Dual Spec - It's a must! (NOT ACs)

[Poisonsenvy]

Yeah SE made the same dire mistake with FF14. This game will be f2p by the summer. If anyone played DCUO you can see it....actualy DCUO was better than this game at launch (feature wise) SWTOR is following the same path DCUO took devs ignoring the real issues the community is vocal about and the fanboys supporting what ever bs is told to them. This all equals f2p by the summer. I'm unsubbing as soon as my 3 months run out then will probably return when its f2p. This game isn't worth a sub. They should of just sold the box and not charge a monthly then i could understand the game being the way it currently is.

[genmyke]

Yes please. I dont want to switch Acs that would be dumb. I wouldnt even mind if i couldnt spec out of the tree i was in.

 

for example both specs had to be shield spec Vanguard. Fine.

 

But when you are going to make up the talents they way you did, something has to be done.

 

And yes im talking about PVP. While i understand this isnt a pvp game, to say the game isnt balanced around it would be a lie. Look at the rounds of nurfs to scoundrel.

 

If you give me what i would specifically call a PVP talent, that is all but useless out of pvp. Forcing me to have it or pay to change every time is about as dumb as it gets.

 

100% agree with this like on my merc BH the talent (cant remember the name) that allows my rocket punch to push people back useful in pvp especially in huttball when my aoe knockback is on CD but in PVE what does this talent do? oh thats right NOTHING

[TheSwamper]

I'd kind of prefer to raid on my main with my guild than to make an alt to do so.

 

And this is the sum total of all the pro-dual spec arguments.

 

You don't want to have to make any effort, you want one character to be able to be whatever you feel like at the moment. It's not need, it's want.

 

Some of us see this as a ROLE PLAYING game. You create a character, and make a choice as to what ROLE that character will be. Forever.

 

If you want to play a DPS or a healer or a tank, the game lets you do that now. Just create one.

[Fentz]

Yeah SE made the same dire mistake with FF14. This game will be f2p by the summer. If anyone played DCUO you can see it....actualy DCUO was better than this game at launch (feature wise) SWTOR is following the same path DCUO took devs ignoring the real issues the community is vocal about and the fanboys supporting what ever bs is told to them. This all equals f2p by the summer. I'm unsubbing as soon as my 3 months run out then will probably return when its f2p. This game isn't worth a sub. They should of just sold the box and not charge a monthly then i could understand the game being the way it currently is.

 

little offtopic. (completly actually)

 

what was the real issue the devs ignored with dcuo?

 

I always got dc:ed, had some sync issue or something and it was only for dcuo so just stopped playing it, the game was awesome aside from that

[Atroc]

Im sorry sir but you are simply trolling, your aim is not to be constructive or even show anything positive towards this thread. You are not showing in any way that you understand the topic..

 

Have a nice day

 

If everyone who disagrees with your opinion is a troll, I feel sorry

for you. Nevertheless have a nice day

 

Back to topic, it still fixes nothing.

Everyone can make up a perfect situation as an example which proves nothing.

 

And my opinion hasn't changed.

 

Enjoy the game everyone

[Fentz]

And this is the sum total of all the pro-dual spec arguments.

 

You don't want to have to make any effort, you want one character to be able to be whatever you feel like at the moment. It's not need, it's want.

 

Some of us see this as a ROLE PLAYING game. You create a character, and make a choice as to what ROLE that character will be. Forever.

 

If you want to play a DPS or a healer or a tank, the game lets you do that now. Just create one.

 

most people want everything on their main character(mounts,pets,achievements/codex), they don't want to roll alts and have to switch between them several times a day

Edited February 5, 2012 by Fentz

[genmyke]

And this is the sum total of all the pro-dual spec arguments.

 

You don't want to have to make any effort, you want one character to be able to be whatever you feel like at the moment. It's not need, it's want.

 

Some of us see this as a ROLE PLAYING game. You create a character, and make a choice as to what ROLE that character will be. Forever.

 

If you want to play a DPS or a healer or a tank, the game lets you do that now. Just create one.

 

your statement doesnt make ANY sense what so ever you CAN respec in this game right now all they are asking is having 2 specs that they can activate while out of combat like you know dps spec while doing dailies and switch back to heals for their operation.

 

so what is being lazy about this? explain i want a valid opinion about this i see nothing lazy about it because he is clearly not asking for AC respec.

 

 

if bioware wanted us to have ONE role then RESPEC would not exist in this game right now.

Edited February 5, 2012 by genmyke

[Poisonsenvy]

little offtopic. (completly actually)

 

what was the real issue the devs ignored with dcuo?

 

I always got dc:ed, had some sync issue or something and it was only for dcuo so just stopped playing it, the game was awesome aside from that

 

Well just like this game DCUO had many flaws the first few months out the gate, from bugs to crappy UI ect.. Sad thing it was actually way better than this game @ launch. Point is when ever valid concerns were made you were swarmed with fanboys trying to rip into you defending anything SOE posted just like they do here. Honestly This game and its forums actually mimic DCUO its just SW instead of super hero's. But eventually w/o the valid concerns being addressed and the fanboys supporting blindly due to fear of the game failing nothing changed until 60% of the player base left but by then it was too late now the thing is a f2p mess with about 100,000 people playing.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Poisonsenvy

[uruz]

I keep seeing these threads and it confuses me. It seems like tanks in particular (and even healers) are quite common on my server. Maybe we're an anomoly (I play on Daragon Trail) but I actually respecced tank thinking it'd be easier to get groups and then went BACK to dps because I would end up in heroic daily groups with 2 or 3 tanks.

 

Maybe we're just special. I dunno.

 

It's all about not wanting to take the time to look for tanks, healers, dps - it boils down to being impatient [and probably wanting the same luxury that other MMO offers - which is designed around dual specs]. Another post complaining about the balloon ride to the datacrons on Tatooine is a perfect example of this.

[terminova]

I never understood the logic behind ppls arguments against dual-spec. Seriously, if you think your personal gameplay would suffer from having a dual spec, don't use it. You can still respec any time you want by taking a shuttle to the fleet, spend all the points again, again and again. How could something comfortable like ppl having the possibility to switch their specs with one button have any impact on other ppls gameplay who do not use it?

 

There is a good reason behind why it has been implemented after couple of years in wow ... people wanted it

 

A couple years? Try....after 5-6 years, and even then it was expensive to get. Spec was meant to be something you put a lot of thought into, and paid to change just like it is here. People should be happy they can actually change their specs in this game. Older games if you made a mistake, you were re-rolling.

Edited February 5, 2012 by terminova

[SlickDevlan]

mm roll an alt okay

 

1 for tank/heal

1 for dps

1 for pvp tank/heal

1 for pvp dps

 

yep, people are gonna that

 

 

the decision we make is choosing which class we play.

 

why are people even going ANTI dual spec? it won't even affect gameplay, t just makes life simpler for people who wanna do more than 1 thing in an mmo with more than just 1 thing to do

 

First off, shouldn't you be be asking for quad spec? Since, according to you, some people are going to NEED 4 specs, it only makes it correct.

 

Also, ignoring for the moment that simply saying something doesn't affect something else doe in no way make it "good", it most certainly does affect gameplay. If it didn't, none of what you said would matter.

[genmyke]

It's all about not wanting to take the time to look for tanks, healers, dps - it boils down to being impatient [and probably wanting the same luxury that other MMO offers - which is designed around dual specs]. Another post complaining about the balloon ride to the datacrons on Tatooine is a perfect example of this.

 

if you havent notice not everybody server is have a big population but then again not every server has the same luck as other people with finding healers or tanks that is why people brought up LFD for flashpoints it would also fix looking for some tank or healer for your group to find out one of these things happens

 

"i have to go"

the tank DC and never came back

this healer is bad

 

so it seems that you like waiting forever to get a group together but like i said everybody server is different and that make a ALT is not even close to being a solution.

 

the balloon ride is a amazing thing in this game i hope they dont water it down where it takes 30 seconds but i hope the fix the bug on it where it can reset and drop everybody off but hey if you dont want the balloon ride you can get a sith sorc and have them pull people up on top of it beats waiting 1 hour on the ride.

[genmyke]

A couple years? Try....after 5-6 years, and even then it was expensive to get. Spec was meant to be something you put a lot of thought into, and paid to change just like it is here. People should be happy they can actually change their specs in this game. Older games if you made a mistake, you were re-rolling.

 

thing is this is NOT suppose to be older games there is reason why our games are not starting over when we run out of lives those times are gone.

[Leithian]

I think the people anti duel spec dont come from an mmo background. I think they are confusing dual spec with dual class. No one wants to be able to be 2 classes they just want to be able to have 2 sets of "talent" formats they can switch between when "out of combat" for their current class. For example a Power tech PVE build and a Power tech PVP build.

 

As someone already stated you can change "spec" now just its expensive and a pita to do every time.

 

Now Im sorry to talk about the elephant in the room which is WoW . You cant keep hiding behind the fact that WoW has had 7 or so years to develop. We live in a fast food society where unfortunately the majority of people want what they want now.

 

WoW recognized this and dual specs, summoning to instances etc are all part of the game. This is where BW should be aiming for, not WoW of 7 years ago.

 

Dual spec, summons, a movable and scalable ui should have been there at launch. Argue it all you want, but I can almost guarantee you that if these basic features are not added within the next few months the population will decrease and servers will start merging ala Rift.

 

If you're going to make a wow clone, with Starwars clothes on, and a solo story tacked on, it best be at least as good and offer as many features.

 

I await the go back to wow then comments (pointless cause I never left and hey we all need some diversity).

[terminova]

thing is this is NOT suppose to be older games there is reason why our games are not starting over when we run out of lives those times are gone.

 

You completely missed my point. Good job.

[shdwfx]

Dual Specializations - yes

 

Issues: people say - irrelevant it doesn't matter. I suggest dual Specs to my MMO publisher/developer, and I don't care about your opinions because I pay Bioware not you.

 

Dual Advanced Classes - Yes

 

Issues: people say - irrelevant it doesn't matter. I suggest dual ACs to my MMO publisher/developer, and I don't care about your opinions because I pay Bioware not you.

 

Everything else doesn't matter. There are enough people asking for it. All the nay-sayers.. sorry you'll lose this one.

 

For those defending Bioware on anything they are doing right now... well they're not doing enough, they need to step it up. If they don't it looks like a fail. If you don't see this you truly are kidding yourself.

[ferroz]

Ever thought about recruiting more players ?

So, we should sit someone out when it's time to raid? How does sitting people out solve anything? Why do you think that sitting people out is in some way preferable to including everyone?

 

certainly, if we recruit a dps, we can sit a dps out when we do flashpoints and a tank out when we do ops... I wouldn't call that a solution though.

 

Dual spec itself fixes nothing.

No, I showed a situation that dual spec fixes. "fixes nothing" is not a true statement. Edited February 5, 2012 by ferroz

[genmyke]

I think the people anti duel spec dont come from an mmo background. I think they are confusing dual spec with dual class. No one wants to be able to be 2 classes they just want to be able to have 2 sets of "talent" formats they can switch between when "out of combat" for their current class. For example a Power tech PVE build and a Power tech PVP build.

 

As someone already stated you can change "spec" now just its expensive and a pita to do every time.

 

Now Im sorry to talk about the elephant in the room which is WoW . You cant keep hiding behind the fact that WoW has had 7 or so years to develop. We live in a fast food society where unfortunately the majority of people want what they want now.

 

WoW recognized this and dual specs, summoning to instances etc are all part of the game. This is where BW should be aiming for, not WoW of 7 years ago.

 

Dual spec, summons, a movable and scalable ui should have been there at launch. Argue it all you want, but I can almost guarantee you that if these basic features are not added within the next few months the population will decrease and servers will start merging ala Rift.

 

If you're going to make a wow clone, with Starwars clothes on, and a solo story tacked on, it best be at least as good and offer as many features.

 

I await the go back to wow then comments (pointless cause I never left and hey we all need some diversity).

 

GO BACK TO WOW lol jk

 

but yes i agree these features should be in a game i think people are living in the past of the more hardcore MMOs where you have to make a choice and can not change it which today that is something that does not make money with no money companies can not support a game especially a MMO as much as they would like.

 

so to make money you have to have money making features in a game that draws in people not scare them away that is why WoW went into casual mode after TBC because that is where the money is and in Cata they tried going back to a more hardcore scene and lost money WOTLK was their best money maker.

 

bioware just have to please both sides of the community with some sacrifice to the hardcore players because i know there is no system to please both without something to sacrifice for.

[ferroz]

Holy ****!

 

You want four specs for every character?

and what exactly is the problem if he does? How does that affect you in any way?

[Miffy]

Dual Spec is just a cheap fix for a design problem of the broken talent tree system.

 

Blizzard noticed this and are now swapping it for the much better system coming up in the next expansion.

[ferroz]

It's all about not wanting to take the time to look for tanks, healers, dps

No, it's about already having the requisite number of people, and not wanting to sit people out.

 

 

it boils down to being impatient [and probably wanting the same luxury that other MMO offers - which is designed around dual specs].

No, it's about wanting to play with your friends, not impatience.

[genmyke]

You completely missed my point. Good job.

 

you missed my point the fact older game models is a thing of the past which is people are getting more frustrated with this game everyday.

[Sabarok]

My only opposition to it is that if you could change your spec while out in the wild, it would make things too easy. A Sorc/Sage would use a DPS spec to quickly get through most of the trash mobs, and then switch to a heal spec at the boss. Some players want the game handed to them on a silver platter.

 

The most valid arguments I've seen who want dual spec are players who want solo/raid or solo/pvp specs.

 

My idea is to have dual specs, but require them to be at the town talking to an NPC when switching between them. With this requirement, you don't need to be limited to 2 saved specs. The spec offering can be expanded their offering to 4 specs. Solo, PvP, Raid (DPS), and Raid (Tank/Healer). Everything would work as it is now, except that how you allocate your skill points is saved and remembered. As an extension to this, it would also require the spec NPC being placed in more places, so players only need to return to the spaceport to change. This provides convenience to the player without making encounters easier.

 

As for raids where some bosses require 2 tanks and later bosses don't, just bring 2 tanks and stick with them. If a raid can't be completed by the same group of players without respeccing, than either you're doing it wrong or the raid needs to be rebalanced by Bioware. Dual spec should not become a requirement for raids.

 

The value in the skill tree is that you are stuck with it until you return to town. Once you have made your choice, you either stick with it for the current encounter, or you invest your time in returning home to change. If you want things easier, why bother with dual spec? Just give players a "reset" button at their skill tree and let them respend their skills at will.

 

I've never played a MMO with dual spec, so I can't see how it can be described as a "must". I suppose once you've gotten used to a MMO spoon feeding you easy-mode, it's hard to feed yourself.

[genmyke]

Dual Spec is just a cheap fix for a design problem of the broken talent tree system.

 

Blizzard noticed this and are now swapping it for the much better system coming up in the next expansion.

 

lol what? how is it broken for me to be a healer in pvp and a dps in a operation? FYI blizzard is not fixing that they are changing the talent system so the far the talents they have suck for some classes.

 

you have still have to spec into being a healer to be healer in WoW same with dps and tank they are changing it so you can get different spells for utility purpose like arms warriors can get shockwave now.

[terminova]

Dual Specializations - yes

 

Issues: people say - irrelevant it doesn't matter. I suggest dual Specs to my MMO publisher/developer, and I don't care about your opinions because I pay Bioware not you.

 

Dual Advanced Classes - Yes

 

Issues: people say - irrelevant it doesn't matter. I suggest dual ACs to my MMO publisher/developer, and I don't care about your opinions because I pay Bioware not you.

 

Everything else doesn't matter. There are enough people asking for it. All the nay-sayers.. sorry you'll lose this one.

 

For those defending Bioware on anything they are doing right now... well they're not doing enough, they need to step it up. If they don't it looks like a fail. If you don't see this you truly are kidding yourself.

 

Uh-huh, right the only person paying Bioware money is you, and only you. Sorry, a lot more people than just you are paying Bioware money to play the game.

 

Good job on trying to claim victory in an argument on the Internet....

 

you missed my point the fact older game models is a thing of the past which is people are getting more frustrated with this game everyday.

 

Congrats for still not getting it.

Edited February 5, 2012 by terminova