Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 well this the thing ive played WoW and Rift both are games that offered this feature and i have never seen the problem people bring up as if they never played games with it. only time i see a certain class get benched was heroic death wing and only HIGH end guilds did that not your average guild they kept trying their way. other then that there is nothing wrong with this people just hate it for no reason with no proof. why would a guild stack certain classes when the gear drops which happen to me they do not have the class in the raid with them and it is a waste a huge waste at that. EDIT my first HM kill in EV the first boss he dropped 2 IA items we didnt have one in our group so it was wasted my friend had the same luck his first kill it was 2 BH helms and they did not have a BH in their group. You don't need to preach it to me mate, I'm all for duel spec. But it is a valid point and it deserves to be discussed. Both those games you mentioned either had multi-specs as a main gameplay feature or had a design that meant that the skill points actually changed the class dramaticly between specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumanchu_Fow Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You are technically correct, but your implication is wrong. There is mountains of evidence to suggest that dual speccing didn't give hybrids an unnecessary leg up or 'kill' pure dps classes in wow I would expect it to be the same in SWTOR. If your roled one of the two pure dps ACs in the game you knew what you were getting into it mean you liked to dps so much you would like the choice to do it in many different ways. People who rolled hyrbids did it for the utility. Besides in terms of this hypothetical ops argument; How many hybrids actually use their offspec on progression raid fights (remember you have to acquire and maintain two sets of gear to fulfill two different roles)? In my HM raiding guild on WoW I was the only off spec tank who actually had to tank progression bosses in the top 4 guilds on my server. Sure everyone had a hodge podge off spec set they pulled together from random drops but most people just used that trash for 5mans. People who specced for healing when they had a dps tree knew what they were getting into. The only difference is they can at least pay to change to a different tree. Your argument is pure crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) That would make sense if a Healer Sorc and a DPS Sorc had different story lines. Jesus some people on this site are... silly. A healer Sorc and a DPS sniper have different stories. Edited February 5, 2012 by Uben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You don't need to preach it to me mate, I'm all for duel spec. But it is a valid point and it deserves to be discussed. Both those games you mentioned either had multi-specs as a main gameplay feature or had a design that meant that the skill points actually changed the class dramaticly between specs. yeah the skills points change how the spec is played just like how it is in swtor now for Rift i think is the only game that made the quad spec as a starting choice WoW was added in about 5 years later after release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Ok so for you it's totaly normal the least played role in the game should dedicate himself for the guild until EVERY one is gear up. I mean everyone get bored after running the same thing over and over. You need to understand that, I know lot of ppl who quits after the have all their gear (I try to not raid with them). You should know that by now. So imagine the tank who help his guildies a lot but after a while he is tired to run same flashpoints. Can he takes a break or you kick him out of your guild? Point? So since tanks are the least played class (think thats what you are saying) that once they get their gear they dont want to be a team player anymore? Your solution is allow duel specs so someone else can fill the tank that left role so you as a dps can get all your gear and quit while the one that dps/tanked is left out of getting all his dps gear because he tanked while you finished getting your gear. Stopping running flashpoints/operations because you have all your get is not taking a break it is being selfish and only caring about yourself and not about the group. Dont mix up the two to try and make a point. A DPS can also get all his gear before someone else and take a break as you call it so having duel spec wouldnt help you in that case. Your reasoning for duel-specs is a player issue and having duel-spec wouldnt resolve that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zandragal Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No. It really isn't. I'm fine without it, and don't really mind the fact that some people in my class choose to be tanks or choose to be DPS. That is called variety and is one of the things that helps distinguish your character from the 1.7 million+++++ others in this game. Besides which, it is currently pretty cheap to switch. . . as long as the point is to switch your role and progress that way, instead of feeding your tendency to flake and wane based on the flavor of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) People who specced for healing when they had a dps tree knew what they were getting into. The only difference is they can at least pay to change to a different tree. Your argument is pure crap. No it isn't. To take WoW as an example (though I didn't play it much, it does seem to be the main thing people use). People didn't roll Hunters and then cry that they couldn't be healers, yet they could quite happily spec for pet tanking and then on a whim change to a fragile as glass pet and go melee. Here people can spec into the heal tree and not be as effective at DPS, but then on a whim decide that they might want to just play DPS for a PvP match or the raid needs a dps instead of a healer. It adds flexablility. Edited February 5, 2012 by Tolil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strina Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I want dual spec also. Give us dual spec. We deserve dual spec. Dual spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 dual spec quad spec is not a problem in other games so how is it going to be a problem now? please show evidence of dual spec being a major problem i have NEVER seen a class get benched for being a certain class as of recent in any game with the feature. Good grief, enough with the strawmen! The other poster, rightly, pointed out that certain classes benifit from dual spec while others do not. You keep over-looking or ignoring that point. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigler Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 sounds like a nice suggestion but dual spec is a bit copy from wow again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm pretty sure you won't see a tank who will run the same flashpoint over 50 times for all his guildies becasue he is one of the few with that spec. Saw it all the time in WoW and EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invitcted Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 People who specced for healing when they had a dps tree knew what they were getting into. The only difference is they can at least pay to change to a different tree. Your argument is pure crap. No not having an argument is pure crap. With no metrics stat weights are so close right now dps can swap between dps trees without having to change their gear. If I want to tank I have to grind up a second set of gear and pay for respecs? I really don't see how the 'pure' classes are being boned here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Good grief, enough with the strawmen! The other poster, rightly, pointed out that certain classes benifit from dual spec while others do not. You keep over-looking or ignoring that point. Why? so benifit? they get the same feature as everyone else they can make a pve and pvp spec without respecing like a mad man. it was also pointed out how many times did people actually respec and use their offspec in this game? exactly 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Becasue you like running the same thing over and over again even if you don't need anything. I play to have fun. I like to kill bosses before gearing myself. But when you did the same thing over 50 times I think you might want to do something else. Welcome to end-game progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 sounds like a nice suggestion but dual spec is a bit copy from wow again Riiiight, because WoW thought of everything when they invented MMOs didn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 well this the thing ive played WoW and Rift both are games that offered this feature and i have never seen the problem people bring up as if they never played games with it. only time i see a certain class get benched was heroic death wing and only HIGH end guilds did that not your average guild they kept trying their way. other then that there is nothing wrong with this people just hate it for no reason with no proof. why would a guild stack certain classes when the gear drops which happen to me they do not have the class in the raid with them and it is a waste a huge waste at that. EDIT my first HM kill in EV the first boss he dropped 2 IA items we didnt have one in our group so it was wasted my friend had the same luck his first kill it was 2 BH helms and they did not have a BH in their group. I didn't like dual spec in WoW either. Especially after they made it so cheap. It is a lazy solution to a complicated problem. I don't know the solution. But dual specs is a cop-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Point? So since tanks are the least played class (think thats what you are saying) that once they get their gear they dont want to be a team player anymore? Your solution is allow duel specs so someone else can fill the tank that left role so you as a dps can get all your gear and quit while the one that dps/tanked is left out of getting all his dps gear because he tanked while you finished getting your gear. Stopping running flashpoints/operations because you have all your get is not taking a break it is being selfish and only caring about yourself and not about the group. Dont mix up the two to try and make a point. A DPS can also get all his gear before someone else and take a break as you call it so having duel spec wouldnt help you in that case. Your reasoning for duel-specs is a player issue and having duel-spec wouldnt resolve that issue. So a tank should run the same flaspoint millions of time and never get bored. What about the ratio? You need 1 tanks for 2 dps in a flashpoint and 1 tank for 5 dps in a 8 man. So there is tow options here. Lack of tank or one tank need to gear up as dps too since if he wants to raid he needs to swtich dps most of the fight. I don't even talk about the healer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfmiolleh Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Duel specs are not a must, in fact they are a product of watered down MMOs that caved in to a lazy, whiny community. In real MMORPGs we pick a role, build a character and learn to play that character. Like DPS? do it and stick with it. Like to Tank? make one and learn to play it in every setting, PvP or PvE. Stop trying to turn this game into the garbage many of us left behind. Edited February 5, 2012 by Derfmiolleh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezla Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It is a well known fact that only bad players are against convenience features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 So a tank should run the same flaspoint millions of time and never get bored. What about the ratio? You need 1 tanks for 2 dps in a flashpoint and 1 tank for 5 dps in a 8 man. So there is tow options here. Lack of tank or one tank need to gear up as dps too since if he wants to raid he needs to swtich dps most of the fight. I don't even talk about the healer here. You didn't play WoW very much, did you? If your tank quits after getting his gear, you wasted your time on a selfish ***** who would never be happy. MOST tanks stick around out of loyalty and dedication. They can't get anywhere without the rest of their buddies also getting gear unless they leave for a new guild which would give them a guild hopper reputation and no one would want to take them. I think you need better examples. Because why bring a pure DPS when you can bring a guy who can both tank and DPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 so benifit? they get the same feature as everyone else they can make a pve and pvp spec without respecing like a mad man. it was also pointed out how many times did people actually respec and use their offspec in this game? exactly 0 If that's the case, why are we having a discussion? If it won't be used why argue for adding it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I didn't like dual spec in WoW either. Especially after they made it so cheap. It is a lazy solution to a complicated problem. I don't know the solution. But dual specs is a cop-out. that is personal preference and im pretty sure everybody that did pay 1000g for dual spec is also mad they made it 20g including myself. but did that change my WoW experience? no if you know dont a solution then how do you know dual spec is a bad one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ... Switching on the fly. I said switching on the fly. As necessary. IS POWERFUL. Out of combat, in combat. It doesn't really matter. Being able to fill two roles in a single operation at your discretion is too strong. This would be valid if it had played out in other games with Dual Spec that way... but it didn't. Rogue, Mage, Hunter, Warlock - all popular Classes played by a very large number of people... and all of them pure Damage Dealers. I remember the concerns and flame wars when it was first proposed, and none of the concerns panned out in reality. The "pure DPS" actually really appreciated it because there was a much larger pool of Tanks/Healers available for Dungeon (Flashpoint) runs. Because, you know.... amazingly it turns out people had more fun playing than sitting around spamming chat "LF2M need Tank and Heals" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzul Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Duel specs are not a must, in fact they are a product of watered down MMOs that caved in to a lazy, whiny community. In real MMORPGs we pick a role, build a character and learn to play that character. Like DPS? do it and stick with it. Like to Tank? make one and learn to play it in every setting, PvP or PvE. Stop trying to turn this game into the garbage many of us left behind. What about the tank you bench in a raid since you need 1 for 90% of the fight in a 8 man operative. It seems he chooses the wrong role most of the fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If that's the case, why are we having a discussion? If it won't be used why argue for adding it in? ever heard of the word convenience? and the argument i made is just for RAID/operations what ever you want to call them. but for somebody that want to PVP and PVE different story it will help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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