Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Grymtusk]

I really don't support having Recount functionality but what I would support is just having a god damn combat log.

 

Seriously its 2012, if your game is gonna have damage based on numbers I want to have a record of that that I can at least review.

[ErikValens]

So what you want is for any level with any gear to be able to to walk into any dungeon/op and beat it.

 

Actually, no, I think what is being said is that you end up with a bunch of people who are more worried about how much DPS the guy next to him is doing, instead of just doing your part.

 

If a level 10 guys wonders into a level 40 group, well there are a lot of problems there before the instance is even started. No one here is saying that guy should be able to handle his own. If this is your group make up, the people who invited him deserve the wipe, or really need to step up their game so that they don't. The reality is that the 10 level guy will spend most of the run dead and be a burden on the others. Their fault.

 

I like the fact that you go in and fight the instance. I did one earlier this week where someone was not pulling their weight, so we had to adjust how we fought, controlling aggro, and 'spell' rotations. It was hard, it was aggrevating at times, but in the end, it was a blast. It wasn't tank-tank, dps-dps, and heal-heal, just keep spamming the same buttons until we are through. It was 'Oh no, wait let me this. WOOT it worked. Oh no now he is targeting me. Oh wait, did you see what the BH jsut did, cool." You had to think through it.

 

So, no, don't add a damage meter so someone can gripe and complain about others that they CHOSE to PUG with. Play the game, beat the bosses by sometimes unorthadox means, and HAVE FUN!!!!

 

And before you respond, "says the guy who obviously doesn't pull the damage" I do my share, and sometimes I don't. oh well.

[Cratzky]

Recount/Dmg Meter in this game is very much needed, simply because I as a Raid Leader, wants to know who underperforms and who does not. Edited February 21, 2012 by Cratzky

[Speephish]

More information is better than less information and significantly better than no information.

[GOYAFIDO]

Actually, no, I think what is being said is that you end up with a bunch of people who are more worried about how much DPS the guy next to him is doing, instead of just doing your part.

 

If a level 10 guys wonders into a level 40 group, well there are a lot of problems there before the instance is even started. No one here is saying that guy should be able to handle his own. If this is your group make up, the people who invited him deserve the wipe, or really need to step up their game so that they don't. The reality is that the 10 level guy will spend most of the run dead and be a burden on the others. Their fault.

 

I like the fact that you go in and fight the instance. I did one earlier this week where someone was not pulling their weight, so we had to adjust how we fought, controlling aggro, and 'spell' rotations. It was hard, it was aggrevating at times, but in the end, it was a blast. It wasn't tank-tank, dps-dps, and heal-heal, just keep spamming the same buttons until we are through. It was 'Oh no, wait let me this. WOOT it worked. Oh no now he is targeting me. Oh wait, did you see what the BH jsut did, cool." You had to think through it.

 

So, no, don't add a damage meter so someone can gripe and complain about others that they CHOSE to PUG with. Play the game, beat the bosses by sometimes unorthadox means, and HAVE FUN!!!!

 

And before you respond, "says the guy who obviously doesn't pull the damage" I do my share, and sometimes I don't. oh well.

 

I never say things like that. I support players who want to be casual and play "just for funsies." I have never ever said otherwise. I should have made it clear that I was saying the ultimate result of removing any chance to do badly means there is really nothing to do at all.

 

What I find troubling is that people say they want to be allowed to play their game their way without being judged and dictated to and then then they turn around and act like the way other people play is wrong and they judge them for it and dictate to them how THEY should be playing.

 

People say things like "Real players don't need meters" or comments to the effect that "those judgmental, name-calling elitists ruin this game for everyone else", not to mention any variation of "If you don't like it here you can always leave" or "Why won't you just relax and HAVE FUN!!!" and ultimately "No recount for YOU!!! *SLAM!!!*"...and they utterly and completely FAIL to see the irony and hypocrisy in how they judge other people, tell them their style of play is wrong and dictate to them how they SHOULD be playing.

 

The cherry on this dookie sundae?: The real source of their hurt is not the elitists at all, but their unwillingness or inability to ignore or cope with that tiny population of truly irrelevant players known as epeeners. People act like they are everywhere and run everything and this just isn't so. Plenty of people find trying to do better both relaxing and fun. Why do people take it upon themselves to pass judgement on these players and dictate to them how they should play?

 

Besides, every time anyone posts a thread about said epeeners, many of those trolls/epeeners read them and enjoy the tears you keep handing them by giving them undue and unneeded attention in the first place.

 

You get to choose how you feel. If you want to hand control over to the trolls/epeeners, quit trying to control others so much. Your judgement certainly needs questioning as you are clearly willing to give up control to someone else and then complain when they take it.

 

There are plenty of judgmental, name-calling elitists dictating to others how they should be playing in this game. Go read the anti-recount posts, you will find many such persons posting them.

 

P.S. Therefore if a player wants to be more casual rather than less, I see no validity in their complaints about being not wanted in a group that prefers less casual and more pro, after all we ARE free to play the game we want to play without being judged or dictated to, amirite?

 

P.P.S. TL;DR: Being judgmental of others and dictating to them how they should play as a method of validating a position that is based on not wanting to be judged and dictated to by others makes about as much sense as shooting people in a mall to promote gun control or getting drunk and driving into a crowded bus stop to promote stricter punishments for drunk driving.

Edited February 22, 2012 by GOYAFIDO

[Durde]

Me personally I would like to see a DPS Meter even if it is just a personal meter and nobody else can see it, because I am quite anxious to see what I’m doing right or what I’m doing wrong and how I can improve my over all DPS. That’s just my two cents I can care less what the guy next to me is doing I just want to know that I’m playing at my best.

[havacooki]

Answer me this: Would you take the guy that would get you killed into battle?

No? Then damage meter is a must.

 

We should all be held accountable for not playing our class to its potential. After clearing 9/10 Nightmare I have come to the reasoning that without a way to gauge our individual increase in strength, raiding with Bioware’s mechanics is going to get old…and fast.

 

If a fight has a hard enrage that you are continually hitting do you want to simply keep wiping? Will you continue to tell your raid members to “dps harder” when the vast majority of them have only a mild idea of what rotation optimizes their damage output?

 

Simply throwing out a rotation is not enough. Players will eventually crave a means of gauging their damage output. A majority of bosses are too big to visualize damage output above our targets i.e. Bonethrasher, Foreman Crusher, Karagga, Annihilation Droid, Gharj.

 

As much as we hear that rotation is all that matters and awareness is more important, what happens when you have completely cleared content? Will the fact that you cleared it faster before enrage really excite you? It would be more enticing to master content and then allow for competitive PVE play within the raid setting, adding longevity to the raiding experience as a whole.

 

“But…only hardcore players want damage meters.” Well O.K. then, let’s be real here: The content is already easy. Most of the difficulty attributed to these mechanics is due to one-shot factors and bugs. Most of the bosses, especially in Nightmare mode, have hard enrages. If your raid is clearing content, which is most likely so at this point, then fine. But once you hit the Nightmare level you might find your raid in shambles when that 10% enrage happens.

 

At this point it’s “What went wrong?” and vent follows with silence when the idea of searching the combat log or checking the meter already went frustratingly out the door.

Edited February 23, 2012 by havacooki

[Niil]

Didn't bother reading the entire thread.

 

I don't feel people have the right to analyze my numbers, unless I give them that right. So no, I don't want a generic recount. I'm not opposed to people being able to look over their own numbers. I'm not opposed to a combat log showing what happens to you and what you do to others. I'm not opposed to guilds having tools that allow them to look at encounters and figure out what's going wrong. My friends have a modicum of social skill, but when people deal with randoms ... well you know the idiom internet + anonymity = raging moron. I don't care whether we finish an (upcoming) lfd run 2 minutes faster or not. I don't care that the guy beside me is terrible. Unless he's making my life difficult by breaking cc and not assisting which I can see without a recount. Plus people are always complaining about new level capped people and will kick them because they're "bad" when they're just not as geared as everyone else. My friends, that I choose, have the right to assess my dps or healing numbers. I know they won't take the recount numbers out of context and I know they'll treat me with respect. Limited recount, sure.

[msdixi]

NO they are making a Damage meter available for PERSONAL use. IE you can see your own damage but not others.

I would go along with that but constantly trying to keep up with other's damage ruins it for me. There are other helpful things for the group such as CC, off heals etc and that won't show up under the player's damage. People were kicked from groups if their damage did not seem high enough in Wow.

[Veluthurk]

No.

 

...but I think it's appearance is inevitable.

[DarthWombat]

NO they are making a Damage meter available for PERSONAL use. IE you can see your own damage but not others.

 

i like the idea because i know im doing good dps. but being told to pick up the dps because the tank cant hold agro or somehting and healer or tank dies I DONT KNOW i just want proof to back up whether im actually doing good or im doing bad

[Darth_Xzygy]

Yep. Bring it on.

 

Why do so many people seem to think that identifying someone who is doing poor dps is a bad thing? You make it seem like if you're doing 2% lower damage than Superman, you're going to be crucified.

 

There are smart, good people, who just don't push good numbers. Most of the time, this is as a result of a fundamental misunderstanding or clicking their abilities. Some of us will try to work with someone to help them improve, but we can't know definitively that they need help without a metric to show it.

 

I'll never understand the argument for willful ignorance. Actual data on your performance is nothing but positive. Besides, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you knew for sure that you were contributing just as much or more than everyone else?

[Niil]

Yep. Bring it on.

 

Why do so many people seem to think that identifying someone who is doing poor dps is a bad thing? You make it seem like if you're doing 2% lower damage than Superman, you're going to be crucified.

 

There are smart, good people, who just don't push good numbers. Most of the time, this is as a result of a fundamental misunderstanding or clicking their abilities. Some of us will try to work with someone to help them improve, but we can't know definitively that they need help without a metric to show it.

 

I'll never understand the argument for willful ignorance. Actual data on your performance is nothing but positive. Besides, wouldn't you enjoy the game more if you knew for sure that you were contributing just as much or more than everyone else?

 

You presume willful ignorance while ignoring the massive amount of harassment that people get because of damage meters. I'm a min-maxer by nature. I love crunching numbers. I tend to be good at optimizing stats and rotations/priorities. But on the same hand, I know a lot of people who just don't care as much about that. They're more interested in just plain having fun. And crunching the numbers, finding the perfect rotation or build, or being the best dps'er they can be isn't important to them. They're playing for entertainment. I can respect that. You, apparently, can't. You have to demean them in an intellectual way, which is actually much nicer (though still just as disrespectful) as the kids that will use information like that to trash talk them and kick them out of groups. I'm all for meters, as long as it's done in a way which maintains their privacy in the process. People presume to judge others based on that information, and just like you, can't accept that they just have a different playstyle and they don't have any interest in the way you play, regardless of how well meaning you are.

[DaxRendar]

You presume willful ignorance while ignoring the massive amount of harassment that people get because of damage meters. I'm a min-maxer by nature. I love crunching numbers. I tend to be good at optimizing stats and rotations/priorities. But on the same hand, I know a lot of people who just don't care as much about that. They're more interested in just plain having fun. And crunching the numbers, finding the perfect rotation or build, or being the best dps'er they can be isn't important to them. They're playing for entertainment. I can respect that. You, apparently, can't. You have to demean them in an intellectual way, which is actually much nicer (though still just as disrespectful) as the kids that will use information like that to trash talk them and kick them out of groups. I'm all for meters, as long as it's done in a way which maintains their privacy in the process. People presume to judge others based on that information, and just like you, can't accept that they just have a different playstyle and they don't have any interest in the way you play, regardless of how well meaning you are.

 

Excellent post, quoted for truth.

[Jduff]

Can I just get something to judge my dps while hitting a straw man or practice dummy, change my spec and see if I can improve? Is it ok, if I try to get better? So once I do enter a raid/Operation with guild or friends I am doing my best? no need to assume I am going to belittle someone, its just trying to be the best I can... This "your ok, Im ok" we are all alike thing is fine is thats the type of thing you're into, but I like to excel, and to be reliable for my group/team.

 

So do we have dates on anything? Even the individual combat log or no?

Edited February 27, 2012 by Jduff

[JediElf]

Why do so many people seem to think that identifying someone who is doing poor dps is a bad thing? You make it seem like if you're doing 2% lower damage than Superman, you're going to be crucified.

 

Because, that's what always happens when these kind of meters are introduced.

 

Every. Single. Time. Without fail.

 

The percentage of people who don't use them to insult, belittle, and kick 'bad' players will only be....2% at best.

Edited February 27, 2012 by JediElf

[Varghjerta]

Yes

Basicly now when they confirmed they will do WoW in space with dual specc and X-server LFG.

 

Recount is aswell needed

[JediElf]

Can't we just have some stress-free fun for a little bit longer? Please?

 

Why does everything have to be a cold, and calculating numbers game?

[Caldus]

When some dps junky tells me I'm bad because I can't avoid fire AND do enough damage to carry him and his guild, <Didn't See Fire While Staring at Meters>, through content I'll be packing my bags for Azeroth.

 

The lack of elitists in the community (and the relatively positive community in general) is the only truly distinguishable difference between this game and WoW at end game. Once that goes away (and it will because there are a ton of half retarded people who play MMOs who don't understand the value of meters goes beyond dps) this game will be WoW with a more enjoyable leveling system and lightsabers.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Caldus

[Varghjerta]

Can't we just have some stress-free fun for a little bit longer? Please?

 

Why does everything have to be a cold, and calculating numbers game?

 

Actually the easier and faster people people can get groups,

The more some people start to just not caring about theire performance in the group, They know they can get a new group within minutes.

 

Fun and stress free enviroment is actually based on that players do actually commit to perform theire role adequate while playing in groups.

 

And as it stands now Recount is not needed but when Dual Specc and X-server LFG is in the game i would say it is mandatory in a group enviroment

[JediElf]

Fun and stress free enviroment is actually based on that players do actually commit to perform theire role adequate while playing in groups.

 

I don't think anyone is disputing that. Everyone, knows that you ought to do you best, when in a party with people.

 

What some of us are worried about, is the little dictators, that Recount will create. Being kicked for doing .02 under on the DPS, or not following a cookie cutter build, and rotation, to the letter. For trying you best but it's never, ever enough for those people.

 

Creativity, and fun, while fighting and leveling characters will go right out the window. Every build will be the same, because everyone will want to do the max damage, so they don't get kicked.

 

...and i'm not talking about Nightmare level Raids. I'm talking about the little jerks that will spam Recount after every single trash pull, every single boss, and will make life hell for anyone who dares to be new at the game....on normal difficulty.

 

That's the truth of it.

Edited February 27, 2012 by JediElf

[Brimmer]

Nope - swtor doesn't need this junk.

 

I would post the many reasons but, really is it that hard to use common knowledge?

[Caldus]

Actually the easier and faster people people can get groups,

The more some people start to just not caring about theire performance in the group, They know they can get a new group within minutes.

 

Fun and stress free enviroment is actually based on that players do actually commit to perform theire role adequate while playing in groups.

 

And as it stands now Recount is not needed but when Dual Specc and X-server LFG is in the game i would say it is mandatory in a group enviroment

 

1. What does dual speccing have to do with this? (Serious Question)

 

2. I disagree with the idea that recount will make groups stick together or somehow make group environment better. A tank looking at his recount seeing bad numbers from one or both dps will just drop group to go find another group. I played WoW since LFG was implemented and that is exactly what happens.

 

3. I will concede that if BW continues to listen to the community, X-server LFG is probably closer than they think. Single server LFG will cause as many problems as it solves. It will mostly just make dps complain about queue times and then they will go X-server which will be a sad situation for everybody as the community becomes WoW-like. However, their often stated position is that this is a long ways off.

 

4. Current group settings are fun and easy. I play on an RP-PVP server and the community is very nice and even with bad dps breaking cc, attacking wrong targets, and surely doing no good, very bad dps we still live to the end.

[PulseRazor]

I hate recount because people rarely use it constructively, and it becomes a competition thing, or a way for people to pick on one another for bot pulling their weight. Lke Paladin Tank's in wow from level 25-60 where they can top dps while tanking and also spit out sompetitive heals because just because Paladins are economically sound to make overpowered for players to enjoy in a fantasy setting.

[Varghjerta]

I don't think anyone is disputing that. Everyone, knows that you ought to do you best, when in a party with people.

 

What some of us are worried about, is the little dictators, that Recount will create. Being kicked for doing .02 under on the DPS, or not following a cookie cutter build, and rotation, to the letter. For trying you best but it's never, ever enough for those people.

 

Creativity, and fun, while fighting and leveling characters will go right out the window. Every build will be the same, because everyone will want to do the max damage, so they don't get kicked.

 

Actually that is a big assumption just based on that you dont do that (neither do i) and instead do actually play youre role adequate

 

Just take WoW for example when i was playing that game i played with so many players that did 2-300 dps at lv 80 and 400-1200 at lv 85 basicly they didnt care .

 

Or Healers that spamhealed one person usually a non tank aswell all theire mana bar or tanks that just used auto attacks list can be made endless but still those players didnt even wanted to try theire best they just want rewards.

 

But without recount and having easy grouping system and dual specc involved people will still judge other people but instead they will purely go on gear .

 

But like i said aslong as dual and X-server LFG is not implemented there is absolutley no need for recount

Edited February 27, 2012 by Varghjerta