Same gender relationships clarifications?

[Nozybidaj]

Edit: ooh and yes also KNOWING that the new character is purely there for the romance side really makes the whole thing feel cheep no matter the story: it'ls like a snake seeing you put a mouse in it's tank... there is no effort or thought behind "why the mouse is there" because both the snake and mouse know damn well whats going to happen, and so it just becomes going through the motions.

 

Part of me thinks ( and I am an illustrator, animator, and have worked in the gaming industry) " Why not simply copy over conversation triggers, and keys that are already there, bring in the actors needed and record only the lines that needed fixed up to match the situation?

 

I think this again looking at Kira, whom I've had with me since Coruscant

 

Absolutely agree. Having sgr options added only via new companions whose sole purpose is to be a sgr option is quite off putting to me personally. Like those who want this content are only being patronized and "here's a companion for you with no relevance to anything please go shut up now". Not to mention the fact we wouldn't even see these a year, 2 maybe, from now.

 

Why the current romance options don't already have same gender options available is beyond me. BW can't be this blind by accident. It is such an easy fix too, they don't even need to add new content to make this happen, the content is already there in the game, it just needs turned on and the (more than likely already recorded) PC voice work to be added in.

 

BW has really let this section of the player base down.

[Nozybidaj]

I think he was asking for the non-homophobic toggle - the one that turns off ALL romance/flirt options. So making Vette watch your PC having sex would be one of those things toggled off.

 

In any case, I'm not actually against a toggle, but lets worry about that once the content actually gets put in the game. After they finally add the missing content then they can go back and worry about that kind of stuff.

 

I'm not going to stop playing because I can't turn off a random line of dialog clearly marked [Flirt] if I so choose, I can control that all on my own. I will stop playing however if BW fails to add content to include optional story paths that should have been in the game at launch.

[Uluain]

You may not see the need for the request, but that doesn't mean that it is should meet with the same type of scorn that we often find directed at those of us who are lobbying for the SGRA content. The tone of the discussion is starting to border on hypocritical.

Agreed. While marking conversational prompts [Flirt] is established, there is no harm in discussing other ways this content could be implemented to make the game experience as enjoyable to all.

 

or

 

<Gold Five> "Stay on topic!" </Gold Five>

 

Edited February 2, 2012 by Uluain

[MusedMoose]

For all that time I grew very close to Kira, whom I add feels like the type who can see and reciprocate love no matter where it came from.

 

Yet it was work getting her to talk, and open up at first, though you see a growing connection.

Yeah, that's pretty much how things went for my JK too, slowly getting to know Kira better and feeling like there's something more there. I tend to really empathize with my characters as I play, so as a longtime roleplayer, I'm often fully in my character's head. It's really sucked to have to stop playing the character completely for fear of missing out.

 

Kira: gain 150/15/15/15/45/190/100/100/ etc etc.. ooh look almost a thousand point later she wants to talk

 

Doc: Gain 15 > wants to talk Gain 5 > wants to talk

I think this may be a game mechanic issue more than a character/social one. Since you don't get Doc 'till later, there's some "catching up" to do so that he's had the same number of conversation "missions" as the other companions. Kind of like how your first companion gives you 15 rep with them when they approve of your choices but later ones will give more. However, this is just a theory on my part, as the farthest I've gotten with any character is Tattoonie at level 26. Yes, I'm an altaholic.

 

Edit: ooh and yes also KNOWING that the new character is purely there for the romance side really makes the whole thing feel cheep no matter the story: it'ls like a snake seeing you put a mouse in it's tank... there is no effort or thought behind "why the mouse is there" because both the snake and mouse know damn well whats going to happen, and so it just becomes going through the motions.

EXACTLY. I really, really don't like the idea of adding in any new companions purely to fill the SGR void. It would be like "Okay, here's your new companion, Gay Option - I mean, (Companion Name Here)." Also, I know I'm not the only one who's really grown to like the existing companions - they are the ones I want my characters to have relationships with. Not some newbie added to fit a token role.

[Uluain]

I really, really don't like the idea of adding in any new companions purely to fill the SGR void. It would be like "Okay, here's your new companion, Gay Option - I mean, (Companion Name Here)." Also, I know I'm not the only one who's really grown to like the existing companions - they are the ones I want my characters to have relationships with. Not some newbie added to fit a token role.

At last report, in September, it sounded as though the plan were new companions for SGRs. I agree that this would be unsatisfactory, especially as tokenism. I dread seeing one companion added per faction. "Want to play a F/F romance? Roll a Sith Warrior. Want to play a M/M romance? Play a Trooper."

 

Dread, because after so long with so little to go on, I really do worry about BioWare's follow-through on their alleged plans.

 

Players have gotten attached to the companions they know. To disallow SGRs with existing companions who are otherwise romanceable would make many people looking for this option unhappy.

[Kioma]

EXACTLY. I really, really don't like the idea of adding in any new companions purely to fill the SGR void. It would be like "Okay, here's your new companion, Gay Option - I mean, (Companion Name Here)." Also, I know I'm not the only one who's really grown to like the existing companions - they are the ones I want my characters to have relationships with. Not some newbie added to fit a token role.

 

Let's be fair, any new companions they add which have same-sex relationship options are going to feel a little like they were put there 'just to be gay/bi/lesbian' irrespective of whether they actually were or not. Also, everyone's going to be wondering if a given character has been included to 'fill the SGR void' as you put it. That's less a matter of writing and more a function of our combined disappointment that same-sex relationship options weren't included right from the beginning. Many of the people posting to and viewing this thread just... assumed they'd be there; I'm one of them. And to have my assumptions (which were based on prior Bioware games) revealed as actually being assumptions... Well, I didn't like it, and I bet most of you didn't like it either.

 

I'd counsel a bit of caution before signing on to the attitude that future characters are being included just to shut us up. Remember that any companions they put in are going to be a challenge for the writers simply because they weren't in the game at the start, let alone for romantic purposes. The new companions might have attitudes, stories and behaviours every bit as rich as the launch companions. We just don't know. Considering them automatically 'token characters' just because they fulfil a role the original companions don't isn't really very fair. Waiting for them, playing with them, assessing their story lines and then making a personal judgement as to whether you think they're token characters, that's fair.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying such characters wouldn't be token characters entirely put in to calm the same-sex proponent crowd. They might be there just to shut us up. And as I've said before I'm one of the people who wants same-sex options to be available for launch companions as well as new ones. I likes me my Kira.

 

I'm just saying, well, we don't know. And can't know. Because as we all know Bioware is only giving static boilerplate responses and even if they weren't we wouldn't know how the stories run until the new companions are released.

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm just dreaming of a SWTOR made by Edmonton and not Austin, oh so perfect.

[Kioma]

I'm just dreaming of a SWTOR made by Edmonton and not Austin, oh so perfect.

 

Not sure of the difference betwixt the two, personally.

[Rayla_Felana]

Not sure of the difference betwixt the two, personally.

 

Edmonton made ME and DA and believe me, if it was Edmonton, this would've been confirmed in 2009 and we'd be actively pursuing them right now, but alas, we got Austin, the newbie branch.

[Kioma]

Edmonton made ME and DA and believe me, if it was Edmonton, this would've been confirmed in 2009 and we'd be actively pursuing them right now, but alas, we got Austin, the newbie branch.

 

Oh right, I see. Well, getting the newbie branch isn't so much a bad thing per se. Everyone starts out a newbie. It's how readily the newbie is willing to learn that really distinguishes their worth.

 

Still haven't played any of the ME games, either...

[kraidy]

Newbies don't cut, more so when there is bi characters already in the game that you should be able to flirt with. If Bioware didn't want to do S?S romances, then romances should have been excluded all together. /angry rant

[MusedMoose]

At last report, in September, it sounded as though the plan were new companions for SGRs. I agree that this would be unsatisfactory, especially as tokenism. I dread seeing one companion added per faction. "Want to play a F/F romance? Roll a Sith Warrior. Want to play a M/M romance? Play a Trooper."

I have to disagree there, as the statement never sounded like that to me. It's specifically written to say only that, because this is an MMO, companions and relationships can be added to in the future:

"Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options."

 

As I've said before, "content expansions" can mean anything that adds to the game, whether it's entirely new companions or added romance 'missions' to existing ones. While I see why you interpret the statement the way you do, it in no way excludes the possibility of current companion characters becoming available for SGRs. "the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options" means exactly that; it does not mean that only companion characters added post-launch will be available for SGRs.

 

I'd counsel a bit of caution before signing on to the attitude that future characters are being included just to shut us up. Remember that any companions they put in are going to be a challenge for the writers simply because they weren't in the game at the start, let alone for romantic purposes. The new companions might have attitudes, stories and behaviours every bit as rich as the launch companions. We just don't know. Considering them automatically 'token characters' just because they fulfil a role the original companions don't isn't really very fair. Waiting for them, playing with them, assessing their story lines and then making a personal judgement as to whether you think they're token characters, that's fair.

<snip>

I'm just saying, well, we don't know. And can't know. Because as we all know Bioware is only giving static boilerplate responses and even if they weren't we wouldn't know how the stories run until the new companions are released.

Fair enough; I didn't mean to sound like I thought future characters would only be included to shut us up. I am trying to keep a positive attitude about this whole thing, even if it's difficult at times.

 

If we do only get SGRs with new companions, I'll do my best to treat them as I would any other companion. ..and try really hard not to imagine my JK looking longingly at Kira.

[JerBear-d]

As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't mind making a character that is in a polygamist relationship with all of my companions.

 

^Obviously would never happen, but fun to think about

 

I'm looking forward to same sex relationships. I think they would have been present at launch had BW not been any rush to release. I know it's not a huge difference in programming and everything, but voice acting and all of that matters. But I'm sure it's on the way regardless

[Rayla_Felana]

Oh right, I see. Well, getting the newbie branch isn't so much a bad thing per se. Everyone starts out a newbie. It's how readily the newbie is willing to learn that really distinguishes their worth.

 

Still haven't played any of the ME games, either...

Here is the main problem with how Austin handled this, they put the multiplayer aspects of this game first, over the driving point of what makes this game different from other MMos on the market, Story.

 

They have done nothing for the story since launch, ALL content has been about either balancing PvP or making raid content, they ditched making proper story content in an effort to subscribe to the more general MMO crowd, when they don't have a general MMO game.

 

But back on topic, ME was great, to me, for Liara T'soni, easily the best SGRA I have ever seen, well-written, isn't made out to be overtly bisexual, and is actually a main character of the game, unlike most SGRAs we have seen, Liara was amazing, I can't wait for ME3 just to see where they take her character next.

 

She is the benchmark SGRA for BioWare, in my opinion, and Austin has utterly failed to produce anything of the same quality(they left out half the damn RAs in the first place), in any romance arc, many feel outright stale, the best I have seen so far is Jaesa Willsaam, and she is only interesting to me for her very strong feel of a Sith Apprentice.

 

Of course this is just me ranting about my dislikes of this game, I have many likes to, I just hope they bring SGRAs out soon, or i will have no interest at all and probably will be playing ME3, then just move on to GW2.

 

It is a massive shame, because the over all storylines of this game are very well done, but how enjoyable can they be when you don't have that special someone for your character to romance whilst adventuring? Any ways, I'll stop this wall of text which is half way off topic in the first place, disappointed BioWare, after all the great games over the years, simply disappointed.

[kraidy]

I have to disagree there, as the statement never sounded like that to me. It's specifically written to say only that, because this is an MMO, companions and relationships can be added to in the future:

 

 

Yet in the What's coming to TOR, no mention of S/S was said, all we got was there will be more FP, operations, new Guild features, the Legacy system, UI customizations and new Warzones and PVP issues.

[Nozybidaj]

 

It is a massive shame, because the over all storylines of this game are very well done, but how enjoyable can they be when you don't have that special someone for your character to romance whilst adventuring? Any ways, I'll stop this wall of text which is half way off topic in the first place, disappointed BioWare, after all the great games over the years, simply disappointed.

 

Absolutely agree. I could be off happily playing my JK right now instead of sitting here on the forum fuming about the specific exclusion of content for a particular portion of the players. Alas, it is what it is now, the damage is already done with no band aids in site.

[Tenebram]

Q.Q I'm from Austin lol.. which as a town is very gay friendly. But yeah like 5 different MMO's have been developed here and considering this is Biowares first they may be going by example of what is tried and true to get a foothold in the market.. ideally they will start adding story aspects soon but after all it is a multiplayer game not a single player, personally Im thankful for as much single player feel it has already its pretty much the first of its kind. While I really really want the SSR's added soon I guess I can see things from their perspective but I dont understand why they arent giving us any more information

 

Edit: Also I think people hit 50 faster than they intended so they had to add some more content to keep from losing people right away

Edited February 3, 2012 by Tenebram

[kraidy]

Q.Q I'm from Austin lol.. which as a town is very gay friendly. But yeah like 5 different MMO's have been developed here and considering this is Biowares first they may be going by example of what is tried and true to get a foothold in the market.. ideally they will start adding story aspects soon but after all it is a multiplayer game not a single player, personally Im thankful for as much single player feel it has already its pretty much the first of its kind. While I really really want the SSR's added soon I guess I can see things from their perspective but I dont understand why they arent giving us any more information

 

Edit: Also I think people hit 50 faster than they intended so they had to add some more content to keep from losing people right away

 

I'm trying to remain hopeful but it's hard

[Rayla_Felana]

Q.Q I'm from Austin lol.. which as a town is very gay friendly.

 

I hope you weren't taking my post as meaning Austin, TX is a homophobic city, I meant the studio in Austin hasn't included them for some unknown reason, where as i know Edmonton would have.

[Kioma]

I knew someone from Austin once. She was very lesbian and very proud of it. Leader of our guild on WoW, for a while... from what she told me of the place it sounds like it's very LGBT-friendly.

 

But of course there are different groups of people everywhere...

[Zandilar]

Newbies don't cut, more so when there is bi characters already in the game that you should be able to flirt with. If Bioware didn't want to do S?S romances, then romances should have been excluded all together. /angry rant

 

I am so tempted to go off on a rant of my own about people assuming that just because a particular character is a certain way, they're bisexual.

 

Sexuality isn't a duality, or even a trio of sexualities. There's a bunch of different shades between. Some heterosexuals have no problems at all being homoflirtatious (to coin a word, I suppose heteroflexible would fit here too).

 

Truth of the matter: Honestly, I can see completely where people are coming from with Kaliyo, she pings my gaydar about as much as Kira does. However, I'm fighting the idea of Kaliyo being bisexual because I know that I'll end up stuck with her as an IA, and I don't really like her all that much (she's too dark). Yes, that's probably selfish of me, I know, but I don't care. It's bad enough I'm practically forced to drag her along with me everywhere (she's a tank, the only one you get until [redacted due to spoilers], and as an Operative you need her), I don't want her to be Jan'neria's only choice for romance. I'd much prefer Temple, to be honest, or someone completely new (which is beginning to be my preferred option - a chiss female, please! ). Chances are, we'll only end up with one gay choice per class per gender - at least in the shorter term - and I really really don't want it to be Kaliyo.

 

@Rayla_Felana - I just have to ask... have you played very many MMOs before? Because SWTOR is a pretty standard MMO with story bits bolted on, AFAIC.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Zandilar

[Kioma]

I am so tempted to go off on a rant of my own about people assuming that just because a particular character is a certain way, they're bisexual.

 

Kudos, Zandilar. Kudos. I totally agree.

[StSathar]

Q.Q I'm from Austin lol.. which as a town is very gay friendly.

 

In college I felt Austin was very gay friendly. But he was from Arkansas...

 

Edit: Also I think people hit 50 faster than they intended so they had to add some more content to keep from losing people right away

 

Yeah, this has been a big problem for me. Only two characters, a smuggler and an assassin, and I'm trying to save the smuggler until after they catch up the romance arcs, but even with confining him to his ship and the fleet his level still creeps up. The assassin who's more active is in the 40's already, and I almost wish there was a "scale xp by 0.25" switch.

 

FWIW, I think Corso is still pouting about what went on during the ship "rescue," but I'm sure we can patch things up. If not, I'm about ready to rebound on Bowdaar if given the chance. Just as long as they help me flush that space wench out my airlock.

[MusedMoose]

I am so tempted to go off on a rant of my own about people assuming that just because a particular character is a certain way, they're bisexual.

 

Sexuality isn't a duality, or even a trio of sexualities. There's a bunch of different shades between. Some heterosexuals have no problems at all being homoflirtatious (to coin a word, I suppose heteroflexible would fit here too).

...I really wish I could high-five you through the internet right now. I've known people all up and down the Kinsey scale - hell, I even know someone who's asexual, which I think is where Kinsey divided by zero. A friend of mine has referred to herself as "mostly straight", and despite the reputation of bisexuals being into anything that moves, most whom I've known were in committed relationships, including an ex-girlfriend of mine.

 

Granted, I also know a guy who seems to be an "anything that moves" sort of bisexual, but that's just the one.

 

Truth of the matter: Honestly, I can see completely where people are coming from with Kaliyo, she pings my gaydar about as much as Kira does. However, I'm fighting the idea of Kaliyo being bisexual because I know that I'll end up stuck with her as an IA, and I don't really like her all that much (she's too dark). Yes, that's probably selfish of me, I know, but I don't care. It's bad enough I'm practically forced to drag her along with me everywhere (she's a tank, the only one you get until [redacted due to spoilers], and as an Operative you need her), I don't want her to be Jan'neria's only choice for romance. I'd much prefer Temple, to be honest, or someone completely new (which is beginning to be my preferred option - a chiss female, please! ). Chances are, we'll only end up with one gay choice per class per gender - at least in the shorter term - and I really really don't want it to be Kaliyo.

Good point, and I have to admit, I've been so focused on how I feel about the current companions that I didn't even take a second to realize that they don't necessarily float everyone's boat. The thing is, though, the romance options are already pretty limited - we've already seen some discussion on this thread about people who are less than pleased with the one OGR they get with their class. There's always hope for new companions in future expansions, though, since it's a safe bet that at least some of them will also be new romance options.

 

I agree that we'll probably only have one SGR per gender per class, at least to start, so here's hoping the companions we love can soon love our characters back.

 

And yeah, while my Imperial Agent finds Kaliyo intriguing, a female fellow Chiss companion who shares his devotion to the Empire would be awesome. They could poison each others' blades and stab enemies in the back together forever.

 

Also: has anyone else been writing to BioWare, LucasArts, and/or EA? I still think getting their attention in as many ways as possible is a good idea. We really need to show them that this is important to us. I got an e-mail back from the support address today, an utterly canned response that said nothing about the issues I brought up. I clicked on the survey at the end, marked down some very negative opinions in several areas, and noted that my issues were not addressed at all. Hopefully they'll see that they're creating irate customers and change their tune.

[Rayla_Felana]

@Rayla_Felana - I just have to ask... have you played very many MMOs before? Because SWTOR is a pretty standard MMO with story bits bolted on, AFAIC.

 

I've played MMOs for years, and I would have to disagree, SWTOR is a BioWare RPG with Multiplayer mode wrapped around it, the very core of the game, is a solo RPG experience, you can see it's been designed like that by the very fact that you need to actively search for all the other modes of play, where as the Class quests are all over.