I failed all of you.

[Gomuningen]

First Off. I alpha tested and beta tested the game for nearly 2 years. I am part of a small population who has failed both parties. We didn't do our job making sure Bioware got all the info they needed. A lot of us just played because we enjoyed the game and ignored feedback requests. We were willing to ignore bugs because we recognized that it was just a testing phase. For that I am truly sorry.

 

Second I can't blame Bioware or even EA for their lack of support during it's launch. If you truly read through all the primary complaints about the game and feedback requests you will start to realize just how much of their attention is spent trying to make the game a solid experience before they lose too many subscribers. As a community that cares about the success of this game we should be giving them a break (yes a F2P period while they fix a lot of major bugs would be nice, but there are some of us who are still enjoying the game regardless).

 

And third-- Actually I don't want to count points anymore. I played WoW for years and was a casual raider. I grew to despise WoW because of raid drama and relying on others for progression. Because SWTOR requires the same thing I began to hate it too. I hate the holy trinity (Tank, Healer, DPS or Tank, Healer, CC for the vets) because it means if I want to play a damage dealer I am stuck in a low priority queue for group progression activities, and if I play a healer or a tank I get the progression but half the enjoyment. I could write a list of things I hate but that's my problem... I never stopped to lay out things I liked-- And then coupled that with things that are expected to come to SW:TOR in the future. Also some of these things are different than WoW.

 

*I Like the space combat (while limiting) it's a fun distraction and a good way for earning extra coin and XP.

 

*I like exploring and killing mindless numbers of mobs for no reason other than because I enjoy it... Eventually I find myself running across rare drops and an extra bag of coin as a result.

 

*Even though PvP is horribly incomplete and has almost come to a stand still in illium since the arrival of v1.1 I still enjoy the epic bag rewards for completeing dailies and turning in comms (Yes they take way too long to earn but it's a nice little prize at the end of a long journey). I would like to see gear rewards for players who perform extremely well in WZs or a seperate set of tokens that can be used to buy fancy toys.

 

*I find the orange gear option a nice way of further customizing my character as I progress through the game. It may feel off now but it's application and possibilities could really be a big thing in the near future.

 

*I enjoy some of the story line cutscenes, they may feel like sugar coating at times but other times it's a real treat.

 

It's Biowares responsibility to make this game what we wanted it to be. But it's our responsibility to tell them what that is. Shame on the beta testers (myself especially) for not giving good feedback... Shame on EA for their Greed and time constraints causing an early release. And shame on all of us for ************ or hating on each other instead of giving Bioware what they are dying for. Solid Info.

 

You can go back to WoW or whatever MMO that you have been grinding through for years but I'm asking that you give the game a few months and become a part of making something great. Lay off on customer support and try to only give feedback on the forums that is helpful and less hateful. Now I now I am asking for world peace here but sooner or later you kids are going to realize that we are all hear because we share a common interest and we should get along because of that fact... Instead of appearing functionally retarded.

 

For those who are having a hard time with the game let me throw this at you, I hated the game and I learned that in order to enjoy this meal it's best eaten slow. Try to savor the nice little things while giving Bioware a chance to work on the massive amounts of big things.

 

Once again I am sorry I failed you as an alpha/beta tester.

 

Please do not test anymore games, especially if you were a non-paid tester. Must be tough testing during Alpha while all the other Alpha testers were getting paid to do it.

 

Thanks

[Thorun]

It's an MMO. Playing with others is sorta implied... Don't want to play with others? There are plenty of single-player games out there. Have at it.

 

ya its called SWTOR. haha

 

easy fanbois im keedin im keedin

[flofan]

Nice of you to change the title of your post. Now try changing the subject matter because this has nothing to do with us beta testers. We were there to essentially be the load and stress test for them. Any feedback we provided I'm sure was stacked in a nice little pile with the other complaints we've had since day one.

 

I feel bad for you, because you have no clue what the community was like when it was first announced. You joined in December of 2011, you weren't there during a lot of the hype and excitement. You've only experienced complaining. I see why you might be skewed, but remember that there was a time of pure bliss.

 

I remember a thread discussing if planets were gonna be big enough to need transports and how we would be able to get from planet to planet.

[JediMasterShake]

You have FAILED me for the last time, forum guy...

 

*pinching gesture*

 

Can you feel that???

 

hahahahhaha

[Haam]

First Off. I alpha tested and beta tested the game for nearly 2 years. I am part of a small population who has failed both parties. We didn't do our job making sure Bioware got all the info they needed. A lot of us just played because we enjoyed the game and ignored feedback requests. We were willing to ignore bugs because we recognized that it was just a testing phase. For that I am truly sorry.

 

Second I can't blame Bioware or even EA for their lack of support during it's launch. If you truly read through all the primary complaints about the game and feedback requests you will start to realize just how much of their attention is spent trying to make the game a solid experience before they lose too many subscribers. As a community that cares about the success of this game we should be giving them a break (yes a F2P period while they fix a lot of major bugs would be nice, but there are some of us who are still enjoying the game regardless).

 

And third-- Actually I don't want to count points anymore. I played WoW for years and was a casual raider. I grew to despise WoW because of raid drama and relying on others for progression. Because SWTOR requires the same thing I began to hate it too. I hate the holy trinity (Tank, Healer, DPS or Tank, Healer, CC for the vets) because it means if I want to play a damage dealer I am stuck in a low priority queue for group progression activities, and if I play a healer or a tank I get the progression but half the enjoyment. I could write a list of things I hate but that's my problem... I never stopped to lay out things I liked-- And then coupled that with things that are expected to come to SW:TOR in the future. Also some of these things are different than WoW.

 

*I Like the space combat (while limiting) it's a fun distraction and a good way for earning extra coin and XP.

 

*I like exploring and killing mindless numbers of mobs for no reason other than because I enjoy it... Eventually I find myself running across rare drops and an extra bag of coin as a result.

 

*Even though PvP is horribly incomplete and has almost come to a stand still in illium since the arrival of v1.1 I still enjoy the epic bag rewards for completeing dailies and turning in comms (Yes they take way too long to earn but it's a nice little prize at the end of a long journey). I would like to see gear rewards for players who perform extremely well in WZs or a seperate set of tokens that can be used to buy fancy toys.

 

*I find the orange gear option a nice way of further customizing my character as I progress through the game. It may feel off now but it's application and possibilities could really be a big thing in the near future.

 

*I enjoy some of the story line cutscenes, they may feel like sugar coating at times but other times it's a real treat.

 

It's Biowares responsibility to make this game what we wanted it to be. But it's our responsibility to tell them what that is. Shame on the beta testers (myself especially) for not giving good feedback... Shame on EA for their Greed and time constraints causing an early release. And shame on all of us for ************ or hating on each other instead of giving Bioware what they are dying for. Solid Info.

 

You can go back to WoW or whatever MMO that you have been grinding through for years but I'm asking that you give the game a few months and become a part of making something great. Lay off on customer support and try to only give feedback on the forums that is helpful and less hateful. Now I now I am asking for world peace here but sooner or later you kids are going to realize that we are all hear because we share a common interest and we should get along because of that fact... Instead of appearing functionally retarded.

 

For those who are having a hard time with the game let me throw this at you, I hated the game and I learned that in order to enjoy this meal it's best eaten slow. Try to savor the nice little things while giving Bioware a chance to work on the massive amounts of big things.

 

Once again I am sorry I failed you as an alpha/beta tester.

 

Huh, You didnt Alpha test teh Elevators and Loading Screens well enough !!

[Vaedean]

Huh, You didnt Alpha test teh Elevators and Loading Screens well enough !!

 

The first time I tested was when only Korriban was available and I did indeed fall through the elevator to the great unknown. The sites I saw there... Korriban looked so small when you are looking at it's skeletal makeup from what seems like miles away.. Oh and the amount of "Pink Default" textures on most everything was fashionable for a time.

[lowizi]

Damn dude, they could make a movie about your thread.

Brokeback Betatester or sumthing...

[Xilax]

No I failed you. I was the choosen one that should have brought balance to the force! oh wait, that was Starwars, not kotor. darn.

[Cancrizans]

I still don't know where all these bugs are and what needs to get sorted out...as it is this launch is miles above every MMO launch I've played, including WoW, so either people a) need to step back and gain some perspective, or b) have no idea wth they are talking about.

 

I have to laugh at all this nonsense about OMG we can't play an MMO with no damage meters and UI mods!!!! What are we going to do without a LFG tool!!! Because it just shows me how most people don't really even appreciate MMOs for what they are, and probably belong back in FPS land or wherever the hell they learned their bad gaming habits.

 

There are a handful of issues I have with the game at this point, and absolutely anyone who is having serious performance issues running a system that is within minimum requirements has a right to complain. Among my issues are ability delay(the only issue I really consider important), and a few complaints about overall performance, but having been a part of many MMO launches, including WoW, I find these minor in comparison to what I had to go through with other MMOs(and those of you whining about bugs would have stated emphatically that WoW was not going to last 6 months, because it was a HELL of a lot more buggy than SWTOR is).

 

If you are playing MMOs for the right reasons, you should enjoy the incredible world Bioware has created...immerse yourselves in the storyline and the attention to detail, play with some friends on a social level and enjoy experiencing this rich and varied world together. THAT is the kind of gamer who belongs in an MMO environment.

 

If you just want to blow stuff up as fast as possible so you can sit in the most conspicuous place in the most populated area of the game to compensate for your inadequacies by showing everyone that you have better armor than them, or can more stylishly block mailboxes with your mount, maybe you are more suited to a different genre.

 

At any rate please take your venom and spit it in a different direction than these forums, because most of us are sick of having to stomach your bile every day just to read about the game a bit.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Cancrizans

[AposFao]

I appreciate your candor, but I don't want an apology from you, OP, I want an apology from Bioware.

 

I'm not asking for an apology because I personally feel wronged, but because maybe- maybe- it will make these forums function again, instead of the ground zero for flame war after flame war.

 

Frankly, I've been through three or four MMO releases now, and I've never seen a community hate a development studio producing the game more than this one hates Bioware. I think it comes from the people who play this game and the expectations they were given, but I also think it has a little to do with how these players were and are treated. Bioware hasn't approached its playerbase, it has handled us. It has treated at arms length and hidden its responses behind PR-crafted posts. Apparently, we are not worth an actual, human, response from these people.

 

That's why I'm asking for an apology. Not that I think it will fix anything, but because the dismissive treatment that this playerbase has perceived from the studio has so ruined the relationship their consumers that I dont think they can do anything right now to appease them.

 

Except, maybe, apologize.

[DaniWes]

... sooner or later you kids are going to realize ....

 

This single line made me forget everything you posted. Shame on you.

[Ravager]

I feel bad for you, because you have no clue what the community was like when it was first announced. You joined in December of 2011, you weren't there during a lot of the hype and excitement. You've only experienced complaining. I see why you might be skewed, but remember that there was a time of pure bliss.

 

I remember a thread discussing if planets were gonna be big enough to need transports and how we would be able to get from planet to planet.

 

There was just as much complaining when the site went up in 2008, like:

 

• Art style was a big one. When the site launched, the graphics were not polished, and the first screenshot had people worried ( http://www.swtor.com/media/screens/force-choke) . The complaints about the graphics lasted until they polished 2009.
  
• There was a group of forum members who really wanted the game to have sandbox elements, akin to the only other Star Wars MMO to compare to. It was a big topic until 2009.
  
• E3 and Off Topic forum wipe. ("BioWare LIED to us!" "We have been deceived!" were thread titles that seemed to last forever, because BioWare didn't show a demo at E3. Rectified by showing the demo in August)
  
• Two Force-using classes per side. There was an uproar then on the forums (as always), but clearly, no where else. 2009.
  

 

The forum has always had complaining. Even now, with threads like "BioWare is a sinking ship!" "I am sorry, I could have given feedback on this broken game, forgive me," there are around two million people (according to vgchartz) who have bought the game, and if even 50% of them resub, that is an extremely successful retention rate. Reviews have been excellent, with IGN and Game Informer regularly posting about the game. The game is fine, and it will only get better.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Ravager

[Ziegler]

There was just as much complaining when the site went up in 2008, when I joined. Seriously. Some big ones include:

 

• Art style was a big one. When the site launched, the graphics were not polished, and the first screenshot had people worried ( http://www.swtor.com/media/screens/force-choke) . The complaints about the graphics lasted until they polished 2009.
  
• There was a group of forum members who really wanted the game to have sandbox elements, akin to the only other Star Wars MMO to compare to. It was a big topic until 2009.
  
• E3 and Off Topic forum wipe. ("BioWare LIED to us!" "We have been deceived!" were popular thread titles, because BioWare didn't show a demo at E3. Rectified by showing the demo in August)
  
• Two Force-using classes per side. There was an uproar then on the forums (as always), but clearly, no where else. Don't remember that one in 2009, right?
  

 

The forum has always had complaining. Even now, with threads like "BioWare is a sinking ship!" "I am sorry, I could have given feedback on this broken game, forgive me," there are around two million people (according to vgchartz) who have bought the game, and if even 50% of them resub, that is an extremely successful retention rate. Reviews have been excellent, with IGN and Game Informer regularly posting about the game. The game is fine, and it will only get better.

 

and they would kill those threads before they got to page two. But it was things like the game design, all the instancing, and the "world PVP" that said this was going to be trainwreck...and it is. When the game was announced, the decisions were already made on what kind of game it was going to be and it didnt matter what was said on the forums.

And as pointed out....we were pretty much told that directly.

[Ravager]

and they would kill those threads before they got to page two. But it was things like the game design, all the instancing, and the "world PVP" that said this was going to be trainwreck...and it is. When the game was announced, the decisions were already made on what kind of game it was going to be and it didnt matter what was said on the forums.

And as pointed out....we were pretty much told that directly.

 

The threads were not 'killed' - feedback threads were certainly kept, and eventually fell away because less people were interested in them. The Macintosh thread, the console thread, the housing threads were all there, and stayed. The same questions would often be reposted, and the moderators kept it because most people don't like to dig for their question in pages on a forum.

 

You have little idea how much was changed based on feedback. It changed a lot. To say it didn't contradicts even this thread - on the last page, the OP mentioned the addition of sprint as it became a popular topic.

 

It is the most successful MMO launch in history. It had a smooth launch. It has had stellar reviews. It is not a 'train wreck,' in my opinion.

[Kiti]

I didn't test SW:TOR (except for the last few weekend stress tests) but I've been an alpha tester once for another game and a beta tester a few times. I played the game. I gave my feedback. I saw a lot of changes made. Some were absolutely needed. I pointed out some issues that were ignored by the developers, or that they thought they were addressing well enough. I got to say "I told you so" a few times after launch. But although I was there to help make the game better, I couldn't tell the developers what to do. I didn't set their priorities. I didn't actually make the game, I just played it a bunch and made suggestions. Blaming the testers for every bug and questionable design decision doesn't really make a lot of sense. Edited January 20, 2012 by Kiti

[Balrizangor]

You have FAILED me for the last time, forum guy...

 

*pinching gesture*

 

Can you feel that???

 

Almost spit my coffee on the screen after reading the OPs post and then this ...

 

 

Well Played

[Lankybrit]

OP: You didn't fail me at all. Thanks for polishing the game to it's current state where I can have a blast in game and thoroughly enjoy myself.

 

Cheers.

[banecolton]

Great post OP

 

I am among those that are un-subing for a few months until some of the bigger issues get taken care of so clearly I want the game to be successful, but it seems like you only get the two extremes on the forums: fanboi “everything is perfect and if you don’t agree then shut up” or hater “everything is terrible and if you don’t agree then shut up”.

 

And honestly I have a hard time not “tweaking the tail” of either type…

 

Makes it hard to communicate.

Nice to see a constructive thread for a change.

 

+1 as they say.

[PjPablo]

I am squashin your head!!!

 

[thasaint]

First Off. I alpha tested and beta tested the game for nearly 2 years. I am part of a small population who has failed both parties. We didn't do our job making sure Bioware got all the info they needed. A lot of us just played because we enjoyed the game and ignored feedback requests. We were willing to ignore bugs because we recognized that it was just a testing phase. For that I am truly sorry.

 

Second I can't blame Bioware or even EA for their lack of support during it's launch. If you truly read through all the primary complaints about the game and feedback requests you will start to realize just how much of their attention is spent trying to make the game a solid experience before they lose too many subscribers. As a community that cares about the success of this game we should be giving them a break (yes a F2P period while they fix a lot of major bugs would be nice, but there are some of us who are still enjoying the game regardless).

 

And third-- Actually I don't want to count points anymore. I played WoW for years and was a casual raider. I grew to despise WoW because of raid drama and relying on others for progression. Because SWTOR requires the same thing I began to hate it too. I hate the holy trinity (Tank, Healer, DPS or Tank, Healer, CC for the vets) because it means if I want to play a damage dealer I am stuck in a low priority queue for group progression activities, and if I play a healer or a tank I get the progression but half the enjoyment. I could write a list of things I hate but that's my problem... I never stopped to lay out things I liked-- And then coupled that with things that are expected to come to SW:TOR in the future. Also some of these things are different than WoW.

 

*I Like the space combat (while limiting) it's a fun distraction and a good way for earning extra coin and XP.

 

*I like exploring and killing mindless numbers of mobs for no reason other than because I enjoy it... Eventually I find myself running across rare drops and an extra bag of coin as a result.

 

*Even though PvP is horribly incomplete and has almost come to a stand still in illium since the arrival of v1.1 I still enjoy the epic bag rewards for completeing dailies and turning in comms (Yes they take way too long to earn but it's a nice little prize at the end of a long journey). I would like to see gear rewards for players who perform extremely well in WZs or a seperate set of tokens that can be used to buy fancy toys.

 

*I find the orange gear option a nice way of further customizing my character as I progress through the game. It may feel off now but it's application and possibilities could really be a big thing in the near future.

 

*I enjoy some of the story line cutscenes, they may feel like sugar coating at times but other times it's a real treat.

 

It's Biowares responsibility to make this game what we wanted it to be. But it's our responsibility to tell them what that is. Shame on the beta testers (myself especially) for not giving good feedback... Shame on EA for their Greed and time constraints causing an early release. And shame on all of us for ************ or hating on each other instead of giving Bioware what they are dying for. Solid Info.

 

You can go back to WoW or whatever MMO that you have been grinding through for years but I'm asking that you give the game a few months and become a part of making something great. Lay off on customer support and try to only give feedback on the forums that is helpful and less hateful. Now I now I am asking for world peace here but sooner or later you kids are going to realize that we are all hear because we share a common interest and we should get along because of that fact... Instead of appearing functionally retarded.

 

For those who are having a hard time with the game let me throw this at you, I hated the game and I learned that in order to enjoy this meal it's best eaten slow. Try to savor the nice little things while giving Bioware a chance to work on the massive amounts of big things.

 

Once again I am sorry I failed you as an alpha/beta tester.

 

Doesn't matter bro:

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37273/Interview_BioWare_On_Wrapping_Up_The_Old_Republic.php

 

"The thing about it is, it's important to get people to test your game, but the beta tests are more for finding out if your technology's going to stand up, and finding some small tweaks and changes. But all the big changes that we've been making were planned from way before, because we've been playing the game ourselves. If we didn't figure this stuff out, we'd be terrible game designers. So, internally we figured out a lot of the problems early on.

 

But at the same time, it's good for fans to feel like they're having an impact, and sometimes they do. Sometimes they do point out information that is a little bit surprising, but nothing hugely surprising. There's been surprises on the project, but mostly they've come from us playtesting this stuff."

 

Let's be honest... they weren't listening to you anyway bro.

[Huntcore]

good post +1

[Cutiecat]

OP: You didn't fail me at all. Thanks for polishing the game to it's current state where I can have a blast in game and thoroughly enjoy myself.

 

Cheers.

 

Yeah, the game is polished. Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahaa.

[Sunsoar]

We privided tons of feedback. Tons of it. Only thing I can remember that they did change without saying "this was something already in the works" was tanks 31 point talents. They used to be generic def cooldowns that are now earlier in the tree. Youre welcome.

 

Everything else they ignored (ability delay, UI, etc).

 

Not the beta testers fault, nor the ptr testers. James is a liar and only after negative news releases and threats of sub losses did they "listen to the players".

[Lamech]

For a beta tester you forgot when the actually stated they didn't need our feedback only the data from playing. It was pretty evident during the Beta's that they did not listen to the feedback.

 

Like when they changed companions able to die during the storyline to not being able to die due to commotion or the forums....

 

or are we ignoring that change from beta feedback?

 

I genuinely felt distraught at my companion dying. The difference for me was that I found it good storytelling, others felt it gimped their character. They changed it.

 

Oh, wait, am I ruining the EVIDENT nature of your argument?

 

It's entirely subjective. Not evident.

[Cancrizans]

Great post OP

 

I am among those that are un-subing for a few months until some of the bigger issues get taken care of so clearly I want the game to be successful, but it seems like you only get the two extremes on the forums: fanboi “everything is perfect and if you don’t agree then shut up” or hater “everything is terrible and if you don’t agree then shut up”.

 

And honestly I have a hard time not “tweaking the tail” of either type…

 

Makes it hard to communicate.

Nice to see a constructive thread for a change.

 

+1 as they say.

 

Ya keep enjoying the things other MMOs lack, like an intelligent loot system that actually takes into account which classes are in the Flashpoint.

 

OMG, what? WoW dungeons drop completely irrelevant loot 50% of the time? Well, heck, it is the greatest MMO ever, that is how MMOs SHOULD be. How dare SWTOR INNOVATE by giving people CLASS RELATED loot in instances? Surely combat logs and 3rd party mods are more important than LOOT WE CAN ACTUALLY USE!!!!

 

Eff you Bioware and your lack of innovation!

Edited January 20, 2012 by Cancrizans