You took too long with Warzone Brackets

[Zaskaszh]

Personally, I would like to see people cancel, simply because in the market, that usually is how things end up improving. The 'tolerant' customer is more often rewarded with generic service.

 

This is widely believed. It's also a fallacy. "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc"; after this, therefore because of this. People scream and shriek bloody murder on game forums about obvious problems, and then when said obvious problem gets fixed, these people think it's because they screamed and shrieked...completely ignoring the fact that the problem was going to get fixed, anyways.

[Celebrus]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players by leaving out brackets at launch and then not putting them in for a month.

 

You showed a total disregard for your player base, opting to allow them to be farmed by level 50s in far superior gear while you sat on your hands and did nothing.

 

The excuse that there weren't enough level 50s was not good enough. You had other options, you could have disabled Expertise in PvP and told those at 50 it will be reinstated in a month along with brackets, but you didn't.

 

You did nothing.

 

This is why I will not resub.

 

The rest of the game, it can be fixed, eventually, should you get around to it.

 

Your attitude towards your paying customers is much harder to fix.

 

You have shown utter contempt for great developers by being lazy, irresponsible, and blatantly whiny.

 

You have shown total disregard for the fact that you could have been level 50 by now with gear and a decent shot at competing.

 

Your excuses that you work too much, have a family, and a life just are not good enough, you've had other options, you could have stopped whining on the forums and put your time into levelling and gearing out, or simply learning the mechanics of the game and your class and not sucking at everything, but you didn't.

 

You did nothing.

 

Actually you did do something, you got on the forums and whined to abunch of people that don't care in a place (the PvP forums, not CS forums) where nobody of importance will even notice. Rather than taking your enjoyment in your own hands, like EVERYONE else, you've handed it over to the developers to iron out all of the *PERSONAL* problems you have with the game in order for you to enjoy it.

 

This aspect, as well as the rest of the game, are still intact, can still be improved, and will still be around when the OP is on the next MMO's forums crying his eyes out and threatening to quit.

 

This is why nobody cares.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Celebrus

[kiratch]

so im matched against mainly 50's in hutball all day . when i finally get a warzone thats not hutball , i have 0 , 50's on my team and the other team is filled with them , how is that fair , ive won maybe 4 of my last 30 games , thats premades mostly .but thats it enuff is enuff . im out bye all

[Loekii]

This is widely believed. It's also a fallacy. "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc"; after this, therefore because of this. People scream and shriek bloody murder on game forums about obvious problems, and then when said obvious problem gets fixed, these people think it's because they screamed and shrieked...completely ignoring the fact that the problem was going to get fixed, anyways.

 

 

I am not seeing it that way.

 

 

Rather I see it more along the lines of this:

• People become dissatisfied with the service and cancel
  
  
• Sub retrention drops
  
  
• BW investigates reason for the decline
  
  
• BW implements improvements to mitigate decline and attempt to regain loss subs (ie 'come back and see our changes' emails sent to old customers)
  
  

 

 

I disagree with the notion that people should just keep paying for a game they are not enjoying, in hopes that maybe BW will just guess at what needs to be improved and fix it.

 

 

There is a reason BW did not have these fixes in place, during development, so I have very little faith that they will change without some sort of factor to motivate a change.

 

Business doesn't tend to change the status quo, unless there is a financial motivator. A bad restaurant will not improve, unless it is losing money, for example.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Loekii

[Dogfatherxx]

Nothing needs to change in my opinion. I like it just the way it is. In fact, if they change anything I might unsub. I guess it all balances out for them.

[waltab]

the one question is are these people writing this even 50 yet? if you are level 50 it really wouldnt matter what lvls are in your game if your lvl 12 go quest enjoy the world bioware made for us and do some pvp on the side and don't just sit on the fourms going "oh he hits harder then me nerf him, oh he heals more then me nerf him and btw if you dont im leaving" Edited January 17, 2012 by waltab

[Macheath]

The real culprit here is both the ease of leveling, and the ease (sometimes) of acquiring PvP gear at 50.

 

There were players who hit 50 during early access. that's under 6 days to hit end-game. When you have 5 or 10 level 50's on each server, you have to let them into warzones with the general population. There shouldn't have even been any level 50's in the first month; leveling should not be that quick in an MMO.

 

The second issue is the random loot bags. Now, I'm not against random loot bags per se, but when a nearly fresh level 50 can get a string of good luck and find an almost full set of Champion gear, there's something wrong with the system. It's only a month into release, and not only have PvPers hit the level cap, they are fully geared! It SHOULD have taken at least a month to hit level cap, and another month (again, at the very least) to gear up. That would have provided a buffer zone, so that more players could hit 50 before you started seeing geared 50's steamrolling the rest of the general population.

 

-Macheath.

[Zaskaszh]

Business doesn't tend to change the status quo, unless there is a financial motivator. A bad restaurant will not improve, unless it is losing money, for example.

 

I would agree with your statement, except that what many people are advocating on these forums is the equivalent of not going to the restaurant (because you dislike the service or the food) AND encouraging people to picket the restaurant AND taking out ads in the paper to bash it. They don't want to just leave the game because they're dissatisfied, they want to smear it and make Bioware pay some sort of imaginary penance.

 

This is why I'm as active as I am in threads like these. I really cannot stand the entitled, self-centered attitude of some posters, and I'll point it out every time.

[CaptainDil]

Simpler Solution: Be a productive member on the forum and offer suggestions and solutions to help assist the issues at hand. Positive insight goes a lot farther then negative demands and self righteous spoiled acts.

 

This

 

OP: I'm not sure if you know how a forum works but you're doing it wrong.

 

 

Ps- sorry you it's too difficult for you to idk NOT pvp? If you're getting face rolled, that's your own fault not Biowares. If your main focus is pvp the m getting 50 wouldnt be a problem. They have so many more issues that they are working on to care about one qq unsub. You fail

[GothicSaint]

I am not seeing it that way.

 

 

Rather I see it more along the lines of this:

• People become dissatisfied with the service and cancel
  
  
• Sub retrention drops
  
  
• BW investigates reason for the decline
  
  
• BW implements improvements to mitigate decline and attempt to regain loss subs (ie 'come back and see our changes' emails sent to old customers)
  
  

 

 

I disagree with the notion that people should just keep paying for a game they are not enjoying, in hopes that maybe BW will just guess at what needs to be improved and fix it.

 

 

There is a reason BW did not have these fixes in place, during development, so I have very little faith that they will change without some sort of factor to motivate a change.

 

Business doesn't tend to change the status quo, unless there is a financial motivator. A bad restaurant will not improve, unless it is losing money, for example.

 

That's a BIG Yeppers!!

 

I don't understand the " oh, just give me whatever you want , I'll keep coming back" crowd.

 

Hopefully Bio scans these forums (doubtful) and passes it on to proper authorities.

 

 

I havn't been this disappointed by an MMO like this one in a very long time (Darkfall, Mortal online)

 

As a solo game it is FUN!

 

As an MMO abysmal!!

 

I'm not a big fan of Single player games.

 

Catch my drift?!

[GothicSaint]

the one question is are these people writing this even 50 yet? if you are level 50 it really wouldnt matter what lvls are in your game if your lvl 12 go quest enjoy the world bioware made for us and do some pvp on the side and don't just sit on the fourms going "oh he hits harder then me nerf him, oh he heals more then me nerf him and btw if you dont im leaving"

 

So take **** until level 50?.

 

Great answer.

 

Life starts at 50?

 

I should be in my glory then

[Celebrus]

*removed* Edited January 17, 2012 by Celebrus

[Celebrus]

That's a BIG Yeppers!!

 

I don't understand the " oh, just give me whatever you want , I'll keep coming back" crowd.

 

Hopefully Bio scans these forums (doubtful) and passes it on to proper authorities.

 

Thats actually not it at all. Nobody is sitting here saying "give me whatever you want I'll keep coming back"

 

Actually, we're all hoping for improvements as well, the difference is we expected a lot of these problems, we took at least a small moment to ground ourselves in reality before the games release and say "Hey, this is a new MMO and everything that goes with being a new MMO will be present in this one, it's going to have problems, I shouldn't just expect everything to perfectly fall into place for me within 3 weeks of the game releasing."

 

I know, reality, foresight, very hard concepts to grasp upon, but some of us actually did it.

 

The difference between me and you is that despite having issues with the game, I'm not letting them completely dominate my life and force me to quit the game (which I still enjoy, despite the problems it has) and spend all of my free time gabbing it up on the forums with equally jaded and unconstructive quitters.

 

I'm still enjoying the game, despite it's drawbacks, which there are plenty of. I'm not sitting here asking for crap and happily eating away at it, because as I see it, it's not crap, and it's EXTREMELY fun. So yes, I will keep coming back, despite you being upset and angry at BW.

 

It's a great game. See you after the patch.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Celebrus

[Dezeit]

Oh I love these posts.

 

Is it unbalanced that sub-50's play against 50's - Yes

Will this be fixed - Yes

Is there the probability that the same number of 50's will be on your team as the opposing team - yes

 

Now lets look at a couple of facts. Those people play 50's in full expertise gear are most likely hardcore PVP's. Even if you had the same kit as them they are probably going to beat you. They could be running a top end system with a fat pipe, giving them the edge.

 

They can also be playing the same warzone every time that suits their class. There is no penalty for entering a warzone and then dropping out, to play a specific one that works better for your class. Hutt ball is an example of being better for one class over another.

 

Probability is they are playing as a team with other players on a vent server. Its probably not 1:1 thats taking you down, but 2 or 3 on you at the same time.

 

I personally like the challenge and joy of taking down a lvl 50. It can be done, it just takes some skill.

[Loekii]

I would agree with your statement, except that what many people are advocating on these forums is the equivalent of not going to the restaurant (because you dislike the service or the food) AND encouraging people to picket the restaurant AND taking out ads in the paper to bash it. They don't want to just leave the game because they're dissatisfied, they want to smear it and make Bioware pay some sort of imaginary penance.

 

This is why I'm as active as I am in threads like these. I really cannot stand the entitled, self-centered attitude of some posters, and I'll point it out every time.

 

Imo, I think a lot of it has to do to the internet not translating well, as well as projections onto the posts.

 

 

I do not think people are any more 'self-entitled' than a typical customer --- it just comes off that way in this media.

 

 

Also, the forums allow for a more open discussion. I am sure if restaurant forums were more common, you would see similar levels of description when discussing dissatisfaction.

 

 

For example, I can draw parallels between what BW has presented, to how I would evalute a contractor working on my house. I do not think that is 'self entitled', neither in the case about BW, nor about my house.

 

As a customer, expectations of a certain level of quality is normal, imo. And, imo, I do not see BW doing a superior job with TOR, removing it from customer criticism.

 

[Loekii]

 

the difference is we expected a lot of these problems, we took at least a small moment to ground ourselves in reality before the games release and say "Hey, this is a new MMO and everything that goes with being a new MMO will be present in this one, it's going to have problems,

 

 

The complaint is not that it is a new MMO with the typical issues, but rather that is a 2012 MMO, with 2007 problems.

 

 

Many of the issues have been better mitigated by OLDER mmorpgs, so the feeling is that BW should have done at least as good as the status quo -- having the benefit of that knowledge during development.

 

 

Expecting 2012 problems is acceptable.

 

Seeing 2007 problems is not.

 

 

We should be 'patient and understanding' to a plumber that uses known flawed materials and practices when installing a system into your house --- and certainly should not be 'happy' that he has come back to fix a mistake that should not have occurred in the first place.

 

Edited January 17, 2012 by Loekii

[phluke]

OP you are taking many things for granted that we know now that the devs didnt know prior to launch.

 

For example:

What if the game wasnt as successful as it is? You would have less of a pool to queue from.

 

How long will it take the general player and the hardcore players to hit cap? Basically how spread out will the pop be.

 

So, instead of chancing it they made one bracket for the first month, thats right this game has only been out for a month, less actually. And now they are making brackets because they all see what we see, good pops(on most servers) and a good number of 50's to pull from.

 

What if they would have made brackets that were 10 to 15 levels(i.e. 10 to 20 etc.) right off the bat? You would have been in here complaining about the long queue times... so bioware did the best they could given the info on hand at the time.

 

But you're right, you dont have to pay for a service you dont deem worth enough.

 

However all i hear from you is "my instant gratification isnt instant enough and i dont want to put in any effort/patience for my rewards." Good luck with that and....oh my queue popped I have to go weed out some lowbies before the patch.

Edited January 17, 2012 by phluke

[Evilsteps]

More QQ because juvenile egos can't take getting curb stomped by people who should smash them. I may not be the best at PvP, but crying like you were personally owed something is ridiculous. Just quit, get better at playing, or ****. There are many, many low level toons who may not dominate PvP, but they are competitive. Nobody cares about how many games you have lost, or how bad you have been rolled. Subs are joining faster than leaving, so see ya later and good luck with being a sensitive crybaby in future endeavors.

[richardya]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players......

 

What server are you on?

[mufutiz]

still nobody answered the golden question.

 

Why did SWTOR allow fully geared 50's premades to roflstomp entire groups of lowbies while no other relatively recent and at least partially successful MMORPG on the market has done the same? I mean for some reason it worked out for them....From Dark Age of Camelot to World of Warcraft. From Age of Conan to Warhammer online. From Aion to Rift. And so on and so on.

 

What's different with this game? Tighter server caps? Even more horrendous faction balance? Incompetence?

[Kelticfury]

Nah I will be gone.

 

I wonder just how many will quit.

 

I wonder how many of you saying good riddance will regret it if queue times jump massively due to a drop in population.

 

I hope those that said they will quit will be like me and stick to it. I think Bioware needs the kick up the behind to pull their finger out and realise that PvP is actually a massive part of the game and you can't just ignore it.

 

I think you over-estimate the number of crybaby quiters willing to drop the game because of stuff that is going to be fixed anyway.

[DNA_Cowboy]

Bioware showed utter contempt for their casual players by leaving out brackets at launch and then not putting them in for a month.

 

You showed a total disregard for your player base, opting to allow them to be farmed by level 50s in far superior gear while you sat on your hands and did nothing.

 

The excuse that there weren't enough level 50s was not good enough. You had other options, you could have disabled Expertise in PvP and told those at 50 it will be reinstated in a month along with brackets, but you didn't.

 

You did nothing.

 

This is why I will not resub.

 

The rest of the game, it can be fixed, eventually, should you get around to it.

 

Your attitude towards your paying customers is much harder to fix.

 

I will at least give you points for not using the words "Slap in the face."

 

Though I agree level disparity should have been handled differently early on, it wasn't. Not the end of the world, just--purportedly--the end of your sub. Or is it really

[mufutiz]

More QQ because juvenile egos can't take getting curb stomped by people who should smash them. I may not be the best at PvP, but crying like you were personally owed something is ridiculous. Just quit, get better at playing, or ****. There are many, many low level toons who may not dominate PvP, but they are competitive. Nobody cares about how many games you have lost, or how bad you have been rolled. Subs are joining faster than leaving, so see ya later and good luck with being a sensitive crybaby in future endeavors.

 

I really do wonder why people like you are so blatantly dense and ignorant. I might consider trolling but you guys seem to be genuinely serious.

 

Nobody expects to go against a 50 on a lowbie character and prevail.

 

What a lot of people are asking themselves is why Bioware allowed this when pretty much every other, remotely, big MMORPG on the market has shown them how it's done properly. It is a complete farce. There is no real way any person in an executive position should have looked at it and said: Yeah, that's a good idea!

 

But since that must have been the case (I am really hoping for an alternative explanation)...god have mercy on our souls.

Edited January 17, 2012 by mufutiz

[Kelticfury]

still nobody answered the golden question.

 

Why did SWTOR allow fully geared 50's premades to roflstomp entire groups of lowbies while no other relatively recent and at least partially successful MMORPG on the market has done the same? I mean for some reason it worked out for them....From Dark Age of Camelot to World of Warcraft. From Age of Conan to Warhammer online. From Aion to Rift. And so on and so on.

 

What's different with this game? Tighter server caps? Even more horrendous faction balance? Incompetence?

 

I love how you people who whine and moan about premades try and make it sound like every single time you pvp there is a premade of fully geared and max expertise 50s. Its no where near that bad. besides, half the enemy team is pug. quit making a mountain out of a dust speck and acting like you can't understand why no one else is all "waaa waa yeah yer right bro!11"

 

Going against a team that communicates is a tough fight period, wether they are 50s or not, get used to being out played or join a guild and use vent or whatever and quit expecting the developers to cater to the lowest common denominator, which is you.

[EternalFinality]

still nobody answered the golden question.

 

Why did SWTOR allow fully geared 50's premades to roflstomp entire groups of lowbies while no other relatively recent and at least partially successful MMORPG on the market has done the same? I mean for some reason it worked out for them....From Dark Age of Camelot to World of Warcraft. From Age of Conan to Warhammer online. From Aion to Rift. And so on and so on.

 

What's different with this game? Tighter server caps? Even more horrendous faction balance? Incompetence?

 

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.