Egnar Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I understand why expertise is in the game - It's an easy way to differentiate between what is PvE gear and what is PvP gear. SWTOR [as well as several other MMOS like DCUO that use a similar system] learned from the juggernauts of MMOs that the lines become blurred between the two types of gear with people finding some pvp gear better for PvE encounters and vice versa. However, it's a silly "one-off" stat that is unfriendly stat that will just become worse with time when Bioware is forced to add another PVP set to compensate for higher tiered PvE raids. It's one thing to go into PvP with much lower level gear and getting killed but it's quite another to go into a PVP encounter similarly geared but do 10-20% less damage while taking 10-20% more damage because the other player spent much more time sitting on Ilum "trading" while knitting socks and sipping tea, or, more recently sitting at a Mexican Standstill of 80v80 players hoping 1 player runs in close enough to grapple into the group. I think of course that the worst part is that it has presented an "end all be all" philosophy. There is a single set of equipment to be used in PVP that you do not dare change out with something better you may have found elsewhere because your expertise value suffers. Exchanging 40 expertise is not like exchanging 40 accuracy rating because expertise effects just about everything you do instead of small subsets of your roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntoniusDelitan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Do you have a better suggestion to keep high-level raid gear from dominating in PvP like WoW for the better part of two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Expertise, Resilience, Valor, whatever you want to call it, is a necessary evil for many reasons. Unfortunately, most people who complain about it refuse to look at the overall balancing of the game from the Devs point of view. You people need to get over it. Edit: when I say "overall balancing", I don't mean PVP balancing - I mean balancing increasingly higher PVE DPS with PVP health pools, making PVE and PVP gear progression paths identically similar in length of time to attain, releasing new tiers of content, etc. Edited January 20, 2012 by Killadrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sookster Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yeah it's "balanced" when EVERYONE has expertise... that's how the devs see it right? Funny how much more fun 10-49 pvp is now, took out a 47 sage with my 26 powertech, wouldn't have happened if that sage was 50 with some champ gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killadrix Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yeah it's "balanced" when EVERYONE has expertise... that's how the devs see it right? Funny how much more fun 10-49 pvp is now, took out a 47 sage with my 26 powertech, wouldn't have happened if that sage was 50 with some champ gear. Again, you are looking at balance from a strictly PVP point of view. The need for the expertise stat has less to do with just PVP than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Either way gear is going to be a factor. Expertise is so PvP gear isn't better than PvE gear in PvE and PvE gear isn't better than PvP gear in PvP. Might it require some adjustment? Well... honestly? Yeah. Its the one stat the ignores to normal ability rules. If PvE gear was able to have Internal and Elemental resist towards endgame, it'd be a bit more balanced I'd think, but that has its own issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonLights Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Expertise should be a PvE stat on PvE gear. More Expertise means you're more effective in Operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Do you have a better suggestion to keep high-level raid gear from dominating in PvP like WoW for the better part of two years? Ya cause these are some leet PVPers there.. and wow look at that leet PVP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuari Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Expertise should be a PvE stat on PvE gear. More Expertise means you're more effective in Operations. Change operations to ALL flashpoints and maybe you'd have something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaliesin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Do you have a better suggestion to keep high-level raid gear from dominating in PvP like WoW for the better part of two years? A very simple one actually. Remove expertise and have the high end PvP gear and the high end PvE gear have the same stats. Now if you PvP all the time and have the high end gear and get face rolled by a PvE guy in his high end PvE gear with the same stats , well guess what? You got beat by skill! Everyone points to WoW and says this is what happened and why there has to be a PvP stat! But that's just faulty logic. What happened in WoW was that the best gear was raid gear, bar none. There was no PvP gear to compete with it and it gave an unfair advantage to someone who had no idea how to PvP. Make the high tiered gear equal, and make them take the same amount of effort to obtain. The hardcore PvPers will have better skills for PvP because they practice, if they are worried about being facerolled by people who got equal gear from PvEing then they just suck. Any PvPer who complains about the idea of equal gear being bad and wants these additional expertise stats are just people who suck at PvP and need an advantage to win. Where does it say that because I PvP I should be excluded from doing hard mode flashpoints? Where does it say that because I choose to PvE I should be at a disadvantage in PvP? I know that most people fall into 1 group or the other but there are people like me that PvP AND PvE competitively. This is an MMO and I play games like this to OMG -> PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I feel like expertise is a barrier between PvP and PvE players. Why would you want to exclude people from playing together by putting in this barrier? Edited January 20, 2012 by JTaliesin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeIIspawn Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Yes it is pretty stupid to separate pvp and pve gear.. Wow had some really nasty raids back in the good old days where you could spend like 6 months worth of raidtokens for 1 good item... that is pretty hard to balance towards pvp time invest.. But look at wow today where you un in and kill the ugly dragon with a pug.. Should be pretty easy to balance to pvp time invest nowadays. Ok so you still think pve raids are harder.. well make a challange system then like many games have today.. Have different pvp challanges.. for this pvp item you need to gain 100 kills or fo this item you need to have a kill death ratio of 5 or better for your last 10 games... well you get the point. I agree with the prevoius poster that most fun would be if you could play both pvp and pve.. today games force you to choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaderin Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Do you have a better suggestion to keep high-level raid gear from dominating in PvP like WoW for the better part of two years? Yes, just equalize them. There is no need for pve and pvp gear to be massively different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominemesis Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Do you have a better suggestion to keep high-level raid gear from dominating in PvP like WoW for the better part of two years? yep the same sets of gear from raiding, also available in pvp. Same gear, different ways to earn it, no problem. Also remove the lame PvP stat that doesn't exist in the game until you get smashed in the face with it at lvl 50. Then as people level up they will have better gear as they go, not just have to hit 50 and grind out the only gear that matters or stand no chance at all. It will smooth progression, not introduce all abruptly an entirely different progression altogether. Edited January 20, 2012 by Dominemesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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