Operative Nerf is too much

[Tirithius]

IT'S NOT THE NERF THAT HURT US. IT'S THE FACT THAT WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE TO DO.

 

Welcome to sniper-ville.

[Lerdoc]

Natural gift I see now.

 

Base damage reduced=crit damage reduced.

50% of 100 is less then 50% of 200.

 

Seriously, no wonder so much whine threads from OPs/scoundrels, you people had no slightest clue on PVP and your class at all because of that one single IWIN button skill.

[Sheneria]

QQQ

 

learn to play your class, if its too hard then maybe reroll something else since you are not good enough it seams.

[Lerdoc]

Bro I think you play too much wow

 

Balanced pvp means whoever plays better wins

 

IF I have too have exact timing to win then so should he otherwise its NOT balanced

 

And guess what? If you don't play well enough you loose! If he managed to get a distance and you didn't managed to stop him from it while having all the means and tools to do it THEN HE PLAYED BETTER AND DESERVES TO WIN.

 

Next noob question please.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Lerdoc

[Chaos_Distortion]

Smuggler

 

 

Scoundrel

 

Flechette Round: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active.

K.O.: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds.

Shoot First: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP.

 

 

Imperial Agent

 

 

Operative

 

Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active.

Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds.

Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP.:

 

 

 

Those are the nerfs, they only needed to nerf the burst damage or reduce the stun duration on the opener, they did both.. It's an over done nerf that does not bode well for the future class balancing of the game. They also nerfed the armor penetration to 30%.

They might as well take out the talent that makes the opener a stun because no one will spec into it..

[furiousferret]

Natural gift I see now.

 

Base damage reduced=crit damage reduced.

50% of 100 is less then 50% of 200.

 

Seriously, no wonder so much whine threads from OPs/scoundrels, you people had no slightest clue on PVP and your class at all because of that one single IWIN button skill.

 

Keep thinking that Chief, Ops to be effective have to spend quite a bit of time out of stealth, our cloak can only be used 4-6 times a game, and when you play a good team there is so much aoe spam, sensors, and groupings that you aren't going to get free kills.

 

Keep thinking that because some guy killed you in a few seconds that they aren't going to adapt.

 

Just because Mike Tyson can knock you out in one hit doesn't mean he can't box.

 

Party up now, I look forward to your 'Operatives weren't nerfed enough thread' in a few weeks.

[Dietyz]

Natural gift I see now.

 

Base damage reduced=crit damage reduced.

50% of 100 is less then 50% of 200.

 

Seriously, no wonder so much whine threads from OPs/scoundrels, you people had no slightest clue on PVP and your class at all because of that one single IWIN button skill.

 

You try way to hard, a crit nerf and a base damage nerf are completely different since my ambush ISNT guarenteed to crit

 

Bro you can continue posting but im done with you its impossible to have a conversation with someone who doesnt even know what balance is id rather just go trash some noobs in hon pz

[Obie_Wan]

Basically youre saying that if I time a skill perfectly I can win otherwise I lose, and all he needs t do is hope that i dont time it perfectly and then he wins

 

thats not balanced

 

Timing is everything, even for other classes. The fact that you're whining about losing because you fail to time something, and let's be serious I have a Scoundrel too and the margin of error is just as big as it is for my Guardian and Commando, is totally telling of how much of leeway the class had.

 

It gave bad players like you the delusion that you were great players when in fact it was the unbalanced mechanics that were doing all the jobs for you. What's worst is that you baddies actually had the audacity to come onto the forums and claim other people are poor players.

 

There ARE recognizable good Operatives/Scoundrels. They're the ones that could still stay on you, good opener or bad, and CC you, heal you to make up for the muck up, and still kill you. They'll stick with the class and still make themselves the respectable threat they've always been.

 

The rest of you? Irony can be a real kicker. Perhaps its time you migrated to Assassins/Shadows?

[Sheneria]

id rather just go trash some noobs in hon pz

 

didn't know you can kill yourself in HON.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sheneria

[Dietyz]

Timing is everything, even for other classes. The fact that you're whining about losing because you fail to time something, and let's be serious I have a Scoundrel too and the margin of error is just as big as it is for my Guardian and Commando, is totally telling of how much of leeway the class had.

 

It gave bad players like you the delusion that you were great players when in fact it was the unbalanced mechanics that were doing all the jobs for you. What's worst is that you baddies actually had the audacity to come onto the forums and claim other people are poor players.

 

There ARE recognizable good Operatives/Scoundrels. They're the ones that could still stay on you, good opener or bad, and CC you, heal you to make up for the muck up, and still kill you. They'll stick with the class and still make themselves the respectable threat they've always been.

 

The rest of you? Irony can be a real kicker. Perhaps its time you migrated to Assassins/Shadows?

 

The thing that you need to realize is I dont lose to sors, but if my gaming friend had full champion gear I would lose to him because we are both top players in every game we play together, You call me bad when you dont know me at all p much every mmo/moba(notLoL) I try to play im good enough to play with competitive players

 

son i was a beast before i even had the game installed

[Ullikummi]

We all knew this was coming, the burst was definitely too much. It was "OP" -- I won't argue that.

 

However, the true reveal here is that Bioware has no f'n clue what its doing. To outright nerf the class without any compensation or buffs to any of its MANY weaknesses is just negligent and proves that BW is less concerned about class balance and more concerned about shutting up the forum.

 

This is a melee class that has low sustained DPS and low survivability. Punishing energy cost on its skills. No ability to break snares or close the distance between it and its target. It has no knockback, charge, grip, or speed burst to give it the mobile advantage or objective offense/defense supremacy. Our two "defensive" CDs are among the most pitiful in the fame and mitigate almost no damage at all.

 

I hope this patch isn't rushed out the door like all the others have been. Before this thing goes live they need to:

 

1. A direct damage buff to Backstab to compensate for the Acid Blade Nerf.

 

2. Take the 20% from Hidden Strike and spread it across Shiv, Corrosive Dart, and Lacerate.

 

3. Increase Evasion to 6 seconds and have it avoid all attacks. This should include knockbacks, grips, and charges. Since we are one of the only class that doesn't get one, we should at least have some defense against them. Also, change the talent to increase run speed by 100%.

 

4. Shield probe should be buffed. It is a 1.5k Shield Absorb on a 45second CD, it is embarrassingly bad.

 

-- These changes would help maintain our sustained damage output. It gives us a gap closer that is powerful and does other things, but is also on a much longer CD vs what other classes get. Lastly, it helps us survive PvP without being reliant on buggy as hell stealth mechanics.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Ullikummi

[Grandpappy]

@OP - I know...it's terrible only being able to 2 shot people...what was SWTOR thinking?

[Vesperr]

We all knew this was coming, the burst was definitely too much. It was "OP" -- I won't argue that.

 

However, the true reveal here is that Bioware has no f'n clue what its doing. To outright nerf the class without any compensation or buffs to any of its MANY weaknesses is just negligent and proves that BW is less concerned about class balance and more concerned about shutting up the forum.

 

This is a melee class that has low sustained DPS and low survivability. Punishing energy cost on its skills. No ability to break snares or close the distance between it and its target. It has no knockback, charge, grip, or speed burst to give it the mobile advantage or objective offense/defense supremacy. Our two "defensive" CDs are some of pitiful and mitigate almost no damage at all.

 

I hope this patch isn't rushed out the door like all the others have been. Before this thing goes live they need to:

 

1. A direct damage buff to Backstab to compensate for the Acid Blade Nerf.

 

2. Take the 20% from Hidden Strike and spread it across Shiv, Corrosive Dart, and Lacerate.

 

3. Increase Evasion to 6 seconds and have it avoid all attacks. This should include knockbacks, grips, and charges. Since we are one of the only class that doesn't get one, we should at least have some defense against them. Also, change the talent to increase run speed by 100%.

 

4. Shield probe should be buffed. It is a 1.5k Shield Absorb on a 45second CD, it is embarrassingly bad.

 

-- These changes would help maintain our sustained damage output. It gives us a gap closer that is powerful and does other things, but is also on a much longer CD vs what other classes get. Lastly, it helps us survive PvP with being reliant on buggy as hell stealth mechanics.

 

Trololol, you made my day, dude.

[HoosierDuke]

Im not a fan of scoundrels/ops ... but I have to agree with the OP ... this is a pretty MASSIVE nerf ... really seems a bit knee jerk to me, I hope they actually test this stuff.

[lorezd]

The Nerf is simply too much.

 

I wouldn't have much of a problem with any one of the nerfs on their own, but combined, it's completely over doing it.

 

I am in almost full champion with a few pieces of centurion and one missing piece of PvP gear. I have ~565 expertise.

 

The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS!

 

That doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I hit for about 1K with Hidden Strike. On a geared tank, I've seen as low as 927 follwed by 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.3k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. This is with Acid Blade.

 

Now, a straight 20% reduction in damage on Hidden Strike is a pretty damn large amount. Combined with the Acid Blade reduction, I'm scared to see what I'd hit for without crits. Add in the fact that we will only get a 1.5 second knockdown, and it's just wow...

 

The class might end up being completely useless in PvP. We don't have ANY of the utility that a lot of other classes get. They nerfed the only thing we had, opening burst, and they nerfed it significantly.

 

I haven't even mentioned PvE. I haven't done it much, so I don't know if it will make much difference there. Probably not being that fights are longer and you don't use your opener much.

 

Anyways, I think it was a huge mistake to ner so much all at one time. I cancelled my subscription. It wasn't even "rage quitting." It was more like, "If it's only been one month and they are making huge nerfs, I can't imagine what else is in store." I don't feel like rolling another class if Operatives do indeed become useless. I kind of just needed a reason to quit to push me over that edge and this was it.

 

And I called it a little while ago. I said they'd to Operatives exactly what they did in DAoC with Critblades - completely ruin them.

 

 

The story was good though, I'll give them that. Thank god I caught my subscription before it renews today.

 

 

EDIT: If Hidden Strike still completely fills the resolve bar, then the Jarring Strike talent becomes completely useless. There would be NO reason to ever take it. Instead, you could open with Hidden Strike and you'd probably get at least one more attack in before the person reacted. You could then stun them Debilitae and follow up with flash bang later.

 

They need to fix that if it's the case.

 

 

I agree with you. It really sounds like they went overboard here, especially considering that the level 50 bracket has been out for less than a week so class balance is still in flux as everyone gets gear.

I would say that Ops/scoundrels could use a bit of tweaking, but most of the absurd damage numbers you here about are against low level/undergeared targets with all damage buffs/biochem stims popped. I just watched a video of a guardian popping all his buffs and criting undergeard players for 9k+ with their aoe slam move. It's the buff stacking that seems to be the culprit here. Also, as you say, when fighting geared 50's the numbers are much less impressive.

 

They are already planning on eliminating the ability to stack all these buffs together which should reduce big damage numbers by a great deal. That combined with all these nerfs seams like overkill. I could understand tweaking a couple of abilities and see how it plays out but doing all these things at once is too much. Not to mention that a 20% nerf to armor pen will be a significant hit to pve dps and the jarring strike talent is now useless.

 

 

I feel that a bit more time was needed to see how the game develops as people get better gear and learn the intricacies of their class before such major changes should be implemented.

 

Not sure how much longer I'll be playing this game either. Most of my friends have already quit do to a myriad of bugs....fps/ability delay and a bit of a clunky feel in combat. This game definitely has it's moments though. Perhaps I'll be back in six months when they hopefully have things ironed out

[Gunzwei]

So what?! I'm merc. DPS class too. Full champ set. And I never expect to hit even on 4K. Why you should?

 

Merc can routinely hit for 4k+ damage with heatseeker when you have the buff/debuffs up. Unload in the same situation can do over 6k. This is without biochem.

[nodq]

/lol

 

My only hope is that the nerf is over the top, so all the crazy valor/gear gains attained through the broken class become meaningless.

 

Cheers

 

They could remove acid blade and hidden strike completly, i would still play the class. get some clue, and remove your ignorance please.

 

what REALLY annoys me, is that there is no "nerf" to BHs/troppers with their ranged 1 button mashing ******** where they do lots of more dmg than every OP/scoundrel and at range... its just stupid, i feel like i am at WoW all over again balance patch wise.

[lorezd]

Double post. Edited January 21, 2012 by lorezd

[caultonpos]

In Aion they screwed the assassin over in a knee jerk. Its the stealth everyone complains about - they are surprised and not prepared so flounder around like wet frogs while we carve em up. L2P.

 

So now in Aion the assassin cant kill anyone.

 

I'm not playing a game where the developers are COMPLETELY CLUELESS on how to create a PvP game.

[xilecorb]

Sweet I might roll one now thier not OP and FoTM. Edited January 21, 2012 by xilecorb

[Sookster]

On my healing spec oper, I'll still knock you down on your face, I'll still stun you, and I'll stay stealthed while following a teammate of mine and pop out to spike heal when needed.

 

Start learning to use the defense abilities IA/smugg gets.

[Sookster]

Merc can routinely hit for 4k+ damage with heatseeker when you have the buff/debuffs up. Unload in the same situation can do over 6k. This is without biochem.

 

And how long does it take for them to setup to that?

[Bovinity]

There ARE recognizable good Operatives/Scoundrels. They're the ones that could still stay on you, good opener or bad, and CC you, heal you to make up for the muck up, and still kill you. They'll stick with the class and still make themselves the respectable threat they've always been.

 

This.

 

It was already night and day fighting against bad Ops/Scoundrels and good ones. The ones here crying that Hidden Strike was all they had were the ones that stood there confused if someone lived through the stun. You're the ones that were talking trash on the forums all this time thinking you were actually a decent PvPer because one button did most of the work for you.

 

You're just like those Merc's who stand there confused and do nothing for 4 seconds when someone kicked Tracer Missile because that's the only button you knew how to use.

 

Of course, this is also why it's hard to balance PvP. You get the good players who turned some classes into insane killing machines and will still be good after the nerf because they used their entire toolbox, and then you get JohnnyForumPoster who only bound Hidden Strike and is now confused as to why his class is getting a nerf. Can't work around em both.

[Daeth]

So how many of these Operatives have actually tested the changes on the Test Server before writing these 'ITS TOO MUCH' posts? None you say?

[Daeth]

They could remove acid blade and hidden strike completly, i would still play the class. get some clue, and remove your ignorance please.

 

what REALLY annoys me, is that there is no "nerf" to BHs/troppers with their ranged 1 button mashing ******** where they do lots of more dmg than every OP/scoundrel and at range... its just stupid, i feel like i am at WoW all over again balance patch wise.

 

I was also surprised that the cheap Tracer Missile / Grav Round specs werent touched.