swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) "Most of the game has catered for the mass market casual. Those of us that have played MMO's for years have to put up with a lot of dumbing down etc due to this catering for the masses. The game itself has supposedly lower requirements so again it can attract lots of players and get mass market appeal. Making a game with high end specs makes a great looking game, but it means only the small % of the market with high end gaming machines get to play it." Comments like this make my blood boil!! It's because of us 'casual gamers' that you even get to play this game! I don't know the numbers, but lets say there is 1.5m subscribers. Of that, say 10% are 'hardcore MMO players' (), so thats 150k. Do you REALLY think that EA would bankroll a game to the tune of $200m just for 150k basement dwellers?! Edited January 19, 2012 by Parali insulting, rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddmon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think it was mentioned on The Instance : ToR Edition. That worldwide there had been something like 4.2 million purchases? I could be very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think it was mentioned on The Instance : ToR Edition. That worldwide there had been something like 4.2 million purchases? I could be very wrong. Whatever the numbers, my rant still stands. A minority thinking that all that matters is what they think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddmon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Whatever the numbers, my rant still stands. A minority thinking that all that matters is what they think! Of course, it's always going to be like that though unfortunately, people are more likely to complain about something than they are to compliment it. It's just the forum is the only place they think they can be heard, which in turn, turns the forums into a depressing negative pit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun-Runner Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Whatever the numbers, my rant still stands. A minority thinking that all that matters is what they think!And yet developers keep catering to them. SW:TOR is very much a "Raid or Die" game, that also devotes enormous resources towards satisfying the "hardcore" PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddmon Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 And yet developers keep catering to them. SW:TOR is very much a "Raid or Die" game, that also devotes enormous resources towards satisfying the "hardcore" PvP. I've mentioned before how I hate that MMO's these days put PVP above everything else. So much so that it effects the PVE each time a change is made for PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raeyk Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Comments like this make my blood boil!! It's because of us 'casual gamers' that you even get to play this game, you moron! I don't know the numbers, but lets say there is 1.5m subscribers. Of that, say 10% are 'hardcore MMO players' (), so thats 150k. Do you REALLY think that EA would bankroll a game to the tune of $200m just for 150k basement dwellers?! If you think that, then you really have lost all grasp of reality! I suggest you take a nerdrage pill and maybe go for a walk in that big outdoor world!! THIS discredits anything you say after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimbotcfg Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I've mentioned before how I hate that MMO's these days put PVP above everything else. So much so that it effects the PVE each time a change is made for PVP. Very much agree... "Oh look, fury warriors are now doing comparable damage to other classes in PVE..... no wait, we have to nerf them, some PvP scrub complained that once every 5 minutes, if he doesn't bother with CC or defensve cooldowns or tranq'ing the enrages, a Fury warrior can do good burst damage." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 THIS discredits anything you say after. Not really. Whatever the total number of subs, only a small percentage will be hardcore. Most people bought this game because of a love of all things Star Wars (apart from JarJar Binks, obviously!), so they want to feel they are part of that universe. Then you get the people who just see 'MMO', not interested in the story, just want to speed-level to 50 and get all the best loot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elecious Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 one thing ive noticed is that it seems to be super nerds (hardcode players) who do all the complaining, casual players like myself are loving the game but at the end of the day its only pixels on a screen mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuara Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 And yet developers keep catering to them. SW:TOR is very much a "Raid or Die" game, that also devotes enormous resources towards satisfying the "hardcore" PvP. There is absolutely nothing harcore about the PvE or PvP in SW:ToR, might be the easist raids ive ever done and getting to max rank in PvP takes about 1 day in Ilum atm, this game is more casual friendly then WoW. Unfortunately, this also mean that there is very little to do in the game - and even casuals would run out of content in a few months, hopefully they'll get some stuff added by then. 3small 8v8 warzones (smaller then the smallest Battlegrounds in WoW or Warhammer), raids that takes about an evning to finish (thats if you dont know the fights, cause then it takes a few hours) og OWPvP thats - well - so poorly designed there is no reason for it to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 There's also the additional filter that only people who care enough to come onto these forums will be the ones we see. And anger is a much more powerful motivator than satisfaction. Hmm. Starting to feel like Yoda, I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 one thing ive noticed is that it seems to be super nerds (hardcode players) who do all the complaining, casual players like myself are loving the game but at the end of the day its only pixels on a screen mate. Exactly!! Thank you! FACT: Star Wars is not real! You will not die in RL if there is server downtime. You are officially allowed to do other things in the meantime!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oteefo Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Whatever the numbers, my rant still stands. A minority thinking that all that matters is what they think! Welcome to the world..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Welcome to the world..... Is the truth, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuara Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Not really. Whatever the total number of subs, only a small percentage will be hardcore. Most people bought this game because of a love of all things Star Wars (apart from JarJar Binks, obviously!), so they want to feel they are part of that universe. Then you get the people who just see 'MMO', not interested in the story, just want to speed-level to 50 and get all the best loot! Honestly, if your think MOST people bought the game because they love star wars - I do hope your wrong, cause the game doesnt feel very starwarsy after the class quests are done - and that would lead to not only the hardcores, semi-hardcore, casuals with a sense of quality - but also all those star wars fans (who didnt play any mmo or online game before - cause that would put them in one of the other catagories too) dumping the game like hot potato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadcatGTs Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Why does something like this enrage you? Simply cause someone is not pleased with how the gaming market in general is being dumbed down for the common denominator. Its a true statement, and even you say this is the truth. Though, us "hardcore" gamers understand why it is being done. Easy games that make every carebear feel "elite" equals lots of cash. That is the main driving force to most of the market now a days, Money. So if the Carebears Scream easier! then guess what, the game will become easier. Everyone understands this. Personally i don't mind that there are dumbed down games, everyones got to have some fun with this stuff, and not everyone is up to the challenge of "hardcore" games. So again, Why does hes statement enrage you? Though we hardcores do have our own games we can play. Where the dev's condemn carebears and we have a flourishing land of death and tears. Makes one happy to see such carnage. Plus, I think your idea of what a "hardcore" gamer is, is a bit flawed. Hardcore gamers are not people that play 24/7 grinding away like good little monkeys. Thats what we call basement dwellers. Hardcore gamers are people that love challenge and play games that are far less forgiving, and more of a masochistic thing, if anything. Such as like full loot on death, loss of xp and so on. So again, Why does he enrage you for stating the truth? Edited January 19, 2012 by MadcatGTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kfab Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Why does something like this enrage you? Simply cause someone is not pleased with how the gaming market in general is being dumbed down for the common denominator. Its a true statement, and even you say this is the truth. Though, us "hardcore" gamers understand why it is being done. Easy games that make every carebear feel "elite" equals lots of cash. That is the main driving force to most of the market now a days, Money. So if the Carebears Scream easier! then guess what, the game will become easier. Everyone understands this. Personally i don't mind that there are dumbed down games, everyones got to have some fun with this stuff, and not everyone is up to the challenge of "hardcore" games. So again, Why does hes statement enrage you? Though we hardcores do have our own games we can play. Where the dev's condemn carebears and we have a flourishing land of death and tears. Makes one happy to see such carnage. Plus, I think your idea of what a "hardcore" gamer is, is a bit flawed. Hardcore gamers are not people that play 24/7 grinding away like good little monkeys. Thats what we call basement dwellers. Hardcore gamers are people that love challenge and play games that are far less forgiving, and more of a masochistic thing, if anything. Such as like full loot on death, loss of xp and so on. So again, Why does he enrage you for stating the truth? I think your idea of what a "casual" (as you stated "Carebear") is a bit flawed. Since you insist on using that derogatory term to describe my playstyle, I'll continue to use "basement dweller" for your playstyle. I'm considered casual, I play to relax a few hours a day. I do like a challenge but most of all, I like to enjoy the storyline and take my time to lvl 50. So, does that make your $15 a month better than mine? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutassin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) "Most of the game has catered for the mass market casual. Those of us that have played MMO's for years have to put up with a lot of dumbing down etc due to this catering for the masses. The game itself has supposedly lower requirements so again it can attract lots of players and get mass market appeal. Making a game with high end specs makes a great looking game, but it means only the small % of the market with high end gaming machines get to play it." Comments like this make my blood boil!! It's because of us 'casual gamers' that you even get to play this game, you moron! I don't know the numbers, but lets say there is 1.5m subscribers. Of that, say 10% are 'hardcore MMO players' (), so thats 150k. Do you REALLY think that EA would bankroll a game to the tune of $200m just for 150k basement dwellers?! If you think that, then you really have lost all grasp of reality! I suggest you take a nerdrage pill and maybe go for a walk in that big outdoor world!! You have quoted me here and have out of context misquoted me so badly it hurts. As a retort: People misquoting other to make themselves look clever really makes my blood boil! But seriously. Calm down and take the nerd rage pill you seem to think exists as you are the one raging here not me! The section you have quoted is actually a reasonable answer to someone asking why people moan about graphics on this game. This OP my post replied to was obviously made by someone who has a awesome system and has not experienced the game running badly on a lower end system. My point highlighted the fact that people who have played MMO's a lot have high end systems. People who don't play a lot of games don't. When making a MMO you want mass market appeal as you want to make money. Making a game for the people with amazing systems doesn't make that money. Making the game with support for lower end systems does get these customers. At no point have I said this is wrong. I have only said that they have failed to make the game run smooth on low end systems and to look good on high end systems and instead it runs OK on high end systems and poorly on low end systems. This is wrong. The devs should have ensured it would run well on low end systems better than they had. Hell, the point I was making is actually beneficial to you if you are a casual. My point eludes to the fact the game should run better on low end systems as this is the mass market. Next time quote properly as if you had quoted my full post (rather than the bit that made your point sound valid), this thread would not have existed. You have made an argument to a point no one was making. You sir Fail hard. Edited January 19, 2012 by Arutassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhosis Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If Bioware continues to cater to the casuals and every so called 'hardcore' and PVP player left. The game would do fantastic. When an MMO starts catering to too many groups do they start to decline... Let me use Rift for an example. Rift: Started as a completely raid centric game. Every major patch for 6 months was to add another raid. Oh the raiders were VERY happy but the people paying the bills weren't. There was a MASS exodus because there was ZERO for a casual to do. Lest we forget the PVP player: In an attempt to keep the PVP player they introduced PVP Rifts and a bunch of other things to try and keep them. They turned out like Ilum due to a huge population imbalance. People were ranking to max in a day what normally took many months. The tears from PVP players drowned several like a Louisianna delouge. So Trion starts tampering with classes every patch trying to balance PVP. All they did was further throw PVP off and piss off every PVE player they had left. Fast forward: Trion see's the backlash of their catering only to raiders/PVP and pump out single/duo mini dungeons and a few other things. Too little too late because the casuals had already gone. Bioware and this whole community would do amazing if the hardcores/PVPers just left. It just is never going to be that Esport hardcore raiding experience you think you had in WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eszi Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Welcome to the post-cod4 world, where players' opions are worthless, because they will still buy the game, where challenging gameplay is a bad design choice since it can potantially scare the "average gamer", and where the "average gamer" is a massive noob, around which the games are designed. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 @Arutassin I took this excerpt as an example of the mindset of certain people who frequent the MMO community, not as a personal attack. If I offended, then I apologise, but my view still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutassin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 "Most of the game has catered for the mass market casual. Those of us that have played MMO's for years have to put up with a lot of dumbing down etc due to this catering for the masses. The game itself has supposedly lower requirements so again it can attract lots of players and get mass market appeal. Making a game with high end specs makes a great looking game, but it means only the small % of the market with high end gaming machines get to play it." Comments like this make my blood boil!! It's because of us 'casual gamers' that you even get to play this game, you moron! I don't know the numbers, but lets say there is 1.5m subscribers. Of that, say 10% are 'hardcore MMO players' (), so thats 150k. Do you REALLY think that EA would bankroll a game to the tune of $200m just for 150k basement dwellers?! If you think that, then you really have lost all grasp of reality! I suggest you take a nerdrage pill and maybe go for a walk in that big outdoor world!! To further my point here is the thread and post the OP is talkign about: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=201435 OP coment Everybody has low end hardware and is complaining about low FPS in the game, kinda pathetic since with these graphics what would you honestly expect? The game looks at least 3x better than anything BF3 could put out in a reasonable amount of time and I believe that this game will have a strong future. Ability delay is pretty simple: It's all in your heads (You say you have proof? NOPE.) Everybody is running the game with Celerons and 256 ram and complaining that the game lags horrible and it's just disgusting, don't listen to them Bioware!!!!!!!! My Point: Most of the game has catered for the mass market casual. Those of us that have played MMO's for years have to put up with a lot of dumbing down etc due to this catering for the masses. The game itself has supposedly lower requirements so again it can attract lots of players and get mass market appeal. Making a game with high end specs makes a great looking game, but it means only the small % of the market with high end gaming machines get to play it. The problem here is they made the game quote low quality on graphics so lots of people with crap systems can play it. It seems however whilst these players can technically lay it, it is almost unplayable for them. This means that the game is neither high end good graphics, or made to work well on a low end system. It is in fact very average looking with insanely high systems requirements. This is the reason for people being annoyed. As mentioned previously you misquoted completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mezgejas Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 one thing ive noticed is that it seems to be super nerds (hardcode players) who do all the complaining, casual players like myself are loving the game but at the end of the day its only pixels on a screen mate. Good point, but you havent thought about it. I can help you. Casuals are blind and cant see difference between apples and oranges if you know what i mean. And no game will be better if feedback comes from casuals for the same reason - they are blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissmilitary Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 @Arutassin I took this excerpt as an example of the mindset of certain people who frequent the MMO community, not as a personal attack. If I offended, then I apologise, but my view still stands. Again dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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