Ellakkrin Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Take it from a fully epic geared tank, no, it is not a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 That is still no different other than the round trip to the mentor. To be honest I wouldn't have a huge problem with having to be at the fleet to switch, although it seems unnecessary to me. There's no difference?! In a game where time is basically currency... There's no difference? If you have to be at fleet either way then why have dual spec at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anxxxiety Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 In a game where time is basically currency... This is where we diverge. If your goal is for everything to take as long as possible simply out of principle there is no use even discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 There's no difference?! In a game where time is basically currency... There's no difference? If you have to be at fleet either way then why have dual spec at all? But there is a difference. You don't buy things from the GTN with time. Time isn't the only thing you spend when you send your companion away to get you some loot on a mission. Credits are there for a reason - sure there is probably too much of it floating around, so why not make another money sink - 2 specs for x'000's of credits, 3 specs for x00000's etc. It's just an idea, but if there's too much money in the game money sinks aren't a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Prehaps a second spec could have a recurring hourly cost for the total time you have it as your active spec... who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Maybe you should re-read some of my other posts instead of taking one post out of constext and waving it in my face? I have agreed that the pure DPS ACs would be at a disadvantage as far as choice goes - that is where the job of the games desgners would show they are worth their pay. I have also never mentioned for or against wether or not people should be able to change ACs. That isn't under discussion here. Why would that matter at this point? They released this game with a respec trainer, a large emphasis on story, 8 slots for characters... They point you to the re-roll pretty heavy handedly. Add in now there are classes that are ONLY dps.. and it seems they HAD a solution and direction. This is not good for you now, what solution to that DPS only class would you possibly agree to? How much work, at how long of a time, are we talking to achieve this fabled balance AFTER they muck it up with the dual spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Why would that matter at this point? They released this game with a respec trainer, a large emphasis on story, 8 slots for characters... They point you to the re-roll pretty heavy handedly. Add in now there are classes that are ONLY dps.. and it seems they HAD a solution and direction. This is not good for you now, what solution to that DPS only class would you possibly agree to? How much work, at how long of a time, are we talking to achieve this fabled balance AFTER they muck it up with the dual spec? Let's not dwell on the "pure" dps classes too much here. At the end of the day, they would probably also benefit from having a duel spec aswell. I don't know the classes well enough to comment as to why, but I can't think of a time where more choice didn't equal a better outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Here is the valid point against the dual spec. There are DPS only classes. The moment we get dual specs those classes will be second class citizens and a less viable option due to the lack of 2 spec choices. Those classes THEN will have to be changed to accomodate another role besides DPS in at least one of their trees. It will be a basic ground work up from there on that one tree. It will need to be tested and balanced JUST as the others were in the alpha and beta time. It will take extra manpower. It WILL create nerfs and havoc. IS this worth the convienience of a few? Edited February 6, 2012 by Uben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Here is the valid point against the dual spec. There are DPS only classes. The moment we get dual specs those classes will be second class citizens a less played due to the lack of 2 specs. Those classes THEN will have to be changed to accomodate another role besides DPS in at least one of their trees. It will be a basic ground work up from there on that one tree. it will need to be tested and balanced JUST as the others were in the alpha and beta time. it WILL create nerfs and havoc. IS this worth the convienience of a few? hello good sir where is your proof of this? saying something that make sense to you does not make it true that is like saying the bible is true and if that is the case harry potter is a real story since it makes sense. how do you know for a fact pure dps will get replaced? i never seen the problem in WoW nor Rift so you are bringing up non existing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 That point was already made. Pure DPS ACs know what they are rolling. If duel specs were introduced they would still benefit from being able to have 2 different specs, but those specs would both be DPS roles. Anyone roling a pure DPS AC would know this when they choose their AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 But there is a difference. You don't buy things from the GTN with time. Time isn't the only thing you spend when you send your companion away to get you some loot on a mission. Credits are there for a reason - sure there is probably too much of it floating around, so why not make another money sink - 2 specs for x'000's of credits, 3 specs for x00000's etc. It's just an idea, but if there's too much money in the game money sinks aren't a bad idea. Woosh. Missing my point. If you think dual spec and respeccing aren't very different well... I'm kind of wasting my time here, aren't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 hello good sir where is your proof of this? saying something that make sense to you does not make it true that is like saying the bible is true and if that is the case harry potter is a real story since it makes sense. how do you know for a fact pure dps will get replaced? i never seen the problem in WoW nor Rift so you are bringing up non existing problems. People are like water. It is the same reason we have FotMs. Why would anyone gimp themselves with a pure DPS class? Your reasoning alone suggests people should be able to play two roles. Those DPS classes only have 1 option in that regard. You want to play a DPS/healer or a DPS/tank, right? To make raids easier and play different things instead of re-rolling... So will they. Take all the reasoning of the dual spec, apply it to this, and you will see it supports my observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Woosh. Missing my point. If you think dual spec and respeccing aren't very different well... I'm kind of wasting my time here, aren't I? dual spec and respec kinda different but very similar goal it is kinda like this dual spec is like a life time membership respec is prepaid minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Here is the valid point against the dual spec. There are DPS only classes. The moment we get dual specs those classes will be second class citizens and a less viable option due to the lack of 2 spec choices. Those classes THEN will have to be changed to accomodate another role besides DPS in at least one of their trees. It will be a basic ground work up from there on that one tree. It will need to be tested and balanced JUST as the others were in the alpha and beta time. It will take extra manpower. It WILL create nerfs and havoc. IS this worth the convienience of a few? I've made that exact point already. They don't care. They seem to be forgetting the class favoritism that happened in WoW. "Don't bring the game, bring the player..." Blah blah ********. If people can't see that wasn't just an excuse to homogenize and water down the whole god damn game, that's their prerogative. But they don't care about what's best for the game, do they? Only themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shruk Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Dual specialization. NOT for Advanced Classes. Flashpoints - Problems = Can't find a tank or healer. OR to many tanks/healers Solution = Dual Spec. With how the loot drops in swtor it's easy enough for all the hybrid classes to have both sets of gear. This would be promoting more Hard Mode flashpoints. Operations - Problems = To many players of a particular spec. Solution = Dual Spec. Having the flexability of choices allows for your group of friends to mix and match their specs to better accommodate the particular fight. PvP - Problems = No healers/tanks in the warzone to give a fighting chance for PUGs. Solution = Dual Spec. you have 1-2mins before each fight to determine what your group makeup is . Then you have the chance to make balanced group. The true bottom line is this. Dual Spec helps EVERYONE! I dont agree. Just stick to your class and perform your part as good as possible. Dual spec wasnt an improvement in WoW and wont be in this game neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) dual spec and respec kinda different but very similar goal it is kinda like this dual spec is like a life time membership respec is prepaid minutes. Wrong. You are absolutely infuriating, do you know that? The power and utility afforded to you to be able to switch between two specs AT WILL. Inside a flashpoint/operation for example... Is huge. To say that they're the same just proves that. Well. No comment. Edited February 6, 2012 by Vaegaknight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) People are like water. It is the same reason we have FotMs. Why would anyone gimp themselves with a pure DPS class? Your reasoning alone suggests people should be able to play two roles. Those DPS classes only have 1 option in that regard. You want to play a DPS/healer or a DPS/tank, right? To make raids easier and play different things instead of re-rolling... So will they. Take all the reasoning of the dual spec, apply it to this, and you will see it supports my observation. once again where are you pulling these facts from? also once again you are only looking at it as a role only when they could also use it for pve and pvp spec please show proof your words mean nothing without proof showing dual spec is a bad direction i bet you can not find any. Edited February 6, 2012 by Vastalee removed OT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theronlas Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Here is the valid point against the dual spec. There are DPS only classes. The moment we get dual specs those classes will be second class citizens and a less viable option due to the lack of 2 spec choices. This is only of any concern if you can change roles during an instance. If you need to go back to a trainer to do it (this is how it should work IMO) then there is no penalty on them except that there is now a little more competition for DPS spots. But one would assume that knowing they chose a DPS class they would have good gear for it and know it better than one who tanks half the time. I dont like the Rift style system much, where you can change specs completely (in fact you can effectively change AC as well) at any time you are out of combat. But I fully support the ability to have several different sets of point assignments that you can change by going to a person on the fleet. I would be perfectly happy if they just made a reset fairly cheap and with a fixed cost based on level, all that is really needed IMO and very easy to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Wrong. You are absolutely infuriating, do you know that? The power and utility afforded to you to be able to switch between two specs AT WILL. Inside a flashpoint/operation for example... Is huge. To say that they're the same just proves that. Well. No comment. are you being serious? dual spec is the same as respecing except you are not paying to switch specs everytime. you also act like it takes a long time to run into a FP/ops when they are on the fleet. Edited February 6, 2012 by genmyke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talsalus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 /agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 are you being serious? dual spec is the same as respecing except you are not paying to switch specs everytime. YES. I'M BEING SERIOUS. They're not the same! THEY'RE NOT. It's like saying planes and cars are the same because they have engines and are vehicles used to transport goods/people. Stop it. Just stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Woosh. Missing my point. If you think dual spec and respeccing aren't very different well... I'm kind of wasting my time here, aren't I? I think your point is that the time it take to farm the credits to buy a respec are equal to the effort it should take if you want to be able to change your spec. And the fact that credits are pretty easy to come by negate the "this is too much!" sentiment that some of the pro-duel spec peeps have? My point is that as credits are so easy to get, more money sinks are probably good. A pay-by-the-hour 2nd spec... could work, you have your points already arranged how you want them - your hotbars are set for how you pre-arranged them, you feel like healing the next Hutball instead of DPSing so you swtich and start paying for the privilage. With respeccing, you have to rearrange all your points again, the cost is always going up - if you mess up with your point distributions you have to pay to start over. Then you have to re-do your hotbars. I just don't see respeccing as a permanent solution to a "duel-spec" idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anagnostis Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Solution already exists: Make an alt. There will be no easy way out, play the damn game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolil Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 And just for the record - I don't think you should be able to swtich "on the fly". There should definatley be some sort of long recast, or interaction with and NPC, item on your ship/fleet, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genmyke Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 YES. I'M BEING SERIOUS. They're not the same! THEY'RE NOT. It's like saying planes and cars are the same because they have engines and are vehicles used to transport goods/people. Stop it. Just stop it. dual spec is something you pay a big 1 time fee for to respec to a second spec without buying it everytime (like a lifetime MMO sub) respec accomplish the samething except you pay on the go to respec so please explain how is this not different all i see is one in the long run saves you money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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