Sorcerers: Underpowered in endgame PVE

[Malakriss]

In what started as a test to find something better enhancement options, I have come to the conclusion that Sorcerers as a whole, are underpowered. Both in the overall damage that we put out as well as a lack of raid synergy.

 

So here's the story: As some of you may know there are Ancient Power Cores that you have to kill during the Soa encounter in Eternity Vault that have virtually zero armor / resistance. What is noticeable about these is that our Force Lightning actually does the full 100% damage (or 98.49% actually) that our tooltip says it can do, and that is significantly higher than what we do to other enemies. So the question was, how much of our "potential" damage is mitigated and is there a way for us to get it back?

 

The answer... is shocking. To begin I replaced 4 enhancements (at considerable cost) to Accuracy/Crit prior to my guild's test attempts on Soa Nightmare Mode. The end result of that was that at 201 Rating or 106.58% Accuracy there was zero change in damage. Nada. Oh well, good to know. But something weird was happening while I was watching the Flytext: The numbers would be consistent for a time, but they would also change at different points in the fight. That lead to a revelation in raid and debuff mechanics, that would put us in the back of the raid synergy line.

 

Armor Reduced (Sniper's Shatter Shot) and Heat Signature (Mercenary's Tracer Missile) debuffs on Soa were increasing the damage of Force Lightning. There were 2 Snipers and 1 Mercenary in our raid, and their armor penetration debuffs weren't just increasing Melee/Ranged damage, but also mine as well. Here's the numbers

 

Force Lightning tooltip: 3184 damage (divided by 4 = 796 damage/tick)

 

Against Ancient Power Core

784 damage (0% armor reduction)

 

Against Soa

509 Damage (0% armor reduction)

548 Damage (20% armor reduction) = +39 Damage / +7.66%

592 Damage (40% armor reduction) = +44 (83) Damage / +8.03% (116.31% of base)

645 Damage (60% armor reduction) = +52 (135) Damage / +8.95% (126.72% of base)

 

First thing's first: 509 / 796 = 63.94%. Which means that 36.06% of our damage is shaved straight off the top. Accuracy Rating will gain 0.00% of that back, regardless of the tooltip's claim that "Accuracy over 100% reduces the target's resistance." That is a severe handicap to start from, and it is astonishing that a) we cannot any portion of that back through stats / better gear and b) armor reduction debuffs from melee and ranged tech users will. This is why the damage of Sorcerers is underpowered in endgame PVE, because the enemies we face will innately cut our damage by over 1/3.

 

The second deficiency that Sorcerers have is of course with raid synergy. Shatter Shot and Tracer Missile are part of the damage rotations for the class and can have continuous uptime. The fluctuations that I observed during the Soa encounter were when he mind trapped or flung one of them. The issue here is that Sorcerer raid synergy comes in the form of Deathmark, which only provides +20% damage to the next 10 periodic damage ticks across an entire raid. Not continuous uptime but a temporary effect on DoT damage, damage which is already is the lowest form of damage per hit and benefits the least from a % bonus. Frankly put, our debuff is the weakest and most limited out of all of the classes that a raid can choose from.

 

Another point, which is a subset of the raid synergy deficiency, is that sorcerers also are missing a debuff that lowers the accuracy of an enemy. So in addition to having the weakest damage increasing debuff, we are also completely lacking a damage mitigation debuff.

 

In conclusion, the flat PVE damage reduction to sorcerers is too extreme, Deathmark should probably be reworked and/or another PVE utility ability added. I think if we actually had a combat log it would show that Sorcerers completely flip-flop in overall production between PVP and PVE due to these mechanics.

[Ashkelon]

None of this does anything to show that sorcerers are underpowered in raids.

 

Most classes' damage sources suffer from armor mitigation, sorcerer is not alone in this. Internal and elemental damage are the only things that ignore armor, and there aren't that many class abilities that fall into those categories (Although Sorc does have a couple). Most classes' abilities are energy, kinetic, or weapon damage. All of which are mitigated by armor. This isn't some horrible flaw with the sorcerer.

 

Also yes, some classes have armor reduction debuffs, most don't though. Those debuffs are just part of the classes' kit that makes them desirable to bring to a raid. Sorcerers bring (as far as we can tell) very good damage (or heals) and a lot of utility, like CC, shields, and a battle rez. No sane person is going to deny a sorcerer a raid slot now or any time in the future, because they do plenty for a raid.

 

(On a side note, I'm almost certain deathmark only affects YOUR dots, it's not a raid wide debuff. And those accuracy affecting debuffs, to my knowledge, only come from tanking classes. We are not a tanking class, so stop crying we don't get one.)

 

Sorcerers are one of the better classes in the game at the moment. Don't go crying about not getting every single toy in the toy box when we already have plenty.

[Malakriss]

None of this does anything to show that sorcerers are underpowered in raids.

 

Most classes' damage sources suffer from armor mitigation, sorcerer is not alone in this. Internal and elemental damage are the only things that ignore armor, and there aren't that many class abilities that fall into those categories (Although Sorc does have a couple). Most classes' abilities are energy, kinetic, or weapon damage. All of which are mitigated by armor. This isn't some horrible flaw with the sorcerer.

 

Also yes, some classes have armor reduction debuffs, most don't though. Those debuffs are just part of the classes' kit that makes them desirable to bring to a raid. Sorcerers bring (as far as we can tell) very good damage (or heals) and a lot of utility, like CC, shields, and a battle rez. No sane person is going to deny a sorcerer a raid slot now or any time in the future, because they do plenty for a raid.

 

(On a side note, I'm almost certain deathmark only affects YOUR dots, it's not a raid wide debuff. And those accuracy affecting debuffs, to my knowledge, only come from tanking classes. We are not a tanking class, so stop crying we don't get one.)

 

Sorcerers are one of the better classes in the game at the moment. Don't go crying about not getting every single toy in the toy box when we already have plenty.

 

- CC is not exclusive to a sorcerer, Mercenaries with Concussion Missile and Imperial Agents (any kind) with Slice Droid, for instance.

- Shields are the replacement for our lack of defensive cooldowns that other classes have, but they along with damage sorcerers can still receive shields from a sorcerer healer.

- Battle rez would be our unique class utility, yes, but is one that cannot be stacked since you are limited to one per 5 minutes (essentially per boss attempt). In kills where everything goes as planned and no one dies unexpectedly, it offers no benefit whatsoever.

- While I am sure that deathmark affects does affect other people's DoTs including weaker DoTs from a Sorcerer healer, bleeds or even corrosive dart, not working for the raid would mean we have zero debuffs with any utility or raid synergy at all.

- Accuracy debuffs are from Snipers and Marauders for DPS and Powertechs for tanking. Possibly others that I'm not thinking of

 

Sorcerer healers are obviously highly desired in either PVE or PVP but our toybox, especially as damage dealers, is not as plentiful as you think. We also do not have any execute range (low health) attacks, we do not have a cooldown reset ability for burst attacks like some other classes do. Our one cooldown, Recklessness, becomes less and less useful with higher crit rating because one or both abilities would be likely to crit anyways. The nature of our class is that we rely on various procs and ramp up time to achieve our maximum damage, which is great for sustained damage, but not great for time limited bursts.

 

Some examples of this would be killing mind traps on Soa or his vulnerabilities in the final phase, taking down Carbonizer droids on Jarg & Sorno, vulnerabilities on G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator, etc etc. Basically anything with 10-20 second burst periods or additional enemies that must die ASAP we are outperformed by other classes. Having to "save" our death field and crushing darkness because they are on 15 second cooldowns means we are putting out less damage, and just trying to meet the demands that other burst classes already can do.

 

Damage sorcerers operate as something that is self-sufficient, but also selfish with no boosts or boons to help the rest of the operation. It would be one thing if we made up for that with higher damage, but all number crunching so far shows is large penalties with only limited stat increases to compensate for them. Stacking Crit / Surge can only go so far.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Malakriss

[zYNNN]

Why anyone Sorc would use Accuracy in PvE in beyond me. Just look at our Force Master gear, should give you a clear answer.

 

Accuracy (above 100%) doesn't add ArP, all it does it reduce the targets chance to dodge, hence why it's a useless stat outside PvE.

 

If you want to start this discussion, at least give us a specc, and prio you were using. A video would be even better.

 

At this moment we simply do not know nor have the tools to measure where Sorcs or other classes are in terms of DPS.

 

I'll re-iterate for yourself and your guild, Accuracy does nothing for Sorcs.

 

 

And about Force Lightning, it's nothing but a filler for us. It falls behind Affliction > Death Field (w/ Death Mark) >Crushing darkness > Creeping terror and Wrath'd CL in terms of DPS. The fact that

Edited January 19, 2012 by zYNNN

[Walldorf]

Sorcs are simply the heal ******es ^^. Stick to what you good for and twink a dd and thats it ^^. In a few patches our healing is maybe nerfed and the dps will be buffed (fixed).

[Ashkelon]

OP, all you managed to get across in most of your reply is that yes, we bring things to a fight, but other classes also bring those things. Which is the case for almost every single utility/buff/debuff out there. There's almost nothing out there that makes 1 single class/spec mandatory to bring to a raid. You bring your kit to a raid, a good kit, other people bring theirs, and there is going to most likely be overlap between everybody's kits.

 

It would be one thing if we made up for that with higher damage, but all number crunching so far shows is large penalties with only limited stat increases to compensate for them. Stacking Crit / Surge can only go so far.

 

I can barely tell what you're even trying to say here. That sorcerers scale poorly? There's absolutely zero evidence of that, other than the diminishing returns that affect all classes stats the same way(crit, alacrity, etc.). And that nonsense in your first post about armor affecting our damage, which it does for every class. So, you don't have a foot to stand on there....

 

The only thing close to a valid argument that I see here is that there is some ramp up time to Sorc's damage rotation for burning down weak targets. Which isn't really that valid, since a lot of other classes have some ramp time to their damage as well.

[pathiss]

Sorcs are simply the heal ******es ^^. Stick to what you good for and twink a dd and thats it ^^. In a few patches our healing is maybe nerfed and the dps will be buffed (fixed).

 

If they nerf sorcerer healing at all, it will go from being almost no reason to running heal spec to NO reason at all to. Healers in swtor have the least amount of tools available to them to keep people alive in any mmo I have played to date, dating back to the launch of DAOC.

 

In PvP that is .... I could care less about mindless PvE encounters.

Edited January 19, 2012 by pathiss

[spellegren]

If they nerf sorcerer healing at all, it will go from being almost no reason to running heal spec to NO reason at all to. Healers in swtor have the least amount of tools available to them to keep people alive in any mmo I have played to date, dating back to the launch of DAOC.

 

In PvP that is .... I could care less about mindless PvE encounters.

 

I don't know what healers you are playing with or against, but good healers make all the difference in the world in pre-made vs pre-made pvp.

[pathiss]

Take note on what I actually wrote, not what you think I wrote.

 

Yes a good healer can make a difference. No denying that as I am pretty sure the 500k+ in healing I can spit out in warfronts make a difference.

[mangarrage]

IMO which I am fully confident once we get some kind of dmg log, I think t will be found out that the sorc has one of the highest dps class over the course of a long fight ie raid boss

 

They will also be highest dps on any encounter that has alot of adds at once due to our aoe being unlimted and BH has 1min cooldown (i think)

 

Now clearing out trash and stuff I would say the BH by far does a better burst but their maintenance of heat levels will make them lag behind sorc in a long fight

 

I honestly do not know anything on sniper or even assassins but I think the class is just fine, but we'll see someday soon

 

And btw the accuracy "issue" was discussed a few weeks ago and it was firmly concluded that sorc do not benefit at all from having extra accuraccy.

 

There is quite a few topics on that already including a sticky in the forum

 

The only thing I see at all missing is a big boom spell doesnt matter if 3min cooldown and st only or not but that is one thing I see missing

[PhantomKnight]

(On a side note, I'm almost certain deathmark only affects YOUR dots, it's not a raid wide debuff. And those accuracy affecting debuffs, to my knowledge, only come from tanking classes. We are not a tanking class, so stop crying we don't get one.)

 

You are very wrong.

 

1) Deathmark affects all DoTs currently. Probably a bug, but it does.

2) Last I checked, agents weren't a tanking class, they get an accuracy debuff as well.

3) Its a pretty known fact that if you aren't a sniper you aren't doing top DPS. I don't know why people are trying to defend sorcs right now.

[frmorrison]

You are very wrong.

 

1) Deathmark affects all DoTs currently. Probably a bug, but it does.

2) Last I checked, agents weren't a tanking class, they get an accuracy debuff as well.

3) Its a pretty known fact that if you aren't a sniper you aren't doing top DPS. I don't know why people are trying to defend sorcs right now.

 

1. Deathmark only affect only SI's dots, not everyone's.

2. IA Ops have a talent that gives -20% accuracy, Flash Powder, but it is a dps loss to get it (but it only takes 7 points).

3. Sniper may be top dps and give a nice armor debuff, but how much lower dps are Sorcerers?

[moosymoose]

I'm coming in a bit late but OP you clearly have no idea what your on about. I can easily pull aggro off a tank if I don't have guard, hell I can even pull aggro WITH guard and no1 else in my raid can. Second death mark is yours only, if you think otherwise you clearly don't play madness spec. Lastly your an idiot for misunderstanding accuracy, it reduces the bosses chance to dodge/resist your attacks, not his base armor, If you actually believed staking accuracy would increase your damage you should just quit you clearly don't have what it takes to play an MMO.

 

Sorc damage (especially madness lightning hybrid spec) is dependant on procs, if you don't proc lightning barrage or wrath your damage is going to be abysmal to say the least, saying that if you proc them a lot the the tank can say goodbye to aggro.

 

all in all, I highly doubt you do heroics and if you do your being carried hard and possibly have a bad spec.

[Otys]

Deathmark surely is eaten by other Inquisitors.

 

I went heals so I cannot discuss the value of a Sorcerers as DPS.

[Blue]

Youre OP in PvP what more do you want?

[Malakriss]

I'm coming in a bit late but OP you clearly have no idea what your on about. I can easily pull aggro off a tank if I don't have guard, hell I can even pull aggro WITH guard and no1 else in my raid can. Second death mark is yours only, if you think otherwise you clearly don't play madness spec. Lastly your an idiot for misunderstanding accuracy, it reduces the bosses chance to dodge/resist your attacks, not his base armor, If you actually believed staking accuracy would increase your damage you should just quit you clearly don't have what it takes to play an MMO.

 

Sorc damage (especially madness lightning hybrid spec) is dependant on procs, if you don't proc lightning barrage or wrath your damage is going to be abysmal to say the least, saying that if you proc them a lot the the tank can say goodbye to aggro.

 

all in all, I highly doubt you do heroics and if you do your being carried hard and possibly have a bad spec.

 

I appreciate your personal attacks, as does the forum at large. We thank you for your support of the people who actually put the time, credits, and extra gearing into doing any number crunching in the current state of the game which is most notably without a combat log. Bioware did help this by the way, since they increased the range at which FlyText is visible with the last patch.

 

The people who are actually doing hard/nightmare modes (not heroics, but thanks for the insight into your WoW background) were expecting to be screwed out of Soa loot following the patch on Wednesday, seeing as how they messed up the lockouts so that Soa was showing as Defeated while the Infernal Council (the 8/16 people you have to duel) was reset and showing as Available. So while we were testing the fixes to the Soa encounter I was personally testing some alternate gear choices. I'm sure the rest of my raid was carrying me through during this period, as raw top-of-the-line DPS is just soooo critical on the first two phases of that fight. But I'm sure you knew that already.

 

Rakata Force-Master gear comes with Alacrity enhancements in every single piece, so we will be needing alternative gear to swap out mods. I tested swapping in Accuracy enhancements and confirmed for myself that it's worthless. In the process I got some hard data showing our raw damage against bosses is 36% below what the tooltip says and that other classes, even tech user classes, boost our damage (and the entire raid) better than our own talents/debuff.

 

So even if we were top damage in PVE (and it's widely accepted that we're not), our raid synergy/utility is lacking, and if one of the healers happens to be a Sorcerer then it's virtually nil. At present it's more advantageous to bring other classes with a) better burst and b) raid boosts that stack. So as Blue pointed out above, aside from "being OP in PVP" we have no other claims to fame.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Malakriss

[Adzzy]

look at your own armor

 

notice energy and kinetic is what it reduces?

 

So your lightning attacks are all energy (and the sages are kinetic), lightning has the same damage type as a light saber.

 

Consider the two things above, would armor and debuffs affecting it be a bug or should it be relatively straight forward as to why this is?

 

The only things we have that aren't energy (or crushing darkness which is kinetic), and hence not effected by armor are corruption, thundering blast, creeping terror and death field.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Adzzy

[Mysquine]

Armor Reduced (Sniper's Shatter Shot) and Heat Signature (Mercenary's Tracer Missile) debuffs on Soa were increasing the damage of Force Lightning. There were 2 Snipers and 1 Mercenary in our raid, and their armor penetration debuffs weren't just increasing Melee/Ranged damage, but also mine as well.

 

Snipers are Pure DPS, so that doesn't suprise me - they're shooting with a big *** rifle theres bound to be some sort of debuff. Same with the Mercenary or the Juggernauts armor reduction. I'd say thats a good thing that they are aiding your DPS isn't it? Just because you can't do ONE thing doesn't mean you should get it, because then having all classes with it just makes it pointless.

 

 

In conclusion, the flat PVE damage reduction to sorcerers is too extreme, Deathmark should probably be reworked and/or another PVE utility ability added. I think if we actually had a combat log it would show that Sorcerers completely flip-flop in overall production between PVP and PVE due to these mechanics.

 

I don't know what build you are - would have been SO helpful if you posted it (suprised you haven't) but the Sorc's in our guild (Mostly healers going DPS on the odd occasion) absoloutly rinse the dps - so hard its a lovely challenge to keep aggro. You can't win at everything! You are a HYBRID class, which means you can HEAL and DPS . As for your PvE Utility - You can shield, you can CC, you can pull people away from bad stuff (Ill continue in a minute about all that). All in all they have insane burst damage, endless helpful skills which can help progress in PvE not to mention one of the most OP shields there are.

 

Another point, which is a subset of the raid synergy deficiency, is that sorcerers also are missing a debuff that lowers the accuracy of an enemy. So in addition to having the weakest damage increasing debuff, we are also completely lacking a damage mitigation debuff.

 

Makes sense really, tanks and melee guys who are constantly in the line of fire because we know how easy this game is for ranged, a little challenging at times sure but hell this game is so Anti-melee its funny. Every boss encounter has some sort of mechanic that will rip into your melee so everyone decides to take 1 melee DPS and the rest ranged because it makes things so much easier.

 

- CC is not exclusive to a sorcerer, Mercenaries with Concussion Missile and Imperial Agents (any kind) with Slice Droid, for instance.

 

Atleast you have a CC - Juggernauts have nothing at all. One Stun, one channeled stun (Unless specced right) and hardly any aoe abilities at all. It helps AND is usable IN COMBAT. IA has Slice droid, usable in combat - and humanoids - usable from stealth. Can be a pain in the arse sometimes but hey thats it - atleast you have it so don't moan.

 

- Shields are the replacement for our lack of defensive cooldowns that other classes have, but they along with damage sorcerers can still receive shields from a sorcerer healer.

 

In most cases your going to be at ranged, or your going to have someone tanking a mob for you. Why Sorcs would need even more defensive abilities is beyond me, they have shield and healing - the shield being one of the most OP their is (that you can cast on yourself and others) for absorbing damage.

 

- Battle rez would be our unique class utility, yes, but is one that cannot be stacked since you are limited to one per 5 minutes (essentially per boss attempt). In kills where everything goes as planned and no one dies unexpectedly, it offers no benefit whatsoever.

 

 

It does. Maybe not for you - but for progressing guilds or someone that might be bugged or even in SOA when your stuck in combat, can't loot can't res - it is helpful If it was taken away sure enough you would QQ about it and want it back. 5 Minute debuff - bit steep but hey it may change can only be hopeful.

 

- While I am sure that deathmark affects does affect other people's DoTs including weaker DoTs from a Sorcerer healer, bleeds or even corrosive dart, not working for the raid would mean we have zero debuffs with any utility or raid synergy at all.

 

Juggernauts have a AOE taunt, and guard (single target) - along with their buff thats about all thats useful. Somehow Bioware thought it would be fun to put a defensive group ability in the Marauder class! Brilliant! You have a job - DPS or healing, thats what you are there for. You have a useful buff and enough abilities to not need more. However I will state I haven't looked into deathmark and I am not making any comments on that - just the overall abilities in this point.

 

- Accuracy debuffs are from Snipers and Marauders for DPS and Powertechs for tanking. Possibly others that I'm not thinking of.

 

Not actually looked at marauders, Juggernauts to - but makes sense - Melee being in there needing to dodge an attack ect, chances are if your being hit as a sorc its going to be a random move and at range like missiles for example. You needing a debuff for accuracy is pointless when chances are you have another class in there for that. Yes it might help in PvP / Solo content - but we can't all be winners in healing and damage.

 

and just trying to meet the demands that other burst classes already can do.

 

Snipers = Pure DPS, Marauders = Pure DPS, Sorc = Hybrid

 

You already compete with them, and more - provide more utility and benifit. We only take one Marauder per 8 man because melee is so gimped in this game with every fight being melee "friendly".

 

You don't have to constantly move ect, you can just channel, sit there casting and when something bad comes to you that you need to move out of then hey! You press a key and you shift 2 inches to the left and you're safe to just keep mashing dps buttons. Let alone Snipers being gimped into one place to "take cover"

 

-Damage sorcerers operate as something that is self-sufficient, but also selfish with no boosts or boons to help the rest of the operation. It would be one thing if we made up for that with higher damage, but all number crunching so far shows is large penalties with only limited stat increases to compensate for them. Stacking Crit / Surge can only go so far.

 

you are not alone, its not just you that has to change stats, stack stats or rubish like that to make their class better. That is why they allowed you to do so - its how the game is, everyone does it. If you couldn't change your mods ect then yes I'd feel sorry for you but hey thats not how it is.

 

Over all yes - Sorc could use a few tweaks here and there but compared to any of the other classes ingame, or atleast majority of them they are doing well, and fine. Try playing a juggernaut or a melee class where your always having to be 5 steps ahead - then you might have a sense of respect for your classes state.

[moosymoose]

I appreciate your personal attacks, as does the forum at large. We thank you for your support of the people who actually put the time, credits, and extra gearing into doing any number crunching in the current state of the game which is most notably without a combat log. Bioware did help this by the way, since they increased the range at which FlyText is visible with the last patch.

 

The people who are actually doing hard/nightmare modes (not heroics, but thanks for the insight into your WoW background) were expecting to be screwed out of Soa loot following the patch on Wednesday, seeing as how they messed up the lockouts so that Soa was showing as Defeated while the Infernal Council (the 8/16 people you have to duel) was reset and showing as Available. So while we were testing the fixes to the Soa encounter I was personally testing some alternate gear choices. I'm sure the rest of my raid was carrying me through during this period, as raw top-of-the-line DPS is just soooo critical on the first two phases of that fight. But I'm sure you knew that already.

 

Rakata Force-Master gear comes with Alacrity enhancements in every single piece, so we will be needing alternative gear to swap out mods. I tested swapping in Accuracy enhancements and confirmed for myself that it's worthless. In the process I got some hard data showing our raw damage against bosses is 36% below what the tooltip says and that other classes, even tech user classes, boost our damage (and the entire raid) better than our own talents/debuff.

 

So even if we were top damage in PVE (and it's widely accepted that we're not), our raid synergy/utility is lacking, and if one of the healers happens to be a Sorcerer then it's virtually nil. At present it's more advantageous to bring other classes with a) better burst and b) raid boosts that stack. So as Blue pointed out above, aside from "being OP in PVP" we have no other claims to fame.

 

doesn't matter about people doing "number crunching" if you upright though that accuracy would increase your base damage you are stupid, no game has ever done this and no game ever will do this because its completely idiotic. Most of our attacks are easily defended against mainly by bosses because there energy and kinetic, NOT internal/elemental Looking at any players resistances will tell you that its a lot harder to stack resists against elemental and internal than it is to get resistance for energy an kinetic (armor gives resistance to energy and kinetic NOT elemental or internal.) Presuming that bosses are given a high base armor so armor reducing abilities are useful and armor ignoring abilities will do high damage. You come to the conclusion that the boss is easily going to mitigate your damage. Yes we have no group utility and that is the only downfall.

 

Armor debuffs only stack up to a point, taking 4 bounty hunter's as dps is redundant because you cant get past 5 stacks no matter how many people are using it. If you want to use a sorc to its full advantage link it with a class that has an armor reduction ability. This is a group game and when a sorc gets to unload on a boss that is armor debuffed to hells end their going to pump out some of the highest damage, provided they get their procs off. The 36% damage reduction your encountering is the base armor of the mob. Not hard to see that your damage goes up when a target is armor debuffed and it goes down once it isn't same as everyone else.

 

Regarding the death mark affecting other sorcs abilities, We just ran EV and with 3 sorcs maintaining affliction and crushing darkness the number on death mark was only going down when my abilities ticked(about 2 every 3 seconds.) If it does indeed affect other sorcs it doesn't consume a stack so there's really no point to arguing about it.

 

lastly I have never played wow and don't plan to, heroics and nightmares are, to me considered equal in that there supposed to be the hardest version of that instance. I also hear a lot of wow chat in MMO's obviously and get the 2 mixed up from time to time.

Edited January 21, 2012 by moosymoose

[hamsterboom]

we have next to zero debuffs which would be nice in fights something a whole group can benefit from.

 

we have death mark .. which the debuff is gone way before you can cast another (( unlike other classes who can keep up a near enough constant debuff))

 

i know we are supposed to be glass bombs whipping out masse dps but having a unitlity more than a bubble and a heal would be nice for those who do dps not just healing.

#

oh and a point made before it would be nice to have a execute force power for burst in pve or whatever.

 

i know people will whine because we do spam damage like mad in pvp but still Bw should of given us something other than a 2 second debuff.

[Yadamane]

Here is the exact tooltip on melee accuracy in the game. "Chance that melee attacks will successfully hit the target. Accuracy over 100% reduces the target's defense." Now I know defense and armor pen aren't the same thing, but I can see how someone could mistake it as such. Here's the exact tooltip for accuracy on force abilities. "Chance that your offensive Force powers will affect the target. Accuracy over 100% reduces the target's resistance." It's people that go into automatic name calling that give MMO players in general a bad name. Trolling and 'witty' rage comments lost its humor a few years ago.

[jonnybigboy]

Please show me the log that says sniper are top DPS? Screenshot or it didn't happen.

 

I'm not trying to be difficult but we may has well be arguing about politics or god. People are going on about what they THINK is right. The data simply isn't there. The fact a sniper can burst the ever loving crap outta somebody in a warzone doesn't tell me what their sustained DPS is going to be relative to other classes over a long raid boss fight with lots of movement.

 

That said, we're still essentially "vanilla swtor". People are learning and it's the blind leading the blind. I got my cane out just like everybody else.

 

The truth is, and I think most everyone here will agree with me, it's easy to tell who plays their class well regardless of spec. Those are the people you want with you at raids.

 

I'm a sorc healer and I run regularly with a sorc dps despite our wanting for the same LEWTZ. He interrupts things, he stays out of fire, he knows when to open up the gates of hell and risk all that agro and he knows when to keep it in check so we keep moving forward. Nobody had to tell him to interrupt mercs or knockback bloateds in the new HM. I don't care if his DPS is 10% below a sniper, I want him on my team over most snipers.

[Walldorf]

Sorcs are to good at healing atm. Noone should even be in a situation where he (or she) is thinking about dealing dmg. You can do dmg but you don't have the synergys of the other 3 classes. All the burns and bleeds that work for sith warris AND Bountyhunters AND Agents are simply great for each other.

 

The sorc should even have something like electrocute what buffs the energy dmg or some kind of plaque that % scales dot effects up. That will give you a bit of synergy that make it woth to take you as a dd, without taht you aren't the best dd, not the best cc, not the best tank, not the best burst dd, no you are simply and only the best heal.

 

in MY opinion is everyone who plays a sorc, pve wise in raid content, someone that blocks a place for a DD the raid benefits from but every healer, who is not needed ^^, who took a place that a sorc can take do the same.

 

Sorry but we are healing dummys atm ^^.