Nethershadow Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I love all the crying 50s that are popping in here to complain about ques or how bad the non 50 players are for not being able to fight a geared 50 and win.... Seriously though, i would play pvp in the 10-49 bracket forever, as i am sure many here would as well, so why do they feel the need to have expertise gear in the game when all it does is make pvp gaps so far that it just isnt fun anymore. PVP players can jump into pve no problem yet they put the stat on pvp gear to penalize cross play. So is it me or does it make far more sense and take out alot of the problems by putting the stat on pve gear instead? (stat being expertise and applying it logically to pve gear in function) So playing for better gear is great, but i am thinking gear incentive in pvp is nowhere near as important as pve gear incentive to continue. So give other type of game options for pvp incentive that isnt gear, heck vanity stuff would prolly be enough for many. True pvp´ers play pvp for the excitement/challenge of pvp, not because they have to have the best gear. Dont get me wrong, there should be some gear incentive, but it just doesnt need to offer very much stat increase at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) 10-49 is great now. No stupid expertise to screw stuff, no fully geared 50s farming lowbies. Too bad i cannot stop leveling at 49, will probably reroll alts for long time. Edited January 19, 2012 by Dalnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionAce Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It is much more fun. You have to actually play well. Even when they were farming low levels you could tell which 50s where getting by on gear. expertise is a crutch for players who want to be good at pvp without having to be good at pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonchilde Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agreed. Low level PVP was actually fun today. To bad it sucks again at 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The level 50s in Champion+ gear that 3 shot you when you're level 10-49 will still pretty much 3 shot a fresh 12K level 50. Just getting that one extra level doesn't turn things around. There's really no effective defense against Champion gear that doesn't involve Champion gear (or BM gear). I think it might be a good idea if they do some kind of gear score and put level 50 below certain gear score in the 10-49 bracket, because I estimate below around 13K HP (for non tanks), you simply get crushed by Champion+ level characters in the 50s bracket as if you're a level 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiayuan Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 So now you get owned by level 49 people instead of 50's. The problem is still there, but not they have just made it worse. That is not true. Lv 10+ might still lose by quite abit, but the 20s and 30s can match them if you know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabrixmgp Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Cant win anything now. Only way we stood a chance before was having level 50s. We now have a longer queue just to lose more that makes no sense at all. Where exactly is the positive in this change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The difference between 49 and geared 50 is like day and night. I'd be happy with more brackets of course, but the level 50 one was by far the most needed one. Of the warzones I played yesterday, we only lost two or three. I am not sure what made more of a difference, the lack of 50s on the other team or the lack of 50s on our team that insta-leave after the first cap. No, actually I'm pretty sure it's the former. Even those that we lost felt like they were at least fair, even that one Huttball match where nobody on my team seemed to know what was going on. I can usually tell why my side loses (or wins) a warzone, and it's nice that "geared level 50s that need 4-5 lowbies to even only hold down" is no longer significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Cant win anything now. Only way we stood a chance before was having level 50s. We now have a longer queue just to lose more that makes no sense at all. Where exactly is the positive in this change? You mean, you actually now have to play well and not just leech the match where 50s did all the job ? oh the tragedy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxacre Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I agree. I rerolled and now I'm getting so much more enjoyment out of warzones. I felt pretty good about warzones even with the geared 50s in them, for the most part, because I didn't feel like I stood no chance whatsoever... but some matches were totally out of hand when I was literally the only non-50 in the match. Now it feels much more balanced on a much more consistent basis. Bioware did well to bracket it from 10-49 and at 50. I would have hated to see 10-19, 20-29, 30-39, 40-49. I think that would have ruined it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxxacre Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You mean, you actually now have to play well and not just leech the match where 50s did all the job ? oh the tragedy... By the way... ^^^ THIS ^^^ lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboCoward Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I was doing decent in pvp on my mid-20s shadow. I think I've got a good pvp build that suits how I play, but damn am I lovin' this new tier system. Played six matches tonight, and was on top of my team every single match. I've heard the rational explanation as to why expertise gear exists (to stop casual pve'ers in crazy raid gear from showing up and owning experienced pvpers), but I gotta say, the amount of fun this 10-49 tier is demonstrates how lame RPG style gear fishing is in what amounts to an online sport. It's like grinding away for the right to use steroids. Just set a stat, hp, and ac cap so any casual joiners who happen to be wearing the Porche of armor sets can't stomp the regular enthusiasts. This thread has made me realize I'm not the only one who would rather COMPETE, and that the normal story/raid world is for those that like the rush of aquiring better and better gear, and that's why I dig pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdi_knght Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 After a number of games today, I found both the 10-49 and the 50 brackets more fun than they were. Played on my 50 sentinel (rank 58 valor) and 30 commando healer. I still think bolster could use a slight buff in the 10-49 bracket at the lower end... 10-15ish is still pretty squishy all things considered. At the 50 end, I really wish there wasn't such a gap between fresh 50's and people like me. I get that better gear makes you stronger, but it's a little sad that in a 2v1 I can usually drop both 50's if they're relatively fresh. ...that said, in the grand scheme of things, all the games felt much more even, and revolved a lot more around tactics/skill than they did before. I'd like to see some tweaks moving forward, but for now PvP is at least fun/competitive again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalnar Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Bolster works fine. You just have to have gear close to your level. Ie, if you are 30, and have 20 gear, you will get worse stats than someone on lvl 20 with lvl 20 gear. At least that is my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukks Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 15 or so games I had today in the 10-49 bracket was much more enjoyable. Not that I disliked it before hand either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTaliesin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The good thing about a PVP stat is it means that PVE raiders won't steamroll players in PVP. The problem with a difficult/gated process to obtain said PVP stat is of course that people with more time will always have an advantage regardless of actual skill level. It serves a purpose but having PVP gear be the carrot means you're always going to have to deal with expertise. Basically without a PVP stat; high end raid gear (which requires you be 50 anyway) will be filling in the war zones. With a PVP stat, players who can grind more will always have an advantage. Price of being a gear based MMO. This is just faulty logic that goes back to the days when the best gear you could get was raid gear. We learned then that no skill + good gear = facerolling in pvp. Somehow we have turned this around to say PVP gear must have some special PVP stat to prevent this. The way to prevent it is to have both PVE and PVP gear stats the same! Then it wont matter if you spend your time pvp'ing, and someone else pve's. You will have the same gear given the same ammount of grinding. If you get facerolled by a someone in the same gear whether they earned it by PVE or PVP, guess what? They're more skilled than you and they deserved the win. I hate the idea of random loot gear being better anyway. I think crafted gear should always be better than loot gear, otherwise, whats the point of crafting? It is really really sad that I have more fun PVP'ing in a warzone now, with my level 26 trooper, then I did when I was leveling my main. This is how pvp should have been to begin with, without all this expertise crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannythefool Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Bolster works fine. You just have to have gear close to your level. Ie, if you are 30, and have 20 gear, you will get worse stats than someone on lvl 20 with lvl 20 gear. At least that is my experience. That's exactly right. Think of it as just multiplying all the stats by a factor determined by the difference between your level and level 50. So if you don't upgrade your gear, then on each level up, your warzone stats go down a little. If you do use gear appropriate to your level then you get stats you can reasonably expect to have once you actually do reach 50. I've played warzones on almost every level on two of my characters now, and bolster seems to work fairly well. Of course, it doesn't help with skills you don't have yet at lower levels, and it doesn't help with gear advantage beyond standard level 50 gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmaska Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 They are still horribly messed up due to the fact, you get stuck with level 12 scrubs and the whole other team has level 40+s... its still broke, they just fixed one of the main issues. People like you will never be satisfied, your a fault finder and that's what you do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainingcrazy Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) It's funny that the guys who say it isn't about gear always want to pvp in the best gear. Anyways, got in 5 or 6 games today and it was much better. My death rate was easily cut in half, probably more. I was ok with 50's, and could deal with it, kind of, but there were times were it was a one-shot fest no matter what I did. Great decision changing this. On it sucking at 50, well, that you can deal with. If you have a heal tree, spec it and toss out heals. Or, spec into your tank tree. You get more survival, contribute, and a few pieces of gear later it's done. Having to level into this, especially for those of us going slow, was just brutal. Edited January 19, 2012 by rainingcrazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyomih Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I found the 10 to 49 brackets absolutely fantastic yesterday. Yes they do pop a bit slower but I don't mind getting a bit of PvE in here and there. To be honest, having to pvp my way up from 10 to my current level against well geared lvl 50s was a positive aspect for me (my valor rank always equals my pve lvl). As frustrating as it was to play against lvl 50 premades (looking at you Death Squad and Kalma) and being focused down in seconds, it tought me how to move and how to protect myself as a healer. It's much easier for me now to play in our own brackets since I learned the hard way. So in that respect I am kinda glad we had mixed brackets for a while. For the indiviuals in this thread shouting against lowbie levels: Do you even know how the buff works? I topped healing even during low levels quite a few times. As others have pointed out, the closer your gear is to your actual level the more you benefit from the buff (very simplified explanation here but true nevertheless). With the exception of not having sprint until lvl 14 everyone, no matter what level, can make a great contribution since the whole expertise difference is cut out from the 10 to 49 brackets now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackuss Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This is just faulty logic that goes back to the days when the best gear you could get was raid gear. We learned then that no skill + good gear = facerolling in pvp. Somehow we have turned this around to say PVP gear must have some special PVP stat to prevent this. The way to prevent it is to have both PVE and PVP gear stats the same! Then it wont matter if you spend your time pvp'ing, and someone else pve's. You will have the same gear given the same ammount of grinding. If you get facerolled by a someone in the same gear whether they earned it by PVE or PVP, guess what? They're more skilled than you and they deserved the win. I hate the idea of random loot gear being better anyway. I think crafted gear should always be better than loot gear, otherwise, whats the point of crafting? It is really really sad that I have more fun PVP'ing in a warzone now, with my level 26 trooper, then I did when I was leveling my main. This is how pvp should have been to begin with, without all this expertise crap. TOTALLY agree with your part about crafting. Crafting is utterly useless right now. And kind of is in very game. Think of how the economies would be, and respect for those individuals who toughed it out, if crafting made, hands down, second to best gear in the game, and then on par gear with end game raid drops, but it took a LOT of reagants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I was doing decent in pvp on my mid-20s shadow. I think I've got a good pvp build that suits how I play, but damn am I lovin' this new tier system. Played six matches tonight, and was on top of my team every single match. I've heard the rational explanation as to why expertise gear exists (to stop casual pve'ers in crazy raid gear from showing up and owning experienced pvpers), but I gotta say, the amount of fun this 10-49 tier is demonstrates how lame RPG style gear fishing is in what amounts to an online sport. It's like grinding away for the right to use steroids. Just set a stat, hp, and ac cap so any casual joiners who happen to be wearing the Porche of armor sets can't stomp the regular enthusiasts. This thread has made me realize I'm not the only one who would rather COMPETE, and that the normal story/raid world is for those that like the rush of aquiring better and better gear, and that's why I dig pvp. Well if there is no expertise, then people will be complaining about the guy in full Rakata gear owning people in PvP. After all, that gear is still way better than anything anyone under level 50 could possibly have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulViolence Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Believe it or not but i even had fun on Ilum, it was amazing to see so many people constantly fighting, even the low fps issues didn't bother me, even though it was annoying, i started to feel bad for the Republic though, they have some good players but could do nothing because they are heavily outnumbered, oh well, patch tomorrow is going to fix it anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agreed, although by the sound of things level 50 PvP warzones are every bit as bad as they were in Rift. I don't know how to fix the new issue, but the low level warzones are much more fun again, especially if you're stuck pugging for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Nothing to add but thought this needed better than a 3 star thread rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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