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eschleepy Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 yea because everyone is running a dmg meter knowing what their dps is? and yea nerfing a single move will not destroy a class in pve. there are plenty of other ways to increase lost dmg without added HUGE UNBALANCED burst Along with armor pen being reduced 20%. And yes, you get a pretty good idea when you actually run operations and sit there in a boss fight killing your own add with identical buffs for everyone and you take forever to kill your mob. Pretty sure everyone runs with a shift key thought on their keyboards..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenthum Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Last I checked WoW still had 10million subscribers... Last you checked was 2009, or the first 2 weeks of Cataclysm, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So I've been reading this post for quite some time (got to 20 page and got bored of same crap repeating all over) already and I noticed some things... Players that doesn't want arena in SWTOR are coming with some silly arguments that arena in WoW was all about a gear and fotm comps and they don't want the same thing happen to this game. As I can agree on the thing that some comps could counter other badly and it made worse players beat better players (skill wise) I cannot agree that arena in WoW was something about gear and ppl who says so were probably just terrible at arena pvp, but they didn't wanted to face the truth... the truth that they're just bad in that aspect of game and instead of trying to understand why they sucked and trying to get better, to improve their playstyle, their skill basically, they started to complain how arena is not balanced, how fotm comp + gear combination gets You to the TOP 10 which is total bullcrap. True, in last seasons of WOTLK there was many teams that got to glad with warrior/dk running with Shadowmourne, but even tho it's not like 1500 ranked warrior could team up with similiar skilled paladin and a dk to get to 2,6k rating, come on... It's clear that some comps were better in particular seasons, but it's not like You could get 3 random 1,5k guys to play fotm setup and get a glad... they wouldn't even reach 2k rating which is far far from gladiator. hmm in BC i played feral/rogue in arenas (rogues were one of the best classes to complement ferals back then). i had 2 years of pvp experience as feral and played with this rogue in pvp for years before arenas were introduced. we worked our butts off to hit 2k, which back in BC was just under gladiator (2.2k usually gauranteed you glad). fast forward to season 4. In order for me to pve, i was REQUIRED to get S4 feral pvp gear (not arenas fault mind you, that was just bad itemization on blizz part), so i switched to resto and picked up a random warrior to partner with. we managed to hit 2k easier and faster than i did as feral/rogue. now keep in mind: A. i had zero prior experience playing as full resto B. my resto gear was crap compared to my feral gear C. my warrior partner was terrible. didnt own a shield, never used defensive CDs, just picked one target and tunnel visioned the whole game. so to say that arenas werent imbalanced is probably the most asinine statement ever made in the history of mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swaggz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I would be all for Arenas IF they have no gear upgrades as rewards. Now, Merc Commendations as rewards I can live with since the only real way to get them is to use Warzone Comm's. Now I don't think they should be awarded in the numbers as WZ ones are...maybe 5 for a win/3 for a loss, but not much more than that. Now Arena only titles, mounts, pets, etc based on rating I can see as well. I wouldn't have anything against an Arena system if it was just set up as side game. I just wouldn't enjoy it if it was a full different route to get gear outside of WZ's and World PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) ..... care to explain why arena participation dropped by over 75% after BC? a very VERY small minority were arena players who actually played because they enjoyed it when wotlk was released. however, out of that small group who still played arenas, a good portion of them only do it for gear and nothing else. there is nothing wrong with enjoying arenas. i personally like objective based pvp with lots of people for maximum chaos factor (same reason why i like modern warfare 1 over any of the others because the PC used to support 64 player matches). some people like small team deathmatch. but sugarcoating the buffet of problems arenas introduced is not exactly winning any favors. Edited February 4, 2012 by Zilrota removed quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imer Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Last you checked was 2009, or the first 2 weeks of Cataclysm, then. http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png http://mmodata.net/ 11 milions people playing a game with high-end pvp based on arenas. We love arenas. You dont like them? Dont play, but we are a lot of people that enjoy them, so please, enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Mark my words, if there is no arena system implemented into this game pvp will die. No one is going to want to run dumb war zones over and over again. Arena is one of the best ways to let people show off their skill as well as add more to the game. Wanting there not to be arena only cheapens the game in terms of content and shortens the game's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westlywillis Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 and the reason why a lot of people quit WoW arena, including me, was due to the stupid *** hero class they added which basically destroyed arena. sorry if you cant get your rank high enough to get certain gear, but that is why bio has operationg for you to click the same 5 button rotation and kill a computer ever week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Mark my words, if there is no arena system implemented into this game pvp will die. No one is going to want to run dumb war zones over and over again. Arena is one of the best ways to let people show off their skill as well as add more to the game. Wanting there not to be arena only cheapens the game in terms of content and shortens the game's life. the majority of people dont like arenas for various reasons. it would be nice if the minority pro-arena crowd had something they enjoyed in pvp, but ever since arenas destroyed pvp in wow, im skeptical of implementing it when the risks far outweigh the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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