ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Coming from a Juggernaut, after I begin a new character and made him a Sentinel I got this ability from the get go called Rebuke. The Empire version is the Cloak of Pain but has anyone ever felt this ability might be just too good? 20% damage reduction against all attacks and lasts as long as 30 seconds, that's half it's cooldown time. And it's not like Sentinels/Marauders don't get Saber Ward which is a 50%/25% damage reduction ability. In PvP it would be even better to be a Sentinel/Marauder due to the fact that armor is not that important but damage reduction against all types of damage is more important. And let's not forget Sentinel/Marauder does more damage than Juggernaut/Guardian. My Sentinel goes through enemies alone and comes out with at least 80% of his health still intact without a healing companion. On one side he kills fast enough to not take too much damage and that 20% damage reduction prevents him from losing too much health. Sometimes in Flashpoints/Heroics my Assassin (Dark Charge) and Juggernaut take more damage than the Marauders. Edited January 21, 2012 by ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaeTakbae Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 OP, prepare to get flamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yillin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Coming from a Juggernaut, after I begin a new character and made him a Sentinel I got this ability from the get go called Rebuke. The Empire version is the Cloak of Pain but has anyone ever felt this ability might be just too good? 20% damage reduction against all attacks and lasts as long as 30 seconds, that's half it's cooldown time. And it's not like Sentinels/Marauders don't get Saber Ward which is a 50%/25% damage reduction ability. In PvP it would be even better to be a Sentinel/Marauder due to the fact that armor is not that important but damage reduction against all types of damage is more important. And let's not forget Sentinel/Marauder does more damage than Juggernaut/Guardian. My Sentinel goes through enemies alone and comes out with at least 80% of his health still intact without a healing companion. On one side he kills fast enough to not take too much damage and that 20% damage reduction prevents him from losing too much health. Sometimes in Flashpoints/Heroics my Assassin (Dark Charge) and Juggernaut take more damage than the Marauders. 1) we get medium armor, you get heavy 2) Saber ward does not reduce damage by 50%. It gives us a 50% chance to dodge, deflect, etc. In the long run, yes, this may equate to a 50% damage reduction, but in the 12 seconds time it is up, it doesn't mean we are going to deflect half of all attacks directed at us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaeTakbae Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) 2) Saber ward does not reduce damage by 50%. It gives us a 50% chance to dodge, deflect, etc. In the long run, yes, this may equate to a 50% damage reduction, but in the 12 seconds time it is up, it doesn't mean we are going to deflect half of all attacks directed at us. Also Saber Ward does not reduce damage from Force and Tech attacks. What I wrote is a lie ignore it. Edited January 21, 2012 by ChaeTakbae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystonez Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Cloak of Pain gives a marauder similar if not slightly better damage reduction to a dps spec juggernaut. The difference is that it's an activated ability and regardless of it's "potential" uptime it's not always there vs a juggs constant reduction. If you compare a marauder to a dps jugg the marauder hands down has better defensive/offensive oriented cooldowns as well as better options to dps, but juggs have superior group utility. Any jugg spec can aoe snare spam, taunt, gaurd if in defensive stance and juggs get force push and saber throw. That and a jugg can be a legit tank with solid hard/soft cc options. Marauders are all about dps and their playstyle and cooldowns reflect this. Juggernauts "can" dps, but they are not quite as optimal at this even though they can do similar damage. Marauders basically tunnel a target down. This is why marauders with pocket healers terrorize people. Juggernauts can do great damage, but you'll get the most out of one by utilizing your aoe snares, taunts, force push etc besides just focusing damage on a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Also Saber Ward does not reduce damage from Force and Tech attacks. Pretty sure it gives 25% mitigation against force/tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Also Saber Ward does not reduce damage from Force and Tech attacks. http://www.torhead.com/ability/5TCbWzd/saber-ward 25% Force/Tech damage. OP has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaeTakbae Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) http://www.torhead.com/ability/5TCbWzd/saber-ward 25% Force/Tech damage. I'm sorry I was thinking about the deflects. Didn't know it had that second part. Edited January 21, 2012 by ChaeTakbae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midee Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 http://www.torhead.com/ability/5TCbWzd/saber-ward 25% Force/Tech damage. OP has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Nothing to see here. Right as I was about to post it. Nerf Kiba. ~Midy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) 1) we get medium armor, you get heavy 2) Saber ward does not reduce damage by 50%. It gives us a 50% chance to dodge, deflect, etc. In the long run, yes, this may equate to a 50% damage reduction, but in the 12 seconds time it is up, it doesn't mean we are going to deflect half of all attacks directed at us. I would trade heavy armor for 20% damage reduction that lasts 30 seconds with a 1 min cooldown and medium armor. Juggernaut aside which I decided to leave on the shelf for now. Assassins have to dps in melee in light armor... with no 20% damage reduction. So the only way they can survive is use Dark Charge... but that really collected threat when they're not the main tank. Edited January 21, 2012 by ROMUBOTHUGORUGOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepilk Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Rebuke/CoP is easy to get around though. If it were a 30 second buff itd be one thing, but it requires incomming attacks to constantly reset itself. If you just stop attacking for a few seconds, or use a CC/Knockback/Knockdown to occupy the target for a few seconds it goes away and never hindered the attacker. It "can" last 30 seconds..but it usually doesnt outside of PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappus Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I would trade heavy armor for 20% damage reduction that lasts 30 seconds with a 1 min cooldown and medium armor. Juggernaut aside which I decided to leave on the shelf for now. Assassins have to dps in melee in light armor... with no 20% damage reduction. So the only way they can survive is use Dark Charge... but that really collected threat when they're not the main tank. I wouldn't because I prefer to have 20% internal resistance extra at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaarsa Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Rebuke/CoP is easy to get around though. If it were a 30 second buff itd be one thing, but it requires incomming attacks to constantly reset itself. If you just stop attacking for a few seconds, or use a CC/Knockback/Knockdown to occupy the target for a few seconds it goes away and never hindered the attacker. It "can" last 30 seconds..but it usually doesnt outside of PVE. Cloak of pain with 30 sec uptime and 60 sec cd gives on average 10% dmg reduction. Cloak of pain with 6 seconds uptime (so your enemy stops attacking you when he notices cloak) and 60 sec cd is on average 10% dmg reduction (if you are not kited all those 6 seconds, but being kited as marauder is completly different story than usefulness of cloak). Basicaly, they will either hit you and give you your 10% dmg reduction over 1 minute, or stop attacking you and still give you the same. Win-win sitiation;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeritas Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) Cloak of pain with 30 sec uptime and 60 sec cd gives on average 10% dmg reduction. Cloak of pain with 6 seconds uptime (so your enemy stops attacking you when he notices cloak) and 60 sec cd is on average 10% dmg reduction (if you are not kited all those 6 seconds, but being kited as marauder is completly different story than usefulness of cloak). Basicaly, they will either hit you and give you your 10% dmg reduction over 1 minute, or stop attacking you and still give you the same. Win-win sitiation;) But the usability of cloak directly correlates with the ability of enemies to cc/knockback you. There a quite a few ccs that lasts more than 6 seconds, but break on dmg, perfect for a situation like this.( This way CoP averages on 1/10 uptime=> 2% reduction overall ) And overall armor IS a strong mitigation stat. Because most skills are mitigated by armor. There a some skills that deal internal/elemental dmg, but the majority deals kinetic/energy dmg, which is mitigated by armor. So on average juggers doe have a better survivability. Marauders make up for it with kind of a "burst" survivability if you combine your cds or chain them. But cds wont save you from most openers (at least i cant predict the future^^) or dmg taken while stunned. Thats fine imo, Marauders can easily focus a single target down, and survive long enough thanks to their cds, but they dont have as much group utility as juggers do. And for the PvE part, it seems you aren't higher than lvl 30. Because after this, you will need your def-cds nearly every fight with silver and higher. As well as your interrupt and Vanish to drop the aggro at you companion if needed. Thats why i liked leveling as a marauder^^(I'm leveling a sentinel atm for the story^^)You need to be aware of your cds all the time and need around ~20 keybinds for leveling. Without our defcds i think Marauders/Sentinels would be totally broken for leveling an pvp, even in raids they are quite usefull. Edited January 21, 2012 by Temeritas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniGanon Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Juggernauts get leap to friendly, knockback, leap cd reset on knockback, taunt, aoe taunt, aoe snare, Saber Throw and Guard... really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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