-Rinzler- Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 if gunslingers and snipers were any good, people would be calling to nerf them. they are one of the few classes noone asking for a nerf on so they are clearly underpowered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainInsano Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah Gunslinger is the worst AC for PvP for sure. It's not broken or anything, just needs a few tweaks. Anyone who says Warrior is worse has no idea what they're talking about. Take pride in the fact that you're playing with a slight handicap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartes Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 GS/Snip tops damage in 10-49 WZs, well most of the times. in 50s bracket it is not so fine. Yesterday I was in WZ vs like 6 sorcs/2 tanks and basically I couldn't even get a single rotation completed before I was either killed or CCed. Not to mention I was kinda insta killed. GS class is gimped by animation issues. Even our basic/energy free attack takes more time than GCD so compared to any melee class basic attack (which can hit like a train also and even give procs!) we are gimped. This and the fact that most of our skills and rotations need cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reryn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Cover is off GCD Snipe is the Sniper equivalent, and it is mitigated heavily by armor. Also going into cover shows a GCD on the buttons, it might not be an actual cooldown. Even then, sometimes cover doesn't work, unless entrench is up you are constantly pulled out of cover making all your abilities a two button combo. To top it all off, sometimes snipe and ambush stop casting at 99%. All known bugs in the game that happen a lot. So no, snipers are not the best DPS class in the game and we are more vulnerable in PvP then most. Also it's generally accepted in the PvP circles that marauders and snipers need some DPS boosting. although some marauder specs are decent. Edited January 23, 2012 by Reryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So why don't you explain how it's so much better. Also I like you rationalization. What an ignorant one-sided thing to say. You don't know anything about 50 warzones if that's your opinion. I didn't say that gunslinger are much better. Actually I've said that other classes (sage/sorc or commandos) are actually better since they give more results for less efforts (compared to us) and they also can spec to other (non dps) role. What I don't agree is you statement that we have no burst - which is simply not true. You don't get devs attention by making false statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastaDarklight Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 All about Gunslinger and Snipe are ok. Just there is little thing: COVER! Sometimes u have to click cover button 2-4times to get to cover and it takes u 2-10sec to do it - when u finnaly are in cover and u r using 1st skill other chars already used 4skills. In mass PvP in Ilum dont even try to get in cover and use skills that needs it - u will be dead before u even can use ur first skill. Of course ppl with v v good PC can use it almost without lags. Thats good - but why all other chars can be played almost same by ppl with every kind of PC, and Guns/Snips need to have 0 lags? Lets just say another thing - in lots of places u cannot use cover because of bugs. So u have to move a little and use cover than - another few seconds... Because of this problem (and Ilum problem) most of Guns cannot use thei best skill tree -Sharpshooter. Problem can be v easy fixed: first of all fix bugs. Second make taking cover by using any of abilltiy that nees cover. And thats all. We dont need buffs etc - all we are asking for - let us just play proper with this what we already have. Now its impossible due to cover problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolyartNala Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 any other thoughts about Gunslinger ? or does the majority think the class is fine ?I kick butt on my Dirty Fighting-spec Gunslinger--- I'm 50, 3/5 champion gear, mostly champion offset pieces, offhand champion blaster. Valor rank 33. I'm not sure what your issues are, but I have a blast in PVP. Just have to learn to use all the tools, and to pick your fights. Don't be afraid to kite or run away (and then double back). Use your CC, use line of sight, pick off the weak ones first. Don't try to duke it out mano y mano with a merc spamming rockets at you. Don't know what else to say, homie. Good luck, the class kicks major tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reryn Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I didn't say that gunslinger are much better. Actually I've said that other classes (sage/sorc or commandos) are actually better since they give more results for less efforts (compared to us) and they also can spec to other (non dps) role. What I don't agree is you statement that we have no burst - which is simply not true. You don't get devs attention by making false statements. We don't have good burst. We have a burst but when the other DPS'ers klill you first with their burst's ours is the junk burst. Also I agree, sorc's and merc's need to be adjusted big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 All about Gunslinger and Snipe are ok. Just there is little thing: COVER! Sometimes u have to click cover button 2-4times to get to cover and it takes u 2-10sec to do it - when u finnaly are in cover and u r using 1st skill other chars already used 4skills. In mass PvP in Ilum dont even try to get in cover and use skills that needs it - u will be dead before u even can use ur first skill. Of course ppl with v v good PC can use it almost without lags. Thats good - but why all other chars can be played almost same by ppl with every kind of PC, and Guns/Snips need to have 0 lags? Lets just say another thing - in lots of places u cannot use cover because of bugs. So u have to move a little and use cover than - another few seconds... Because of this problem (and Ilum problem) most of Guns cannot use thei best skill tree -Sharpshooter. Problem can be v easy fixed: first of all fix bugs. Second make taking cover by using any of abilltiy that nees cover. And thats all. We dont need buffs etc - all we are asking for - let us just play proper with this what we already have. Now its impossible due to cover problems. I agree with that. I've wrote a list of gunslinger bugs - hope devs will spot them (maybe we should bump it?): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=193002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosseking Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) We do less damage then sorcs and BH's. Some snipers are good, the sneaky ones, if anyone notices you they can and will kick your backside. Snipers do not normally top the charts in Warfronts, that's a bunch of bollox. If there's absolutely one thing our class can do well it is topping the damage boards. So stop lying son. This is my last game (5 mins ago). http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4903/screenshot2012012309472.jpg Edited January 23, 2012 by Bosseking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If there's absolutely one thing our class can do well it is topping the damage boards. So stop lying son. This is my last game (5 mins ago). http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4903/screenshot2012012309472.jpg 6 jedi knights and 2 troopers, class diversity much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krystaf Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Imho gunslinger/sniper is fine. I really like playing my turret tower. There are some other classes/adv. classes that could use some toning down, but I'm against buffing others. The damage of balanced classes is now within limits that make pvp quite entertaining. There are two issues however that have been mentioned in this thread already: 1. Cover doesn't work 100%. - sometimes you just can't get to cover and you have to move several times for it to start working. Really sucks when you're in a tight spot/desperately need to finish an opponent (huttball f.ex). 2. Line of Sight - if opponent/s are LOSing you, you have to get up, get back to cover, get up again etc. while, if they are ranged, you keep taking damage. Or your target just runs away while you do your aerobic exercises. This is why I think LOS hurts gunslingers/snipers a lot more than other classes. The problems above probably don't apply if you're in Dirty Fighting spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samsky Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 We don't have good burst. We have a burst but when the other DPS'ers klill you first with their burst's ours is the junk burst. Also I agree, sorc's and merc's need to be adjusted big time. We have decent burst on sages and other gunslingers, and that's about it. On other classes it's mediocre. On tanks, it sucks donkey balls, it's not burst, it tickles. P.S. Ppl that say dirty fighting is awsome in WZs...lol, just lol. Mebbe it's decent against randoms with no healers...DOT spec with basically 1 DOT...trololoooo. It would need at least 2 more DOTs on 3-6 sec CD+lower energy costs to be good...or idk, vital shot stacking (Damage of Cull/wounding shots should be a bit adjusted then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidyr Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Snipers have amazing burst and decent sustained damage, but their lack of mobility and control options severely reduce their PVP utility. Overall they are somewhat weak, but not terribly underpowered. Really any class that is forced to stand still to do even basic damage would be weak in PVP. Cover, as a mechanic, simply does not offer enough advantages to make up for the key disadvantage that you are forced to stand still in a PVP environment. Edited January 23, 2012 by raidyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertXP Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I think it is a l2p issue. Theres no other class except mercs that can take my sniper 1v1. I played both marksman and lethality in pvp and both work fine for what they are. We have 20seconds CC immunity for god's sakes. If that's not op 1v1 idk what is. Marksman: Insane burst, ambush can crit 6k-7k and an instant followthrough makes that damage 10k-11k. After that just Takedown or series of shots followed by takedown if they are still high. I can pretty much kill a sage/sorc from across the room in 1.5seconds. Target acquired + rapid shots = insane dps. You have to stay in cover for this but they rarely escape out of range/los. Example: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/screenshot2012011503162.jpg/ Lethality: More mobility, not that much burst. Takes a while to get the burst going (have to apply 2 dots and maybe weakening shots before cull). Does more consistent damage and has an aoe dot. You can usually pull more damage done with this spec. The most useful part about lethality is the fact that the poisions are INTERNAL damage. That means they are not affected by armor, so you can take down heavy armors like they are nothing. Example: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/screenshot2012012219551.jpg/ Cover doesn't make you any less mobile than any other class that uses castable abilities (i.e. tracerspam). Edited January 23, 2012 by AlbertXP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I think it is a l2p issue. Theres no other class except mercs that can take my sniper 1v1. I played both marksman and lethality in pvp and both work fine for what they are. We have 20seconds CC immunity for god's sakes. If that's not op 1v1 idk what is. Marksman: Insane burst, ambush can crit 6k-7k and an instant followthrough makes that damage 10k-11k. After that just Takedown or series of shots followed by takedown if they are still high. I can pretty much kill a sage/sorc from across the room in 1.5seconds. Target acquired + rapid shots = insane dps. You have to stay in cover for this but they rarely escape out of range/los. Example: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/screenshot2012011503162.jpg/ Lethality: More mobility, not that much burst. Takes a while to get the burst going (have to apply 2 dots and maybe weakening shots before cull). Does more consistent damage and has an aoe dot. You can usually pull more damage done with this spec. The most useful part about lethality is the fact that the poisions are INTERNAL damage. That means they are not affected by armor, so you can take down heavy armors like they are nothing. Example: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/screenshot2012012219551.jpg/ Cover doesn't make you any less mobile than any other class that uses castable abilities (i.e. tracerspam). Those numbers were prior 1.1 against low geared 50- randoms. And you probably top geared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madwooki Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Gunslinger/sniper is the hardest class to play in pvp is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solantharius Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I'm purely a Gunslinger main and totally love the class personally and while it can be a little more complex to play in PVP it is by no means broken or fail compared to other classes, it simply takes more getting used to. As Sharpshooter you are using stationary cover a lot more yes but you get some decent defensive bonuses while using it and the burst from your quick aimed shots + trick shot + speed shots is plenty good. You also then have 20sec of complete CC Immunity talented down to a 45sec CD and an extra knockback on the aimed shot. Add in proper use of our Defensive Screen, Dodge, and Scrambling Field and you got even more defensive abilities at your disposal and can do plenty well against any opponent. If you don't like the reliance on cover try out something like this Saboteur/Dirty Fighting hybrid spec Saboteur/Dirty Fighting Hybrid PVP Spec. Personally I love using this to PVP with. Its extremely mobile with tons of aoe/dots to more effectively keep people off of objectives and pressure on their entire team. Only time you really use cover is when you want to use the pulse detonator or throw a talented saboteur charge + talented speed shot combo for some crazy good burst on a single target. It is a bit energy intense but once you get used to it and using Sabotage properly to reset you Cool Head and Defense Screen CD's it becomes very manageable. While I may not kill a single player nearly as quick as you may with Sharpshooter I easily pass 400k+ dmg and 50+ kills every match with this spec. Edited January 23, 2012 by Solantharius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertXP Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Those numbers were prior 1.1 against low geared 50- randoms. And you probably top geared. The one with 11 medals is. The 530k damage one isnt. As you can see my team was owned by republics but they still couldn't take the point. I still get 300k+ damage every game now, i see no difference between these 50s and the below 50s before 1.1. Only sad part is i can't get medic medal anymore so pretty much any other nonpure dps class can get more medals than a sniper. Edited January 23, 2012 by AlbertXP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The one with 11 medals is. The 530k damage one isnt. As you can see my team was owned by republics but they still couldn't take the point. I still get 300k+ damage every game now, i see no difference between these 50s and the below 50s before 1.1. Only sad part is i can't get medic medal anymore so pretty much any other nonpure dps class can get more medals than a sniper. I was speaking about crit numbers. It's much much lower nowadays. And you can get 600k+ on sage without breaking a sweat in voidstar if other team has competive healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertXP Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I was speaking about crit numbers. It's much much lower nowadays. And you can get 600k+ on sage without breaking a sweat in voidstar if other team has competive healers. Crit numbers? Just yesterday I hit 6.1k 4.5k instant followed by a few 2k series of shots to instagib a sage. And thats just with relic + adrenal, no expertise buff. I see sorcs/sages pull a lot of damage sometimes but they are still no threat to me 1v1. (never seen over 450k tho) Edited January 23, 2012 by AlbertXP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Crit numbers? Just yesterday I hit 6.1k 4.5k instant followed by a few 2k series of shots to instagib a sage. And thats just with relic + adrenal, no expertise buff. I'm sure that sage was fresh 50, without bubble up, in green 48lvl quest gear. Try breaking 5k crit on champ geared sorc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertXP Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm sure that sage was fresh 50, without bubble up, in green 48lvl quest gear. Try breaking 5k crit on champ geared sorc. I get my 5k medal on sorcs every time, never seen anything below 5k ambush on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriCuri Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I get my 5k medal on sorcs every time, never seen anything below 5k ambush on them. Let me guess - you're in almost full battlemaster unlike 90% of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiav Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I get my 5k medal on sorcs every time, never seen anything below 5k ambush on them. I am in full champions/few bm pieces, and i NEVER crit a EVEN GEARED sorc/sage for over 5k with ambush, even with expertise buff. Yet, i am not biochem and don't have power or surge pot. I crit them for 3k MAX, which is like nothing. I mean i even get 3 one shotted by shadows sometimes or i get 7k guardian crits in my face, not to mention 4k seeker missiles. Oh, yeah. PURE dps ftw, not:D Edited January 23, 2012 by Jiav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts