Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yes I have years of experience. I posted earlier. If this was a bug, that allowed "some" random group of classes and players to roflstomp everyone else, any decent MMORPG would have hotfixed it in days. Not weeks. I have seen it happen, when a major bug appears that disrupts the playing of everyone because a few have managed to find a way to abuse the system, it is fixed and it is fixed fast. Ok so it is not a bug, but instead is a design flaw....that justifies 3 weeks of allowing it to continue? I have seen Gold dupes fixed in 24 hours. The fact that it has been 3 weeks is just a reflection of Bioware's attitude towards their players. 1 week of not actually being live....1 week of Christmas break (just an FYI, its EA policy to let all there dev's have the week off....sure some were on call to cover real breaks, but in general they were on vacation)....so that means 2 weeks....2 weeks of working on everything from getting there dungeons un-broken, to putting out there new content patch, to coming up with one of the worst 'fixes' for PvP, I think that makes them sound pretty damn busy and not exactly sitting on there hands doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Uh - they spent 6 years developing this game. And they had betas for how many months? And they had no idea that a few 50s on a given side would clearly ROFL-STOMP any low level players? Or they had no idea that the open world design they layed out - which has been done before in a similar fashion in other MMOs has failed as well? This is the PvP expertise you have on a 300 million dollar game? Give me a break ... No, they probably had a good idea that they'd crush but it's more important for end-game pvp to survive than it is to balance out lower level pvp. Because lower level pvp will never be balanced anyway. So, their plan, was to institute no brackets until there were enough level 50s for them to have their own que. Now there are enough level 50s, so they are getting their own que. This has been the plan all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellour Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm sure my opinion won't be all the popular but I'm gonna go ahead and put it out there anyway... I actually had FUN in pvp pre-50, and now that I'm 50 with only 1 piece of Champion gear, you know what? I'm still having fun. Do I expect to win every match I play? No. Do I still win matches? You bet. Did I still win matches before I hit 50? You bet. I'm not saying it's not harder, I'm not saying there aren't problems, but for me? As long as I'm enjoying myself, I can make do until the fixes come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitchx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The good old altaholics that rolled multiple characters off the bat. They think they should be geared as much as someone who put time into one character/main, before thinking about rolling an alt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 1 week of not actually being live....1 week of Christmas break (just an FYI, its EA policy to let all there dev's have the week off....sure some were on call to cover real breaks, but in general they were on vacation)....so that means 2 weeks....2 weeks of working on everything from getting there dungeons un-broken, to putting out there new content patch, to coming up with one of the worst 'fixes' for PvP, I think that makes them sound pretty damn busy and not exactly sitting on there hands doing nothing. If the fix was difficult, then you would have a point. Go into the code, change the numbers on expertise to 0, hotfix. That was all that was needed, that and a post explaining that this is all they could do til WZ's could be bracketed. It is only an excuse that it took 2 weeks if the fix was difficult to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Warzones are broken right now for anyone under Level 50. Shame on BW for not implementing brackets earlier! Agreed. It is disappointing that BW did not care enough to design the system better. It appears they gave only a cursory effort to the pvp game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpassailant Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Not Bioware's fault you didn't get 50. Not Bioware's fault your crying about geting beat up. Not Bioware's fault you won't join a guild and grind like the rest of us. Not Bioware's fault you won't make friends, and try to have a good time. Not Bioware's fault you don't want to stay. Not Bioware's fault that you have a complex problem. Moral of my point, Bioware is not here to hold your hand. Your not special and need attention more. Here is what I predict, you will come back and forth crying on these forums for years. You will never be happy, and will complain over and over. Finally one day you will wake up and realize that this game when you complained was better than anything out there, and that SWTOR was brand new the day you posted this. Then again you are probably in denial, and think Bioware is the one to blame for your L2P problem.... I was reading through the pages on the OPs whiner thread and stopped here because this should be copied and pasted onto every whiner thread out there. I agree with this totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 The good old altaholics that rolled multiple characters off the bat. They think they should be geared as much as someone who put time into one character/main, before thinking about rolling an alt. What on earth are you talking about? I think you accidentally posted in the wrong thread, as this thread has nothing to do with gear, nothing to do with a desire for more gear or equality of gear or really anything to do with gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusmnicolae Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 question:why we don't get expertise from lv 10 when we can pvp? and be able to get gear for pvp from that lv actually usable ? by my experience 2 things are weird in this game 1: classes are needed to be played different that their description leads u to believe ( see there's no tank ...,there is no spoon -- heheh) 2. fully geared lv 50 for pvp is the game breaker from me as pvp and when they enter a premade u can only cry. now point 1 is just a need to play and experiment issue, btw respec needs to be free ... point 2 .. uhm, ye, why cant we get expertise from lv 10 ? why can i pvp from 10 for the entertainment of the lv 10 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevvy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Bye... Edited January 17, 2012 by Sevvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 They will fall behind in progression. What is progression in pvp? Usually some kind of ranking system and gear! Yeah. So why did you pretend you weren't talking about gear when both you and I knew you were? Casual players (including me) will fall behind those who play all the time. Skill will always be prelevant but when it comes to PROGRESSION' again they will fall behind. Which is fine, if they aren't fighting each other, but since they are, the level and gear becomes the means of compitition instead of skill. That's the whole issue!! Awesome you think youre the one who thought of this No. I think I'm one of many who are discussing a problem with the game, while you whine at me about gear handouts for some reason. Its not about being right or wrong. Yes it is. I'm right, you admit I'm right, and you're still whining at me about something you didn't understand in a thread before the game even came out. What was that about getting over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Uh - they spent 6 years developing this game. And they had betas for how many months? And they had no idea that a few 50s on a given side would clearly ROFL-STOMP any low level players? Or they had no idea that the open world design they layed out - which has been done before in a similar fashion in other MMOs has failed as well? This is the PvP expertise you have on a 300 million dollar game? Give me a break ... being a beta tester for 6 months. There was not enough end game players around to test Ilum, and it was so bugged until 1 month before launch that it was untestable by those that were of level. Expertise and almost all gear progression was put in seconds before game launch and went in largely untested. In the 6 months I tested, gear for PvE and PvP were largely completely changed every month, including massive re-writes to the crafting system. I do think it is pretty funny, that people talk about the game in development for 6 years (which is untrue, it it was in pre-production during 2 of those years) when the standard average MMO runs a 5 year development cycle and normally 6 months to a year of beta, this one is on par with every other MMO production time frame and beta time and did make all the same mistakes every other MMO has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spymaster Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 this one is on par with every other MMO production time frame and beta time and did make all the same mistakes every other MMO has. Not all that reassuring you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spuck Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As with other numerous things, they should have left it how it was in beta at one point. PvP gear for varying levels from 10-50... and after level 20, most pvp gear had some expertise on it. That is why it was pvp gear. Now all we have is lvl 20, 40, and 50. 50 being the only armor that comes with expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamenta Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 being a beta tester for 6 months. There was not enough end game players around to test Ilum, and it was so bugged until 1 month before launch that it was untestable by those that were of level. Expertise and almost all gear progression was put in seconds before game launch and went in largely untested. In the 6 months I tested, gear for PvE and PvP were largely completely changed every month, including massive re-writes to the crafting system. I do think it is pretty funny, that people talk about the game in development for 6 years (which is untrue, it it was in pre-production during 2 of those years) when the standard average MMO runs a 5 year development cycle and normally 6 months to a year of beta, this one is on par with every other MMO production time frame and beta time and did make all the same mistakes every other MMO has. Interesting. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitchx Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 What on earth are you talking about? I think you accidentally posted in the wrong thread, as this thread has nothing to do with gear, nothing to do with a desire for more gear or equality of gear or really anything to do with gear. Oh I know where I posted, and it's very relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) 1 week of not actually being live....1 week of Christmas break (just an FYI, its EA policy to let all there dev's have the week off....sure some were on call to cover real breaks, but in general they were on vacation)....so that means 2 weeks....2 weeks of working on everything from getting there dungeons un-broken, to putting out there new content patch, to coming up with one of the worst 'fixes' for PvP, I think that makes them sound pretty damn busy and not exactly sitting on there hands doing nothing. This is like saying we should give the plumber that did shoddy work, 'time' to 'fix' his poor work -- rather than hold him accountable. This should never have been an issue in the first place, as these issues were obvious from conception. Pretending BW was completely surprised by the resulting issues, is just the wrong approach. They presented cheap work, and they are being called upon it. Edited January 17, 2012 by Loekii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravinian Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 being a beta tester for 6 months. There was not enough end game players around to test Ilum, and it was so bugged until 1 month before launch that it was untestable by those that were of level. Expertise and almost all gear progression was put in seconds before game launch and went in largely untested. In the 6 months I tested, gear for PvE and PvP were largely completely changed every month, including massive re-writes to the crafting system. I do think it is pretty funny, that people talk about the game in development for 6 years (which is untrue, it it was in pre-production during 2 of those years) when the standard average MMO runs a 5 year development cycle and normally 6 months to a year of beta, this one is on par with every other MMO production time frame and beta time and did make all the same mistakes every other MMO has. My problem isn't with the mistakes. MMOs are massive games, with a lot of intricate details. My problem is with the attitude of the game developers that they have allowed this to continue unfixed for so long, you can argue 2 weeks isn't long, but I would argue that you are incorrect. That may be a matter of subjective opinion on which people will never agree. For me this should have been hotfixed immediately because it is extremely detrimental to a large number of the playerbase. It wasn't, this reveals the attitude of the game developers, an attitude that they don't care, they won't bother to fix stuff that is detrimental to a large amount of their playerbase and THAT doesn't bode well for the future. I am not interested in becoming invested in a game where the developers have shown that they are not interested in your playtime, that they will allow things to continue that ruin the playtime for a large number of players....for whatever reason. They could have fixed this very easily, they have not done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If the fix was difficult, then you would have a point. Go into the code, change the numbers on expertise to 0, hotfix. That was all that was needed, that and a post explaining that this is all they could do til WZ's could be bracketed. It is only an excuse that it took 2 weeks if the fix was difficult to implement. Haha...If BW was a 12 man project with a guy with 'button control' who could make snap decisions, I'm sure you are right.... But bioware is over 500 employees working on this project and i bet the red tape to get resolutions approved after a dozen meetings to determine what would be the best course of action and if they should wait and put in a better resolution, or pander to panic stricken doom sayers with one of the worse ideas for a fix in a long time. Sadly the votes went the 'bandaid on a sucking chest wound' theory, and so they pandered to you panic stricken doom sayers instead. This 'fix' will just bring us down a twisting rabbit hole we should never have to go down agian, but we can thank you and your ilk for it....good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loekii Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 being a beta tester for 6 months. There was not enough end game players around to test Ilum, and it was so bugged until 1 month before launch that it was untestable by those that were of level. Expertise and almost all gear progression was put in seconds before game launch and went in largely untested. In the 6 months I tested, gear for PvE and PvP were largely completely changed every month, including massive re-writes to the crafting system. I do think it is pretty funny, that people talk about the game in development for 6 years (which is untrue, it it was in pre-production during 2 of those years) when the standard average MMO runs a 5 year development cycle and normally 6 months to a year of beta, this one is on par with every other MMO production time frame and beta time and did make all the same mistakes every other MMO has. We can see the problem simply on paper, with any testing needed. That is the problem. This is not some mysterious issue that was masked until hours upon hours of testing. Look at the forums, such complaints arose with in the first few days of gameplay -- not weeks. And again, we have seen enough precedent in OTHER mmos, to know that these decisions would have these results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBxFTW Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is the logic that fails. Allow the larger majority of your playerbase to be farmed by the minority, or have the minority wait longer for Warzones? We're the 99%! Occupy Fleet's Space Station! Let's start a movement. Sorry, had to say that ^ I totally agree with you. Warzones should be catered towards the majority rather than the minority. Also, this game has such wonderful story telling. I want to play with different characters. When doing that, I don't focus on leveling up. Which means that I get facerolled in PvP. Even if I consider myself an "average" player, shouldn't I still feel as if I have a chance to shape how a warzone game works? Btw, I have two level 28s and a couple of other lower level characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunsoar Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah. So why did you pretend you weren't talking about gear when both you and I knew you were? Which is fine, if they aren't fighting each other, but since they are, the level and gear becomes the means of compitition instead of skill. That's the whole issue!! No. I think I'm one of many who are discussing a problem with the game, while you whine at me about gear handouts for some reason. Yes it is. I'm right, you admit I'm right, and you're still whining at me about something you didn't understand in a thread before the game even came out. What was that about getting over it? No your not right. I know you love to self gloat. I've been providing feedback on this game for a year. They ignored us in beta for 50 brackets and theyre taking their time now to implement it. I'm right and you agree with me. Again because you're stuck on gear in relation to skill. If your having problems competing because youre level 40 fighting another level 40 who is in pvp gear and beating up but youre wearing level 20 greens it is not a gear issue. Its a skill issue. This example shows a stupid player. You want an additional bracket for skill based on who has what gear to compete with? ***? How is this not about gear with you. MMOs revolve around progression and gear. Skill gets you both of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malice_Nihilim Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Agreed. It is disappointing that BW did not care enough to design the system better. It appears they gave only a cursory effort to the pvp game. well duh....did you see SWTOR advertised as the new awesome PvP game? no....You saw SWTOR advertised as the story driven MMORPG....did you really think they would have good PvP systems in there story driven game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHexxus Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Apparently a month after release is "too long" nowadays. So sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 If the fix was difficult, then you would have a point. Go into the code, change the numbers on expertise to 0, hotfix. That was all that was needed, that and a post explaining that this is all they could do til WZ's could be bracketed. It is only an excuse that it took 2 weeks if the fix was difficult to implement. Yes I'm sure that would have gone over much better on the forums. Genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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