SWTOR endgame is an absolute disaster

[CriticalMasses]

Just to point out something

 

I'm a player of WoW, who wish (still) to switch

 

There is an area related to end game in which TOR fails hard, and this is customer service

 

On a LFR, on of my character was ninjaed a item (this means, btw, that the boss normally dropped an item and that everyone could loot it: incredible, I know ) : I got it back six hours after report.

 

Well that's Electronic Arts. I can't disagree there. EA has always had terrible customer support. Same goes for Origin. The only game that could complete with EA's poor customer service was SOE AFTER Ever Quest.

[CriticalMasses]

For those that thought this forum would be better with all the trolls gone, you were wrong. Wrong in that the mindless defenders are still here. This guy/gal posts legitimate bugs that should not be in game and what happens? You get the usual ridiculousness of the mindless. What you guys fail to realize is if stuff like the OP describes continues there isn't going to be much of game for you to mindlessly defend.

 

Nobody is denying the bugs exist. People are laughing because the game has been out 2 months and this guy and his guild are "progressed" and "experienced".

 

The bugs are to be expected, he and his crew are to be thanked for pointing them out so that Bioware can fix them by the time the casuals are 50 and ready to have a bug free experience. By the time that happens, he and his crew will be gone, back to WoW probably. But he will have found the bugs that bioware fixes.

 

Kinda humorous if you think about it. It's REALLY humorous when you remember that we had long discussions about this on the forums before launch. He and his progressed guild were a statistic waiting to happen even then.

[CriticalMasses]

Given that they already released new end game content, does it seem like people are blowing through what is already in place? I mean I get that there are hardcore groups out there, but a month into a game, this shouldn't be as big an issue as it is.

 

To be honest, I have a full time job, a wife, and a family,and it took me about 5 weeks to level cap. It really isn't that hard to level in this game. It only becomes difficult when the quests get boring, and on the republic side, that happens between level 38-45 and again at level 47-50.

 

I know several people that logged out between level 38 and 41 and haven't logged back in because the rep. side quests take a nose dive into grind territory around then.

 

And also to be honest, I feel for the players fleshing out all the bugs with end-game content, but I lose sympathy when they also come in and troll about how crafting SHOULD suck, about how there SHOULD be no solo content at end-game, about how we SHOULD spend hours LFG if we didn't come to this game with a guild. About how certain colors SHOULD be rare and SHOULD only be accessible to raiders and PVP. etc.

 

Yeah, that's where my sympathy ends.

 

And as I am level 13 on my alt, I can reaffirm that going through basically the same content a 2nd time, it's not nearly as fun. In fact I can only take a level or 2 before logging back to my main to run more gathering missions and sit on the fleet with my LFG tag up.

 

But Bioware WILL fix the bugs. It's all the stuff they AREN'T communicating about that is annoying as hell.

 

However I also agree that the community of SWTOR is Abysmal. But that's not Bioware's fault, that is what WoW has trained the community to be. If you didn't come to SWTOR with a pre-existing community that moved here, then you are part of a very large group that is going to have problems FINDING groups.

 

What is Bioware's fault is not realizing this and taking steps to head off the issues. Now we've got entire server populations trying to re-learn how to be sociable and being FORCEd to be nice (if they ever want another group again) and it is taking it's toll on people in the game.

 

Personally it'd be nice to find a good old-school guild that remembers how it used to be done BEFORE WoW. A guild like that would have a huge advantage in SWTOR.

 

Bioware could have easily fixed the raiding and FP hard mode bugs by over-tuning the content to the extent that it is EXTREMELY difficult to finish until all the bugs are fixed though. Instead they made it too easy.

Edited February 1, 2012 by CriticalMasses

[antiviolence]

But Bioware WILL fix the bugs. It's all the stuff they AREN'T communicating about that is annoying as hell.

 

^Basically this.

Let's just take a look at the forums for example.

There's basically no one around who acknowledges/communicates with players regarding certain serious issues. All the mods do here is warn you for misconduct and inform you that "this thread is full... move along." or link you to another similar thread.

 

 

The only thing keeping me in this game are my friends/guildmates. It's nothing like good company to ward off bad.. ermm.. stuff.

But I can't say the same for when GW2, D3 or any other MMO with a mind blowing trailer pops up and we finally call it quits and shelf this game.

Tbh, I don't want to see the game fail but.. :\

Edited February 1, 2012 by antiviolence

[MindFullness]

Sadly in spite of the fanboys around I have ot agree with the OP.

 

My guild started only recently to raid after enjoying leveling to 50 at a leisurely pace.

EV Normal was cleaned in 2.5 hours and that was mostly due to lazyness on SOA.

HM the 4 first bosses were destroyed and then a bug stopped us to try SOA as the Boss disappeared and did not want to reset...

 

I'll pass on the crazy amounts of bugs and associated frustration, and the bad arrangements (e.g. no repair dude in front of instance).

 

Still no one care about dying as long as it's mechanical but bug after bug after bug? Just changed my subs on-time from 3 months cancelled to 1 month paypal. If BW does not change their **** I can see the amount of palyers substantially decreasing (though they nerfed so much FP's HM that most casu must be happy...).

 

Not mentioning the absence of log he? (again!) No proper guild management (guild bank anyone?) or proper UI. For a game of this scope it better improve vastly and quickly or I predict a substantial reduction in subs soon. Note I was clsoe to fanboyism myself but you'll see when you reach end-game. Oh! And no one cares about 213213 rerolls really except people who don't like real challenges and competition and are certainly unemployed... so don't bring that one up...

Edited February 15, 2012 by Parali
profanity

[Chainmailler]

my guilds gone full clear on ev and kraggas on hard mode and only had the master loot bug once, which admittedly is too many, but I have never seen that gharj bug your talking about

[Hironobu]

I can't believe how old this thread is, and it is still relevant. Same old bugs.

 

Why aren't they doing anything to fix the end game content? Why aren't they doing anything to fix PvP?

 

I do not want to roll an alt. I do not want to PvP outnumbered and outgeared every day. I want to play challenging teamwork based trials in a Massively Multiplayer Online Environment with Lots Of People.

 

Is this very hard to comprehend? Swtor will do worse than Rift at this rate. 2 Million are going to keep subscribing to roll alts and play outnumbered PvP matches every time they log in? Sure.

[Artacks]

I can't believe how old this thread is, and it is still relevant. Same old bugs.

 

Why aren't they doing anything to fix the end game content? Why aren't they doing anything to fix PvP?

 

Because they don't care. The purpose of this game is story driven. All BW needs to do is successfully immerse their fans in a story of their own, and they have done their job.

 

This game wasn't made to appeal to the raiders, or the pvpers. That stuff is just extra to do. This game appeals to the people who love Star Wars, and want to be involved in that process.

 

It sucks, but it is what it is.

[Dhariq]

Yeah it is kinda sad that this most negative post is still as valid as it were when it was posted. It really makes me wonder how they can let this huge project fall apart like this. Perhaps it is simply the best they can do. *shrug*

[Ewgal]

Bioware really need to concentrate on bug fixing current PvE raiding content that is present rather than adding more content imho, at the moment. To be fair, though, the game is only shortly after launch, and usually PvE raiding comes into tis own later on, usually 6 months plus after launch. Certainly that was my recollections of WoW when it launched and I played that game. Might be fun if Bioware put in some RvR raiding in as well at some point into the mix rather than just straight PvE content, certainly Bioware/Mythic have some experience there now, I'd have thought, and it would fit well with the World PvP and war zones. Edited February 15, 2012 by Ewgal

[Anomorn]

Because they don't care. The purpose of this game is story driven. All BW needs to do is successfully immerse their fans in a story of their own, and they have done their job.

 

This game wasn't made to appeal to the raiders, or the pvpers. That stuff is just extra to do. This game appeals to the people who love Star Wars, and want to be involved in that process.

 

It sucks, but it is what it is.

 

The purpose of this game is to make money.

[portichae]

Trouble is when WoW come out it absolutely owned everyone else. It had alot more than most other games, and was very much fun to play. It felt epic.

 

If you release a WoW clone now, today, launch or not then your gonna have to blow it out the water. Swtor devs think voice overs and storyline did just that. Most people I know playing the game disagreed.

 

This is a mediocre game, nothing more, nothing less. If you love it, think its the best game ever, then fair play to you - go login and enjoy yourself. But dont come here telling me this game would have blown WoW out of the water 7 years ago, because it wouldnt.

 

 

If this exact game...EXACT game were to have come out 7 years ago.

It would have blown WoW out of the water.

 

SWTOR had a better launch, it HAS better graphics, better graphical engine, voice over, better storytelling a well designed skill tree (WoW did not have 7 years ago) There'd be no competition.

 

Be reasonable. This has 7 years on WoW and it has learned from past MMO mistakes.

 

Stop making idiotic comparisons. If you have such a hard-on for WoW go play WoW.

 

The months after launch are always buggy. This was one of the least buggy launches in mmo history. Check your facts.

Edited February 15, 2012 by portichae

[Ewgal]

To be fair also it takes time for most mmo games to develop endgame raiding, at launch WoW didn't have much and had many bugs and issues also.

[Perkunas]

Still waiting for THE BLOODY COMBAT LOG. The devs here need to go track down the guys from Verant to unlock the magical secret of the combat log as it must have been lost in the past 10 years... Oh wait... Warcraft had it... Edited February 15, 2012 by Perkunas

[Zitori]

If this exact game...EXACT game were to have come out 7 years ago.

It would have blown WoW out of the water.

 

SWTOR had a better launch, it HAS better graphics, better graphical engine, voice over, better storytelling a well designed skill tree (WoW did not have 7 years ago) There'd be no competition.

 

Be reasonable. This has 7 years on WoW and it has learned from past MMO mistakes.

 

I completely agree with you. I have been using this same argument for the Microsoft Windows phone. It is an amazing phone, and had it been released 5 years back, it would have blown all the phones out of the water.

 

The iPhone is just better because it has had 5 years of improvements. Give the Windows phone 5 years and it will be as good as iPhone today.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Zitori

[qwinnet]

The game is not two months old and being played by seasoned mmo players. Sure there will be bugs and not enough content.

 

Anyone who played WoW back in 2005 knows how rough it was, how long it took to get to L60 and how hard it was to make gold. Raids (all two of them, I think) were 40 man - meaning most players never raided. Remember how hard it was just to get a decent ubrs run, and then find out you had no hunter and, thus, probably couldn't do the last boss? Crafting sucked and you got disconnected all the time. Respeccing cost 50G and dual spec was three years off (and 1K gold when it got there). When Ensidia got hit for using a bug to kill the Lich King, they responded with a list of of all early raids and bad bugs contained there. Everyone who is complaining should search for that thread and read it to remind themselves of up a startup is like.

 

I support large client server apps like these and know the first few months are constant bug fixes and little enhancements. It's impossible to catch all the bugs and issues in the testing periods.

 

With all this said, this game has a total package that is better than anything I've played. I'm staying and not going back to wow or rift.

[Ewgal]

To be fair, I can remember playing WoW on release and most of the early endgame guilds broke up because of bugs and problems with the raiding, they just burnt themselves out on the dream that it would be at the same state as EQ just after launch.

[Artacks]

The purpose of this game is to make money.

 

Which doesn't come from raiders.

[DocterMadmac]

They are not paying any issue to this boss fights in ops becuse players have found a way around them.

 

Now this says how highly skilled players are in mmos are.

 

But Ev in genarl is ahorrable buggy op it worrys me that player have figured out work arounds for a game so huge that i wonder what other work arounds players hvae found for this game.

 

we are all well aware of the pvp bugs and cheats many have used to win games unfarly.

 

 

All we are asking Bioware is before adding big content patchs why cant you fix the bugs inthe two opertions you have out its not much to ask consdering we are paying you to play a game thats enjoyable and horrbale all in the same hand.

 

I am geting tired of matching players freinds I have lvled with sense beta quit becuse they are disgusted with the lvl of bugs in parts of this game.

[Vuknasty]

Most players should agree that TOR's launch has been better than WoW's launch - that's not the issue at hand.

 

The problem is that the two products cost the SAME amount of money per month, except WoW has far more features and playable content. I don't grasp why the consumers, who are paying monthly fees, should give BioWare a pass on the quality and quantity of endgame content just because it's a new game.

 

Even if you hand-wave the bugs with an "it'll all get fixed bud" mentality, the shocking lack of features is disconcerting. Where's the fun stuff to do on planets I've already visited? How about dual spec (coming in March, along with a zillion bugs), LFG for Flashpoints, PvP restructuring, in-game events, Pazaak... tons of things that could make TOR awesome simply don't exist and may not even be on the drawing board.

 

On my 50, it's wayyyyy too easy to log out when my options are:

 

a) horrible soul-killing PvE dailies (1-2 of which are bugged on Ilum constantly anyway)

b) the awfulness of the Ilum PvP daily

c) get farmed by premades/BMs in PvP

d) stand around Fleet hoping to find a HM Flashpoint

e) log out

 

I tend to choose (e) and it's a short path from that to simply canceling. The thing is, I want to be enthralled with TOR, eagerly awaiting the next time I can log in. As it stands that's just not happening.

[rerollable]

Heck im still waiting for fixes to things like my character model is too big to get to some of the datacrons? I mean really, how hard was that to check before the game went live? We've encountered a few of the issues the OP mentioned, but to be honest, not alot of the guild even logs in anymore.

 

The crafting system, which in the past i've used to fill some downtime (lockouts), is almost a complete waste of time.

 

I'm glad theres people enjoying the game, to each his own, but what amazes me is after all the "failed" mmo over the years, that some companies are still making the same mistakes over and over. A game has 30-60 days, you dont impress enough and your chance may be over.

 

With another "game" coming out in the next month or two, it seems the impression window for this game is getting smaller and smaller.

[Hironobu]

I completely agree with you. I have been using this same argument for the Microsoft Windows phone. It is an amazing phone, and had it been released 5 years back, it would have blown all the phones out of the water.

 

The iPhone is just better because it has had 5 years of improvements. Give the Windows phone 5 years and it will be as good as iPhone today.

 

 

LOL! Touche sir. Touche.

[Isiiss]

after 7 years of playing wow i never ever thought i would have to say the following words...

 

i never ever thought that it is possible that any game producer could be more incompentent than blizzard. but unfortunately this is absolutely the case here. when you start with the game, everything is perfect, but endgame - or buggame - is just horrible.

 

bioware is doing nothing but ruining this game. but hey why do ppl complain about too less new content? there is new content every week in the operations! surprise surprise!

its not a bug its a feature-.-

[Xzenorath]

I'm level 50, in a guild full of 50's.

 

We raid every week

We do HM FP's every night

We do dailies all the time

We PVP every night

 

I'm still having fun and am enjoying leveling my alt Smuggler.

 

Sure, there's bugs. Just like every single MMO out there, if you're not having fun, pick one of the others that are so much better and come back when this game is fixed and feature-rich.

 

Complaining about it doesn't do anything for anyone.

[MrCute]

 

Lastly, SWTOR is missing the most basic of MMO features like a COMBAT LOG!. What MMO these days releases without a freaking combat log?!!!!!

 

 

This is my main concern. Without Combat Log, we wont have Damage Meters mod. I was a very very good DPS'er back in WoW. People there notices me whatever toons I make me becoz of it. Thats how I was able to get invited from a very decent guild and how I get priority on raid spot. I became well respected coz it showed how good I am on spec'ing, gearing, rotation, timing of use of cd's, etc.

 

Right now without damage meters in SWTOR, I am nobody. Whether I perform or not in terms of damage, whether I dont put points on talent tree, people wont notice it. I would always be left out on raid spot while they bring in bunch of noobs and keeps wondering why they kept wiping and wiping.

 

Noobs are rejoicing. When their flashpoint or operations fail, they would just blame it to a certain class like my Assassin class. How can I prove theyre wrong? There's no damage meters to back my claim.

Edited February 16, 2012 by MrCute