-Rinzler- Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well if this game was about dueling ide agree, but it isnt. The operatives roll was to hit the enemy hard and weaken them. They have no other utility. Now that they are bursting the same as assassins and have less sustained dps, and no utility, there is no point in playing one. Assassins are supeior in every way. Enjoy you commando killing goals in 2012, they will own the turret and doors maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The WoW clone is complete kneejerk % buffs in the wrong places with 0 compensation for the parts of the class that are lacking. Also... *thinks about the Frost Mage and rogue pre Cataclysm* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I know, and that's why I cancelled Sure you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Don't do it Bioware. Take off some damage from hidden strike and some armor pen. from acid blade? Fine. but a 1.5 sec knockdown really isnt a knockdown. that's barely long enough to see they were knocked down. The delay between pressing a key and the response in game is near 1 sec. Not to mention the eternity of the GCD makes the knockdown nonexi.... Why am I even saying this? Why are we playing this game? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xippin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Did you really think that i thought you were under lvl 10 Yeah i have played the Operative in game testing 3 month befor the game launched so i know the class and the other classes well. Btw i'm a valor rank battlemaster ingame myself in full champ gear saving up those battlemaster commendations.So i do have a clue about game balance in TOR.Just the fact the devs are making changes mean the class was clearly OP as they can see from the numbers on their systems.And they know more about this then me and you. But, the numbers they see, are the same numbers we see. To include the videos of the guardian hitting for 10k+ single target and 8k+ to 4 people at the same time (8k per person hit with a 5.5k on a 5th person) which I have re-posted several times, the shadow doing 6k+ white hits along with 7k yellows, and the sentinel doing 8k+. The problem isn't that Ops/Scoundrals hit too hard, it's that Ops/Scoundrals are noticable because they faceplant you before they hit you that hard, so you have nothing to focus on except that one person that has you face down in the dirt as they stab/shoot you in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saprezzan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) But, the numbers they see, are the same numbers we see. To include the videos of the guardian hitting for 10k+ single target and 8k+ to 4 people at the same time (8k per person hit with a 5.5k on a 5th person) which I have re-posted several times, the shadow doing 6k+ white hits along with 7k yellows, and the sentinel doing 8k+. The problem isn't that Ops/Scoundrals hit too hard, it's that Ops/Scoundrals are noticable because they faceplant you before they hit you that hard, so you have nothing to focus on except that one person that has you face down in the dirt as they stab/shoot you in the back. You don't see the same numbers - you don't have access to various graphs, studies and data collected from all game servers. Hell, you don't even have a combat log... Edited January 21, 2012 by Saprezzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izariel Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Operatives need to stop crying. The nerf was absolutely necessary. They are still going to do insane burst. They still have stuns, they still have great damage and if the heat is on, just stealth away... EASY. Just stop crying about the end of the world and adapt. L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delekii Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you're saying that it's completely fair for operatives to come up on someone who has full HP and 3 shot them within 5 seconds before that player is able to respond in any way? Congratulations on taking a single sentance out of the post, and replying with a post that ignores the rest of the post quoted entirely. I very specifically said that the lack of sustained dps is not justification of burst that is too high, but that a nerf to burst REQUIRES a resulting buff to sustained. In the VERY post that you quoted, though you removed that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dariuszs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My main issue with this is that we will be even more useless on that *********** huttball map. It's such a ridiculous map. Atleast with our high burst we were somewhat useful killing healers and ball carriers between being knocked down all the time. Now we won't have even that and be BY FAR the most useless class on huttball. Not very fun considering it's played at least 60% of the time on my server for empire. They could've at least given us some increase utility in exchange for nerfing our damage. Oh well, guess I'll just reroll a sorcerer and spam lightning+knockback all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayse_Harker Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Is this in the patch notes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leszor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I liked the question actually WHY someone should play a sc/op over a shadow/assasin now? I mean, same burst, less sustained, less utilities Bioware just has no clue, but please continue listenin to headless chickens on the boards, burst+stun was indeed stupid but this was just the worst possible way of acting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modernpreacher Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The Operative problem was fixed when they fixed buff stacking. Sure it was crazy when you had them double red buffed + adrenals + relics. Now? To nerf them more is stupid. I play a heavy armor wearer, and they barely dent me as it is. Anyone shielded laughs at them. They have no sustained damage. Looks like they aren't getting any sustained either. Bioware really has no clue how to balance the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Murder Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The MOST I crit for right now in the 50's bracket using adrenal/stim/relic/warzone buff is about 5.6K. Without all those buffs stacked, my crits probably average somehwere around 3-4K. Backstab is doing about 3K and lacerate about 2.5k. I don't think that's too much considering those are CRITS! . Can't decide if you're trolling or... You're complaining about 5.6k crit? Or about 3-4k for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aandolas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 The sad part is most of these scoundrels/ops don't realize that their most powerful PVP spec isn't even the popular 3 shot spec... You should do a little research and see what a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel can do in a warzone... Putting up dmg and kill numbers far above any other class... But because so much noise was made about 3 shotting people very few of the FOTM rerollers have even tried Dirty Fighting or its Operative equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warkat Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well, tbh that's the only Thing Operratives/Scoundrels have. They need to get the first hit. Yes, they are OP in 1v1 and yes, they can kill you or drop you to 30% in a Stun. But like i said, that's the only thing they have. They really are amazing against unorganisted people :/ If you react and keep eyes open there they can't do anything. A Stun, a Rescue on the attacked Teammember or Guard completely destroys them. Now Bioware needs to buff them to be able to compete with Guardian/Sentinel. They need a Gap Closer, asap. EDIT: No, i'm a Sage. I got killed plenty of time by an Operative. But not in my Premade. Guard, Rescue, some Heals and the Operatives are just useless. You can kite them to death, like really, they are so kiteable :S Also the funny thing is that they didn't nerf Juggernaut/Guardian. 7k AE Burst isn't op? Like what the hell. lawl you said you need a buff to compete with sentinels....buhahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaentom Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) The sad part is most of these scoundrels/ops don't realize that their most powerful PVP spec isn't even the popular 3 shot spec... You should do a little research and see what a Dirty Fighting Scoundrel can do in a warzone... Putting up dmg and kill numbers far above any other class... But because so much noise was made about 3 shotting people very few of the FOTM rerollers have even tried Dirty Fighting or its Operative equivalent. Im sure its no different than lethality is for ops (ie. ok for pve, terrible for pvp) lawl you said you need a buff to compete with sentinels....buhahaha Guess your unaware that geared sentinels/marauders/juggs/gaurdians are actually the best classes in the game, followed immediatelly by powertechs and sorcs/sages. Edited January 21, 2012 by Phaentom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastix Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 flashbang, vanish, SLOW, grenades, hell even autoattack... are no gapcloser?are you ops really serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietyz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) flashbang, vanish, SLOW, grenades, hell even autoattack... are no gapcloser? are you ops really serious? once a sorc force sprints away how does a operative catch up to him? you have dots on you so vanish isnt going to do much the answer is you get kited and you die, once a sorc gets distance on a op he has to run away and los or die edit: in your post it seems that you dont know what the word "gapcloser" means, it means charge, sprint, or any other mechanic that brings you close to your target when theyre far away Edited January 21, 2012 by Dietyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pherenice Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Some classes needs burst but bringing people down in 1 stun is ridiculous, people who dint see this comming are blind. No class had this burst only the ops/scoundrel. Welcome back to earth and enjoy your stay with us mortals. Maybe they need that cup of L2P themselves now, as they told us many times L2trinket lawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfhourofpower Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 People who think their OP class is fine and everything is balanced and say things like 'the opening burst is all we have!' are so ridiculous. First off, lets just take a look at our opener. I call it the everything button. It does high damage, puts a high dot, cc's and gives us a 50% armour penetration buff. Most of you silly folks think you're just good when you're face rolling everyone, the fact of the matter is that the class is so easy to play that a kitten could succeed. As for gap closers, what. There is -always- something to LoS a ranged with. -always-. If they start kiting you just LoS and wait for stealth or wait for them to derp over and smash their face in. If you try to close the gap by running towards them you sort of deserve death and to be kited. If there's more then one you should always die. I played scrapper for a while but it was so easy and I knew a nerf was coming so I switched to sawbones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aribethx Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 once a sorc force sprints away how does a operative catch up to him? you have dots on you so vanish isnt going to do much the answer is you get kited and you die, once a sorc gets distance on a op he has to run away and los or die edit: in your post it seems that you dont know what the word "gapcloser" means, it means charge, sprint, or any other mechanic that brings you close to your target when theyre far away I think he was referring to ranged attacks that slow the target down, thus allowing the op to reach them and close the gap. Personally, ops don't need to have every tool in the PVP toolbox. Let them roll hybrid heals, or experiment with specs to find utility. Or find new roles in hit and run concealment, instead of their pure 1v1 ownage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You don't see the same numbers - you don't have access to various graphs, studies and data collected from all game servers. Hell, you don't even have a combat log... What numbers, pray tell, are Bioware using dear heart? It has barely been a full three days since the buff stacking shenns were axed. How can 48 hours be enough to determine whether or not any class needs to be nerfed? Short answer: it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EwoksKing Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Guys, me cant no longer play my character with my eyes closed, *** Blizzard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrechor Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Well, tbh that's the only Thing Operratives/Scoundrels have. They need to get the first hit. Yes, they are OP in 1v1 and yes, they can kill you or drop you to 30% in a Stun. But like i said, that's the only thing they have. They really are amazing against unorganisted people :/ If you react and keep eyes open there they can't do anything. A Stun, a Rescue on the attacked Teammember or Guard completely destroys them. Now Bioware needs to buff them to be able to compete with Guardian/Sentinel. They need a Gap Closer, asap. EDIT: No, i'm a Sage. I got killed plenty of time by an Operative. But not in my Premade. Guard, Rescue, some Heals and the Operatives are just useless. You can kite them to death, like really, they are so kiteable :S Also the funny thing is that they didn't nerf Juggernaut/Guardian. 7k AE Burst isn't op? Like what the hell. Probably because we actually have to fight in order to gain the crit chance and damage buff to Force sweep, and where the hell to you get 7k AOE burst from?? That is an extreme rarity, and being honest I've never seen a JK/SW get anywhere near a 7k crit, Ive had a 5.4k crit but on average I hit for 4-4.5k. Oh and we cant cloak, or flee from a fight when it gets too tough. Whence JK/SW didnt need a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlhaas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Guys, me cant no longer play my character with my eyes closed, *** Blizzard? I can still play my Sorc just fine.....not sure if serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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