Operative Nerf is too much

[gunnerforever]

I play a scoundrel, when I first saw the nerf notes, i respecced a healer and started down that path. It wasnt until after the nerf, when I saw shoot first no longer filled the resolve bar, that i respeced back.

 

Overall, im pretty happy, I can still dish out some serious damage.

1. Open from stealth (increase armour penetration, inflict bleed)

2. If you have time throw in a back blast

3. Restealth then instantly open again (more damage with previous armour penetration)

4. You still haven't filled the resolve bar, so dirty kick.

5. blaster whip/sucker punch/back blast etc rinse repeat if needed.

 

Using this with appropriate buffs(relics/stims/adrenelin) and unless you get really unlucky with crits, you can kill most players without them getting a single move off.

 

the problem arises of course when you need to escape and you've used your restealth, but if your enemy's playing as a team you should be too,

 

I find in general, if I use my head, and use stealth to my advantage for objectives, I can still pull out poll position in most WZ's, or at least get a good collection of medals.

 

Again, this. I'm full sawbones, as I have always been, and i get 120k dmg and 80k healing each WZ. Post nerf. Shut up you *********** haters, if you wnat to stay OP roll a *********** sage and shut the **** up.

[Eyepopper]

Nerf more. Not -quite- there yet.

 

nonsense. the nerf brought scoundrel/op in line with everything else. you, like the OP, need to L2P. even though i am usually at the top of the boards, i can still be beaten or scared off by a good player.

 

notice i said "good player."

[Daedricshots]

That will teach you to roll something other than a Sorc/Sage.

 

that made me lol

[covu]

We're doing fine too nice damage-wise, my only major gripe is that Knock Out/Knock Down bug

[Bosseking]

As a gunslinger I still don't stand a chance against them. I'm fully champion geared rank 60 with few centurion parts and operatives can still kill me without me being able to do anything. On top of that burst they have dodge (100% dodge for white damage for 3 sec) which shutdowns me completely for the duration. I have the same skill but obviously it's useless against yellow damage which is basically everything operative does.

 

I know the rock paper scissors pvp is like this and I'm sure operatives cannot kill some other classes as easily as they can gunslingers / snipers, but it seriously sucks when the absolutely only thing you can do against a certain class is to throw all your cc and pray you escape alive.

 

Imagine how bad it was before the nerf for us.

[Kadaris]

idk why all the other ops were freaking out about the damage nerf. i knew we needed a nerf. killing people was just 2 easy at the time. the only thing that worried me was the knockdown nerf but once the nerf came and i saw that it no longer gave the victim a full resolve bar i was fine with it. im still top 3 damage in WZs most of the time and if i need 2 stun them again then i ill just use my other stun because they will no longer have a full resolve bar. im still killing people but its also more challenging and fun

all the people that are complaining about the nerf are bad players that dont get the easy insta-kills they are used 2

[Ekemeister]

People seem to believe that an assassin's role is to take a player from 100% to 0% in one to two rotations. That simply isn't so. Assassins are supposed to aid in bursting down softened targets, distracting nukers, and shutting down fringe elements so that nearly dead people don't subtly return to a scuffle and shut down your team.

 

Usually mmo's allow assassin roles to completely dps a squishy into oblivion if the squishy has no real defense or at the expense of the ganker's restealth and two or three of his offensive buffs.

 

If you're an operative and you want an easy way to gank people, roll with your friendly neighborhood sith assassin and focus his targets.

 

edit: by "assasin" i meant melee, stealth dps nukers.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Ekemeister

[Kaluah]

That will teach you to roll something other than a Sorc/Sage.

 

^ so much win its almost a loss.

[sinnes]

i have a mixture of rakata, columni and champion pvpgear. shootfirst! blam non-crit 1300! backblast! blam non-crit 900. ops im dead. this class sux so much right now. if you take away our openers, give us something else! dont just take it away. awfully painful to play this class now. ok if u got full BM u can prolly do good anyways.

[Malice_Nihilim]

Well, tbh that's the only Thing Operratives/Scoundrels have. They need to get the first hit. Yes, they are OP in 1v1 and yes, they can kill you or drop you to 30% in a Stun. But like i said, that's the only thing they have. They really are amazing against unorganisted people :/ If you react and keep eyes open there they can't do anything. A Stun, a Rescue on the attacked Teammember or Guard completely destroys them.

 

Now Bioware needs to buff them to be able to compete with Guardian/Sentinel. They need a Gap Closer, asap.

 

EDIT: No, i'm a Sage. I got killed plenty of time by an Operative. But not in my Premade. Guard, Rescue, some Heals and the Operatives are just useless. You can kite them to death, like really, they are so kiteable :S

 

Also the funny thing is that they didn't nerf Juggernaut/Guardian. 7k AE Burst isn't op? Like what the hell.

 

Don't have anything else.......Yeah, Flash Bang is useless, sleep dart pointless, debilitate not effective, Knockdown not existent.....Oh wait, a self absorb shield and avoidance shield to make sure they can cream there target in 1 v 1 without an insta kill opener....oh and they need to leave after all that? Cloaking Screen and gone, to pick there target carefully again and hunt them down, or run into the endzone and unstealth to score, or whatever.

 

Yeah, the Op and the Smuggler is completely crushed because you can't make a target explode on contact.....*rolls eyes*

[Malice_Nihilim]

i have a mixture of rakata, columni and champion pvpgear. shootfirst! blam non-crit 1300! backblast! blam non-crit 900. ops im dead. this class sux so much right now. if you take away our openers, give us something else! dont just take it away. awfully painful to play this class now. ok if u got full BM u can prolly do good anyways.

 

dude, I do that damage currently on my Op at 34 in open world where there is no bolster....You just trying to invent numbers now?

[HomelessJ]

Awwww, cant kill people in 3 seconds now? aww poor baby...l2p pl0x

[sinnes]

dude, I do that damage currently on my Op at 34 in open world where there is no bolster....You just trying to invent numbers now?

 

try hitting the imps on our server and u will see lol

[gofortheko]

Cant put face on keyboard, and roll back and forth to win, then vanish before someone can kill you ...awwwww poor guy.

[Brimestar]

The Nerf is simply too much.

 

I wouldn't have much of a problem with any one of the nerfs on their own, but combined, it's completely over doing it.

 

I am in almost full champion with a few pieces of centurion and one missing piece of PvP gear. I have ~565 expertise.

 

The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS!

 

That doesn't happen every time. Sometimes I hit for about 1K with Hidden Strike. On a geared tank, I've seen as low as 927 follwed by 1.2k, 1.3k, 1.3k on backstab, shiv, and lacerate. This is with Acid Blade.

 

Now, a straight 20% reduction in damage on Hidden Strike is a pretty damn large amount. Combined with the Acid Blade reduction, I'm scared to see what I'd hit for without crits. Add in the fact that we will only get a 1.5 second knockdown, and it's just wow...

 

The class might end up being completely useless in PvP. We don't have ANY of the utility that a lot of other classes get. They nerfed the only thing we had, opening burst, and they nerfed it significantly.

 

I haven't even mentioned PvE. I haven't done it much, so I don't know if it will make much difference there. Probably not being that fights are longer and you don't use your opener much.

 

Anyways, I think it was a huge mistake to ner so much all at one time. I cancelled my subscription. It wasn't even "rage quitting." It was more like, "If it's only been one month and they are making huge nerfs, I can't imagine what else is in store." I don't feel like rolling another class if Operatives do indeed become useless. I kind of just needed a reason to quit to push me over that edge and this was it.

 

And I called it a little while ago. I said they'd to Operatives exactly what they did in DAoC with Critblades - completely ruin them.

 

 

The story was good though, I'll give them that. Thank god I caught my subscription before it renews today.

 

 

EDIT: If Hidden Strike still completely fills the resolve bar, then the Jarring Strike talent becomes completely useless. There would be NO reason to ever take it. Instead, you could open with Hidden Strike and you'd probably get at least one more attack in before the person reacted. You could then stun them Debilitae and follow up with flash bang later.

 

They need to fix that if it's the case.

 

It's not enough...

[haterglowstick]

I can tell no one in the past two pages has played a high level pvp geared op or scoundrel.

 

Misconceptions I *KEEP* seeing being repeated by people that have no clue what is going on and therefore shouldn't be posting in this thread:

 

1- Operatives and scoundrels DO NOT burn people down in 3 seconds or 3 hits post 1.1 in a like geared situation. OF COURSE operatives of scoundrels will burn down an opponent if they are fully championed and the opponent is a new 50. Expertise counts for a lot. guess what happens when a tank spec'd jug with bm rolls up on a new 50. They go down like your whore gf.

2- All operatives/smugglers that are complaining are nub PVPers and need to L2P because they can't kill people in "2 shots" now. Many are PvEs that have been dropped from their raid because their PvE sustained dmg is now worse despite before being among the lowest of any class. I don't see how smug/op sustained dps is in any debate horrible and needs to be fixed down the road. Many are also complaining about utlity. Debilitate and sever tendon are really the only useful utility skill operatives have and sever tendon is situational. Since 40% of the community is a sorc...vanish is really worthless. Anyone that says vanish is majorly useful should be disregarded because they haven't a clue how to play this game. Operatives can't cure anything but physical and tech dots so good luck vanishing...for a second. Every other class has a gap closer that needs one. A nerfed opener (with incredible restrictions considering that this is a team game not 1v1) combined with the worst sustained dps and hardly any utility. Sounds legit...

3- That operatives and scoundrels are unplayable now(in pvp). This couldn't be more wrong. Granted imho they are technically harder to play than any other class (I've played 11 of the 16 classes for at least 30 levels in beta and launch) and have a lot going against them (especially in huttball), they are NOT unplayable. Anyone that says op or smug is a faceroll 3 button class is an idiot. Beside that obvious fact, if you are a competent player you should be able to beat a majority of the players out there, because imo 90% of the pvpers out there are not just average they are BAD. Plus, in addition to the nerf we did get the giveback of jarring strike not filling the resolve bar. This makes us less useful overall but a bit more useful to our team. I DO agree that no serious raiding guild should be running an operative or scoundrel. Its just stupid and you're hurting you're own dps. Run a sniper or GS for the buff and the increased sustained dps.

 

I dont have the heart to go on with the examples I've seen in this thread. You get the picture.

 

tl;dr people in these forums are mostly retarded.

Edited February 4, 2012 by haterglowstick

[Bizwolf]

I can tell no one in the past two pages has played a high level pvp geared op or scoundrel.

 

Misconceptions I *KEEP* seeing being repeated by people that have no clue what is going on and therefore shouldn't be posting in this thread:

 

1- Operatives and scoundrels DO NOT burn people down in 3 seconds or 3 hits post 1.1 in a like geared situation. OF COURSE operatives of scoundrels will burn down an opponent if they are fully championed and the opponent is a new 50. Expertise counts for a lot. guess what happens when a tank spec'd jug with bm rolls up on a new 50. They go down like your whore gf.

2- All operatives/smugglers that are complaining are nub PVPers and need to L2P because they can't kill people in "2 shots" now. Many are PvEs that have been dropped from their raid because their PvE sustained dmg is now worse despite before being among the lowest of any class. I don't see how smug/op sustained dps is in any debate horrible and needs to be fixed down the road. Many are also complaining about utlity. Debilitate and sever tendon are really the only useful utility skill operatives have and sever tendon is situational. Since 40% of the community is a sorc...vanish is really worthless. Anyone that says vanish is majorly useful should be disregarded because they haven't a clue how to play this game. Operatives can't cure anything but physical and tech dots so good luck vanishing...for a second. Every other class has a gap closer that needs one. A nerfed opener (with incredible restrictions considering that this is a team game not 1v1) combined with the worst sustained dps and hardly any utility. Sounds legit...

3- That operatives and scoundrels are unplayable now(in pvp). This couldn't be more wrong. Granted imho they are technically harder to play than any other class (I've played 11 of the 16 classes for at least 30 levels in beta and launch) and have a lot going against them (especially in huttball), they are NOT unplayable. Anyone that says op or smug is a faceroll 3 button class is an idiot. Beside that obvious fact, if you are a competent player you should be able to beat a majority of the players out there, because imo 90% of the pvpers out there are not just average they are BAD. Plus, in addition to the nerf we did get the giveback of jarring strike not filling the resolve bar. This makes us less useful overall but a bit more useful to our team. I DO agree that no serious raiding guild should be running an operative or scoundrel. Its just stupid and you're hurting you're own dps. Run a sniper or GS for the buff and the increased sustained dps.

 

I dont have the heart to go on with the examples I've seen in this thread. You get the picture.

 

tl;dr people in these forums are mostly retarded.

 

This is almost all right except we need nothing in my opinion. But I don't play this char in pve at all except I used to heal but my Sorc is better for the team for that.

[LimbSlicer]

This was a very good thread>>>>

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=262987

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Will this thread I am posting on be closed also?

[Baalzamon]

Awwww, cant kill people in 3 seconds now? aww poor baby...l2p pl0x

 

Coming from a sorc the easiest class to play.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Baalzamon

[JohnnyLawless]

Yay. PvP's class superiority ebb and flow is now based on forum QQ. Thanks Blizzoware! I mean... what?

 

If you plan on sticking with this game I suggest you roll a Ret Pala... ahem... Marauder or Sentinel because you'll be money in the third expansion.

[Swaggz]

I'll agree to a point that the stuns can be a bit much for an OP/Smug, BUT that doesn't mean they should be nerfed into the ground. I think that ONLY the stuns need to be toned down (longer CD's etc), BUT that is the ONLY thing I think that needs to be toned down. If that "nerf" is going to affect their viability, then yes, I think other aspects of their game should be increased to make up for this "nerf" so they can stay more rounded in PvP.

 

Unfortunately I don't know much about Ops/Smugs, so any Ops/Smugs that can give a better breakdown on what should be toned down/increased it would be greatly appreciated.

 

Yes, I know that some of you will nerd rage out at the previous question, but SOME people who play a class will actually be honest about what needs to be toned down/increased to stay well-rounded in a PvP/PvE situation. Contrary to popular belief, some people would acually PREFER to play a well-rounded class than one that is OP in certain situations. It makes things more fun/challenging.

[Treplos]

I'll agree to a point that the stuns can be a bit much for an OP/Smug, BUT that doesn't mean they should be nerfed into the ground. I think that ONLY the stuns need to be toned down (longer CD's etc)...

 

 

Ollo! Do you know how many stuns Operatives have?

 

1- Jarring Strike: Applied by Hidden Strike, melee range (4m), "hard" stun, 1.5s duration, used only once from stealth.

 

2- Debilitate: Melee range (4m), "hard" stun, 4s duration, 45s CD (or 30s Cd with 2/2 in Slip Away, but those 2 points are often better spent in Incisive Action, especially considering how restrictive Tactical Advantage mechanics are).

 

3- Flash Bang: Medium range (10m), AOE blind affects up to 5 targets for 8s, breaks on dmg, 1 min CD.

 

- Sleep Dart: Range: 10 m, almost unusable in PVP, and gives full resolve bar. So, it does not really count. Why?

 

Sleep Dart: Puts the target to sleep for 60 seconds. Damage will break the effect prematurely. Only usable from stealth and only usable on targets not in combat. Only one target can be incapacitated at a time. Does not affect droids.

 

 

Those are all the stuns that we have. Now list me what other classes have and you will see the difference.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Treplos

[ARMofGod]

The Nerf is simply too much.

 

Yes! Hitting sorcs for 500 damage is utter crap. EA screwed up yet again.

[ReFlexionn]

OP is mad cuz he can't 2 shot ppl anymore

[Ekemeister]

I can tell no one in the past two pages has played a high level pvp geared op or scoundrel.

 

Misconceptions I *KEEP* seeing being repeated by people that have no clue what is going on and therefore shouldn't be posting in this thread:

 

1- Operatives and scoundrels DO NOT burn people down in 3 seconds or 3 hits post 1.1 in a like geared situation. OF COURSE operatives of scoundrels will burn down an opponent if they are fully championed and the opponent is a new 50. Expertise counts for a lot. guess what happens when a tank spec'd jug with bm rolls up on a new 50. They go down like your whore gf.

2- All operatives/smugglers that are complaining are nub PVPers and need to L2P because they can't kill people in "2 shots" now. Many are PvEs that have been dropped from their raid because their PvE sustained dmg is now worse despite before being among the lowest of any class. I don't see how smug/op sustained dps is in any debate horrible and needs to be fixed down the road. Many are also complaining about utlity. Debilitate and sever tendon are really the only useful utility skill operatives have and sever tendon is situational. Since 40% of the community is a sorc...vanish is really worthless. Anyone that says vanish is majorly useful should be disregarded because they haven't a clue how to play this game. Operatives can't cure anything but physical and tech dots so good luck vanishing...for a second. Every other class has a gap closer that needs one. A nerfed opener (with incredible restrictions considering that this is a team game not 1v1) combined with the worst sustained dps and hardly any utility. Sounds legit...

3- That operatives and scoundrels are unplayable now(in pvp). This couldn't be more wrong. Granted imho they are technically harder to play than any other class (I've played 11 of the 16 classes for at least 30 levels in beta and launch) and have a lot going against them (especially in huttball), they are NOT unplayable. Anyone that says op or smug is a faceroll 3 button class is an idiot. Beside that obvious fact, if you are a competent player you should be able to beat a majority of the players out there, because imo 90% of the pvpers out there are not just average they are BAD. Plus, in addition to the nerf we did get the giveback of jarring strike not filling the resolve bar. This makes us less useful overall but a bit more useful to our team. I DO agree that no serious raiding guild should be running an operative or scoundrel. Its just stupid and you're hurting you're own dps. Run a sniper or GS for the buff and the increased sustained dps.

 

I dont have the heart to go on with the examples I've seen in this thread. You get the picture.

 

tl;dr people in these forums are mostly retarded.

 

bro, you're point #1 basically reiterates my post, while insulting me.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Ekemeister