Community Blog: Ilum PvP issues

[Olympic]

They need to totally remove/change the objectives. They are one of the major sources of lag and freeze frames. Those constant drop ships are huge system drags.

 

And the system spam of who controls an objective. It is another huge source of lag and freeze frames. Not only is it unnecessary, you can't turn it off. A simple color coding of green/red on the map will easily show who has control of any given objective.

 

And what is with the system spam (that you can't turn off) announcing where everyone is? Take all fun of the hunt out of the game much? Get rid of that feature and begin to save some semblance of open world pvp in Ilum.

 

And for the Ops Leaders, "companion has been dismissed" spam much?

[Chevalrose]

@

but there´s no arguing when you don´t want to understand that a player is not responsible to question himself for everything he does

 

Another strawman argument. Quote the person who said a player has to question everything they do.

 

I'll hold my breath in the mean time.

 

hmm shall I wonder is this a bug a bad implementation or an exploit?? Hmm let me guess...

 

My offer remains. If you would like to publicly state that you cannot differentiate between an enormous game breaking bug that thousands of players were well aware of and a bad implementation, you are free to do so.

 

 

like I explained I DID question myself and thats why I SUBMITTED a ticket so you´re trying to blame me for being a greek and being a trojan at the same time. Decide yourself.

 

I'm honestly trying to figure out what you just said. But..

 

If you questioned it, submitted a ticket, and then exploited the bug, that's bad. If you questioned it, submitted a ticket, and didn't exploit it, that's good.

 

Not everything you think is wrong is ACTUALLY wrong.

 

We're not talking about minor nuanced stuff here. There is no way a normal human could see what was happening and think "This may be OK to do..". It was obviously a bug and people were exploiting it for great gains.

 

But anyway like I told you I want to enjoy a game , not question myself every five minutes if what I´m doing is legal or not.

 

No one is asking you to question yourself every five minutes. They're asking you to make a mature and moral decision regarding a very obvious, and very exploitable, bug. That you are so on the defensive suggests you are more culpable in this than you are letting on.

 

Want a fix? Test your game before releasing it and if something is illegal immediately release a post stating it but we all knot neither happened.

 

Poor excuse. Bugs happen. Exploiters happen. Bans happen. Time to be responsible.

 

silly or not I do have the RIGHT to ask it, if you´re not happy with it you can just get away, but again you are trying to blame me for both doing illegal stuff AND for trying to understand if it´s legal or not. You must have a thunderstrom going on in your head right now.

 

It's caused by how you write your posts.

 

Regardless, it obviously wasn't a planned implementation, thus your question is silly in nature. It creates a ticket that their support department has to actually look at and take the time to delete. I sure hope they ignored it, as you suggest they did.

 

And finally are you REALLY telling all of us that ganging up on one member of the opposing faction is illegal?

 

Obviously not. When you camp a spawn (that you're not even supposed to be in, per game design) and kill players who haven't zoned, that is called exploitation. This whole "camping isn't illegal" is a red herring.

 

Or would you rather tell me that I should complain if I go to Ilum alone and I get killed by 10 members of the opposing faction?

 

If they were in your spawn, where they are supposed to be insta-killed, aoeing spamming you as you rez (and killing zoning players), then yes, that would warrant a reasonable complaint.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Chevalrose

[Brad-]

BTW, for those of you who say "they should be fixing bugs instead of banning people", it is obvious you do not understand MMOs.

 

The people who investigate cheaters and exploiters are not the same people who program updates and fix bugs. The time involved in investigating, resetting Valor, and banning people will not affect the programers work on bug fixes at all.

[Agenteusa]

If you questioned it, submitted a ticket, and then exploited the bug, that's bad. If you questioned it, submitted a ticket, and didn't exploit it, that's good.

 

Look, I´m getting tired of this conversation. First of all if you would have read my posts thoroughly you would have understood by now that I mentioned I didn´t participate in such actions and I even condone them.

 

Any further comments I made on it are simply based on the fact that i DON´T agree on players being punished based or bugs or whatever you wanna call them that developers make.

 

Furthermore you are no one to judge if a comment is silly or not. I can remember varied exploits in other mmo´s that people got punished for and you couldn´t tell it for miles away they were exploits. And that to me is wrong.

 

And if I´m silly does that deprive me of my rights of playing this game or ask any questions about things I have doubts of now does it?

 

And if you don´t understand what I wrote it´s clearly because you put no effort into trying to understand other points other than yours and maybe we can just tag you as a troll.

[Agenteusa]

The people who investigate cheaters and exploiters are not the same people who program updates and fix bugs. The time involved in investigating, resetting Valor, and banning people will not affect the programers work on bug fixes at all.

 

And what backs up your claim?

 

Or is it just the fact that you claim you understand mmo´s?

 

And yes, at the state the game is probs it would even be worth sticking the commercial and the support department fixing bugs since I honestly don´t know what they´re doing...

[_Melle_]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=233561

 

They are farming each other right now.

 

Do something already!!!!!!

[Agenteusa]

Gla you came up with that post m8.

 

Hopefully it will show fanboys what´s really wrong .

 

Though I feel they will keep coming with "It´s not an implementation issue"...

[Brad-]

Though I feel they will keep coming with "It´s not an implementation issue"...

 

No one has said Ilum was implemented well. I, for one, feel kill trading, show not be allowed.

 

But that really begs the question. The issue of this thread is the people who abused the poor implementation, and the fact that they should face the consequences of their actions.

[Agenteusa]

No one has said Ilum was implemented well

 

Chev did say on multiple occasions this wasn´t an implementation issue.

 

I don´t think kill trading should be allowed either. No issue there.

 

I do however think people are doing this because Ilum represents a joke atm and you have nothing to do besides doing what has been done lately.

 

If it´s broken remove it, fix it and come back strong with it. It´s clearly the best way to solve these issues.

 

Bottom line is I (like many ) feel the game has too many bugs and problems and as such it´s indecent to say the least to punish people when clearly devs don´t even know what to do to fix those issues. That is the real problem atm. Bear in mind I enjoy the game and if

 

I´m saying this because I want the game to prosper and if the pvp in Ilum was fine I

would be the one to say to ban all exploiters asap. Why? Because I see exploiting as an easy means to an end even when you have legit alternatives. The alternative in Ilum atm? None. You would just wander there waiting for your time to get ganked and vice versa to a point that one of the factions would never set foot in Ilum anymore (as it´s happening in some servers already).

 

So to make it clear:

Do I condone exploiting? Yes I do.

Do I think players should be banned when so many things are clearly horribly implemented? No.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Agenteusa

[Brad-]

So to make it clear:

Do I condone exploiting? Yes I do.

Do I think players should be banned when so many things are clearly horribly implemented? No.

 

You condone exploiting? I think posting that can get you banned from the forums.

 

Hmmm ... or was it a Freudian slip ?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Brad-

[vizionblind]

farming and exploiting continues. /fix

[Agenteusa]

Ofc it was a typo, I meant Condemn.

[Steelslinga]

i don't think Illum can be saved to be honest , 1st it was both sides working together to get dailies done , then it was full on pvp madness... while trying to run around and gather some lame item for the daily.. whats next?

 

maybe when u go into illum pvp zone a RTS quiz will pop up and if you answer wrong u die ?

hell if iknow.. but at this point unless they have a GM babysit that pvp zone i think it's always going to be a mess.. i really can't see how it can be fixed.

[jvaughn]

I just think its funny to see all the crying about a pvp areas and as far as i can see it is mostly the republic crying about being camped in their base. First of all try get a group together and come out of your base and fight instead of comming out and attacking one of us then all of you run to your base so you can pull us in with your abilities so we die insatantly and think its funny. You republic are know different then the alliance on WOW use your bases and guards to win your pvp battles but yet complain that sith or horde are not fair. Tired of hearing it. If you don't like the pvp stay to the rp and pve servers so you can raid till your hearts content. It takes us forever to get the illum daily and weekly done because republic hides and dosn't seem to really try on my server atleast don't know how it is on other pvp servers but don't take this to heart its just my opinion.

[Scan]

Why is exploiting something considered bad?

 

ex·ploi·ta·tion (ksploi-tshn)

n.

1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: exploitation of copper deposits.

2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.

3. An advertising or a publicity program.

 

We exploited the situation to the max, so what?

 

To be honest the gains made on that day are being wildly over inflated.

 

I earn more valour everyday than I did that first day. The amount of valour I have now aquired dwarfs what i got, (i think i got 4-5 levels from 44-49)

 

Im still only lvl 55 so its not like its game breaking, thing is the Republics are being farmed like a resource everyday, we just sit there fishing them out one by one.

 

~It must be such a demoralising game as a republic.

[Bagns]

As i would like to point out the RULES OF CONDUCT, well mostly the one that is causing so much uproar on the forums about banning and so on. So like the good person i am, i took the time to look up this rule. Enjoy this i know i will.

 

STAR WARS™: THE OLD REPUBLIC™ RULES OF CONDUCT

 

General Rules and Guidelines

Rule 17.Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.

 

Harassment Policy

1.Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

 

5.Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

Ihope that clears some stuff up for people, prob. not because we all know some people read with a blind eye. Anyways take care and have fun...............

[Bagns]

Why is exploiting something considered bad?

 

ex·ploi·ta·tion (ksploi-tshn)

n.

1. The act of employing to the greatest possible advantage: exploitation of copper deposits.

2. Utilization of another person or group for selfish purposes: exploitation of unwary consumers.

3. An advertising or a publicity program.

 

We exploited the situation to the max, so what?

 

To be honest the gains made on that day are being wildly over inflated.

 

I earn more valour everyday than I did that first day. The amount of valour I have now aquired dwarfs what i got, (i think i got 4-5 levels from 44-49)

 

Im still only lvl 55 so its not like its game breaking, thing is the Republics are being farmed like a resource everyday, we just sit there fishing them out one by one.

 

~It must be such a demoralising game as a republic.

 

 

read my post and find out why

[williambr]

As i would like to point out the RULES OF CONDUCT, well mostly the one that is causing so much uproar on the forums about banning and so on. So like the good person i am, i took the time to look up this rule. Enjoy this i know i will.

 

STAR WARS™: THE OLD REPUBLIC™ RULES OF CONDUCT

 

General Rules and Guidelines

Rule 17.Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.

 

Harassment Policy

1.Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players.

 

5.Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

Ihope that clears some stuff up for people, prob. not because we all know some people read with a blind eye. Anyways take care and have fun...............

 

I'm glad you posted this, as I was on the empire side on the pvp server that caused the uproar I now know we have nothing to worry about. There will more than likely be no bans. No one was screaming "keep killing the republic, cause they can't respawn anywhere else". Nope, instead it was an experiment to see if we got anything for destroying those damn turrets. We destroyed the turrets, and I left(my horrid daily was finished, and the turrets didn't give anything). I came back with my brother a couple hours later and the imps had been expunged from the base and where zerging the entrance(bottom one) to the rebel base, doing the normal, boring zerg fest that is ilum. I believe alot of people are misunderstanding what the issue was. Its not zerging the gates, although boring, and shows the shortfalls of ilum, its not against any rules.

 

The only thing, that was an abuse was keeping the repubs from being able to leave that base, which I'm not sure anyone really was thinking about, or where aware of it while it happened for those 1 to 3 hours(I say to three, cause I did leave for a couple and it could have kept up, but I doubt it, once the turrets came back the imps got pinned in the taxi stand, where they where pulled out one by one, and not reinforced by outside imps)

[Charon]

I wonder if they can give the same punishment to people that are camping in the respawn zone of the adversaries in Huttball. Cause really getting killed, respawning and killed again because they are camping that area isn't fun.

[clohsetl]

With all the battlemasters playing in warzones, and with the unbal of char. I would say, do a rollback.. For new players joining the game, there will be no way in hell they will make it. As for me, I played in 20 warzones and lost all but one. This in no way is fun for anyone, for im sure IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE DONE THAT !!

[Scan]

read my post and find out why

 

You posted the T~OS, so what?

 

Its your interpretation of what happened.

 

Mine is totally different and if BW does punish us for playing the game it will be a travesty of justice.

 

The design was flawed and has been "fixed", move on.

[Suntar]

I am a republic player who has never PVPed on Illum so i have no personal agenda here.

 

This annoucement seems like a lot of hot air to me, 63 pages and after skim reading it all i can't see anyone who has actually been effected by this "action".

 

Its also grossly unfair to penalise these people when other more significant and obvious exploits have gone unpunished.

 

All the poeple who turned up and took turns to flip then zone pre 1.1 , no fighting and just collecting their champions bags from quests: - This seems a more obvious exploit to me.

 

As mentioned by somebody elsewhere on this thread the bug that allowed you to loot the Soa chest repeatedly?

 

The people I know who made lvl 50 and full T2 pvp gear in 2 weeks after launch. Not sure how exactly it was done but they said something about illum chests.

 

What the imps did by swarming the base was natural (not fair)in a pvp enviroment, you outnumber the enemy 5+ to 1, you push them back to their base and kill them where they spawn. Anyone with a reason knowledge of rvr pvp should realise this is natural pack pvp mentality. It shouldnt be possible or it will happen.

 

PVP feels baulked beyond reason on my server anyway, you have the:

 

"haves" - mostly imps, made lvl 50 quickly got alots of PVP gear from Illum when it was easier to get and outnumber the republic by a huge margin

 

and "havenots" people who have to pvp in an enviroment where the enemy are generally much better equiped and out number you, and you need to do it for longer to get any of the gear they have.

 

My solution would be zero all valor, remove all lvl 50 pvp gear, redisgn the pvp to be fair regardless of server imbalance and give everyone 30 days free play to make up for messing them about.

 

But punishing players is silly, I mean who is punishing the people who came up with this failed design or the people who tested it and signed it off?

[Murderous]

"After Game Update 1.1 went live, we discovered that the Open World PvP area on Ilum was not working as our PvP design team intended. As many of you know, large groups of players began capturing the Ilum control points, then 'camping' at the enemy's base. This led to a very frustrating experience for a number of players who were unable to leave their base and fight back against their attackers."

 

Hey, as much as I may end up regretting getting involved in such a contentious issue, I was in Ilum after the patch and it isn’t appropriate to assume that everyone was exploiting a known bug.

 

My biggest issue with Ilum prior to the patch was that people weren’t PvP’ing; they would stand in visual range of the opposition and repeatedly trade capping objectives. It felt like killing the opposition actually hindered one from accomplishing the so called “PvP” objectives.

 

The night before I logged out by the central objective point only to find that by the time my screen had loaded the next morning, I was already dead. To my astonishment PvP was occurring in Ilum! I excitedly wrote in /Guild for everyone to come on down as it was crazy fun.

 

At one point the Pubs were attacking our base and it was a blast; never once did I think that they were “camping” us as the turret point is supposed to be a capturable objective, correct (although I have never actually seen it done)?

 

The Pubs then left and we went to attack their base; remember that this was a mass PUG and there was no communal intention of griefing anyone, I just finally wanted to try to take their base. Well the combination of the 2 OP turrets and general unwillingness of a PUG to rush en masse meant that over the course of hours we never took it. The difference between “camping” an objective and “turtling” within one is a matter of side. I can’t speak for anyone else, but it didn’t even occur to me until reading this thread that trying to take their base was considered an exploit.

 

At some point people started to post in /General about how quickly valor was being gained; people were either happy or pissed off, nonetheless at least PvP was occurring. It is important to realize that over the few hours that I tried to take their base it was a typically poorly organized PUG; specifically we were only attacking the left entrance and as such Pubs could and did freely leave the right side. The main reason I finally stopped was because the repetition became boring and the frame rate was typically horrendous, worse than a slide show with many Error 9000 dc’s and SWTOR cutscreens during latency spikes.

 

I wonder if perhaps I was not being as efficient as some others at valor gain during this period? I gained 2 levels over about 3 hours, which admittedly seems rapid compared to wz queuing, but not overtly exploitive if that is how BioWare designed it. I am skeptical about this talk of going from level 30 to 60 valor in a few hours, as this was not my experience even as a Sorcerer casting AoE’s like Mardi Gras throws.

 

I have no problem with BioWare going back and adjusting valor gained during that time period to a rate consistent with their expectations, as a matter of fact I think they need to keep refining new systems to maintain balance. What I am not so sure about is throwing around the word “exploit” if by that they mean the Imps trying unsuccessfully to take the Pub base over many hours; at some point their turrets were being defended by as few as 10 players (that I could see from my corpse cam vantage point after unsuccessfully trying to inspire a rush).

 

I never felt that what I was doing was exploitive, and I am sure that many others didn’t either. Two main /General statements were consistently coming through, one being let’s beat their turtle by all rushing in and taking them on head to head, while the other was let’s all fall back so that they might come out and PvP; unfortunately the lack of organization of the PUG meant that neither happened, many just stayed on the platform in front of the entrance, and we would trade off kills on those with enough balls to try to lead rushes on either side.

 

I fully admit that I may be missing something here about what exactly the “exploit” was, but in open world PvP, zergs are king and unless the game mechanics deter that from occurring, then mass invasion of an objective point (in this case their base) should not be considered a “camping” exploit. The only reason the Imps so called “camped” their base was because they were too feeble to take it as a PUG.

 

Take back an appropriate amount of valor to retain balance, that is a good thing, but don’t be so quick to brand people who finally got to PvP in the open PvP area of Ilum while trying to take objectives as designed by BioWare as exploitive. The concept that there was some communal organized griefing mindset in the chaos of a mass PUG on the first day of actual world PvP is nonsensical.

 

Also realize that this is the first time I heard anything about people being warned to avoid Ilum. If they want to do such a thing effectively they need to send out a system-wide in game message such as occurs prior to a server shut down. You can't blame people who are in game for not taking time out from playing to randomly check the forums to find out whether they are ignoring a request to avoid an area.

 

 

 

^Well said, sir. (or ma'am). Perhaps some of you radicals that are on one side or the other should read this again. Knee jerk reactions only cause more problems.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Murderous

[Agenteusa]

I´m actually happy that some peole understand the points I gave and also think it´s unfair to punish players for crap designs and bad implementations.

 

I really think at this point the only solution would be :

 

1 - Shut down Ilum

2 - Use your brains and design something that will work

3 - Open Ilum again and let people enjoy what it´s meant to be, faction vs faction.

[Amiracle]

So....any names of anyone????

 

Trion said the same thing but no one actually knew anyone that was punished for exploiting,

 

I know there would be people on the forums complaining that Bio did something but yet to see anything. This to me means its all hot air.