Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Lady_Alyria]

You get Southern Gentleman off him? I get more Midwest Farmboy (and I mean that with affection), likely one who grew up with a bunch of sisters, and had to balance a life of watching out for their safety, while being careful not to set them off and risking having them gang up on him.

 

What he does behind the haystack when they aren't around, though, is his business.

 

 

 

 

Addendum, my last post had more to say, but strayed off topic itself and got pruned. Moving on anew.

 

Well really between Southern Gentleman and Midwestern farmboy, you are talking which side of a state line at that point. Lets make him from Southern Illinois. Southern accents and culture, technically midwest. If everything were so easily settled.

[Uluain]

You get Southern Gentleman off him? I get more Midwest Farmboy (and I mean that with affection), likely one who grew up with a bunch of sisters, and had to balance a life of watching out for their safety, while being careful not to set them off and risking having them gang up on him.

 

What he does behind the haystack when they aren't around, though, is his business.

Greetings from the Midwest.

 

Where I am in my talks with Corso, he has just been telling me that his sister is the only family he's real eager to get in touch with, so the above rings true.

 

And it certainly doesn't preclude wanting to be nice to women. As Rosanne Barr said,

 

"I love gay guys. Gay guys are great. If it weren't for gay guys, fat girls would have no one to dance with."

Edited January 31, 2012 by Uluain

[ProfessorCaprion]

Doc may also go on that list of "What? No, they can't be gay" -- I don't think I've heard anyone asking for an S/S relationship with him, though.

 

Anybody see that episode of Scrubs where it was discovered that Todd wasn't just lecherous toward females, as initially thought? Sure, it was pure comedy... but I think S/S with Doc could be quite entertaining in that same vein.

[thegrognard]

I really like the idea of being able to set your preference during character creation since I have seen in other threads that some people would prefer not to even have the flirt options. But I don't know how much in demand that truly is so just making some of the companions romanceable by either gender would work for me. I actually thought for sure some of them would be when I initially started playing. I play a trooper so... I couldn't see Aric as the type to be romantic with a dude, Hell, I can hardly see it with a chick, lol. But I could totally see Elara as being romanced by either gender, although maybe for a chick it would take a higher affection level until the option arose.

 

Being able to choose a sexuality at character creation would be good, except for one small thing. You don't know what kind of characters you'll run into. For example quite a few people dislike (or outright hate) Corso, but other's like them. Also it's more organic if you grow to like (maybe even love) your companion and you could see the two being better than just a team.

 

As some people point out that there are big gaps before they get a romancable character, for example. The JK get's Kira, his second companion on corcuent who is romancable and roughly at say level 14+. The JC has only 1 female companion whomb he only meets on Belsavis and that's at levels between 40-45, but the JC also get's 3 male romancables much earlier and currently only if your character is female. JK has 1 male, 1 female that are romancable.

 

Again, it depends whom you like. You might really like another person, but hate the only character that's currently gender compatable. The only way to be sure without going through all the companions on that class already would be to set your sexuality to bi, which would leave the point of a choice at character creation rarther moot, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

Just writing the dialog and making many of them bi (especially if it doesn't break their character) would fix the majority of problems, especially as I've found they don't do much unless you persue them, even though some characters it's in their personality like some people mention Doc and Kailyo as prime examples. They both tease at times so it looks as though the origonal idea for them swinging both ways would fit.

 

Edit:

 

Anybody see that episode of Scrubs where it was discovered that Todd wasn't just lecherous toward females, as initially thought? Sure, it was pure comedy... but I think S/S with Doc could be quite entertaining in that same vein.

 

Oh yeah, they thought he was really just gay and only acted as he did because he was repressed but when they found he still liked women and was walking down the hall going in his head "I'd hit that, I'd hit that" on everyone the Janitor asks "What are you?" and he goes "I'm the Tod."

 

Loved that episode

Edited January 31, 2012 by thegrognard

[LadyNightArrow]

And, there it is in orange

Hello all,

 

Please note that this is not a debate on whether or not they should be included or not. Stephen's official statement on same sex romance arcs is:

 

Originally Posted by StephenReid

Official statement follows:

 

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

Please make sure that your continuing discussion is on topic, constructive and appropriate. Thank you.

Sorry to the OP for going off topic when I did. Just to sum up what my posts (on topic) have been: I vote for 3, for the most part. I just hope that when BW does implement SGRs, they do so in a way that doesn't ruin the current story lines or feel awkward. If that means taking time to figure out how to do so, then so be it. What we as a community needs to do is be patient.

[gekko_s]

Since we're at it, I'd like to ask what kind of expectations people have for the same gender romance stories and companions. What would you consider good, exciting, romantic, boring, adequate or annoying? What "type" would you prefer the most?

 

 

For me, the personalities or characters don't really have to be tailored to seem gay. If I like a character and romance is an option in the game, my imagination most often seems to be able to make them gay until they say something that indicates otherwise. After that, they're bi in my head until I read up on the game and find out that they're not available for same gender romance (or romance at all (Jon Battle-Born in Skyrim, I'm looking at you)). After that, I'm disappointed.

 

I think everyone does that and rewrites the people they meet in game in their heads to their expectations. That's why I think the same companion could easily go in several directions with the same background and personality and it would feel natural in each individual player's re-imagined world, and that's also why I'm not against some toggle at the beginning, because I think the expectations go the other way around as well, so a perceived good friend can be a better experience the sooner the flirt option gets buried and done with. This goes both ways.

 

I can only give examples from other games I've played, because I've stopped playing SW:ToR while waiting for same gender romance to be added. The story based games I've played with romances are: Dragon Age 1 & 2, Mass Effect 2 and I guess Skyrim.

 

The most exciting part of the romance is the chase, so a long slow buildup of friendship that leads to something more would get me engaged the most. Secondly, it's exploring the unknowns. How relationships work in a new game and on what level. Not knowing quite what to expect is really exciting, but that also leads to more disappointment if the character turns out not to be available for romance.

 

Alistair in Dragon Age was that kind of experience. When he talked about not having "done it" before, my imagination went wild with how he and my character would share their first experiences. That expectation lasted a long time, until boom, the relationship building just stopped. In the case of Alistair, I don't think much rewritten dialogue would be needed for my perfect game romance up until the end. I guess the problem with Alistair was the heir to the throne thing. Since Alistair never mentioned liking any girls specifically, I'd have no problem buying it if he was into me. The same goes for Jacob in Mass Effect 2 and all NPCs in Skyrim.

 

If companions that mention past girlfriends were made available for male romance, like Thane in Mass Effect 2, I think it'd be nice to get some kind of line that acknowledges a change or past bi feelings, but it wouldn't have to be much. It could even be the expression of surprise at the attraction since past attractions haven't been male. I think many can like the fantasy of being so special to someone that they realise a new side to themselves. I know I'd do.

 

Other good stuff: Zevran in Dragon Age was a really fun flirt. He was perfectly written to go for both males and females and not wanting commitment. I'd love him, or someone like him in any game, but preferably not as the only same gender romance option.

 

Boring stuff: Anders in Dragon Age 2 was the anti-experience of a long exciting build up, and unfortunately not a very good romance story experience for me. I applaud Bioware for making the effort, but something didn't quite work. The build up of the relationship seemed too fast and didn't hold much excitement, nor humour as with Zevran. I really wanted to like him, and I played the romance the whole way through, but somehow it was mostly boring. Maybe it was his needy personality, like someone commented earlier. I don't know about the Fenris story since I didn't pursue that romance on the first play through, and well, for me there was something wrong with the stories in general in Dragon Age 2, so I never got around to a second one.

 

As for types, I think I'd be most into a boy next door kind of guy, a bit like Alistair or Jacob in the previous examples, which gradually opens up with an unexpectedly deep emotional life, or a darker emo kind of type, more like Thane, and possibly Fenris, except that I never got to know the elf.a

Edited January 31, 2012 by gekko_s

[AquaSky]

I'd like to see options for everyone, but it smacks of laziness to go "Forget making some characters heterosexual and some homosexual, that's too much work. We're just using the dialogue we have now and making them romanceable by anyone. Everyone in the universe will jump your bones now. Happy ?" In real life, you can't bed everything that walks, and it should be the same in fiction.

 

Yes, there should be homosexual and bisexual characters to go along with the heterosexual characters.

 

Yes, that should include excisting characters that hint heavily at a bisexual orientation (Kaliyo).

 

No, they should not just take off the flags and make the whole universe want to polish your lightsaber/invade your sarlacc. Let there be variety.

[stuffystuffs]

I'd like to see options for everyone, but it smacks of laziness to go "Forget making some characters heterosexual and some homosexual, that's too much work. We're just using the dialogue we have now and making them romanceable by anyone. Everyone in the universe will jump your bones now. Happy ?" In real life, you can't bed everything that walks, and it should be the same in fiction.

 

Yes, there should be homosexual and bisexual characters to go along with the heterosexual characters.

 

Yes, that should include excisting characters that hint heavily at a bisexual orientation (Kaliyo).

 

No, they should not just take off the flags and make the whole universe want to polish your lightsaber/invade your sarlacc. Let there be variety.

 

I don't like the hyperbole in these type of arguments.

 

It's hardly the whole universe that wants to jump into your captain's quarters and it still will not be the whole universe even if they remove the flags from existing romances.

[Grothaal]

Just droping by to express this is a needed feature.

 

I am personally not gay, but have to opt-out from relationship content in game because I rolled a woman and would not feel ok to "flirt" a man npc. Its silly to denny people to play the game according their sexual preferences. and hope BW acts corectly and allow it.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Moitteva
Removed inappropriate content (political)

[elexier]

I have already said my part on what I think would be a good staroy arc, As to the build up no idea.

 

With Kira It would not be difficult as she seems passive on both fronts, But she is playful, Besides her and the PC have been through ALOT, So feelings go that way is not a far fetch at all.

 

I would suggest a quest chain for companions for AFTER the main story arc, The conversation choices throughout this mission would effect weather there Bi or not.

 

Then just allow a few harmless flirts throughout the normal campaign missions, and flirting with the NPC's but that's a minor thing

[DarkPara]

Boring stuff: Anders in Dragon Age 2 was the anti-experience of a long exciting build up, and unfortunately not a very good romance story experience for me. I applaud Bioware for making the effort, but something didn't quite work. The build up of the relationship seemed too fast and didn't hold much excitement, nor humour as with Zevran. I really wanted to like him, and I played the romance the whole way through, but somehow it was mostly boring. Maybe it was his needy personality, like someone commented earlier. I don't know about the Fenris story since I didn't pursue that romance on the first play through, and well, for me there was something wrong with the stories in general in Dragon Age 2, so I never got around to a second one.

 

As for types, I think I'd be most into a boy next door kind of guy, a bit like Alistair or Jacob in the previous examples, which gradually opens up with an unexpectedly deep emotional life, or a darker emo kind of type, more like Thane, and possibly Fenris, except that I never got to know the elf.a

 

You would probably have preferred Fenris's rivalry romance then, way better than whining Anders which I personally stopped following in act 2 as soon as I felt it would go such a boring way.

Even if all romances in DA2, as you said, built up way too fast - which seems not to be the case in TOR, fortunately, in what I have seen so far.

[rvhausen]

In real life, you can't bed everything that walks, and it should be the same in fiction.

 

Hm, I'm torn between realism and fantasy. Sleeping your way across the galaxy would be both ridiculous and sublime.

 

Also, while I love the voice acting, I think it really restricts our options due to development constraints. My Jedi Sentinel really misses her "blood sister" (an early dialogue option), Ranna Tao'Ven, but alas I doubt anything will ever come of that.

[Jenovan]

I don't like the hyperbole in these type of arguments.

 

It's hardly the whole universe that wants to jump into your captain's quarters and it still will not be the whole universe even if they remove the flags from existing romances.

 

^ This. And as others have said in this thread, if "everyone is hero-sexual" is the route taken, it doesn't mean that all of your romance companions are bi. It means that the one you choose to pursue a romance with is receptive. If my female BH pursues a romance with Torian, I might never be particularly concerned with Mako's orientation. If I went after Mako, maybe Torian is actually gay! Who knows! Or if I wanted to rachet up the tension and try to flirt with both of them, that's still one SGR and one OGR. Regardless of the number of flirtable companions, the orientations of the ones you don't want to pursue shouldn't matter to you. And the orientations of other people's companions really shouldn't matter to you.

 

There is an issue of "lack of rejection", and I agree that's not entirely realistic... but the same could be said of any class which already has 2 OGRs. They both are interested in you if you pursue them, right? Besides, if you're going to try to flirt with every possible character, is that realistic? I imagine that's only true for a small percentage of people who are actually playing their character. For the folks just hitting the Flirt option because it's there... well, there's not much help for it, and you get what you get.

[MoogleNut]

Hm, I'm torn between realism and fantasy. Sleeping your way across the galaxy would be both ridiculous and sublime.

 

Also, while I love the voice acting, I think it really restricts our options due to development constraints. My Jedi Sentinel really misses her "blood sister" (an early dialogue option), Ranna Tao'Ven, but alas I doubt anything will ever come of that.

 

Same here - I call it 'The Ali Hillis Effect'

 

(That's the voice of Liara in Mass Effect/Lightening in FFXIII to those who don't know )

 

Back on topic - while having a mix of sraight/gay/bi companions WOULD be more realistic, we're not playing for realism here. Plus, how much worse would it be if the exclusive gay character suddenly became bi down the line because the hetero players complained that it wasn't fair that they couldn't romance whomever they wanted - THAT would probably do more harm to Bioware's reputation in my eyes than their silence is now.

 

For the first time I can honestly say I'm no longer enjoying a Bioware game because of this - the lack of info more than the exclusion itself. Luckily I have a Mass Effect 2 playthrough to finish before the 9th March to keep me occupied.

[depizan]

Hm, I'm torn between realism and fantasy. Sleeping your way across the galaxy would be both ridiculous and sublime.

 

And it isn't as if I couldn't list of a few space adventure/sci-fi adventure characters in other universes who've done exactly that. (Granted generally in the heterosexual sense, but still.)

 

Besides, for all that same sex romances/flirts aren't in the game, there are enough, shall we say, "interpretable" dialogue bits and more than interpretable dialogue bits to suggest that this universe isn't, actually, very concerned with sexual orientation. Which still wouldn't make everyone bi, of course.

 

Though, honestly, when they do add in same sex romances, I also hope they add in same sex one night stands and flirts. And, for that matter, I'd be fine with some NPCs turning down my characters because they're the wrong gender - either because the NPC is straight or because they're gay.

[Baytree]

There have been a number of comments that it feels weird to people when all romanceable NPCs are bi because it's not very realistic.

 

For me making NPCs romanceable regardless of your character's gender doesn't actually mean that you as the player have to interpret every romanceable character as being bi, it just means you can choose their orientation.

 

If I start a relationship with an NPC then I assume/roleplay their orientation is whatever makes sense for them to be with my character.

 

For example, if a it's a s/s relationship then I'll assume the NPC is gay. The fact that if I'd rolled an opposite gender character and would have still been able to romance them is irrelevant to my current play through.

 

Obviously it's different when an NPC has expressed an interest in both genders, such as Zevran in DAI.

 

If, however, an NPC only expresses an interest in your character then deciding if they're straight, bi or gay is up to you as the player. At least that's the way I think about it.

 

Not sure if that made any sense, it's been a very long day.

 

 

Though, honestly, when they do add in same sex romances, I also hope they add in same sex one night stands and flirts. And, for that matter, I'd be fine with some NPCs turning down my characters because they're the wrong gender - either because the NPC is straight or because they're gay.

 

Considering how how big a part flirts can play in some of the story arcs (smuggler for example) I would be very disappointed if they didn't inlcude s/s flirt options.

 

Oddly enough, I find it's the lack of s/s flirt options that's bothering me more than the lack of romance options with companions.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Baytree

[Uluain]

Though, honestly, when they do add in same sex romances, I also hope they add in same sex one night stands and flirts. And, for that matter, I'd be fine with some NPCs turning down my characters because they're the wrong gender - either because the NPC is straight or because they're gay.

^ Pretty much this.

 

SGR content will be nice to see as an option. But that's far, far less prominent than the mission NPC conversational [Flirt] promts which my Smuggler sees two, three times a night - never for the gender he'd want to flirt with.

 

I don't care if making a pass leads to a fist-fight - at least he would have the opportunity.

 

In the mean time, I get to listen to mouth-breathers in /General going on about their latest score.

 

Can you see how that might irk someone?

 

Almost as irksome as Dev silence on this issue.

[depizan]

 

SGR content will be nice to see as an option. But that's far, far less prominent than the mission NPC conversational [Flirt] promts which my Smuggler sees two, three times a night - never for the gender he'd want to flirt with.

 

 

Damn, sounds like they need to fix the [Flirt] imbalance between male and female PCs while they're at it. I can only think of one opportunity my (female) Smuggler has had to flirt with someone. (Not counting that idiot Corso.)

[Uluain]

Damn, sounds like they need to fix the [Flirt] imbalance between male and female PCs while they're at it. I can only think of one opportunity my (female) Smuggler has had to flirt with someone. (Not counting that idiot Corso.)

That is a concern, and it has been brought up in a separate thread. If you filter the Story & Lore forum threads by numbers of replies, it comes up close to the top - it just hasn't stayed on the front page.

 

To bring this back to topic:

 

To my thinking, these issues are interrelated. Male PC to Female NPC seems to be the preponderance of Flirt or Companion Romance options. Female PCs seem to get the short end of the stick. Players of either gender wanting same-gender content just get the shaft.

 

There seems to be a real conflict here between the diversity to which Bioware claims to be committed, and what they actually put a priority on. I don't know whether to keep expecting better and being disappointed, or to be cynical and proven right.

[Doel]

^ Pretty much this.

 

SGR content will be nice to see as an option. But that's far, far less prominent than the mission NPC conversational [Flirt] promts which my Smuggler sees two, three times a night - never for the gender he'd want to flirt with.

 

I don't care if making a pass leads to a fist-fight - at least he would have the opportunity.

 

I so feel your pain. It's the very same for my Smuggler ("We're just friends, right?"). No flirting for him at all, at the moment. Feels for him like living in a cloister

 

Would love to get into a fist-fight with him, at least he'd finally see some action lol

[Ruio]

I so feel your pain. It's the very same for my Smuggler ("We're just friends, right?"). No flirting for him at all, at the moment. Feels for him like living in a cloister

 

Would love to get into a fist-fight with him, at least he'd finally see some action lol

 

Fight fight fight fight fight.

 

Speaking of ME3... so excited.

[depizan]

There seems to be a real conflict here between the diversity to which Bioware claims to be committed, and what they actually put a priority on. I don't know whether to keep expecting better and being disappointed, or to be cynical and proven right.

 

I say we keep poking them until they fix the problem. I'm not sure where that falls.

 

The character stuff is really what makes this game (besides it being Star Wars), which means that the lack of s/s romance and [flirt] options, the unequalness of the existing romance and [flirt] options, and the lack of branching story-lines (come on, we should have light side/dark side story-lines at least) top my list of things I want fixed. I know I am not even close to the only one.

[Uluain]

Well, I suggest we give ourselves a couple weeks to spread the word, then make an effort to show Bioware how many of us do feel this way - Valentine's Day seems an appropriate occasion to deliver the message. Tell your friends.

 

And maybe just not Bioware. EA and LucasArts also take credit for the game. Let them share responsibility.

 

Especially considering this:

 

As an example of our commitment to equality, EA was recently very proud to receive the accolade of having a perfect rating based on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender workplace policies and benefits according to a major study released by the Human Rights Campaign Foundation, the USA's largest lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender civil rights organization.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Uluain

[Zandilar]

I say we keep poking them until they fix the problem. I'm not sure where that falls.

 

The character stuff is really what makes this game (besides it being Star Wars), which means that the lack of s/s romance and [flirt] options, the unequalness of the existing romance and [flirt] options, and the lack of branching story-lines (come on, we should have light side/dark side story-lines at least) top my list of things I want fixed. I know I am not even close to the only one.

 

I think we have to bear in mind that this is an MMORPG.

 

The MMO part of the acronym has always sat rather uneasily with RP. In fact, I'll go further to say that RPGs in general sit uneasily as Computer Games. I suppose I'm biased, since I have been playing pencil and paper RPGs since I was a teenager back in the 80s - but it seems to me that the lack of flexibility or spontaneity has always made Computer based RPGs a pale reflection of the pencil and paper games that first inspired them. But this is kind of a digression, so I'll just leave it at that and get to what I was trying to say here...

 

The point I'm trying to make (in an overly verbose way) is that the character driven story parts of this game are really just a novelty, if they hope to make this last as an MMO. People don't play MMOs to play a single player CRPG simultaneously with thousands of other people at the same time - they play them for the MMOs aspects, PvP (as much as I hate to say that, *spits*) and leveling/raiding, and the social aspects, teaming up with people to do missions, PvP, and raid. If I wanted to play an in depth CRPG, I'd seriously be playing Mass Effect, Dragon Age Origins (yes, I'm leaving out the uncomfortably cramped for consoles sequels that both games had, despite the fact that I loved ME2 and DA2 despite the changes - both games were painfully limited compared to the first games in both series), or any other of the plethora of single player CRPGs available.

 

So, while I'd personally LOVE them to address the imbalance of [flirt]s between genders, and the current lack of SGRAs, it's a mistake to say that this stuff "makes the game" - when, in fact, it only makes the game for some of us.

 

TL;DR: sweeping generalizations about what "make the game" are bad, mmkay?

[depizan]

 

TL;DR: sweeping generalizations about what "make the game" are bad, mmkay?

 

Would "sets this game apart from other MMOs" have been a more acceptable choice? Because really, that's what this game does differently. The actual game play isn't particularly different from other MMOs I've played. I didn't mean to suggest that "the game sucks except for the characterization," if that's what you thought I meant.