donlep Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 short answer NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox_McCloud Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have an operative healer friend who, just last night, kept myself (Assassin) and our Juggernaut buddy alive on civil war against 3 to 8 odds (that's their entire team...) for over 3 minutes. We literally killed every single one of them at least once, some a few times. They all rushed back using speeders to continue the melee. Eventually, they were able to over come us. Sure, they were baddies, and the three of us know our stuff, so the skill level really altered the odds there. The moral of the story is that if he could have healed for 30% more... yeah... think about it. Good thing there's a 30% debuff. Sounds to me like sorcs/sages just aren't as good at healing and/or you aren't as good as you think you are. The 8 obviously were terrible players, otherwise your story is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellindell Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Hybrid ACs are out of control. What I mean is. The healing of someone specced DPS is to high, and the DPS of someone specced healing is too high to justify the other. Tanks do too much damage considering their mitigation and utility. So its not really healing that is a problem, its healers. Its because DPS and healing is governed by the same stat. Bring back presence, and take the healing nerf away and the game should be fine. Edited January 17, 2012 by Kellindell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foamslinger Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 short answer YES Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnia Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A healer shouldnt die by dps WHY they cant dps much. So they are nothing. 2/3 DPS should kill a healer but 1? never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amdarius Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes, it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnia Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I mean that healer SHOULDNT die if only 1 dps. thats just .. Buff needs go away.. or make it 15% orso. Its totaly not fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuxllew Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As a 50 operative healer, almost fully geared (9% exp) No single DPS can take me down....ive dueled them all. So...yes there needs to be a -30% debuff. I dont even have to try to juke interrupts when I have tactical advantage up, let them interrupt injection and use infusion immediately after...injection is back up by then. There have been situations when there is 2 lvl50 melee dps riding me and I can tank their dmg for quite awhile. The insta tac adv. granted back when below 30% is OP as ****....you can run and spam surgical probe. Add in kiting with serv. tendon and all the cc we have....gg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinLegacy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes it does. If a level 50 guild member can out heal 3 level 50 imperial players hitting me with all they got & I am able to drop all 3 of them, their is something wrong. To be fair though, I am a Trooper Commando with heavy armor but even so, that is over the top. Heals do need the debuff. -LatinLegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban_Thule Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I mean that healer SHOULDNT die if only 1 dps. thats just .. Buff needs go away.. or make it 15% orso. Its totaly not fair. A healer in full PvP gear is nigh unkillable already. Expertise reduces the damage they take and increases the healing they do, making it harder and harder to kill them as they get gear. Of course, I am a marauder, so maybe every other class in the game can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnia Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes it does. If a level 50 guild member can out heal 3 level 50 imperial players hitting me with all they got & I am able to drop all 3 of them, their is something wrong. To be fair though, I am a Trooper Commando with heavy armor but even so, that is over the top. Heals do need the debuff. -LatinLegacy I agree but this is just low, one single dps can single a healer, that should not be, i think that this is okay: 2 dpsers (what almost kills the healer). or 1 and a half dps. Healing is Much to weak now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiloni Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The operative / scounderal mechanic is overpowered, add medium armour and unlimited heal spams they are unkillable, a sage however cant just sit there like that and with 2 dps on them have a hard time keeping others up and themselves.. but ive received feedback from bioware that they set the bar @ 30% debuff with a review underway and they will probably be scaling back the debuff a little as they agree dps is over the top. BUT!! That said, i only usually die to the biochem stackers.. which come tnite will change! Wait, what feedback? They acknowledged the issue and are looking at balancing it? If you can provide details I'm really curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban_Thule Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I agree but this is just low, one single dps can single a healer, that should not be, i think that this is okay: 2 dpsers (what almost kills the healer). or 1 and a half dps. Healing is Much to weak now. So healers should trump anyone else? If a healer weaves in even a small amount of damage then they would win every 1v1 fight if a pure DPS couldnt kill them by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XodoK Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The operative / scounderal mechanic is overpowered, add medium armour and unlimited heal spams they are unkillable, Please do not post such ignorant nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulletmullet Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This issue isn't with 1v1. Can a single dps kill a healer if they know how to stun/interupt? Yes. That isn't the issue though. The issue is when you get 2 or 3 smart healers healing OTHER players. The entire TEAM becomes unkillable. Right now, if both teams have multiple healers, regardless of skill, it's a standoff. This shouldn't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosmagistrate Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This issue isn't with 1v1. Can a single dps kill a healer if they know how to stun/interupt? Yes. That isn't the issue though. The issue is when you get 2 or 3 smart healers healing OTHER players. The entire TEAM becomes unkillable. Right now, if both teams have multiple healers, regardless of skill, it's a standoff. This shouldn't be the case. I think you have kinda hit the nail off to the side, pardon the paraphrased pun. In a 1v1 with trauma, extremely smart DPS can chain interrupts and stuns to the point that you can bring a mediocore healer from 100 to sub-20. Most healers, will always apply a dot, then continue to try and rotate through all their heals, instead of fake casting a DPS or kiting. In that case, a healer will always have a tough time, especially if they don't kite. Good healers however stay with the bluk of their team, and thus magnify the advantage of that group significantly more than adding one DPS. Healers in a team environment become much more powerful, while by themselves are diminished when they are by their own, which is what most people are not used to, if they come from WAR or WoW. These people expect to out-heal DPS, while killing the DPS. In TOR, it's more like a stalemate, as the healer cannot DPS, but the DPS cannot out-DPS the heals in a short period of time. If you remove the trauma debuff, then yes healers will feel more god-like in 1v1, but in teamplay, they will essentially make their team immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leiloni Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) The issue is when you get 2 or 3 smart healers healing OTHER players. The entire TEAM becomes unkillable. That sounds to me like a few good healers who are doing their job well and a team full of dpsers that don't know how to work together - cc/pressure the healers to take them out of the equation and focus fire the dpsers one by one. And for additional thoughts I refer you to the poster quoted in my signature. Edited January 17, 2012 by Leiloni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honako Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It should increase your life span. Not make you unkillable. This 100 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasdr Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 That sounds to me like a few good healers who are doing their job well and a team full of dpsers that don't know how to work together - cc/pressure the healers to take them out of the equation and focus fire the dpsers one by one. Yeah exactly, tunneling one healer while 7 other players are free to do what they want shouldn't work either. Every dps can neutralize every healer for very long periods of time. And that's how it's supposed to be. Some classes still need balancing ofc but overall, I'd say healing will be in a good place once the ridiculous buffstacking is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadvg Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 every healer can do something other than just stand their and heal wich helps prevent damage taken by allies. The -30% heal debuff isnt for the bad healers that just stand their and heal because they will die easy any way. That debuff is for the good healers who know how to prevent dmg delt to them and their comrades through clever use of CC, stuns, pushbacks and any other utility their particular class might have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinlynn Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 LOL, healers should be nerfed and Agent isn't OP'd. What a joke. Healing is so weak in this game compared to DPS it is almost stupid. Debuff is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dronp Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1st off if ur below 50 ur useless in WZ's right now so you shouldn't comment on balance. 2nd off a geared healer IS unkillable 1vs1 right now vs any dps except maybe OP with full buffs/adrenals getting lucky crits (and that's getting nerfed). So yea the 30% buff is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyDude Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) 50 healing operative here. Almost full set of Champion gear. Trauma can be done with, my heals are still pathetic compared to nukes. Full Champion geared + 3 Battlemaster items wearing Sorc Healer here, seconding your statement (hello 7-8k Crits versus 4-5k heals) plus the fact that a single Warrior can simply kill me with sheer damage, without ever interrupting any cast, which should never be a valid strategy / option... trauma debuff OR the damage addition via expertise needs to be removed! Edited January 17, 2012 by GalaxyDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosmagistrate Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Full Champion geared + 3 Battlemaster items wearing Sorc Healer here, seconding your statement (hello 7-8k Crits versus 4-5k heals) plus the fact that a single Warrior can simply kill me with sheer damage, without ever interrupting any cast, which should never be a valid strategy / option... trauma debuff OR the damage addition via expertise needs to be removed! That Warrior that just crashed you, just grabbed berserker buff, popped overcharge, popped adrenal, popped relic, after stacking singularity with Force Exhaustion, and leapt and smashed you. Once they remove buff stacking, things might even out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brellerson Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think healers would be easily dealt with without the debuff if you're facing skilled players. As you can see a lot of people have it out for healers because they were bad at killing them in WoW, despite healers being easily dealt with by skilled players in that game. Other than one or two seasons in TBC healers were never truly overpowered in WoW PvP. At the time it was only resto druids anyway, not healers in general. Currently you have resto shaman on top in PvP, but it has as much to do with their utility (when they use it wisely) as it does with their healing output. Frequently in MMOs you'll run into situations where DPS are incompetent and don't know when to interrupt or CC, they then go to the forums and cry that healers are OP. They never go to the forums and point out how many times a healer gets chain cc/interrupted from 100-0 by a couple DPS that know how to play though. Sometimes you'll have 2 or 3 healers healing each other, someone makes a QQ thread claiming ONE healing class is godlike and OP because they were to stupid to notice that person had backup. If 2-3 DPS are dpsing down someone at the same time, maybe a QQ thread shows up about ONE of the 2 or 3 people. It's fascinating. 90% of QQ threads are a result of poor raid awareness and an inaccurate perception of what actually happened. The debuff is not needed. Debuffs like this are a crutch for bad DPS that think they should be able to faceroll DPS down people with little thought put into anything besides their damage rotation. DPS will always be a majority, and the majority of them will always be average and below skill wise, so healers will always get the short end of the stick balance wise to appease these individuals. That being said, healers can still make a significant impact in warzones. Half the time people are to dumb to switch to them or CC them (at least the pug teams). Which is likely the primary reason the debuff exists, bad DPS. I'm sure guard and taunt also play in a roll in why healing gets toned down, unfortunately for healers you aren't guaranteed to have either of those things to help you out, especially if you solo queued. Every healer needs a tank BFF! Very accurate and very true... despite the fact that all the epeening, whining, crying little sub-par DPSers will never admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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