Lazorous Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Your whole strategy relies on the tank being a moron and the healer being a moron and people being on vent. Guess what... the other people have vent too. Soon as you touch the healer you are taunted. GG. It has no counter. When macros are introduced in this game it will be even dumber. People will just have a taunt target of target macro for their healer. You missed the part where I say to CC the tank, amongst other possible things to do. For example, make use of terrain. There is no such thing as a perfect scenario, as you are trying to suggest. It does not require Vent to accomplish these tasks if the group knows what the objectives are and actually knows they should target healers first. And guard isn't some magical bubble. Even when I guard and try to stick to the healer, I've been CC'd, then knockback so the healer is on the other side of a the terrain (which is where I say make use of terrain). If my CC break is not up, and I'm too far from my guarded player, they can die if enough people focus on him, and CC him too. Or, if there's enough focus fire on the healer, I can eventually drop from all that incoming dmg. Our AOE Taunt isn't spammable, and single taunt is just that... choose one player to limit their dps, whereas the rest of the group can rain on the healer. It's not rocket science, and it's not absolute. People on vent as a coordinated team will always have an advantage over an uncoordinated team, with or without Guard. A bad team is a bad team. Solve that problem first before calling for "Tweaks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnol Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Your whole strategy relies on the tank being a moron and the healer being a moron and people being on vent. Guess what... the other people have vent too. Soon as you touch the healer you are taunted. GG. It has no counter. When macros are introduced in this game it will be even dumber. People will just have a taunt target of target macro for their healer. Actually you DoT both, pressure the healer with damage and interrupts but not CC, catch them in AoE (CC tank while near healer and aoe to force healer to move (preferably while snared) or take damage) if you get aoe taunted or the tank gets low swap to tank with CC on healer. If the healer gets low you can push/pull healer/tank out of range and burst down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Since when does taunt work on a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Since when does taunt work on a player? Since the launch of the game (and Beta). Read the tooltip. Edited January 18, 2012 by Lazorous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeromentor Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Since when does taunt work on a player? Any PvP match, it works. Taunted player loses 30% (I believe) Damage until they hit the person that taunted them. Taunts have a long cooldown and don't last long (AoE taunts lasts 6 seconds, with a 45 second cooldown if memory serves correct). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revial Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) There is so much fail in this thread. A level 50 geared healer doesn't die just because you pulled/pushed his guardbot away for a few seconds unless you have so many people focusing him/her that you probably would have killed it anyways, guard or not. Someone else mentioned the real power of Guard. It's not when there's one healer and one tank. It's when there are multiple healers and multiple tanks. It's far, far, faaaaaaar easier to cross heal due to guard, as the spike damage you have to deal with is lower (50% lower, making incoming damage almost meaningless when you have cross healing). If you have a two tank/two heal premade, and you ever die against the other 8 enemies, regardless of what the other four people on your team are doing (ie, they could be off afk in the corner even), you and/or the members of your premade are horrible horrible horrible players. That said, I'd hate to see Guard removed. I think its generally a good mechanic. I'm not sure what a nice compromise would be, since it's only really strong in a cross-healing situation (it's strong in a one tank-one heals situation only if the opposing PUG is completely out to lunch and doesn't play with their nameplates on and can't figure out the basic concept of focus the healer-and as much as we like to make fun of PUGs, there's usually a few competent players in any given PUG, so this doesn't happen as often as people would believe). Edited January 18, 2012 by revial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Guard and Bubble should not stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Since the launch of the game (and Beta). Read the tooltip. /facepalm will have to remember that, gonna backhand me some beatches! So used to taunt mechanics from other mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazorous Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 /facepalm will have to remember that, gonna backhand me some beatches! So used to taunt mechanics from other mmos. I hear ya. I was quite happy to see taunt actually being useful in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStain Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 /facepalm will have to remember that, gonna backhand me some beatches! So used to taunt mechanics from other mmos. Yeah if you're a tank class and haven't been using that in PVP.. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Yeah if you're a tank class and haven't been using that in PVP.. lol. yeah jugger. i will definitely be using it now. usually i just throw guard up on whoever has the ball, now I will definitely be taunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyStain Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 yeah jugger. i will definitely be using it now. usually i just throw guard up on whoever has the ball, now I will definitely be taunting! Until tomorrow, it was even good for non tank specced people for extra medals. In tomorrows patch I guess it will be easier to see who taunted you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amp_ Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Instead of asking for a nerf, why not ask to counter it instead? It's not really a big deal if you know how to counter it. You need to kill the tank first, not the healer. Between damage transfer and the taunts, attacking the healer just isn't going to do it. Focus the tank down first. I like having bleeds on both targets and using aoe attacks. You can CC and interrupt the healer while doing so. Also, if you have the ability to push/pull, separate the two from each other if you want the healer out of the picture first. Though that is a little trickier because you need the environment to help you out a bit to keep them away from each other. Edited January 18, 2012 by Amp_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Until tomorrow, it was even good for non tank specced people for extra medals. In tomorrows patch I guess it will be easier to see who taunted you though. so against players it just knocks them off their target? I would have thought the target would change to me. Edit: this is hilarious, I am all giddy and excited to try it out. Edited January 18, 2012 by Kelticfury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmissra Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There are plenty of attacks which ignore shielding and armor. Tanks themselves can go down real fast when focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phixler Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) FYI guard has a short range. Knock them apart, kill healer, gg. If you think tank/healer is bad, just wait until you fight some of us warhammer vets that swap guard on the fly and actually use our AOE taunt in PVP. Edited January 18, 2012 by Phixler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmissra Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 so against players it just knocks them off their target? I would have thought the target would change to me. Edit: this is hilarious, I am all giddy and excited to try it out. Um, no, it doesn't affect your targeting whatsoever. If you taunt someone and they shoot someone not-you for 100 dmg, only 70 of it hits the target and 30 is added to your protection score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordLuxon Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Healer always runs in front of me(tank). If he gets pushed back, that's fine still in range. Gets pushed forward or to a side that that I can take advantage of I use intercede. And I make sure my force charge is off cd so I can jump to the silly goof in the endzone or close to it. Thanks to the patch Ill be able to force charge to an enemy then force push him closer to his endzone and force charge to him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattderp Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The only 'advice' replies I see is 'knock-back the healer/tank and pwn the other!!!' implying they're both morons. There's nothing stopping them just moving back into range fyi. Also, immortal specced juggernauts can just charge back to their healer :] Edited January 18, 2012 by Mattderp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The only 'advice' replies I see is 'knock-back the healer/tank and pwn the other!!!' implying they're both morons. There's nothing stopping them just moving back into range fyi. Also, immortal specced juggernauts can just charge back to their healer :] My favorite is them telling them to CC the tank... When half the CC in this game breaks on dmg... And guard, uh yeah...they take dmg. Like I said it negates half the CC in this game. Add to that some classes hit a full resolve bar on their opener. If anything will kill this game pvp wise it is tank stacking. That is what makes people calling for nerfs on classes that can't guard/taunt so stupid. If any class is nerfed before guard/taunt is addressed? People will quit this game at the drop of a hat lol. Whoever having the most healers in WoW sucked (outside arena), and this game requires even more people to play boring herp derp specs with super slow combat where noone can dmg eachother. The pvp is so slow with a tank stack vs a tank stack it feels like a damn pve encounter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumbicus Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There is so much fail in this thread. A level 50 geared healer doesn't die just because you pulled/pushed his guardbot away for a few seconds unless you have so many people focusing him/her that you probably would have killed it anyways, guard or not. Your dps/groups dps is low. I roll in premades all the time, operative healer, im tank assassin, sorc dps spec - not lightning the Dotter shared one, and a BH. Thing is we're not always together, yeah i shift my guards around but when we fight vs those lovely 4 trooper premades who guard their trooper healer, the sorc is enough as long as i'm there CCing and interrupting casts. You guys need to bind your interrupts to mouse keys and make your stuns easily accessible. Then time them around resolve, dont chain it all together. My interrupt doesn't seem to increase resolve, resolve wears off over time. So i stun, interrupt, stun, interrupt, stun (champion bonus reduces spike CD for tankassins) With this, kept up for long enough their healer normally goes down through guard. Also kindly remember a lot of people doing all the whining aren't 50 yet, and therefore dont have the gear to compete, this is changing with patch 1.1 where the brackets are split up. Also nerf troopers. There is 1 group, a 3 trooper premade. They're about as effective as the 4 of us, 1 of each class put together, they seem to have similar gear levels but yeah, 3 trooper premade owning - ***. Need more variety so nerf troopers and buff something from the republic that sucks like the gunslinger? The guy whos skills rely on that shield but i get to simply stun him and the shield wears off and he becomes useless. Empire have the same thing its called a sniper, stun them out of the shield thingo and they're boned. Yay they have a knock back, i have force pull, gg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaScroll Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) The reason I say this is because it's becoming pretty impossible to kill a decent geared tank/healer combination. Especially in huttball. There were two Juggernaut tanks in my huttball today, one guarding the healer and one guarding the other tank, they both had around 21-25k hp. Me queueing with 3 other friends we tend not to lose many Warzones but these three guys were immortal. We're all well geared (champions, some battlemaster) two of us being operatives we don't really have much trouble taking down other ball carriers, but even with the red buff and 15% expertise from biochem we couldn't take this guy down... I think the lowest we got him to was around 40% then he probably popped saberward or something cause he could've literally danced around for another 30 seconds and he still wouldn't of died. We tried to take down his healer (mercenary) but both of them would just taunt us so we'd do 30% less damage and mercenary healers aren't the easiest to take down anyway. Now I haven't come here to whine about stuff but I really do think guard needs to be tweaked a little, maybe bring the damage conversion down to 30% or 20%? I think 50% is a bit of an overkill. If you have any better suggestions then just post them below, I'm sure some of you have come across the same problem. Dude or Dudette .... we got **** dmg & from what I've read, our mitigation (shield/absorb) is totally bypassed by quite a few things. It seems like alot but believe me, it ain't worse than a bubble (sorc/sage) We also got taunts, would you like Bioware to nerf these to as well ? ... I'm no taking expertise in consideration by saying this ... You need to outplay your opponents. Now I'm going to take it into consideration, you're screwed. FYI guard has a short range. Knock them apart, kill healer, gg. If you think tank/healer is bad, just wait until you fight some of us warhammer vets that swap guard on the fly and actually use our AOE taunt in PVP. I'm not a ... "whatever it is" vet and I still do it 'cos it just feels like that's what I got to do to keep my buddies alive at my own expense. Edited January 18, 2012 by NinjaScroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeth Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Go play a tank. Go ahead and 'stack' Guard. It'll be as easy as stacking batteries in mid-air. DO IT, I DARE YOU. Want to kill a tank guarding a healer? Concentrate on the healer, or the tank, don't go for both. Or pull/push the tank away and eat the healer. Learn to Play or leave the game, your call. This. Its why they gave people knockbacks, grabs, stuns, slows, mez etc. Divide and conquer. Also if you AoE the both of them, the tank just melts from double damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If you want Guard "tweaking", then you should accept some Operative "burst tweaking". Your complaint sums up to this. Normally the 3 of you can tear through people who aren't coordinated. But, because you can't tear through another group of three who are coordinated in their abilities, then they definitely need to be "tweaked". Really? you have no clue about the game. the majority of skills does in fact NOT ignore arrmor. with weapon dmg skills being mitigated by every single defense stat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairell Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My favorite is them telling them to CC the tank... When half the CC in this game breaks on dmg... And guard, uh yeah...they take dmg. Like I said it negates half the CC in this game. Add to that some classes hit a full resolve bar on their opener. If anything will kill this game pvp wise it is tank stacking. That is what makes people calling for nerfs on classes that can't guard/taunt so stupid. If any class is nerfed before guard/taunt is addressed? People will quit this game at the drop of a hat lol. Whoever having the most healers in WoW sucked (outside arena), and this game requires even more people to play boring herp derp specs with super slow combat where noone can dmg eachother. The pvp is so slow with a tank stack vs a tank stack it feels like a damn pve encounter. this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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