Ops/Scoundrels Test Server, are we useless?

[gazerous]

wow didn't know that Operatives just have 1 skill tree.

 

play the class and you'll quickly find out that scoundrels that use dirty fighting have a lot of issues in pvp, since our damage setup can be destroyed by 1 dispell that every scoundrel sage and commando have. Also dirty fighting tree against healers and sages is useless since they can just shrug it off and keep going so basically the light armored which is our prey can now /laugh and slowly kill us just for kicks.

 

Back to the scrapper tree, if this change go through well it would be interesting to play the class since now we actually will be like wow rogues who stun lock our prey and finger them in the *** for a bit before killing them just for kicks, those that are happy with the nerfs, you guys should realize you will still be killed by an scoundrel/op it will just take 2 seconds more and will give us time to /laugh /spit and /teabag you. Will be seeing all the whiners back on these forums when the good scoundrels and ops will still be getting the kills and dominating the WZs.

 

Also to those guys stating the numbers all those hits are crits so we have to crit you to hit that hard, that means that if we're lucky you'll die fast if we're unlucky then well we kill you slowly

Edited January 21, 2012 by gazerous

[Bovinity]

you guys should realize you will still be killed by an scoundrel/op it will just take 2 seconds more and will give us time to /laugh /spit and /teabag you. Will be seeing all the whiners back on these forums when the good scoundrels and ops will still be getting the kills and dominating the WZs.

 

Wait, which is it, guys? Will Ops be useless or still wrecking people? =D

[gazerous]

Wait, which is it, guys? Will Ops be useless or still wrecking people? =D

 

those that know how to play the class will be doing fine, yet those that rerolled FOTM OP/scoundrel class will be saying they are useless.

[SilverWF]

I love all the Ops claiming they just "get kited" and "do no damage out of stealth".

 

Obviously bad Operatives who only bound one attack because that's all they needed 90% of the time anyway. Maybe the reason why some of you guys didn't see how insane the class really was is because you never played the class very well to begin with.

 

A good Op/Scoundrel didn't just open with Hidden Strike and then stand there confused if their opponent moved. You're the equivalent of the Merc's who backpedal away for 4 seconds every time someone interrupts Tracer Missile because you didn't have anything else bound.

 

Another noob ^^

 

Hidden strike works only from behind and from stealth. Backstab - only from behind. TWO of our most powerful attacks requires a back and stealth!

Who in real bttle wil turn off from oper? Noobs? Good player will always turn to oper!

So, w/o stealth and against good player we lost our two attacks. And acid blade proc - coz it works only with that two attacks.

Then, what we have?

Shiv - 6 sec cd, laceration (req TA) and overload - w/o cd but too costly.

 

Wow! great! We have only less powerfull and costly attacks! great! 5-6 shivs and overload - near 10k damage, and no energy after that, AND NO ANY SAFE SKILLS! Great! Cool!

 

Stupid developers ><

[FalmeseReb]

QQ Scoundrel/Operative will still destroy most classes. They're actually upping their defense and the standard damage of Power Shot by 15% (more sustained damage).

 

The major nerf is 20% off Hidden Strike damage, the knockdown being reduced to 1.5sec, and 20% off armor penetration. Having permanent 50% armor penetration is stupid, being able to just destroy tanks, even though they're... tanks?

 

Hidden Strike is the most powerful skill in the game currently in terms of single-target damage and critical rate, it needed at least a slight damage nerf.

 

The knockdown nerf is because when you knock somebody down, the CC-breaker skill doesn't really help because it also takes them time to get up. When you include the time it takes the to get up even, it was closer to a 4.5sec stun, so now it'll be closer to 3 seconds.

 

Do you really think one skill should be able to crit for 7k, stun someone for 4.5sec where the trinket doesn't work and increase the amount of damage someone takes by you by 10-30%?

 

 

Half of an Operative/Scoundrel's skills are ranged, and all I ever see people do is gank and hide, gank and hide. They'll have 12 kills and 4 deaths or something, no group kills, no healing, and like 120k damage done.

 

I was breaking 200-250k damage on my low level Operative because I played it as a ranged/melee hybrid that could also gank/stun. You don't even know how much of an advantage having a ranged standard attack is over melee.

 

Telling people to play operative at range is honestly the stupidest thing i've ever read on this board. big deal, i can shoot base weapon damage from 30m away. how is that supposed to compare to a trooper, or a sorcerer that can destroy me at 30m range?. ohh wait thats right we have a vanish ability that is apparently supposed to be enough utility to account for not having a knockback, any defense, or sustained dps at all.

[Goreson]

Ok so i originally rolled a sorceror purely as i thought they looked great at end game, then i got to lvl 45 and realised everyone was now one and i hated being a sheep so i rerolled an op as they were a underplayed class.

 

So i get my toon to lvl 35 last night all exicted about hitting lvl 50 and my guid mate starts saying about op nerf, so i check it out and its true. So now my question is has anyone tested op dmg on the test server????? With no sustainable dmg, no knockback or sprint, are we now completley useless in pvp?? i really dont fancy making another character, its only been out just over a month and already there messing with classes. I really cant be bothered to go thru all the quests again ive just done 2 times in the last month already, so if anyone has news on how ops now are would be most gratefull

 

I never want to faceroll a class, as i have pvp skills and want to show them off, i totally agree that killing someone in 2 shots is stupid and was all up for a ops getting the opener nerfed, however they seem to have gone way OTT and nerfing other aspects to, being a burst class taking out clueless pvpers ina few hits is what they was intended for with squishy armour and no dmg after being unstealthed do we now jus take away 30% hp and die within 4 secs???? as troppers unleash a flurry on us as this will be no fun at all. I wanna be able to hold my own after being unstealthed and not feel like a training dummy as everyone downs me before i have a chance to even hit a key.

 

The really sad thing about this whole post is your 'whine' about not wanting to go thru all the quests again...

 

So, you created 1 Imperial character and levelled him up to lvl 45 but then noticed that everybody is playing that class and you don't want to be one of the 'sheep' so you started a new Imperial class and got that up to lvl 35.

 

That is 2 Imperial classes raised to lvl 30+ in 1 month of SWTOR being live (not counting early access).

 

I'll read that as you not being a casual gamer...

 

So, what's the problem in investing another 2 weeks to get another character up into the lvl 30+ range?

 

The grind of doing it all again?

 

Newsflash 1: Yes, a lot is overlapping between the classes i.e. open quests, general locations, but you still have a unique feature in each class and that is its storyline!

 

So how is that as an idea: stick to the class quests! I know, it'll take a bit longer and you will fail more often as potentially you've reached a quest in your story that you are at that time not strong enough for... but how about teaming up for that? And if not that, well, each killed monster still gives you XP so eventually you will be strong enough to solve that quest...

 

Newsflash 2: You know that aside from the Empire there's also the Republic?

 

Guess what: when you make a Republic character you'll get to play new quests!

 

And even better: as usually there are far more Imps on a server than Reps, well, congrats, as part of Republic you are no longer a 'sheep' (though you may be a 'lamb' but that's a different story...)

 

Anyways, don't go by what all the people are saying about OPs now being useless, test it for yourself!

 

And if you don't like it, well, maybe re-spec or wait until all of this has blown over and the OP once again 'fits into his role'. Latter should be easy as obviously you still have that lvl 45 Sorc... do you? I take it 'rerolled' doesn't mean you deleted that one so you could start your OPs with your favorite name and not have it tied to that sheepish Sorc?

 

And when all of that fails, well, as I said: the Republic accepts even the most whine-y Imperials

[Aidank]

It's a 20% nerf to shoot first, and 20% less armor reduction from flechette round.

 

 

The 1.5 seconds off of the stun should be a buff if anything, as it shouldn't fill our resolve bar meaning we'll be able to chain dirty kick with shoot first. (This needs confirmation)

 

 

 

20% less armor reduction is probably going to result in some 3-7 % damage nerf depending on the target's armor. It's hardly the end of the world

 

 

If you're level 35 then you don't even have any of the abilities that are being nerfed. Imo the nerf is a little bit too much but it isn't going to make the class unplayable or anything like that.

[Venilator]

Except sins do far more sustained damage.

 

 

Awesome.. Except Sustained damage in PvP is LOL USELESS. Hence why everyone is so butthurt about high burst damage abilities like Tracer Missles and say almost all of the SUPER burst capabilities of the Ops.

[RoccoStyla]

It is the worst nerf or class change I've ever seen in my life. They turned a class into a useless garbage. It is a assasin class guys get over it. But without utiliy and dmg ,and also some useless shield skills without sprint or etc, I prefer staying in the shadows.

 

I was gonna hit 50 soon but after the patch just enjoying pvp and do not think I will ever try to quest. Having fun till next payment then I am gone cause I will not pay to a beta test.

[Xippin]

You know, at first a guildy and I (Both scrapper spec'd scoundrals) were a little upset by the nerf, but today i decided to prove it's not the spec, but the skill. So, I went hybrid spec into Dirty Fighting.

 

http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/smuggler/scoundrel/#::f2df18e2f2ef2ef5e4fe3fefef2e4fef2efe

 

2/16/23

 

That spec there...

 

And you know what the result in my first warzone was? 472k dmg done, top damage by more then 150k. Second warzone, 432k dmg done, top damage again. Third warzone, 329k dmg done. And I did not use anything except the expertise buff in the WZ's...no consumables.

 

End result, the concealment spec itself may have hit hard, but bad players are still bad players and will continue to get rolled. I may not burst you down in 3 seconds, but I will still kill you without even trying.

 

My recommendation to the other operatives/scoundrals...give up the QQ'ing, the nerfs will make their rounds and as long as you were skilled to begin with, you will continue to be dominant in WZ's and open world pvp.

 

Unless of course, they decide to nerf dirty fighting as well...

[Mitchyslick]

NO utility what so ever. The sole purpose was hunting and killing fast. WZ:s will now be decided on which team has the least amount of ops/scoundrels.

 

Total BS imo. I can GUARANTEE YOU that 95% of the whine regarding Ops is because the people getting killed by ops in WZ:s think that the Ops are so damn overpowered, when infact there is 4 other guys dps:ing them as well. But since the Ops hand out the knockdowns and is standing right behind them - they get the "blame".

 

Honestly, BW should have waited and looked into the situation a while after the new brackets got introduced, or at least look at numbers - with a proper LOG. Now there is no way for the whiners of telling if "all that burst" actually comes from the Ops or ranged dps hammering them. They just blame the ops. OMG - LOTS OF INC DMG, OPS BEHIND ME, gosh darnED OPS!

 

Sure - Remove some burst, but without more utility that is BULL. Really weak, devs....

 

Way to not friggin go BW.

 

/end rant

 

Well actually it will be decided by who has the least agents/smugglers. Snipers are already gimped out in PVP, now operatives also.

[Mitchyslick]

Have fun quitting your "Operator" and desperately searching for the next FOTM class that you won't be any good at, either.

 

No I have a feeling, that most people that quit their OP after this nerf will probably just quit the game. For me personally thats it.

 

Instead of listening to level 12 whiners on the forums and nerfing classes, they should be fixing things like I don't know, making sure bosses in raid zones have loot? Giving me the ability to abandon quests? Making the game use my graphics card? Figuring out how they are going to fix Ilum? It goes on and on.

[Zherill]

I love it... seriously its amazing.

 

You had your opener reduced by 20%, i'll be fair here... instead of 5k you now open for 4k...

 

The 3 second stun (which was the biggest problem with Ops) has been halfed, so now you get 2 hits in before any retaliation instead of 3...

 

Acid blade armor penetration has been reduced, lets say someone has mitigation at 30% before you ignored half of that so damage mitigation became 15%, now however you will only ignore 30% of it, so that will be 20% mitigation.

 

Before nerf:

 

Open at 5k

follow with 3k

another 3k

 

most classes (except tanks) at this point are next to dead and dont require much effort to finish off...

 

After nerf:

 

Open at 4k

follow with 2.8k

 

Most classes will be around 50-60% HP and you will have to actually fight someone, who knows you may even need to use a medpac or even your heals before you can finish them off...

 

This sounds about fair to me guys, sorry but this nerf isn't OTT at all, not even close to it.

 

+1

 

This nerf isn't nearly as bad as everyone is making it out to be.

[EternalFinality]

Hey Ops - spoilers - you're a healing class.

[Lerdoc]

Yes you are useless. with -20% on insane opener you are no longer able to kill weak mobs, even in 8 man ops and advance class is locked out so you can't create it anymore.

 

This is how useless you are.

 

 

 

 

 

PS

Class will be fine, you'll now have to fight instead of faceroll, just like everyone else.

What is useless however is posts of numerous whiners like OP.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Lerdoc

[Safewayundrwear]

It's a 20% nerf to shoot first, and 20% less armor reduction from flechette round.

 

 

The 1.5 seconds off of the stun should be a buff if anything, as it shouldn't fill our resolve bar meaning we'll be able to chain dirty kick with shoot first. (This needs confirmation)

 

 

 

20% less armor reduction is probably going to result in some 3-7 % damage nerf depending on the target's armor. It's hardly the end of the world

 

 

If you're level 35 then you don't even have any of the abilities that are being nerfed. Imo the nerf is a little bit too much but it isn't going to make the class unplayable or anything like that.

 

So instead of a 1.5s stun it would be a 5.5s stun. I just don't see that happening. People would just whine more about the class and then it would get nerfed to oblivion. Although it would be amazing

 

I get the feeling this game is headed the same way Warhammer went. In a few months subs are going to drop like crazy.

[Aidank]

So instead of a 1.5s stun it would be a 5.5s stun. I just don't see that happening. People would just whine more about the class and then it would get nerfed to oblivion. Although it would be amazing

 

I get the feeling this game is headed the same way Warhammer went. In a few months subs are going to drop like crazy.

 

Well as far as I know, resolve is

 

Stuns : 200 x 1 second for every second stunned

 

mezzes: 100 x 1 second for every second mezzed

 

Displacements: 400 blanket.

 

 

Seeing as shoot first is a stun and a displacement, it counds as 200 x 3 + 400, which is 1000, filling your resolve bar.

 

 

if it's 1.5 second stun that should only be 700 resolve, meaning you could dirty kick afterwards.

[karcyon]

wow didn't know that Operatives just have 1 skill tree.

 

Yes, they 'destroyed' one, but we have two more. So we should be thankful and stop whining!

 

[MorgonKara]

There too many QQ boys at forums , they have no idea bout scoundrels/operatives and they still can talk about our class dynamics..

So bioware couldnt resist to em i guess eh ?

 

You do know that the developers have access to the actual numbers right? They can see how classes are balanced by looking at how they perform in-game with metrics. It's not "oh no someone complained about operatives on the forums, we better nerf them".

Edited January 22, 2012 by MorgonKara

[Acharial]

Of course, it will require more skill to play now than an endless knockback = dead.

 

The changes are barerly any nerfes It's minor fixing. Come over it guys! It's not that bad :3

[Goreson]

No I have a feeling, that most people that quit their OP after this nerf will probably just quit the game. For me personally thats it.

 

Instead of listening to level 12 whiners on the forums and nerfing classes, they should be fixing things like I don't know, making sure bosses in raid zones have loot? Giving me the ability to abandon quests? Making the game use my graphics card? Figuring out how they are going to fix Ilum? It goes on and on.

 

Seriously?

 

I'm not sure whether to say 'welcome to being a level [unknown] whiner' or just 'welcome to the reality of PC gaming'?

 

Guess what: I have played different classes and up into the 30+ range and more, and not only do I not have any problems with my 'graphics card' (which is an Intel GMA 4500 sharing some of the 8 Gig of RAM of my laptop ), I have also been perfectly able to abandon quests (ever tried picking up a datacron only to get the 'You must complete missions first' message? Quest list cleaned, datacron picked up, happy boy).

 

Bosses not dropping loot? Not experienced that (yet).

 

Ilum? Well, If there were enough ppl actually testing patches on the PTS...

 

So frankly, either understand that when you are playing a game on a PC you can potentially be one of the many/few that just happen to have a configuration that doesn't quite click with a(ny) game; it's natural... or do you expect that the game designer test their game on any possible configuration? Or write their own graphics driver for all the chip sets out there? Hope you won't be surprised if the price of a game then skyrockets from $50 to $100: obviously somebody has to paid for all the testing hardware and the not directly game related programmers...

 

or make sure that you really understand what options you have with your graphics card/its drivers because maybe just a bit of fiddling here or changing a setting there or just using the last stabil release instead of a beta release may resolve issues.

 

Or just go Mac or console...

 

But please, stop whining rather unspecific about your problems and maybe - instead - provide your problem information for analysis to BW!

[Abanoth]

Have fun quitting your "Operator" and desperately searching for the next FOTM class that you won't be any good at, either.

 

How hard do you think it is to reroll a sorc? And if it's a FOTM I don't have to be good at it, that's why it's FOTM.

 

On a serious note, PvP is gear-centric anyway, so I don't care about any nerfs/buffs because they'll only be a noticeable difference when I'm fully dec'd out in BM gear and thinking, "gee, I wish this centurion guy hadn't forced me to chase him down and kill him."

 

LOL@ balance in MMO PvP, it's always the same old story.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Abanoth