peaceandpassion Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Im not going to continue to argue with the "roll an alt" reply, its simply not viable or even a valid solution to the current endgame issue. I have given figures to why duel spec is needed and had no1 give a valid argument against it. This is just a pointless discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Solution: get rid of specs altogether. That is what wow did....lols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanni Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 last post on page 27 Not a very good arguement, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 this would screw us true dps people, respecc from dps to dps while others can play both tank/dps/healer if what op suggest comes true. roll an alt or pay the cost, your suggestion is not fair for all partys. what? clearly you havent played a game that offered it you can NOT be 2 specs at the sametime it 1 one spec while in combat you can change it after combat ends but what would that do since the fight is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleanden Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 not really arguing just asking simple questions. no matter how you present dual spec the anti dual spec people out there wont change their mind it is the nostalgia people that want their first MMO experience back and forget times change and gaming in becoming more casual than ever but they still have the competitive gameplay with it so im not mad at the direction of games. but idk it seems to me all the anti dual spec statement hold no water especially when i played 2 games that offered it and encountered 0 problems with it. if dual specc comes up like you state i want a free transfer from gunslinger to a class that can change between heal/dps or tank/dps etc not just dps/dps/dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabarok Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 now matter how fast you clear trash it doesnt help you on the boss fights so point being your point is invalid. It sounds more like you have repeated the very thing I said. It seems more like you're now arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me. If you are spec'd to kill trash mobs fast, it doesn't help you on the boss fight. So dual spec lets you kill those trash mobs faster, and be able to take on the boss. Without dual spec, you would need to be spec'd not only for taking on the boss, but also for speed on the trash mobs. If you go too much for speed, you will have a harder time on the boss. Go too much for boss mode, you'll be too slow on the trash mobs. Some players want dual spec because it lets them have the best of both, fastest DPS for the trash mobs and a solid build for the boss. Not having to prepare in advance for every situation is what makes it easier. Needing to balance everything out in your spec to handle everything is the value in skill points. Which is easier: Having a single spec and being stuck with it, or giving players a "reset skill points" button in their skill tree? If dual spec doesn't make solo quests easier, explain how it would have either no effect or make things harder? Is your position truly that dual spec will have no effect at all on solo quests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceandpassion Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 if dual specc comes up like you state i want a free transfer from gunslinger to a class that can change between heal/dps or tank/dps etc not just dps/dps/dps. You really havent thought about what a gunslinger can do in dps spec. ST/AOE/PVP/stunlock. think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashspeed Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Solution: Roll a new character. Problem solved. Nobody needs to cater to your laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 That is what wow did....lols no they didnt they got rid of talent trees you know the part you put points into but if you played cata you know that part where you hit level 10 you pick a spec? yes that is still there just no trees instead they offer 3 option abilities to pick up with your spec when you level to a certain level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It sounds more like you have repeated the very thing I said. It seems more like you're now arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me. If you are spec'd to kill trash mobs fast, it doesn't help you on the boss fight. So dual spec lets you kill those trash mobs faster, and be able to take on the boss. Without dual spec, you would need to be spec'd not only for taking on the boss, but also for speed on the trash mobs. If you go too much for speed, you will have a harder time on the boss. Go too much for boss mode, you'll be too slow on the trash mobs. Some players want dual spec because it lets them have the best of both, fastest DPS for the trash mobs and a solid build for the boss. Not having to prepare in advance for every situation is what makes it easier. Needing to balance everything out in your spec to handle everything is the value in skill points. Which is easier: Having a single spec and being stuck with it, or giving players a "reset skill points" button in their skill tree? If dual spec doesn't make solo quests easier, explain how it would have either no effect or make things harder? Is your position truly that dual spec will have no effect at all on solo quests? solo quest? what are you smoking? this game is EASY in questing so that is invalid as of right now. for the raids people can switch specs while they are a boss guess what they can just go back and respec and run back so that point is also out of the window so what is your argument against dual spec now? another thing who CARES if you kill trash mobs fast or slow that is not progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleanden Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 You really havent thought about what a gunslinger can do in dps spec. ST/AOE/PVP/stunlock. think about it gunslingers cant stunlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkman Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 if dual specc comes up like you state i want a free transfer from gunslinger to a class that can change between heal/dps or tank/dps etc not just dps/dps/dps. If you had a problem with gimping your chances to get into group due to being a dps only class, why did you roll such a class in the first place? I avoided these classes for exactly that reason, so that I can dps when dps is needed or heal/tank when that is needed. But as you seem to be happy with not being able to respec to another roll, what would change for you with the implementation of dual spec? I hardly think that it's the dps classes that would get more competition to get into a group, but rather the classes with tank/heal-capabilities. Or is this simply the knockout argument that others shouldn't be able to do things you are not able to do, because you made a choice not to be able to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceandpassion Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Roll an alt..... The reasons why this wouldnt work: Everyone would roll the flavour of the month, gunslinger for dps, sage for heals and vanguard for tanking etc this would create a massive imbalance in the game's class system. Swtor was designed for fun, rolling alts for the wrong reasons goes against that idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Roll an alt..... The reasons why this wouldnt work: Everyone would roll the flavour of the month, gunslinger for dps, sage for heals and vanguard for tanking etc this would create a massive imbalance in the game's class system. Swtor was designed for fun, rolling alts for the wrong reasons goes against that idea for the sake of god we are not playing diablo 2 here. sorry kinda read wrong lol the anti dual spec arguments lol Edited February 5, 2012 by genmyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceandpassion Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 gunslingers cant stunlock. out of all i just said u pick that 1 thing to argue against. see what i meen people, how can we discuss this with people LOOKING for reason against duel spec while they continue to play it down. No1 in this thread has given a valid reason against duel spec. The only argument against duel spec is your own personal reason and hate towards it instead of valid facts or data to back up there claims. People for duel spec have given evidence of the issues at endgame and also discussed the solution for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnnabis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) There have been a lot of these threads about dual spec and I'm yet to see a valid arguement against them. I'd be interested if anyone could provide me with one. The game was made without them , learn to deal with it. That's all the argument I need. Edited February 5, 2012 by Meluna rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juleanden Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 If you had a problem with gimping your chances to get into group due to being a dps only class, why did you roll such a class in the first place? I avoided these classes for exactly that reason, so that I can dps when dps is needed or heal/tank when that is needed. But as you seem to be happy with not being able to respec to another roll, what would change for you with the implementation of dual spec? I hardly think that it's the dps classes that would get more competition to get into a group, but rather the classes with tank/heal-capabilities. Or is this simply the knockout argument that others shouldn't be able to do things you are not able to do, because you made a choice not to be able to do this? the last part more or less yes, i made my choice of from the facts "no dual specc" and if dual specc comes in play i made my choice based on wrong facts. i can live with my dps class and only have to play that, but if i knew this game was with dual specc i would have made another choice to begin with. you KNEW before hand you could respecc but it would cost and you still roll a jack of all trades and then comes on forums whineing for free dual specc, it seems more like you are not happy with your orginal choice and now want the game to change in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfeisberg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) The game was made without them , learn to deal with it. That's all the argument I need. ah, so you are against any improvements into the game, minus bug fixing. No more content, no improvements to the game system, nothing, just bug fixing and that is all. Edited February 5, 2012 by Meluna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) The game was made without them , learn to deal with it. That's all the argument I need. the last part more or less yes, i made my choice of from the facts "no dual specc" and if dual specc comes in play i made my choice based on wrong facts. i can live with my dps class and only have to play that, but if i knew this game was with dual specc i would have made another choice to begin with. you KNEW before hand you could respecc but it would cost and you still roll a jack of all trades and then comes on forums whineing for free dual specc, it seems more like you are not happy with your orginal choice and now want the game to change in your favor. Well... actually: http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20110916 Here's the Quote for those that don't want to follow the link (emphasis added): Q: Since it has been clearly stated that there will not be dual specs for characters in the game, can you explain your philosophy behind the skill trees and how you are taking into account players that want to be able to play PvP and PvE content on the same character? - illumineart A: Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP). So, um, yeah - looks like you just made a poor decision based on incomplete/inaccurate information Edited February 5, 2012 by DaxRendar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkoclarky Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Dual Spec should of been available at launch, why it wasn't is beyond me. I think they are just focusing on other key areas before adding in 'extras'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkman Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) you KNEW before hand you could respecc but it would cost and you still roll a jack of all trades and then comes on forums whineing for free dual specc, it seems more like you are not happy with your orginal choice and now want the game to change in your favor. Well it was stated beforehand that dual-spec would be added soon after launch, so I would feel kind of cheated, if they wouldn't implement it. Why they didn't implement it from the start, is beyond me though. I mean they knew that the majority of their players would be Ex-WoW players. So I really can't understand why they didn't implement all the quality of life features these players would expect from a new MMO. Edited February 5, 2012 by Turkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well it was stated beforehand that dual-spec would be added soon after launch, so I would feel kind of cheated, if they wouldn't implement it. Why they didn't implement it from the start, is beyond me though. Time... EA pushed them to get the game out for Christmas so I'd guess at least the last 6 months of Development were solely focused on performance, stability, and absolutely crucial gameplay issues. Dual Spec, UI Customization, Guild Features - all these things (and more) got pushed till Post-Release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkman Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Time... EA pushed them to get the game out for Christmas so I'd guess at least the last 6 months of Development were solely focused on performance, stability, and absolutely crucial gameplay issues. Dual Spec, UI Customization, Guild Features - all these things (and more) got pushed till Post-Release. I think you're right, but then again, what would take so long? I mean they would just have to add a second layer of skills/talent-trees you could switch between. I'm no programming expert but such a tool doesn't seem to be a very time consuming thing to produce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think you're right, but then again, what would take so long? I mean they would just have to add a second layer of skills/talent-trees you could switch between. I'm no programming expert but such a tool doesn't seem to be a very time consuming thing to produce it is how game developing works when they implement something they have to do it right or they can have problems that could screw up in the game like for example this happen in WoW Dragon soul the last raid for cata came out now the raid has nothing to do with last raid(firelands) or is even anywhere near it but when dragon soul came out it messed up last tier raid by make a boss impossible to kill and the problem didnt get fixed for a long time. or to put all this in simple terms for ying ( content patch) there is a yang (bugs) who knows they could add a combat log into this game and it can delete somebody character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 the last part more or less yes, i made my choice of from the facts "no dual specc" and if dual specc comes in play i made my choice based on wrong facts. i can live with my dps class and only have to play that, but if i knew this game was with dual specc i would have made another choice to begin with. you KNEW before hand you could respecc but it would cost and you still roll a jack of all trades and then comes on forums whineing for free dual specc, it seems more like you are not happy with your orginal choice and now want the game to change in your favor. we knew we could respec but not how they have it set up in this game which is overpriced at a point with no cap atleast other games have a cap this one doesnt and the multiplier is very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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