TheRealBrave Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Clearly you do not PvP solo much. Trying to get a ragtag bunch of Imps to actually focus on objectives in a Warzone is about as hard of work I've seen. Actually I really get a sense of what Special Ed Teachers must have to go through on a daily basis. I didn't hate on the person either, I merely play devils advocate. Would you prefer people get the 2nd tier of PvP gear handed to them in the first week of playing at 50 with ZERO Valor requirement? Nope. My complaint is the RNG factor of it. It is an UNFAIR system. The opposite of what you claim to desire. I would like the system to take some time and effort, and you get rewarded for the time you put into the game and the skill that you have. Not some scratch off nonsense. I'm not saying make it free welfare purps for everybody like WoW I just hate the RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) God forbid people can put hard work into a hobby, that is not at all a plausible idea. "Hard work" into video games. Do you know what hard work is, what about manual labor? How often do you break a sweat playing a video game? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Hard work and TIME are two different things, learn the difference. Edited January 21, 2012 by TheRealBrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BegaTasty Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just to make you feel worse, I'm valor rank 22 and have a full set of both dps and tank champ gear. cheating an exploiting the spawn points isnt pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) "Hard work" into video games. Do you know what hard work is, what about manual labor? How often do you break a sweat playing a video game? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Hard work and TIME are two different things, learn the difference. You're right, all those fat nerds playing "e-sports" tournaments are just putting in time. No effort, no work. Only time increases your chances of winning, not memorizing abilities and animations for all classes, spending hours doing flashpoints to min/max your gear/crafts, organizing groups, learning tricks for your own class, try to be a leader in the ops channel in warzones to get people to say "inc" etc etc... Silly us, all we need is more time in the game and it will all come to us naturally. Edited January 21, 2012 by Dreadspectre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You're right, all those fat nerds playing "e-sports" tournaments are just putting in time. No effort, no work. Only time increases your chances of winning, not memorizing abilities, spending hours doing flashpoints to min/max your gear/crafts, organizing groups, learning tricks for your own class, try to be a leader in the ops channel in warzones to get people to say "inc" etc etc... Silly us, all we need is more time in the game and it will all come to us naturally. I'm sorry but what do e-sports have to do with The Old Republic? Are you making a living playing The Old Republic? Are other e-sports relevant to this discussion? Hm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadspectre Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "Hard work" into video games. Do you know what hard work is, what about manual labor? How often do you break a sweat playing a video game? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Hard work and TIME are two different things, learn the difference. Bolded. I talked about video games(SWTOR included.) Gnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealBrave Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bolded. I talked about video games(SWTOR included.) Gnight. Yeah, I'd walk away too after making an entirely irrelevant point about e-sports (LOL TOR and e-sports in the same argument). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaevin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm Valor Rank 57 and I'm still missing the offhand. I finaly got the weapon at Valor Rank 54 and a guildie who's Valor Rank 29 has every single piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Not sure if people do this, could be a huge rumour could be true or lucky on my part. I average about 75% for champ gear and JUST got my last tiered piece (still missing ear and a trink slot, but those aren't tiered.). I have about 4 weapons and at least double on every tiered piece except for legs. But try opening your bags when you are in an ops group (like when you are in a warzone). I have read but didn't believe it and opened about 4 bags outside of a WZ and got Cent only, bags I've opened in WZ average about 80% drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larees Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Just to point out the obvious, the GRIND is not the problem, the randomness is. The main argument some ppl defend this system with is that of course, you shouldnt be able to get full gear within a week. It really should take time. But random means that some people did get their full gear in a week. Actually I'm one of those. Compared to pretty much everyone I've played warzones with on a regular basis, I had some great luck with gear. The bags have been dry for the past 2 weeks but hey... Point is, I'd rather get 1 piece a week of my choosing then 7 pieces 1 week and then 0 for the next 5. Which is what this system is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiozo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I raged so hard becuase of this so I had to resub just so I could unsub again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 people who are grinding pvp are opening battlemaster bags, the champ bags are basically a stop gap right now due to the earliness of the game, add another month and their real purpose, a lucky dip for casuals who spend an hour or so doing a cpl pvp quests a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnVl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There's some immense logic fail here by many posters - just because you have had worse luck than someone else doesn't mean the RNG system is ok. What's problematic with the RNG system is that it is completely out of an individual's locus of control - this is an important driver for motivation and continuity. When you feel that events are no longer impacted by your efforts and it's completely reliant on probability, you stop trying, which in certain cases leads to people unsubbing. Some may say "well just play more" - but for normal people with normal schedules, time is a scarcity. A system should have a finite goal in sight (say 1000 commendations for one piece of gear), that way people can make an estimate on how long it will take to obtain their gear instead of being discouraged by poor luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shucksy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Boo hoo, I played another game where there were 60% chance 'recipes' and failed 18/20, each taking far longer to obtain than a pvp bag does here. I don't see the problem really, it makes things more interesting, especially when you get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnVl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Boo hoo, I played another game where there were 60% chance 'recipes' and failed 18/20, each taking far longer to obtain than a pvp bag does here. I don't see the problem really, it makes things more interesting, especially when you get lucky. Case in point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crothius Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 "Oh noez the brand new game is still fine tuning all of its systems????? WWTFF?! I mean really... why hasn't there been an expansion yet??!?!!?" - Troll Seriously though, if things weren't still broken this early on, I would suspect black magic was involved. People need to calm down and stop trying to have the best of everything so quickly. Relax and enjoy this time when you don't still have the best gear available in the game, because I have a strong feeling that the first expansion is a LONG way away. Or you know... you could rage quit and leave the game over something dumb, freeing us all of your presence. Either way works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indelible Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) To be perfectly honest, I think that the Champion's Bag RNG loot distribution is possibly the single worst example of game design in an MMO I have come across in the last decade. I genuinely think that the designer who developed it is inept, and really needs to listen to the community on this issue. It baffles me how such a wildly unpopular method of loot distribution can just be blindly maintained despite widespread complaint and objection. I can understand to a degree why Bioware Austin are so arrogant about it all; some of the devs there are perhaps some of the most talented and diverse developers the gaming industry has to offer. However the community is full of people who want to love this game. Patch 1.1.1 goes a way to fixing the FEW major issues with the game that are pretty much universally reviled by us players. Sadly Champion's Bags seem to have missed the boat yet again. If it was a simple case of porting the Battlemaster's Bags over to a fixed currency system, why couldn't they have done it at the same time as flipping Champion's Bags as well? When I PvP, I PvP hard. I frequently top damage, kills, medals, sometimes healing if I'm playing to the objectives particularly. I really don't feel like I'm getting awarded for any of that. I may as well go in, afk, and not really contribute because - even though I often make a significant impact on the game as a whole - I find that when I come out of a warzone with enough commendations to purchase a bag... I invariably end up with Centurion Commendations, or duplicate gear. PvP loot distribution really does feel like I'm being punished because I PvP. I feel like I'm being encouraged NOT to PvP. It's really not a pleasant feeling. Today was a particularly amusing day. For the past 8 days or so I've been opening roughly 3 bags a day. That's 24 bags. Out of those 24 bags I just got duplicates of gear I already have (more precisely, 2 more gloves (now 4), 1 more Focus (now 5), and 1 more head piece (now 3). Today, I had my dailies as well as my weekly wz quest to complete, which I did, and I also went out and ground Ilum. I got another bag from wz whoring, which brought me up to 6 bags. This is how it went: First bag I opened - 1 commendation Second bag I opened - 1 commendation Third bag I opened - 3 commendations Fourth bag I opened - 1 commendation Fifth bag I opened - 2 commendations. At this point I was in a position where I needed to do a couple more warzones before I could get the last Champion's Bag for the day, but luckily I had enough commendations to fill in a glaring whole in my PvP set. I picked up the Centurion bracers, and went on my way. Got the last bag, really hoping for a good end to the day: Sixth bag I opened - 1 commendation, 1 Force-Master's Bracers. Whilst I certainly got to pick up and additional piece of gear, I was dismayed that I had dropped my commendations on the Centurion Bracers. I really did feel like the game had just given me a rather harsh and rude slap round the face. I didn't PvP for the rest of the night. I couldn't bring myself to. The thought that I could spend a few hours grinding out another bag, only to get the typical 1 commendation was really off-putting, and made me quite frustrated. It should really be apparent to the developers now that the loot bag system is not working. I think they are aware of this as well, otherwise they would not have altered Battlemaster's bags. Whilst it's all well and good maintaining that you'd like to ensure steady and paced gear progression in the game, which is understandable, it's not OK to continue on with a system so reviled and so degrading. It's not OK to award PvP effort with a loot bag that cost 3 hours and all of my commendations, and then have that reward obstruct me more by throwing in horrifically small drop rates and a most tedious RNG system. In reality, where we all live... or some of us at least, the entire loot system needs to switched over to a more stable and moderated fixed currency system. I wouldn't even mind if it takes me longer to get the gear; I'd just like to be able to focus on the end goal. I'd like to be able to say, "this is how much I need, this is how much I have, and this is how much the game will reward me, so it'll take me this long to get the next piece." I'd like more choice as to what items I purchase and when. I'd like to be able to put effort in and be rewarded for that effort with a currency that allows me to go to a vendor to buy a PvP item of my choosing (that is relevant to my Valor rank, btw ;o). I'm not going to stoop to begging. All I'll say is that - if the ability delay is really fixed in the next two months - it really is the only thing left that is directly inspiring the thoughts of abandonment I feel towards SWTOR. I think that's pretty much true of everyone who PvPs as well. Here's hoping Geof gets round to making a post on the issue. If they are going to keep the system, I'd really like to know WHY they are intending to keep the system, and why they won't switch to a more robust and rewarding system for the plaers. Edited January 21, 2012 by indelible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haajib Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 lmao thats like being hit with a hammer to the ********s 20 times XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvsdead Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 this needs to stay bumped so people can see how terrible this system is. sad part is that i, and likely many others, have had worse luck than this dude - much worse luck. this guy totally got a good yield even with the duplicates :/ i never get anything any more it seems and that's ultra disheartening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Sookie Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You guys have barely started to PvP and are crying about not being full champ. Laughable. There are several battlemasters on my server that still don't have full chamption gear. Take you ADD/ADHD medecine and calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petipasjp Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I honestly wish they kind of put it back to the way WoW used to do it or something like it where you can just buy certain gear for credits when your a certain rank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 i have gone through a stretch of 30 bags with nothing but comms. ive also gone through a stretch of getting 10 items in 11 bags. thus is the nature of the RNG beast. HOWEVER, i now have full champion gear except for a bracer and a pair of gloves. ive been in that situation for over a week now, and ive probably opened around 15-20 bags. ive gotten 2 relics, 2 pants, helmet and 2 belts. all duplicates. whatever way this RNG monster is programmed, it should be weighted appropriately to greatly increase the chance of getting something that is not a duplicate. i have been fortunate to get basically a full set of gear. i know others have had much worse luck. bioware needs to reexamine this system when they have the time and go back to a traditional time invested = rewards method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocorras Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 At least you got gear, and a lot of it b4 you even hit rank 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixxkruppel Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Getting pvp gear is so EAsy mode in this game, the RNG is only complainable if you open 80 bags and get 1 token or something. The OP's video, just lol. You wouldn't last a week in Aion. Getting one token from 5 bags on average (even if they are duplicates), means you'll be rolling in 80% full pvp gear in a week or two. Edited January 21, 2012 by wixxkruppel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fdzzaigl Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I feel for that guy, but at the same time, he's not really that high in valor either. I'm only about to hit 50 and am valor rank 32, not too far off from his rank (38). I definitely don't expect to get full epic gear after a couple of days of farming at 50. The problem is just that people have no control over what happens. They should work out some system where you are assured of a piece once you've done XYZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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